Just getting rid of bloat. Now what?

[Bri374]

Baby Sammy has been with me since Tuesday morning. He did a full days hydration. He had been found by pest control in a chimney and then left outside over night for 14 hours, seeing if mom would return. I got him about 16 hours after last known interaction with mom. He did have diluted goats milk Wednesday, got PMR Pet Lac by Pet Ag Wednesday evening. Transitioned to that. All was well. Added heavy cream and vanilla yogurt, all seemed well.
Then yesterday evening, he started looking a little more plump. I finally got a proper scale and he is 23g...umbilical cord fell off yesterday (so maybe 10 days old?) Unfortunately, he usually is only willing to take 0.75 to 0.9cc q2h. Toileting before and after.
Got really big poops yesterday then smaller and smaller. Ate well throughout night and last feeding was at 930 am. After the 930 feeding I went to feed again at 1130 but milk line never went down. Tummy was on the tight side. Continued to get poop and pee all day, but only offered water after 930. It's now almost 6, after hot water baths and simethicone I am finally starting to see a normal belly. But, I can still see milk line.
So, can I do goats milk for the night to give his Tummy a break? Or do I need to go get Esbilac? Or start back with dilute Pet Lac. Poops look a little too creamy still, but he eats under recommended so I'm not sure what to do.

[CritterMom]

I would get the Esbilac POWDERED puppy formula and start with it more diluted - say 3 parts water 1 part powder, and if it is tolerated, slowly reduce the water in the formula until it is at 2 water/ 1 powder.

[Bri374]

Is it OK to feed him now even though he definitely still has a milk line and a full looking belly. I wasn't even sure if I should be giving him water?

[CritterMom]

No. I would soak him to the armpits in warm water and stroke downward on his tummy and try to stimulate more poop. When it starts to go down, do some hydration feedings before more formula.

[Bri374]

Just water or with honey, if so...how much?? No pedialyte, right? What do you think would be good dosing for baby simethicone? He had 0.1cc 2.5 hours ago. Been doing warm soaks all afternoon. He does NOT enjoy them. Still stimulating him, using olive oil to prevent further irritation to nethers.

[Bri374]

He is going on almost 10 hours without formula. He is still quite bloated. Did an estimate on the honey water, he took 0.5cc. Still getting pee, getting little poop. Even with continued water soaks. I have given 0.1cc simethicone at 4p. Is there ANYTHING more I can do??? Bloat can kill, and I want to ensure he has every possible chance!

[Bri374]

aby Sammy has been with me since Tuesday morning. He did a full days hydration. He had been found by pest control in a chimney and then left outside over night for 14 hours, seeing if mom would return. I got him about 16 hours after last known interaction with mom. He did have diluted goats milk Wednesday, got PMR Pet Lac by Pet Ag Wednesday evening. Transitioned to that. All was well. Added heavy cream and vanilla yogurt, all seemed well.
Then yesterday evening, he started looking a little more plump. I finally got a proper scale and he is 23g...umbilical cord fell off yesterday (so maybe 10 days old?) Unfortunately, he usually is only willing to take 0.75 to 0.9cc q2h. Toileting before and after.
Got really big poops yesterday then smaller and smaller. Ate well throughout night and last feeding was at 930 am. After the 930 feeding I went to feed again at 1130 but milk line never went down. Tummy was on the tight side. Continued to get poop and pee all day, but only offered water after 930. It's now almost 6, after hot water baths and simethicone I am finally starting to see a normal belly. But, I can still see milk line.
So, can I do goats milk for the night to give his Tummy a break? Or do I need to go get Esbilac? Or start back with dilute Pet Lac. Poops look a little too creamy still, but he eats under recommended so I'm not sure what to do.
He is going on almost 10 hours without formula. He is still quite bloated. Did an estimate on the honey water, he took 0.5cc. Still getting pee, getting little poop. Even with continued water soaks. I have given 0.1cc simethicone at 4p. Is there ANYTHING more I can do??? Bloat can kill, and I want to ensure he has every possible chance!

[Nancy in New York]

Can you post a picture of your little one's tummy?

