Turkeys!!!! Dieing!

[NaturesGift]

my turkeys have blackhead. I have lost 2 so far and one is near death.. 4 anre following closly and the other ones appear to be ok but who knows!

I was told by poultry experts to feed them yogurt and cayenne from the time they hatched. and I have. But apparently its not working. I change there cage constantly and I tought they were dong good.

I was sooo wrong! yesterday afternoon as horrible ... the signs started happening then ......they get this transfixed look in there eyes then they start throwing there head in weird directions .... they act cold...limp and lifeless . then they start to flail and die.

upon more research I found there is a medicine to treat this called Emetryl
but none of my vets have it or can get there hands on it. No feed stores have iut either. I guess thats why they told me to treat it with Cayenne on the poultry boards.

I have been up all night every two hours tubing the 4 sick and the one that is on deaths door .. I have been tubing them yogurt and pedialite with cayenne and probios.

this disease is sicking! it causes them to have liver failure.

"This disease affects the large intestine, then attacks the liver
The chooks bowl is eaten by the parasite and then it attacks the liver
When the chooks die their heads go black, hence the name"

"Symptoms
Birds develop foamy yellow diarrhoea and sit huddled up
They appear depressed and ill
They stop eating and get very thin
Increased thirst
Droopiness
Drowsiness
Darkening of the facial region
The birds can be so ill, that their wattle and comb goes blue (thus the name blackhead)
If not treated the birds usually die
Any sulphur coloured foamy droppings should be considered as blackhead, even if the bird is not showing any other signs of the disease
Blackhead acts as an immune suppressor, which will allow other diseases to have greater effect on your bird’s health
It may cause stunted growth, poor feed utilization and then death"


I don know what to do!

I have the four that I think have black head (the thing on the top of there head is balck) in a seporate spot and I am tubing them the pedialite cayenne probiois mixtures (about 1 cc) and about a cc of yogurt.

The one that is in critical condition has lived the longest so far Im not sure if its becauseI am tubing him.. Last night he started to throw the food back up. but right now he seems to be holding it well I was sure he would be gone.

I need that medicine but I cant have it :'(

[Alaskan Squirrel Cam]

You know, they use an Arsenic Pill for baby chicks...you can get it at the feed stores to put in their water...check with your vet and see if this will help with the turkeys. I used it when I raised Chickens and Turkeys...

It might just do the job, if it isn't to late.

bob

[NaturesGift]

I will call my vet and fed store. .... they are most likly going to rol there eyes and be like ..its her again!

o btw these turkeys are about a week old and they are wild. :)

[NaturesGift]

my feed stores do not carry Arsenic pill and my vets dont/wont treat birds...
ok I am willing to try crazy things.. any Ideas... My dad has a walnut tinkture (sp) Its for worms and parisities..what do you think? would the alchohol hurt them?

[TexanSquirrel]

:dono Good luck!!!!!!!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I am so sorry to hear they aren't doing good. I have no idea on what could help a wild turkey, or any birds for that matter. I hope you find something though, and quick!

[Critter_Queen]

Oh, NG, I'm so sorry! I don't know how to help with that at all. How the heck do people raise turkies?!?!?

If it's parasitic in nature is there a bird wormer you could try???? I've had my indoor pet birds wormed before, so I know it's out there, I just don't know what it is or how to dose it.

I wish I could help you!!! :grouphug

I would immediately separate the sick from the healthy, though, and remove the chicks as soon as they show ANY sign of the parasite.

[Buddy'sMom]

A search for Emetryl (which is banned in the UK; don't know about here) turned up this (UK) site, which suggests

"or use Hepzide, Enhaptin –always follow vet advice & read label recommendations before giving any medication.
You can only get it these from a veterinarian"

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651

Don't know if either of those would be available from your vet.

:grouphug :grouphug

[NaturesGift]

A search for Emetryl (which is banned in the UK; don't know about here) turned up this (UK) site, which suggests

"or use Hepzide, Enhaptin –always follow vet advice & read label recommendations before giving any medication.
You can only get it these from a veterinarian"

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651

Don't know if either of those would be available from your vet.

