Diarrhea No Matter What I do!

[tree bunny]

I have a 3 month old Fox Squirrel. She was very unhealthy when I got her. She was already between 4-5 weeks old, emaciated and couldn't even stand. Plus she had pneumonia which I took her to the Vet for in the first 24 hours. She's extremely healthy now in all respects except I can't get her poop to be normal. She's very active and strong and does not act sick at all. Her fur is beautiful. She still wants her formula and I've tried to get her off it with Henry's blocks, which she likes and started with fruit. She's gotten every probiotic on the planet! I bought her some Kaytee rat food 2 days ago, it has probiotic in it too. Last night she was up and down all night with diarrhea or at least straining to go. Not straining in the sense that she's constipated, that couldn't be further from the truth. I took a stool sample in for Ova and Parasite testing and results were negative. This morning we forced some Clavamox, Pedialyte and Benebac. She ate a Hazelnut, and chewed on a rat block. I left for 5 hours and now she's pooping green and it's real mucousy. When she got Baytril for the pneumonia she pooped green then too. I'm at my wits end what to feed her. I've never had a squirrel with this much diarrhea. She actually seems to have better poops when she's back on the milk formula and those are not even normal. But I can't do that forever. Any suggestions for food and is Clavamox ok to use for intestinal issues?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Does the poop have a strong odor?

Also, what formula was she raised on?

I would not use Clavamox for GI issues. That could make things worse.

[tree bunny]

I think it stinks pretty bad. i raised her on scalded cows milk with heavy whipping cream, light corn syrup and probiotic. I've used 3 different probiotic; Benebac, Kyodophilus and Stoneyfield yogurt in the batches of formula. What antibiotic would you use if any?

[HRT4SQRLS]

OK, I know the problem. The scalded milk is the problem. I would get her off the scalded milk STAT. I know there is a website that promotes it but unfortunately.... they are wrong.... dead wrong. (Many baby squirrels die on scalded milk formula.)

I would start offering veggies. Do not give her fruit just yet. Offer her sugar snap peas, kale, avocado... I'll think of others. Give me a minute. (Romaine lettuce)

Give her the HHB and the rodent blocks.
I hate to see her wean this young BUT the scaled milk must stop now. If she was mine I would go to a pet retailer and buy powdered Esbilac puppy formula with probiotics and prebiotics. Mix that and try to get her to take that INSTEAD of the scalded milk.

I would stop all probiotics and antibiotics. If her diet is corrected the diarrhea will probably stop. The scalded milk is causing the diarrhea.

She might need to be treated for Coccidia but let's fix the diet first.

[tree bunny]

I had her poop tested and there was no Coccidia. I've used Scalded milk before with no problems at all. I have a can of puppy esbilac, I could use that next. I have Baycox for Coccidia if needed to give. When you say the Clavamox could make it worse is it because I'd be destroying normal flora?

[ALittleNutty]

I had her poop tested and there was no Coccidia. I've used Scalded milk before with no problems at all. I have a can of puppy esbilac, I could use that next. I have Baycox for Coccidia if needed to give. When you say the Clavamox could make it worse is it because I'd be destroying normal flora?

If it's the new Esbilac powder for puppies with the pre and probiotics. There's a blue band across the bottom label of the can. I wouldn't add anything extra to the formula mixture. You might want to start out with a 3 parts water to one part powder at first and work up to full strength over a few feedings to allow her system to adjust.

[Spanky]

I have a can of puppy esbilac, I could use that next.

Is it the powdered Esbilac puppy formula (not goat's milk)? The liquid version is very different. The 3rd ingredient should be "dried whey protein concentrate".

[HRT4SQRLS]

Is the can of Esbilac the liquid? The liquid Esbilac is different from the powdered puppy Esbilac. It also can cause diarrhea or other issues.

Any antibiotics can cause GI issues but I don't believe you have a bacterial issue that you need to treat. But yes, you are correct... Antibiotics can unset the bacterial balance in the GI tract.