[Rhapsody]

I would stop all feedings and soak in warm water a few times to relieve the bloat...... when you start feeding again I would hold the cream and yogurt, as they tend to upset the tummies of babies under 4 weeks of age... feed only Esbilac with Probiotics.

[Bri374]

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the first one is poop right before pictured belly. last one is day we first got him. Last tuesday.

[Bri374]

1st is poop right before tummy picture. last one is day we first got him on last tuesday.277651277652277653277654

[Bri374]

I have already been doing soaks all afternoon with limited relief gave honey water. Going to get esbilac now. have simethicone if needed, can i give it again?

[Bri374]

I feel completely defeated. Petsmart is closed due to labor day. I have Pet Lac and Goats milk on hand. IF the bloat goes down...what would be better to give him? How dilute!??! Please, I need help!

[redwuff]

Hi

UDoWhat and I have been talking about your baby. I know you are freaked, you've have been working hard with this baby and seems nothing is helping.

You said you gave .1ml simethicone ...is that all you've given of the gas x?

[Bri374]

Yes, that is all. He is so teeny, I'm hesitant to put ANYTHING else in him. Not sure about dosing or timing with it either. Have done several soaks and still going. Will be back home in 5 min to do another. It has now been 11 hours since he has had formula.

[CritterMom]

Oh that bloat is really bad.

We had problems with a formula we used to use - Fox Valley 32/40. Babies would not digest it - it stayed in their stomachs, milk lines didn't move, they would bloat and die and necropsy found that they had sludge in their tummies - almost like plaster. It was the protein source causing it and i think your formula is doing this.

I have copied and will paste what one of our best rehabbers put up regarding this issue and dealing with it:

The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).

[cava]

Oh that bloat is really bad.


The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).

You guys, she seems very concerned that baby hasn't had formula for 11 hours now. Can you address this to help put her mind at ease. Would it be fair to say at this point hydration and avoiding hypoglycemia are the most important things while she works on getting things moving?

If she does the above recommendation and it takes, say, another 8 hours for the poo to start moving, should she be slipping in a couple of drops of sugar water here and there?

I understand you can't feed a baby that's already filled up, but I also get her concern for it going so long without "food" of some sort.

[Bri374]

Oh gosh. I know it's bad. He looks bad. Can I give simethicone? I'll start pushing water. I take it as a good sign that he has continued to pee/ poop throughout all of this. Just a matter of continuing to move it out. It's gonna be a long night when work comes at 7am tomorrow. I just hope little Sammy is willing to try, because I am. Again, no esbilac available until tomorrow.

[cava]

Oh gosh. I know it's bad. He looks bad. Can I give simethicone? I'll start pushing water. I take it as a good sign that he has continued to pee/ poop throughout all of this. Just a matter of continuing to move it out. It's gonna be a long night when work comes at 7am tomorrow. I just hope little Sammy is willing to try, because I am. Again, no esbilac available until tomorrow.

Hang in there B! Put on a pot of coffee, snuggle up with him and get him watered. Thanks for caring and working so hard on him!:hug

[CritterMom]

Yes, I believe that slipping some sugar water to avoid hypoglycemia is a good idea, but not at every hydration. You just can't dump more food on top of that mess.

I like using a watercolor brush - one that is flat and about 3/4" wide is perfect but anything will do. Dampen the bristles and use it to stroke the stomach in a downward motion. The soft brush allows you to use a very tiny amount of pressure while you do this without hurting - you are trying to simulate mama's tongue. The damp bristles will drag a little on the body and provide some resistance. You are trying to stimulate the muscles in the colon that move food through, and you CAN do that manually. Hanging the baby in warm water allows their little muscles to relax and sometimes the combo will start the gas moving out. You MUST keep him warm throughout all of this f course.

Long night...

[Rhapsody]

I looked at the pics and he doesn't look all that bed to me...... I would give the little guy a break for 4 hours then feed him some goats milk, no cream or yogurt, and get some Esbilac with Probiotics ASAP tomorrow.

The poop should firm up once the goats milk is stopped and only the Esbilac is feed at 5% of the body weight. Good Luck.

[Bri374]

Working on watering now, then another soak. Then stimulation again. Then I'll give him a little break.

[Rhapsody]

Good Luck....... Prayers for you both. :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

While this was already written, I would just like to reiterate an important part.
This is the same procedure we recommend when a squirrel has possibly ingested something
that could be toxic. Get it out of their system.
Good luck with your little one, you are amazing! :Love_Icon



"plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly.

[Bri374]

Water done. Bath done. Continued to pee. But no poop this time, not really since the pic I put up. Will keep ya updated. Thank you all so much.

[Bri374]

Update: Still hanging on. He is still urinating...and I got one additional big poop from him. He's still taking water. He was starting to go limp and get twitchy..I added 2 drops of honey to water. Wet his lips, he took a few drops and came back around. Those twitches are scary. Still stimulating and hydrating, back to plain water. Let me know any additional tips, anything helps!

[cava]

Good eye and quick action with the honey water! I've been where you are with other species. It's an hour by hour thing, for sure. Keep up the good work :blowkiss

[Bri374]

Thank you all again!

Update: just got 2 soft, but formed poops and then a loose, sticky one.
Still getting plenty of urine, of course he's been on only water.
He just got another feeding of water only. I'm hoping if the next stimulation goes well, I can give him a little bit of dilute goats milk and try to get some sleep.
His belly is still round, but much, much softer!
Anyways, that's the plan! If I'm wrong, please correct me! I don't wanna hurt him!

[Bri374]

Last for tonight, Sammy's loose stool has continued. Looks like a yellow booger really.
A small amount. So, I'm thinking water has done it's job?
I mixed up some 3:1 water to evaporated goats milk. Hopefully, dilute enough to calm that belly without backing him up again!
Getting esbilac tomorrow, I just couldn't bear the thought of going all night with nothing.
He took 0.8cc, would've taken more but I restrained. Will see how he's doing at 6.

Warning to all Pet AGS Esbilac and Pet Lac are NOT the same!

[Bri374]

Sammy is doing well. He is having loose stool still. But he is hydrated, so I'm hopeful we are past the worst of it. He is still on the Goats milk 3:1 diluted until I get off work. Passing plenty of urine!

[farm mom]

Because he's had such a hard time with formula I would put him on Jackie's Goat formula. It's easily digested by these little guys and I have raised them from pinkies to 4 weeks on it with no ill effects at all. It's all I use on the littles. 3 parts Goats milk (I buy the pasturized at whole foods) 1 part full fat vanilla yogurt (Stonyfield makes it) and 1 part heavy whipping cream. So that would not be a big switchover for him. And I shake the goats milk real well and freeze in Ice cube trays then put it in a freezer bag. Then you just thaw what you need each day.

[UDoWhat]

Because he's had such a hard time with formula I would put him on Jackie's Goat formula. It's easily digested by these little guys and I have raised them from pinkies to 4 weeks on it with no ill effects at all. It's all I use on the littles. 3 parts Goats milk (I buy the pasturized at whole foods) 1 part full fat vanilla yogurt (Stonyfield makes it) and 1 part heavy whipping cream. So that would not be a big switchover for him. And I shake the goats milk real well and freeze in Ice cube trays then put it in a freezer bag. Then you just thaw what you need each day.

I completely agree. This little one needs to start getting some calories and nutrition now. I have used this formula for my little pinkies too. As they get older I transition them to Esbilac. I do add a bit of cream and full fat vanilla yogurt if I feel they need it as they get older too. BUT every addition is done slowly, with documentation and no guess work. :squirrel2

[redwuff]

How is your baby doing?

[Bri374]

Sammy is doing well today and yesterday.
Yesterday I gave only goats milk, evaporated and reconstituted with equal parts water. Today we have been doing 1/2 the goats milk with 3:1 Esbilac.
I was working towards getting him to full esbilac.

My hesitation is that others said the heavy cream could've been what caused all the back up.
I have ordered the Ultraboost. So, I was going to ask how I should best use that.
My plan was to mix it with the full esbilac.
I'm open and willing to change the plan.


On my last 3 squirrels I used fox valley line all the way through, but that was about 2-4 years ago. So, I'm new to Esbilac.