:grouphug :grouphug


I have been trying to get my hands on these meds since yesterday but no vet or animal place carries it. or else I would have used it on my first 5 turkies a couple weeks ago.

critter queen I have been seporating them ... I have the one whcih is now soon to pass and then the four which I think have it (there things on there head are black)I am watching there stools very closely ..then I have the remander away from them and I am watching them close to!

ok I am going to get some form of a wormer.

[Critter_Queen]

http://www.nwtf.org/conservation/bulletins/No26-Parasites_Bulletin.pdf

I don't know if a wormer will do it, but it looks like it's a worm doing it! This is a GRAPHIC PAGE...NOT FOR THOSE WITH A WEAK STOMACH!!!!!!!

[NaturesGift]

http://www.nwtf.org/conservation/bulletins/No26-Parasites_Bulletin.pdf

I don't know if a wormer will do it, but it looks like it's a worm doing it! This is a GRAPHIC PAGE...NOT FOR THOSE WITH A WEAK STOMACH!!!!!!!


It wont let me veiw it! I dont have a week stomach..is it about black head?


Update. . . . The sick one I have been fighting with to live just passed. I hate this death its sooo disheartning and disgusting. The saddest part is I thought she was going to pull through b/c her stool went back to normal.

I think the reason I was told to use cayenne and yogurt was because Emetryl is not available here. My parents are going to the next county over to try and get me some good wormer ... even though as critter queen has stated it may not work . :hissyfit :sad

please everyone .... pray for my turkeys. make it your plee for help to! if anybody has access to a drug called emetryl please get it for me.

I feel like I did them harm in hatching them. only to have them die anyways. my dream was to release them,.... why is this happening. I kept there area so clean... I started them on a clean page..a new cage ..good food cayenne everyday and yogurt to. I would give my all to these babies. but I feel like my hands are tied.

[Squerly]

Ah jeeze, doesn't somebody know where she can get some of this emetryl?

[pamela lee]

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug I've already called my feed store and my vet, they both said they don't have it and they don't know anyone that does. My feed store currently has a whole bunch of turkeys so why wouldn't they carry it. I'll go try the feed store in the next town. You hang in there sweety. I'll be right back.

[Critter_Queen]

I dunno if this will work or not, but I'm going to try to post what's on the pdf file...it said it let me *copy* it, so hopefully this will work.

Imorportant info in BLUE

Wild turkeys are hosts to many different internal parasites. Animals that live within their host and feed off of it or utilize their host as habitat are considered internal parasites (endoparasites). Other parasites, such as ticks, lice, and mosquitoes are called external parasites (ectoparasites). While most wild turkeys are host to some internal parasites, the impact of these parasites is usually minimal. Negative impacts to individual wild turkeys are only noticed at high parasite loads, and even then population level impacts are generally low.

Life Cycles
Two common life cycles exist for most internal parasites (Figure 1). The first is the direct life cycle. Adult parasites in a wild turkey lay eggs that are shed from the bird in its droppings. The eggs develop into juveniles that are incidentally ingested by feeding wild turkeys. The juveniles develop into adults in the area of the wild turkey’s body they are best suited for. The indirect life cycle is more complex. Eggs or juveniles are passed out of a wild turkey, but if eaten by another wild turkey they will not develop into adults. An invertebrate such as an insect or a snail (called an intermediate host) must first eat the eggs or juveniles, where they develop into an infective or third-stage juvenile. Once the intermediate host is eaten by a wild turkey the parasite matures into an adult and the cycle is completed.

Types of Internal Parasites
Protozoans are responsible for a number of conditions in wild turkeys, most importantly the disease histomoniasis, also known as blackhead disease. This disease is described in NWTF Wildlife Bulletin No. 25, Blackhead Disease. Protozoans are usually obtained through other parasite sources such as the environment (drinking water), insects (mosquitoes), or parasites (roundworms). Nematodes, or parasitic roundworms, are found in various locations including the heart, lungs, and trachea, but are most common in the gastrointestinal tract. Nearly seventy species of nematodes have been reported in wild and domestic turkeys. While most nematodes do not cause significant harm to adult wild turkeys, several can have serious negative impacts including the species Heterakis gallinarum, which transmits the disease Tapeworms live in many animals including wild turkeys, which generally obtain the Cestodes as poults.