As far as the fecal, IMO unless the sample is VERY fresh and the person reading the O&P is very experienced at reading them, I don't have a lot of confidence in 'negative' results. Many parasites are extremely fragile and any delay in examining the specimen will result in the parasites rupturing/disintegrating. This leads to false negatives. I would not treat for Coccidia until the formula issue is settled though.

While some squirrels will tolerate scalded milk and actually survive, we have seen MANY that actually die from it. Some will survive in spite of it. In this case, the squirrel has survived but not necessarily thrived. I would switch.

[tree bunny]

My Esbilac is canned liquid. I got it from the Wildlife Emergency Vet when I took her in for pneumonia. Ive used Esbilac before, always the cans, not powder and every squirrel would have diarrhea from it. The can says nothing about pro or prebiotics. The can has blue around the top of the can and a short blue strip at the bottom front of the can. Like I said, I've used it many times before but always diarrhea resulted. I would also dilute it with Pedialyte.

[HRT4SQRLS]

My Esbilac is canned liquid. I got it from the Wildlife Emergency Vet when I took her in for pneumonia. Ive used Esbilac before, always the cans, not powder and every squirrel would have diarrhea from it. The can says nothing about pro or prebiotics. The can has blue around the top of the can and a short blue strip at the bottom front of the can. Like I said, I've used it many times before but always diarrhea resulted. I would also dilute it with Pedialyte.

That's why we don't use the canned liquid Esbilac... it causes diarrhea.
Sorry, but vets are notoriously wrong when it comes to squirrels.
I am happy that you have a vet though because treating the pneumonia was critical.

[tree bunny]

Her poop was "just fresh" when I scooped it up and took it to Vet. The can does not have whey protein as the third ingredient. There is no Whey protein in the ingredient list. I can run to the Pet store and buy different.

[tree bunny]

I'll be back, I'm going to store now.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I really would buy the powdered Esbilac puppy formula with probiotics and prebiotics.

It sounds like you've been working on this diarrhea issue for a while now.
It's time to try a different approach. :thumbsup We are here to help you.

IF this doesn't work, we will gladly help you with dosing of the Baycox and possibly even treating with Metronidazole for Giardia. Let's try the formula first.

PLEASE GET THE ABOVE FORMULA... NOT ESBILAC PETLAC,etc.

[tree bunny]

I bought the powdered Esbilac. She refuses to take it. I added some gerber rice/oatmeal flakes to entice her but still refuses it. I have no choice but to make my own formula again and see if she even wants that. She hasn't had formula for a couple days and maybe us forcing the antibiotic, benebac and pedialyte this morning has made her distrust the syringe and me. She's also one of those squirrels who won't drink from a different syringe. My last squirrel did the same thing. Put a new syringe to her mouth and she acts like she's been shocked! I'm waiting for the formula to cool down. I have a dosing chart for the Baycox but at her age I don't know how I will be able to weigh her. She is so strong and fast she would never be still on the scale. My other squirrel Johnny, who I've posted about here recently had coccidia in his feces. That's why I have the Baycox. But we didn't get it delivered in time before having to take him to the Vet again at which time he was given Panacur. So I haven't used the Baycox yet. BTW Johnny is doing much better. That's a different case though. So I just want to experiment to see if she even wants her old formula which she practically chews your arm off to drink it! She will literally take the syringe out of your hand before you can refill it and try to run with it. She's funny and so energetic. Anyway, I'm going to try the formula here soon.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I bought the powdered Esbilac. She refuses to take it. I added some gerber rice/oatmeal flakes to entice her but still refuses it. I have no choice but to make my own formula again and see if she even wants that. She hasn't had formula for a couple days and maybe us forcing the antibiotic, benebac and pedialyte this morning has made her distrust the syringe and me. She's also one of those squirrels who won't drink from a different syringe. My last squirrel did the same thing. Put a new syringe to her mouth and she acts like she's been shocked! I'm waiting for the formula to cool down. I have a dosing chart for the Baycox but at her age I don't know how I will be able to weigh her. She is so strong and fast she would never be still on the scale. My other squirrel Johnny, who I've posted about here recently had coccidia in his feces. That's why I have the Baycox. But we didn't get it delivered in time before having to take him to the Vet again at which time he was given Panacur. So I haven't used the Baycox yet. BTW Johnny is doing much better. That's a different case though. So I just want to experiment to see if she even wants her old formula which she practically chews your arm off to drink it! She will literally take the syringe out of your hand before you can refill it and try to run with it. She's funny and so energetic. Anyway, I'm going to try the formula here soon.

You will have to transition if she refused the formula. It sounds like she's not happy with the syringe right now. Try to get her to take the usual formula if she's mad about the antibiotics, probiotics, etc. Hopefully she will take it. THEN, mix the usual formula with the Esbilac formula and transition over. We usually do a slow transition like 25%/75% .... then 50%/50%.... then 75%/25% .... then 100% new formula. The slow transition is done to prevent diarrhea and GI upset but you already have that. This transition with be to switch her slowly to the new 'taste'.

I guess you have a scale. I would use a Rubbermaid bowl of some type. Put a tiny treat in the bottom. Press the 'tare' button on the scale to zero out the container. You'll have to get creative to weigh her. I don't recommend seeds because they are unhealthy BUT sometimes they will hang around to eat a sunflower seed as opposed to a nut... they just grab and run. I can actually get pics of my flyers by giving them a sunflower seed. A nut.... forget about it. No way.

Are you familiar with the Healthy Squirrel Diet chart? I can post a link because she should be eating healthy solid foods at this point. I wouldn't give nuts now or she will never eat healthy foods. I'm glad she's eating the HHB and rodent block. :) Many squirrels will already have weaned themselves by this point. We don't wean them. We let them stop as they choose. The bottom line is that IF she still wants formula, I would offer the Esbilac if you can get her to take it. That might not be easy at this age. IF she only wants the scalded milk I would be forced to wean her to solid food.

[HRT4SQRLS]

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224695&d=1391033425

[tree bunny]

Ok, she loved her old formula. So she's not distrustful of the syringe or me. I usually add Benebac to the entire batch each time I make it. I make 1 Cup batches. This time, I gave her Benebac just in this feeding and did not add it to entire batch. Because I use the Gel Benebac, it doesn't dissolve well and is actually meant for direct mouth feeding. So I sucked some up in the center of her 3cc syringe. She could tell when she got to the Benebac, just the slightest hint of it made her think of stopping. She got a good feeding though. She has a dish of water also and I know she knows how to drink from it. You know, this Coccidia thing has me in a tailspin. Even though her fecal test was negative, I read that the oocysts can be shed intermittently in the feces. So it seems logical that you could have a negative test one sample and positive another. Like my other squirrel Johnny, he was Coccidia positive. His count was only 1+ on a scale of 1-4. He never had diarrhea. But he almost died. Lost half his body weight. Plus I've read that Coccidia is part of the normal flora but can goes haywire if the animal becomes immunosuppressed or even stressed out. Have any of you used Baycox before? Any bad side effects? I wonder if I should just give it to her since it is only 2 doses a week apart. I have been dealing with her big, fat, mucous poops for 2 months now. I gotta get this under control before she doesn't want to drink formula willingly. I'm not good at force feeding. That's why I wanted to start her on solid food thinking that would help even though I agree it's too soon to wean. The rat food definitely made it worse. If she does have a bacterial gastroenteritis, which antibiotic is best? This is driving me nuts especially with my other squirrel almost dying. I'm a wreck! All happening simultaneously! I welcome comments.

[tree bunny]

Yes, I know about the squirrel diet chart. :)

[stepnstone]

"Diarrhea No Matter What I do"
Scalded milk, canned formula, obviously responsible and you've been told it's junk!
You've been given good advise yet your going back to what you have been doing
expecting different results.
I don't get it, that's just not logical. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/i-dunno-hand-gesture-smiley-emoticon.gif

[island rehabber]

Just to reiterate what's been said before:

TSB does NOT recommend the feeding of "scalded milk" to squirrels....EVER, under any circumstances. The reason is chronic diarrhea and malnourishment exactly as you are describing.

NEVER mix Pedialyte with formula. They cancel each other out and cause dehydration.

TSB does NOT recommend the use of canned formula of any kind. Only Esbilac "with probiotics", Fox Valley 20/50, and in an emergency, temporary goat milk formula.

You've got three of our best and brightest here -- Spanky, HRT4SRLS and stepnstone -- helping you. Please, please listen to them. :peace

[tree bunny]

I did listen...I bought the powdered Esbilac. She refused to drink it. If you read my post more thoroughly, you'd see I was trying the old formula just to see if I had luck getting her to drink ANY formula since she was off it a couple days and we had traumatized her this morning forcing antibiotics, probiotics and a tiny amount of Pedialyte. She has an attachment to only 1 syringe. She won't feed from a different one. So I was doing a test...not resorting to same routine expecting different results. Everyone militantly defends their personal formula as "the best and ONLY". The best advantage the powdered Esbilac has over the canned is the addition of Probiotics, whey protein and overall has a better ingredient list. But come on, I have a squirrel who is now used to Whole Milk with Heavy whipping cream and light corn syrup with gerber cereal added. I've never seen a squirrel go so crazy over a formula! I think it's the cereal. Much more delicious than powder mixed with water. She's thriving...as someone else had stated squirrels don't thrive on Scalded cow's milk. My last squirrel survived it and was released. Do any of you enjoy protein powder drinks? They're usually gritty and quite unpleasant to drink because you can't get the powder to dissolve completely. That's basically what the Esbilac powder is. My God if you all only knew how many people I've consulted over the last 10 years, how much research I've done, the number of articles I've read. Every person is militant about their choice of formula. Don't use Esbilac, use Esbilac ONLY, Use Goats Milk, Use Kitten replacement because it's much richer in nutrients than puppy milk, then the Fox Valley...the worst formula ever! I found an article about a squirrel that died from that formula because it wouldn't dissolve and the necropsy found undissolved solids in the squirrels intestines. I couldn't get that stuff to dissolve to save my life! I even called the man who makes it and asked what I'm doing wrong! So when I ask for help, the only help I usually get is a scolding. Every now and then I get a useful piece of advice. So now I have a conundrum tomorrow morning. My only option is the canned Esbilac with Benebac added and BTW, Benebac has the exact same probiotics as the powdered Esbilac. EXACT! So I can add that to the canned Esbilac. Or...I could do as someone else suggested, slowly add the powdered Esbilac in place of the Scalded Cows Milk. I know several people who use Scalded Cows Milk and swear by it. Truly, isn't it better to give organic food in it's natural state rather than an adulterated product? After all, how do they make Esbilac? They have to make it from Milk! So, I'm done here. My other posting about my squirrel Johnny had people ALL OVER ME that he had MBD!!!!! He didn't and doesn't. He had Coccidia and pneumonia. And you all had me really believing he DID have MBD and I wasted countless days, a week actually, trying to find supplements that he would tolerate to get Calcium into his body. Countless days of 2 people frantic about this MBD!!! I'm furious over the last two comments. Save your MBD and formula comments for the people who have never raised a single squirrel. You will benefit those people the most.

[Spanky]

If you believe the rice cereal is part of her reason for liking the old formula I would go ahead and that to the Esbilac formula. That should actually help with the diarrhea issues.

And the previous suggestion to transition slowly by mixing the old formula and Esbilac until she is transitioned completely over should help your picky one make the switch.

[island rehabber]

We have no reason to attack or annoy you, tree bunny. We truly just want to see this squirrel recover from constant diarrhea.
Of course there are conflicting theories about formulas, and to make matters worse the formulas change over the years so that what was once recommended highly is suddenly warned against as deadly. Your referene to what I believe was Fox Valley 32/40, which stuck in a squirrel's digestive tract like cement, is a good example of that. 32/40 was an answer to rehabber's prayers for feeding pinkies for many years......until it wasn't. We always adapt and try to give the very best advice to those who search this site, constantly revising that advice as things change.
Scalded milk? Look at the source. Christina Clark, owner of squirrelsandmore.com, has raised thousands, literally thousands, of baby squirrels. She can tell you of the ones she has received who were on scalded milk and were given to her dying -- she could never save them all. Some guy with a website (the nurse) is cult-like about his devotion to scalded milk; I have no clue why he is so completely obtuse on this issue but I have gone nine rounds with him to no avail. TSB will CHANGE its recommendations as formulas change. Clinging to a belief or methodology nomatter what happens to the contrary is simply a sign of low intelligence.

Your baby loves that formula because it's very very sweet.......squirrels have a sweet tooth just like we do. It will take some patience to transition him to a better formula, but it will pay off in the long run.

Again, we want to help. We have no other agenda. Peace. :great

[ALittleNutty]

Your baby needs help. You asked for it and you have gotten some good advice. Your description of your baby sounds like that of a 2 year old child who has to have everything THEIR way. It's time for some tough love. Since like IR stated your baby has developed a taste for the sweet formula maybe continue to add the cereal and corn syrup to the Esbilac at first and then gradually reduce it. Switching back and forth, adding this and that is too much on little guts. Your squirrel will not starve itself but you have to be strong too and not give in just because it refused the formula at first. Best of luck!

[Mel1959]

I read your whole post, tree bunny, and I understand that you tried the old formula to see if your little girl would take ANYTHING from you via a syringe. I would probably have done the same thing. But now that you know she WILL take formula from you, retry the powdered Esbilac mixed with water at a rate of 1 part formula to 3 parts water, gradually working up to 1 part formula and 2 parts water. You could also add some of the cereal to the formula if you think she really likes that. I would caution adding any or much of the corn syrup. It is recommended to use to alleviate constipation in infants so it is probably having the same effect on your girl. I hesitate to recommend adding anything else, but canned pumpkin can also be used to treat diarrhea. I hope your little girl will eventually accept the formula. Stay strong and keep trying. I know how difficult it is to deal with loose stools. My dwarf squirrel had intestinal problems with diarrhea for 4 months. Yuck!

[island rehabber]

GOOD suggestion about the canned pumpkin! I forgot about that, and it can work beautifully. :great

[Mommaluvy]

I am just going to add.

Panacur ( Johnny squirrel ) Does not cure coccidia. So if his diarrhea went away from that then it was probably not coccidia but instead does treat Giardia .

At three months I would ditch the scalded milk formula completely.. feed the proper solids and work toward release.

Also, when you come to a place and ask advice, be prepared for advice. No one here has a high opinion of scalded milk.

Also.. too much sugar can cause the runs.. look to removing the corn syrup.

[tree bunny]

Scalded milk, canned formula, obviously responsible and you've been told it's junk!
You've been given good advise yet your going back to what you have been doing
expecting different results.
I don't get it, that's just not logical.


I did not appreciate the above comment. I'm prepared to hear REAL advice, not insinuations that I'm not intelligent. I'm a Laboratory Scientist by career. That comment did me absolutely no good. There was nothing useful in it. I know Panacur does not "cure" Coccidia but it was the best choice requiring only 3 doses rather than a 7-10 day regimen because I've read that Albon doesn't really work well. It slows it's replication down so the body can start to fight it again. But, I have boughten Baycox which is supposed to actually kill it. Not approved in the U.S.A so it wasn't available at the Vet. Johnny does not have Giardia per the Fecal Flotation report. Nor does he have Coronavirus, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, Salmonella, Clostridium difficile toxins/Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin or Parvovirus. The only thing he had was Coccidia, Eimeria to be specific. But Johnny is now recovering when I was lectured by many on this site that he had MBD.

Onward to Penny. This morning, I gave her a mixture of 10cc of my Scalded Milk formula, 5cc of liquid canned Esbilac, 3cc of Pedialyte and a dose of Baycox because I don't believe the Fecal Flotation results. Mixed with her favorite Gerber oatmeal/rice flakes and she drank all but 2cc of it. She usually wants more but she could tell the difference and I couldn't make her take that last 2cc willingly. That Esbilac smells like a barn! Yuk! I'm surprised she drank any of it. She ate a Henry block for lunch.

Here's a question I'd like an answer to from anyone who may know...Why does Scalded Cow's Milk kill babies? What's the science behind it? The TSB almost considers it poison! Perhaps the true reason many squirrels, per your knowledge of, don't thrive or survive on it is only because they are being fed a formula that is not properly made by novices. There's a turning point where they need more fat than protein. That's why you add the heavy whipping cream. Perhaps these people are just giving plain scalded milk, no extra cream or corn syrup or probiotics. Maybe they don't know when to stop and they boil the heck out of it. I'd like an intelligent explanation based on facts why Cow's milk is deadly.

[ALittleNutty]

I honestly don't have an answer for you. I know what works for me and it was FV 32/40 up until the formula changed. I still use it for my adult flyers with no issues. Since the FV 32/40 started having issues I start on GM formula if I don't have Esbilac on hand and then gradually make the transition. Once eyes are open I usually move to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and FV 20/50 up until weaning. The only supplement I use is Ultraboost for babies that just aren't gaining like they should. So far I have had no issues at all except for ones they come in with due to being fed improperly. Slow transitions are key but if they have been fed crap I will flush with water and go straight to a weak formula working up to full strength. One pinkie came in severely emaciated, dehydrated, full blown runs and had been fed Kaopectate and Pet milk. She hadn't been kept warm and had severe head trauma from her fall. I am still amazed she pulled through all of that and was able to be released.

Oh the liquid Esbilac does stink! The new powder version hardly smells at all.

Honestly I have read lots of articles and you will get lots of conflicting opinions but I trust the advice of those here who have raised way more squirrels per year than I have. They don't have time to waste on what doesn't work and they stick with proven methods of what does. That being said you will always have the odd case just like in human babies where one milk, even mother's doesn't cut it but another does. Even in litters what works for most may not work for all.

I sincerely hope you get your baby straightened out soon and thriving.

[TubeDriver]

The reason is because we have seen scalded milk cause a sort of failure to thrive many, many, many times. Empirical evidence, seen or experienced many, many, many times should not be discounted. What is the underlying cause? Evidently, some combination of the nutrient balance is suboptimal?

Do not mix pedialyte with formula.

Do not use liquid Esbilac.

This is what the TSB recommends.

Please try our recommendations and see if they help, they have worked countless times for many, many, many members here! Good luck with your little one.





Scalded milk, canned formula, obviously responsible and you've been told it's junk!
You've been given good advise yet your going back to what you have been doing
expecting different results.
I don't get it, that's just not logical.


I did not appreciate the above comment. I'm prepared to hear REAL advice, not insinuations that I'm not intelligent. I'm a Laboratory Scientist by career. That comment did me absolutely no good. There was nothing useful in it. I know Panacur does not "cure" Coccidia but it was the best choice requiring only 3 doses rather than a 7-10 day regimen because I've read that Albon doesn't really work well. It slows it's replication down so the body can start to fight it again. But, I have boughten Baycox which is supposed to actually kill it. Not approved in the U.S.A so it wasn't available at the Vet. Johnny does not have Giardia per the Fecal Flotation report. Nor does he have Coronavirus, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, Salmonella, Clostridium difficile toxins/Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin or Parvovirus. The only thing he had was Coccidia, Eimeria to be specific. But Johnny is now recovering when I was lectured by many on this site that he had MBD.

Onward to Penny. This morning, I gave her a mixture of 10cc of my Scalded Milk formula, 5cc of liquid canned Esbilac, 3cc of Pedialyte and a dose of Baycox because I don't believe the Fecal Flotation results. Mixed with her favorite Gerber oatmeal/rice flakes and she drank all but 2cc of it. She usually wants more but she could tell the difference and I couldn't make her take that last 2cc willingly. That Esbilac smells like a barn! Yuk! I'm surprised she drank any of it. She ate a Henry block for lunch.

Here's a question I'd like an answer to from anyone who may know...Why does Scalded Cow's Milk kill babies? What's the science behind it? The TSB almost considers it poison! Perhaps the true reason many squirrels, per your knowledge of, don't thrive or survive on it is only because they are being fed a formula that is not properly made by novices. There's a turning point where they need more fat than protein. That's why you add the heavy whipping cream. Perhaps these people are just giving plain scalded milk, no extra cream or corn syrup or probiotics. Maybe they don't know when to stop and they boil the heck out of it. I'd like an intelligent explanation based on facts why Cow's milk is deadly.

[CritterMom]

Because cows milk has casein as the protein, and casein is quite hard to digest. I suppose some babies can take it but many can't, and the undigested formula makes it's appearance at the other end of the squirrel. Nor would you want a formula that had the whey protein isolate as the ONLY protein source because it is too FAST to digest and the babies are hungry again almost immediately. The powdered esbilac has blended the two protein sources so it is easily digested but doesn't race through the digestive tract so fast. When the babies open their eyes many here transition to a blend of 1/2 esbilac and 1/2 Fox Valley 20/50. The 20/50 has all casein, so this makes for a thicker formula that sticks to the ribs of the bigger kids so you can take an occasional shower in between feedings.

Oddly, the lower the milkfat, the higher the amount of casein, so the skim milk which is commonly used in the scalded milk formula actually has the highest amount of casein in milk. This is why you can add heavy cream to formulas to beef up skinny babies in small amounts without digestive issues - the heavy cream has WAY less than the skim milk.

The idea of scalding the milk is to break down the protein in it - the casein - to make it digestible. Scalding is different things to different people - technically it MUST be done on direct heat, not in a microwave, and I am sure there is a specific temperature and time, etc. I also imagine the amounts you are making change the time it heats, etc., and that means you have a really wide window of "not quite right" and a very narrow one of "done correctly."

And yes, manufacturers make changes to formula and don't tell anybody, and yes it can have disastrous results. Being hooked in to a community the size of this one is very helpful - taken as a group we care for hundreds of babies a year and so can spot trends quickly. When a bunch of people are all feeding the same thing they have fed forever and it suddenly stops working, we can see that a lot faster than a lone rehabber will...

[Mel1959]

:goodpost Thank you, CM, for such an in depth response about the scalded milk. I learned a lot. I can only add what has worked for me in my VERY LIMITED experience.....powdered Esbilac, till the Fox Valley 20/50 arrived and I have always added the Ultraboost. Absolutely no diarrhea and very happy, plump and healthy squirrels. I followed TSB advice and offered HHBs as the first food and nothing else till they were eating the block. It worked like a champ! The only thing I didn't do, which I wish I had, was also offer a good rodent block. It would have made it far more economical to balance the cost of rodent block vs. fresh veggies. The fresh veggies are a hit and miss at best. What they like today, they may not like in 2 days! I wouldn't have changed providing them the veggies, but I would know that they were getting additional nutrition from the rodent block. I did 2 HHB blocks faithfully each day.

Please listen to the wealth of knowledge here at TSB. If your Penny was thriving on the scalded milk formula she wouldn't have loose stools. That's a sign that you need to heed. Gradually introduce more of the Esbilac and less of the scalded milk and corn syrup. She will not starve herself.

I hope Penny responds well to the transition and tough love you are showing her. Please continue to let us know how she's doing. We care. :grouphug

[Mommaluvy]

I actually do have an answer to the scalded milk question. At least for humans.
It used to be an old time remedy for "second summer" diahrea in children. For some reasons some kids get the runs in their second summer. My granny taught me this and I used it on two of my kids and saw a nephe. It clears up the poops
However, a steady diet of scalded milk will even cause children to get malnourished.

The heating of the milk At those temps denatures the proteins that were mentioned before . It also destroys the natural enzymes in milk that are needed to digest those proteins.. Which have now been radically changed by the heat anyway.

Lactose is a carbohydrate found in milk that must be broken down by the enzyme lactase, boiling the milk makes this more concentrate and destroys the enzyme .

Boiling milk can also reduce its nutrient content . Even pasteurizing milk lowers the particularly thiamine, vitamin B12 and vitamin C content, but milk isn't a good source of these nutrients anyway. Which is why those are added often in commercial formulas.

[Mommaluvy]

And then there is this..http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47804-HELP-DIARRHEA-WON-T-GO-AWAY

The article on the children .
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19710707&id=yu9RAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2nUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7069,1001727&hl=en

The skimmed milk they refer too is not just skimmed.. It's later boiled in an open pan and scalded . My grandmother called it the scalded milk cure. Would I use it on my kids again.. No more than a cup or two. The kids in this article had been fed it for days.

Totally forgot about the concentrated salts being damaging on the kidneys.

Believe me.. If home made formulas ( cheap ) worked and were safe then every rehabber would be using them. They may be cheap but they are no good. Except the emergency use of goats milk.

[Daisey007]

I wasn't sure what "scalded" cow's milk was or why it's considered so bad, so once again I've learned something!

With that being said, I have some things to add to this discussion...

I've raised baby squirrels since 1976... 40 years now. This was many years before wildlife rehabilitation became common, and before a license was even required. So, I wonder if anyone can tell me which manufactured baby animal formula I used to raise 336 (+/- 3 or 4) baby squirrels on? Well, let's just say there was life before Esbilac.

I used a simple formula of -
1 - cup whole cow's milk
1 - egg yoke
NO SUGAR OR SYRUP!

3 Rules
-make fresh daily
-no portion ever reheated
-keep refrigerated.

After the babies opened their eyes, I added a little rice cereal and then thickened a bit more over the next two weeks until they were eating a fully thickened formula. They loved it and they thrived on it. Have you ever looked at the nutrients listed on the side of Gerber rice cereal? It's huge. None of the babies ever got sick, and I never lost a single one... NOT ONE.

I was excited to try and use Esbilac when I learned of it. It wasn't easy to get to the babies to take to it and like it the way they took to the 'simple milk formula' but I was convinced it had better nutrition, so I just went with it. I'd like to say I saw bigger healthy babies from it than on the milk formula but that wasn't the case... however, they seemed to do as well as they had on the milk formula, so I stuck with it. And then 3 of my babies got sick and died from it. My first ever to die while in my care. I was heart broken and mad as hell about it! :pissed Yes, yes, yes... I know what happened, and I know they said they've corrected it (or have resumed making it by their original methods) but it's still not quite the same, and I no longer trust them.

I've said all of this to say, that I believe that there are better, more nutritious formulas for baby squirrels than simple cow's milk based formula available today. And I feel we should strive for the best! I'm not sure it's any of the ones mentioned so frequently here but I believe there is better. However, I'd like to say that just because someone has a different opinion or a different perspective about something, or based on their experience believes a little differently than some of you... that it doesn't make them wrong. Most people are very polite and understanding to varying opinions on TSB but to those that are less than polite ... I can assure you there was life before Esbilac.

[tree bunny]

Thank you Daisy007!!

Well here is the update on Penny...I tried transitioning her from my scalded formula with the Gerber Oatmeal/Rice over to Esbilac. I first tried the liquid canned...2 part scalded to 1 part Esbilac. Stunk to high heaven but she did take it...once. So then I decided to use the powdered Esbilac. I just added it to the scalded milk rather than first diluting it with water and then added plenty of Gerber cereal to make it more appealing. She refused it. So then we read somewhere on a different thread, a post by Crittermom, helping someone with a squirrel w/diarrhea. To give Pepto Bismol. She'd been off any milk now for 36 hours. We gave her 3 drops. Then we just decided she's just got to start eating only solid food. She has gone from 60g to 270g on Scalded Milk in the 2 months I've had her. She's now pooping much better. She eats Romaine lettuce, LOVES cherry tomatoes, slivered almonds, plum, sweet potato and some oatmeal chex cereal. Her Henry block too. She drinks lots of water. She's a happy bouncy little girl. Always has been. So, I'll be buying more veggies for her to try today. It's weird because when I first got her, she had pneumonia and had to be on Baytril. That gave her terrible green mucous poop. