Refusing to eat

[breannahope]

I saved 3 baby squirrels about 8 weeks old a week ago. Hydrated with pedialyte then started Esbilac. Also using a heating pad for them still.
I ordered Fox valley nutrition 20/50 to switch them to from what I have read. This is correct right?
For their age, they are eating about 5mL from insulin syringes. Does this seem accurate?
Also, to start their calcium intake, what "treats" should I be introducing? I ordered some 'Peanut Stix' from Henrys Pets. But if theres anything local that I can go by as well? They are getting Esbilac about 4-5 times a day. Roughly every 4 hours from the time I get up until I go to bed.
When should I introduce water?
Two of them are very active, and one not so much. He eats well but not as spunky or active like others. Just sits by himself or finds something to curl up under neath and keep sleep. I can add pics to this thread.
I know this is a lot of question so sorry! Just want to be sure Im on the right track :)

[breannahope]

first image on the pink rag is the little guy who's not so active.

[ALittleNutty]

I saved 3 baby squirrels about 8 weeks old a week ago. Hydrated with pedialyte then started Esbilac. Also using a heating pad for them still.
I ordered Fox valley nutrition 20/50 to switch them to from what I have read. This is correct right?
For their age, they are eating about 5mL from insulin syringes. Does this seem accurate?
Also, to start their calcium intake, what "treats" should I be introducing? I ordered some 'Peanut Stix' from Henrys Pets. But if theres anything local that I can go by as well? They are getting Esbilac about 4-5 times a day. Roughly every 4 hours from the time I get up until I go to bed.
When should I introduce water?
Two of them are very active, and one not so much. He eats well but not as spunky or active like others. Just sits by himself or finds something to curl up under neath and keep sleep. I can add pics to this thread.
I know this is a lot of question so sorry! Just want to be sure Im on the right track :)

Thanks for saving these little ones. By looking at the pics these babies are closer to 6 weeks than 8 weeks.
What are their weights? We can judge formula intake better with weights.
I wouldn't worry about water right now as they should be getting enough fluid via formula and you want them to take that as long as possible.
No treats right now but you should start them on Henry's Healthy Blocks. They will waste them at first so cut them up smaller until they actually start eating them. Once they are eating those consistently you will gradually start introducing leafy greens and healthy veggies while continuing formula and blocks. This is just like teaching a baby to eat the right foods, you don't start with candy if you want them to eat veggies, lol! No nuts, peanut sticks or anything like that until you establish good habits. After that an occasional treat is okay.
Esbilac is great and when you get the FV in you can actually mix the two. I had great success last year with a 50/50 ratio.
Not sure about the little one but they all have different personalities and some are just more laid back. I would just keep a close watch and see if he shows any other signs that it might be something else.

[breannahope]

Thanks for saving these little ones. By looking at the pics these babies are closer to 6 weeks than 8 weeks.
What are their weights? We can judge formula intake better with weights.
I wouldn't worry about water right now as they should be getting enough fluid via formula and you want them to take that as long as possible.
No treats right now but you should start them on Henry's Healthy Blocks. They will waste them at first so cut them up smaller until they actually start eating them. Once they are eating those consistently you will gradually start introducing leafy greens and healthy veggies while continuing formula and blocks. This is just like teaching a baby to eat the right foods, you don't start with candy if you want them to eat veggies, lol! No nuts, peanut sticks or anything like that until you establish good habits. After that an occasional treat is okay.
Esbilac is great and when you get the FV in you can actually mix the two. I had great success last year with a 50/50 ratio.
Not sure about the little one but they all have different personalities and some are just more laid back. I would just keep a close watch and see if he shows any other signs that it might be something else.






Which one of these should I get?276816

Also, I am not sure of their weights :/

[ALittleNutty]

Which one of these should I get?276816

Also, I am not sure of their weights :/

Either the first one or the last one would be good.

Weights are essential to making sure how much to feed. They should be getting a minimum of 5% of their body weight. You need a scale that weighs in grams and you can usually find a fairly cheap one at Wal-Mart or online.

[stepnstone]

I saved 3 baby squirrels about 8 weeks old a week ago. Hydrated with pedialyte then started Esbilac. Also using a heating pad for them still.
I ordered Fox valley nutrition 20/50 to switch them to from what I have read. This is correct right?
For their age, they are eating about 5mL from insulin syringes. Does this seem accurate?
Also, to start their calcium intake, what "treats" should I be introducing? I ordered some 'Peanut Stix' from Henrys Pets. But if theres anything local that I can go by as well? They are getting Esbilac about 4-5 times a day. Roughly every 4 hours from the time I get up until I go to bed.
When should I introduce water?
Two of them are very active, and one not so much. He eats well but not as spunky or active like others. Just sits by himself or finds something to curl up under neath and keep sleep. I can add pics to this thread.
I know this is a lot of question so sorry! Just want to be sure Im on the right track :)

These babies are underweight and definitely should be taking more then 5cc's per feeding. I would also be offering them hydration
in-between feedings. You need weights on each one to know how much to properly be feeding. A squirrel should be fed between
5-7% of it's body weight, you need a scale that weighs in grams. A kitchen/food scale can be purchased inexpensively at places like
Walmart & Bed Bath and Beyond. Having a scale to know their weights is absolutely essential!
Besides their formula, the first and only solid food that should be introduced is a good quality rodent block such as Henry's hhb's.
They will need to be eating the block and eating it well before introducing other foods. The next foods should be healthy vegetables,
nuts and fruit are only to be given as treats to captive squirrels. Definitely give them access to water.
I'm listing the forum for the healthy diet, click on picture to enlarge. Also listing the site for Henry's.
Please get a scale to weigh these babies!

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels
http://www.henryspets.com/

[breannahope]

These babies are underweight and definitely should be taking more then 5cc's per feeding. I would also be offering them hydration
in-between feedings. You need weights on each one to know how much to properly be feeding. A squirrel should be fed between
5-7% of it's body weight, you need a scale that weighs in grams. A kitchen/food scale can be purchased inexpensively at places like
Walmart & Bed Bath and Beyond. Having a scale to know their weights is absolutely essential!
Besides their formula, the first and only solid food that should be introduced is a good quality rodent block such as Henry's hhb's.
They will need to be eating the block and eating it well before introducing other foods. The next foods should be healthy vegetables,
nuts and fruit are only to be given as treats to captive squirrels. Definitely give them access to water.
I'm listing the forum for the healthy diet, click on picture to enlarge. Also listing the site for Henry's.
Please get a scale to weigh these babies!

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels
http://www.henryspets.com/

Ill get a scale tonight for sure :)
At about 5ccs they start slowing down, one may stop eating or their tummies get bloated looking. So I was scared to keep feeding since bloating is such an issue with them as from what I am reading throughout this forum. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[breannahope]

Also, does what kind of water you use to mix the formula make a difference?

[ALittleNutty]

Ill get a scale tonight for sure :)
At about 5ccs they start slowing down, one may stop eating or their tummies get bloated looking. So I was scared to keep feeding since bloating is such an issue with them as from what I am reading throughout this forum. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

There is a big difference from being full and being bloated. Full is firm, but not hard, sort of like a balloon. Full tummies tend to stretch to the sides but a bloated baby usually rounds out to the front like a beer gut and is hard and tight.

Oh some I have had in the past like to be stimulated to potty mid feeding before they will take more.

[breannahope]

There is a big difference from being full and being bloated. Full is firm, but not hard, sort of like a balloon. Full tummies tend to stretch to the sides but a bloated baby usually rounds out to the front like a beer gut and is hard and tight.

Oh some I have had in the past like to be stimulated to potty mid feeding before they will take more.

ok its definitely more like a "full" tummy! They have no problem peeing and popping on their own. I stimulated for few days when I first got them and now they all pee and poop everywhere. Should I continue stimulating or let them do it themselves since they have no problem?

[ALittleNutty]

ok its definitely more like a "full" tummy! They have no problem peeing and popping on their own. I stimulated for few days when I first got them and now they all pee and poop everywhere. Should I continue stimulating or let them do it themselves since they have no problem?

Yeah it's amazing how full those tummies can get. I'd still try stimulating halfway through feeding to encourage them to eat a little more. Sometimes it helps.

[breannahope]

Have 3 6-7 week old squirrels. Have had them for like a week now. They have been eating fine (not as much as they should about 5mL) So today bumped it up. At 4:00 they had 9mL and now at 845/9:00 they are refusing to eat. They barely had interest in 1mL and just want to sleep. (2 of the squirrels) The other squirrel did get 10 mL, Yay! However, I am a little concerned they aren't interested in eating.. its just not like them!! Is it normal for this to sometimes happen? I am going to try again to offer after I shower.

[redwuff]

Please keep all information in one thread.

Why would you go from 5 ccs to 9 cc's in the next feeding? Did you get a scale to weigh those babies. A baby that weighs 180g would be fed 9 ccs. You are feeding too much. There is a chance they are about to break out in diarrhea because of being over fed. I would only offer pedialyte for the next feeding.

[Rocky1]

Have they been going to the bathroom, so to say?

[breannahope]

Please keep all information in one thread.

Why would you go from 5 ccs to 9 cc's in the next feeding? Did you get a scale to weigh those babies. A baby that weighs 180g would be fed 9 ccs. You are feeding too much. There is a chance they are about to break out in diarrhea because of being over fed. I would only offer pedialyte for the next feeding.


Typo. Wouldn't let me edit. 8ccs. Since they weren't eating enough before everyone said they needed more so I let them continue to eat since they were acting starving this afternoon but obviously I was monitoring. Did just a little bit of pedialyte and put them back to bed.

[breannahope]

Have they been going to the bathroom, so to say?



Yes using the bathroom normally :)

[Spanky]

I am going to merge the other, older thread into this thread so all the information is together (makes it much easier for those trying to help to have it all in the same thread!)

[redwuff]

what are their weights

[breannahope]

what are their weights

Female- 84 g
Male #1- 78 g
Male #2- 84 g

[Spanky]

Female- 84 g
Male #1- 78 g
Male #2- 84 g

So the 84gram babies should get between 5% and 7% of their weight, so at least 4.2ml but not more than 5.88ml each feeding.

The 78gram baby should get at least 3.9ml but no more than 5.46ml each feeding.

This is a "rule of thumb" and they may take more later on, but for now it is important to get them stabilized and heading in the right direction. I would not let them go more than 6 hours overnight for a few nights until they are on a better track. Getting more feedings into them by not having a long overnight period (remember, with mom in a nest they have an all nigh buffet if they want / need it!). Were it me I would use a schedule like 6AM, 10:30AM, 3PM, 7:30PM and Midnight) for the next 5 - 7 days. And water in between during the day until there are not more signs of dehydration.

[breannahope]

So the 84gram babies should get between 5% and 7% of their weight, so at least 4.2ml but not more than 5.88ml each feeding.

The 78gram baby should get at least 3.9ml but no more than 5.46ml each feeding.

This is a "rule of thumb" and they may take more later on, but for now it is important to get them stabilized and heading in the right direction. I would not let them go more than 6 hours overnight for a few nights until they are on a better track. Getting more feedings into them by not having a long overnight period (remember, with mom in a nest they have an all nigh buffet if they want / need it!). Were it me I would use a schedule like 6AM, 10:30AM, 3PM, 7:30PM and Midnight) for the next 5 - 7 days. And water in between during the day until there are not more signs of dehydration.

Great, I will do that. Thank you so much for your guidance. somsone told me I was under feeding and I panicked. When giving water, give it in the syringe right? Or do pedialyte for hydration?

[breannahope]

So the 84gram babies should get between 5% and 7% of their weight, so at least 4.2ml but not more than 5.88ml each feeding.

The 78gram baby should get at least 3.9ml but no more than 5.46ml each feeding.

This is a "rule of thumb" and they may take more later on, but for now it is important to get them stabilized and heading in the right direction. I would not let them go more than 6 hours overnight for a few nights until they are on a better track. Getting more feedings into them by not having a long overnight period (remember, with mom in a nest they have an all nigh buffet if they want / need it!). Were it me I would use a schedule like 6AM, 10:30AM, 3PM, 7:30PM and Midnight) for the next 5 - 7 days. And water in between during the day until there are not more signs of dehydration.



Also, tap water? Distilled? Spring?

[Spanky]

I would use plain water at this point for hydration, unless they have diarrhea (then I would use the pedialyte). if they don't want the plain water, add a bit of honey or molasses to make it a tinge sweet. Yes, the water should be given with a syringe and nipple.

Tap water is fine if your source is a good, otherwise Spring water but not distilled (and never use distilled water to mix formula).

[redwuff]

Breanna,

You actually were not far off when you were feeding 5cc. Getting weights on them is so vital. Thanks for getting a scale. Weigh each day at same stage. I weigh before feeding in the morning.

Whenever changing formulas or amounts of food, do it gradually. The questions you are asking are perfect. There is a scrunch of stuff to know to get these babies back to the trees.

Trysh

[breannahope]

Babies are gaining weight!!
Male #1 is now 115 grams.
I forgot to weight the other two. Will have to do that before next feeding. Is male #1 gaining like he should? I feel 74 to 115 is a big jump lol

[Spanky]

Weighing them every day is extremely important and can sometimes signal issues before they are "observed". They should be gaining several grams every day. If they do not gain over the course of a day, there is a problem or things need to be adjusted.

Male #1 was 78grams according to the post on 8/19 and today is 115 grams.

For comparison, a 4 week old squirrel arrived here on 8/20 weighing 68grams and this morning was 134grams. I know Florida squirrels are a little smaller, but I feel like they should be gaining more weight then they are currently.

Can you summarize what they are being feed (what kind of formula, how much and how often as well as any solids they may be eating)?

It would be super terrific if you could post a current picture of your little ones! :flash

[breannahope]

Weighing them every day is extremely important and can sometimes signal issues before they are "observed". They should be gaining several grams every day. If they do not gain over the course of a day, there is a problem or things need to be adjusted.

Male #1 was 78grams according to the post on 8/19 and today is 115 grams.

For comparison, a 4 week old squirrel arrived here on 8/20 weighing 68grams and this morning was 134grams. I know Florida squirrels are a little smaller, but I feel like they should be gaining more weight then they are currently.

Can you summarize what they are being feed (what kind of formula, how much and how often as well as any solids they may be eating)?

It would be super terrific if you could post a current picture of your little ones! :flash




Male #2 131 grams
Female 130 grams

50/50 of esbilac and fox valley nutrition. 2 small blocks of the henrys pets baby squirrel protein blocks. And just introduced some spinach today

Pics are in order of male 1, female, male 2

[Mel1959]

They look great! Good job! :w00t

[PennyCash]

Awwwww :klunk

[Spanky]

They are as cute as can be! I guess Male #1 is the runt?!?! :dono

[cava]

So darn cute!!:bunny

[Daisey007]

I know this is contrary to what many advise but I think I would avoid all HH blocks... at least for now. I feel you'd be better off to transition from formula to rodent blocks, lab rat chow or Mazuri block. They've been laboratory tested and approved, and used in professional facilities such as zoos and veterinarian clinics for many, many years, and are a better value. And while adult squirrels hate them, baby squirrels (knowing no better!) learn to love them. After they're accustomed to eating and enjoying those then you can begin adding other nutritious vegetables and fruits. And if you want your squirrels to have an occasional nut, fine but give them the real thing. The primary ingredient in HH blocks is nuts, even after the addition of everything else, which is something we should avoid regardless of what's been added... and it surely shouldn't be depended on to supply all of your squirrels 'critical' nutrition. This is just my humble opinion....:Love_Icon

[astra]

since the subject of HHBs is of absolute importance, upon a good suggestion, I am copying here from another thread what I explained about HHBs http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54885-Basic-Nutrition&p=1176779#post1176779

That HHBs are an excellent block, formulated for squirrels and far superior to even best commercial blocks is not just an "advice" or a "popular belief."

HHBs have been used with success as the foundational block for squirreles for many years.

Being adamant about first ingredients being nuts reveals one's lack of knowledge of what determines the order of ingredients on a food label.
The order of the ingredients on a food label is determined by WEIGHT, NOT by concentration of nutrients in a given ingredient.
Hence, since BY WEIGHT nuts outweigh other ingredients, they are listed first.
BUT the vitamins and minerals are CONCENTRATED, so even though they are lighter in physical weight, they "OUTWEIGH" the "heavy" nuts by nutritional concentration.
IN other words - nutrition-wise vitamins and minerals overpower the nuts.

MOREOVER, the concentration of vitamins and minerals in HHBs has been based on lab data about rats. THAT means, that HHBs have been formulated pretty much like all that rat block (i.e., based on the same data) yet with a special focus on squirrels, and what makes them far superior to even good commercial block is that they use all human grade ingredients and NO fillers.
The carefully calculated concentration of vitamins and minerals in HHBs neutralized ANY and ALL undesirable effects of cal: phos ratio of nuts. Thus, nuts are only fulfilling their function of making block attractive to squirrels, while concentrated vitamins and minerals fulfill their nutritional "healthful" function.


Comparing block to block, commercial rat block (and some more so than others) use a lot of fillers, and not great ones (soy one of them).
For large rehab and for very, very tight budgets commercial block is used just fine.
But for singletons or whenever budget permits, HHBs are still superior.

There has never been ONE single squirrel with MBD on HHBs.
Furthermore, there have been countless squirrels who recovered from MBD and other injuries on HHBs as their block.

So, to imply and suggest that HHBs are somehow harmful and their benefits are a "popular belief" is a rather grave misinformation.

In order to get over this whole "nuts are listed first" people need to learn that ingredients are listed by weight; and people also need to learn about the differences between weight of a substance and a concentrated substance of lesser weight and so on and so forth.

Different people have their own preferred modes of feedings - and that's fine. But when shared it is best to share them exactly as "personal preferences" and not as some kind of authoritative statements labeling others - in this case HHBs - as a "popular belief."

While more experienced board members may be able to sort out through such comments, newbies may not.

Let's keep personal preferences as such and, when some strong statements are made as in this case of labeling the benefits of HHBs as "popular belief" - let's support such strong claims with facts (such as what determines the order of ingredients in a food label) and not with one's own "preferred beliefs" and misinformation.

Thus, so far there are such facts about HHBs:
1) not one squirrel became ill with MBD on HHBs. EVER.
2) a great number of squirrels recovered from MBD on HHBs
3) They are formulated specifically for squirrels with rat data as foundation.
4) ingredients on food labels are listed in the order of weight, NOT concentration.
5) HHBs use all high quality human grade ingredients.

just to add some food for thought (no pun intended):

one can take a look at any fortified food (e.g., cereal, sports protein bars, sports protein drinks etc.) - the "food" ingredients, i.e., the ingredients that make this stuff edible, are listed first, and all the fortification (vitamins and minerals) are listed after precisely because they are concentrated. If they were listed first, this wouldn't be "food" really, it would be an equivalent of a multivitamin pill.

Similarly, nuts which are listed first in HHBs fulfill the same function - they simply help make the block palatable and food. Otherwise, it would be just a baked equivalent of a multivitamin pill.

Also, some commercial blocks list corn and other less desirable foods among their first ingredients. Yet, because these blocks have concentrated vits. and minerals, the latter neutralize the harmful effects of corn, too.

And as one more example of weight vs. concentration:

If we put a tiny concentrated fatal drop of cyanide in a pound loaf of bread, the wheat flour will be listed first, and the tiny concentrated drop of cyanide will be last b/c it will be even smaller than the amount of yeast needed to make the loaf rise.
And, hopefully, it is unnecessary to explain that despite a very heavy first ingredient - wheat, the tiny but very concentrated last ingredient will overpower all the pound of edible stuff and will fulfill its grim function.

Likewise, I think it's time to stop this "HHBs have nuts as the first ingredient" because (will repeat myself) - the concentrated vits. and minerals neutralize whatever undesirable cal: phos ratio nuts may have.

HHBs are excellent. The best squirrel block out there. And this is not just a "popular belief," this is facts (as listed above) and a collective experience of many people who have been using them for many years.