Jared McJunkin. blackhead. While rare, the most common effects of nematode infections include unsuccessful hatching, reduced reproduction, and mortality in young birds. Trematodes are parasitic flatworms found in various organs including the liver, intestines, eyes, and kidneys. These ‘flukes’ as they are sometimes called do not appear to cause clinical illness in wild turkeys. Wild turkeys obtain flukes by eating snails, the required first host.

Cestodes or ‘tapeworms’ also infect wild turkeys. Adults live in the intestines and only rarely significantly affect nutrient absorption or the overall health of their host. Poults generally aquire tapeworms at an early stage when they ingest larvae found in the intermediate hosts that include ants and beetles.

Acanthocephalans are spiny-headed worms that occur very infrequently in wild turkeys and are not considered a threat.

Potential Negative Effects Internal parasites can harm wild turkeys in several ways. First, tissue damage can be caused by the parasite penetrating into organs, especially the liver, intestine, gizzard, and reproductive organs. Secondary infections by bacteria or viruses at the site of tissue damage are also possible. Some parasites feed directly on the tissue or blood of their host, thus weakening the animal. Reproductive success can be decreased by the presence of parasites in reproductive organs. Mechanical damage or blockage caused by parasites can prohibit fertilization. ***Eggs layed by infected turkeys may already contain bacteria and viruses that have a negative effect on hatching success. Wild turkey hens with heavy parasite loads may also be less attentive of their nests.

What can managers do? There is little that wildlife managers can do to prevent or treat internal parasite infections in wild turkeys. Managers can only attempt to improve habitat such that birds are in better condition and less susceptible to the effects of parasitism. However, gathering baseline data on parasite loads in healthy populations is useful. If populations begin to decline in the future their parasite loads can be compared to past levels to determine if parasites are part of the problem. Without baseline data it is more difficult to Nematodes are common internal parasites of wild turkeys, but rarely cause the birds serious harm.

Dave Oates

Angie Fox diagnose a parasite-related problem. Internal parasites are difficult to detect without examining organs from dead birds, as there is usually no outward sign of their presence. Monitoring parasites in harvested birds being used for other studies (e.g., food habits) would require additional effort but might be beneficial.

Eating Infected Birds
Most wild turkeys harvested by hunters will have at least some internal parasites. Most often the parasites inhabit the organs and will be discarded during cleaning without even being detected. Humans should not be worried about parasites in properly cooked birds, as potential parasites should be killed. Even if eaten, most of the parasites are host specific or at least require a bird as their host. Flukes or trematodes are obtained by eating snails. These parasitic flatworms don’t appear to cause clinical illness in wild turkeys. Spiny-headed worms occur only rarely in wild turkeys.

Jared McJunkin
Jared McJunkin Jared McJunkin

[pamela lee]

No Luck, but I found a guy online that talks about the ceyanne pepper treatment, so maybe you could call him I don't know how to put a website link on here so I have to write it out.
He's at McGill University Phone 1-514-398-7771 or email, info@eap.mcgill.ca
Website eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/efa/efa_e941.htm
I hope this can help I'll be praying

[NaturesGift]

No Luck, but I found a guy online that talks about the ceyanne pepper treatment, so maybe you could call him I don't know how to put a website link on here so I have to write it out.
He's at McGill University Phone 1-514-398-7771 or email, info@eap.mcgill.ca
Website eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/efa/efa_e941.htm
I hope this can help I'll be praying


Im calling him ..Thank you so much pamela lee!


Thaks you critter queen for posting the page I will be right back to read it .:)

[Critter_Queen]

Whoever edited my messed up post, thanks, but I edited it before you did, because some of the information was out of place.

Example:


"several can have serious negative impacts including the species Heterakis gallinarum, which transmits the disease blackhead. While rare, the most common effects of nematode infections include unsuccessful hatching, reduced reproduction, and mortality in young birds.

[NaturesGift]

o boy this is bad! I have been giving them cayenne since they hatched! I put it in there food and water. I read the website pamela lee gave me and I have been doing this.. :dono

[island rehabber]

NG -- pamela just advised me to tell you to call the Mississippi State College of Veterinary Medicine....there is a poultry expert there who can help -- she's looking up the number.

[NaturesGift]

ok thanks Island rehabber!

[island rehabber]

Okay NG -- here's the link, again from pam & Dr John:

http://www.cvm.msstate.edu/depts/ppm.html

[pamela lee]

I'm going now, sounds like you're in excellent hands. Good Luck and I'll still be praying for your babies. Just breath, It'll be alright. God Bless you and the babies.
Pamela Lee

[NaturesGift]

I'm going now, sounds like you're in excellent hands. Good Luck and I'll still be praying for your babies. Just breath, It'll be alright. God Bless you and the babies.
Pamela Lee

breathing. I got an answering machine (man I hate them things) they make me so nervous..though I am not sure why.. I left him a message ..I will be waiting for a phone call back :)

Thank you so much for all of your help pamela. :)

[Critter_Queen]

I'm praying for your little ones, NG. If anyone can help them you can... You've done everything possible to help them to survive. :grouphug

[Critter_Queen]

I LOVE invisible administrators! :bowdown

[NaturesGift]

thanks critter queen.

I have to go to work right now so I am giving them one last tubing of yogurt and pedialite probios and cayenne (I am tubing them b/c it says they stop eating so I want to be sure it gets in them ..)

My sister is going to peak in on them and then when my mom gets home she will watch them .. I will be home in 2 1/2 hours (its the quickest I can milk 75 cows :) )

talk ot you all then and thank you all for your support and prayers. :)

one last thought... should I add some kaytee to my tubing formula?

[LynninIN]

Acidified copper sulfate is readily available and used to treat blackhead (Histomonas meleagridis). Metronidazole is very effective but harder to find.

[NaturesGift]

Acidified copper sulfate is readily available and used to treat blackhead (Histomonas meleagridis). Metronidazole is very effective but harder to find.


ok I am home now :) I had a weird run in with a coon so it took me a lil while ot get here.

The guy from the mississippi college called and he said USA no longer sells the emetryl. He said to try some sulfa stuff (my dad has the name written down on paper) SO I should get it tomorrow.

I will also look for the acidified copper sulfate thank you so much lynnin


As an update none of the four turkeys are showing critical signs they just have the balck head thing so I will continue my tubing.

anyone have an answer to me adding kaytee to the tubing mixture?

[skwerls_R_soft]

Acidified copper sulfate is readily available and used to treat blackhead (Histomonas meleagridis). Metronidazole is very effective but harder to find.


Metronidazole is branded as "Flagyl". The vet I used to work for prescribed it and we had it on hand. Maybe follow up with another local vet to see if they will sell you some.

Good luck!!

[NaturesGift]

Metronidazole is branded as "Flagyl". The vet I used to work for prescribed it and we had it on hand. Maybe follow up with another local vet to see if they will sell you some.

Good luck!!


thank you.. I will call every vet again tomorrow. I pray they can help me :)


anybody know if I should start adding kaytee to my tubing mixture (as a source of food since they starve themselves ?)

[Apple Corps]

Several treatments - scroll down this linked article - sounds as if some may be available - good luck and so sorry to hear about your lil birds :-(

http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/qa/poultry0002.htm

[pamela lee]

Mornin' Mandie, How are your baby turkeys today? I have no idea what Kaytee is so I'm no help. I wish I could be of more help, but all I can offer is prayer and support. You know your doing the very best you can and that's all you can expect of yourself.
Pamela Lee

[Gabe]

Mandie, what are you tubing them with?
I would use the FoNS diet for now, that is the same one you used for the starlings. Add a little yogurt to it. Sorry to get on here and read about your turkeys. Hope you find the meds you need.

[NaturesGift]

ok all is calm here.


ok Gabe this is what I am tubing them. Due to black head causing there appetite to decline they dont eat with the same gusto they should and I was told ot keep putting Cayenne and yogurt in them. (the cayenne fights the bacteria/worms and the yogurt helps heal ) SO far this is the longest I have had them go b4 they start getting this transfixed look in there eyes.. then they normally progress to flailing around. (wings and feet and neck) there head starts staying in an almost backwards postion and then they sometimes go int a coma type state and die. Its gruesome.

But I dont want to get my hopes up but I think tubing them helps...

I am tubing them 1 cc of pedialite with cayenne and probios and a cc of yogurt with live cultures. about every 2 hours. I thought adding a bit af kaytee would add osme food content.

I dont think I can get the dog food down to a watery enough state to be able to pass through my tubing. It is very thin.

I am getting off and restarting my vet calls. I will let you know what they tell me. :)


Thanks Gammas and Gabe yor the bestest friendsI could ask for! :)


APPLE corps I read the link (the black head part ) and I copied all the med names down and I will ask the vet about those to :) thank you

Thanks you pamela for your prayers and for sticking right here with me

This is the first forum I actually feel compelled to come to everyday.Its like one big family. because we are all joined together with one common thing LOVE. I just want to thank everyone on this forum for helping me:)

[NaturesGift]

o boy no vets here carry any of those drugs.. then they askk what is it for? I say turkeys and they say we dont specialize in turkeys no ine in this area does.

But good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Jumping for joy!

I had an enlightning momment! How about the hatchery I bought my bronze babies and all my chickens from.. so I looked up there website and sure enough WELLA !!!!!!!!!!!

they have the Acidified Copper Sulfate I am ordering some as I type!!!!!!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

That is great news!

[NaturesGift]

o ok still working on ordering. The wewebsite is having some glitch! I am trying to order these medsand when I go to check out it tells me thet one female of this species of bird doesnt weigh enough And that there is a required weight for shipping live birds.Um k! SO I called them and I guess it wasnt the same meds as I needed BUT they have two other meds for Turkeys with blackhead. ! its only $27 !!!! so I just gotta get my dad to get the call and order since its his card !

As an exiting side note 3 out of the four turkeys that had the "blackhead" on ther head have gone back to normal heads!!!!!!! I stil want to treat them and have extra stuff on hand just in case. :) I am soo happy !!! I am still keeping them seporate till afterI treat all of the turks !!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought they would all die.. I am soo relieved.

[Critter_Queen]

YAY!!!!! :wahoo :wahoo :wott :wott ~waving my hands in the air~

:D

I'm glad to hear that your chicks are improving!!! :thumbsup

[pamela lee]

Yeah, I've been gone all day and just got on here to check on the little guys. I'm so thrilled to hear some good news. I'll keep hoping and praying the babies keep improving. You're doing a great job NaturesGift. Hope you get the meds soon.
Pamela

[NaturesGift]

thank you both!!! ok her is pics.

this is the "waddle" *I think* of a healthy turkey (the circle dot thing close to her beak
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/SIMG0049-1.jpg
notice its peachy pink?

well here is my last baby with a black head Its starting to clear and the photos fuzzy b/c she wouldnt hold still!
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/SIMG0051-2.jpg

:jump so happy but not getting my hopes up.

[Gabe]

I'm glad they are getting better. You do not literally have to tube a small turkey. Just use a 1cc syringe and slide it to the back of the throat. Gently push the plunger watching the crop so as not to overfill. I would definatley pulverize some high protein puppy chow or use the diet you were using with the starlings. They need some calories and engery.
I can tube/syringe very easily with the FoNs diet.

[Secret Squirrel]

Blessings to you and the kidz....blessings to your family for supporting you in this sad....but rewarding time. Thank your family and your dad :thumbsup .....for him helping order the meds with his card. Thanks Dad and belated "Happy Father's Day" from a member of TSB.:thankyou I am hoping for full recovery of the turkey babes.:grouphug

[NaturesGift]

Blessings to you and the kidz....blessings to your family for supporting you in this sad....but rewarding time. Thank your family and your dad :thumbsup .....for him helping order the meds with his card. Thanks Dad and belated "Happy Father's Day" from a member of TSB.:thankyou I am hoping for full recovery of the turkey babes.:grouphug


thank you secret squirrel I wil pass the message on to my dad and family!

*hugs* back

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup Glad you're seeing a turn-around and finally got some meds on the way! :grouphug :grouphug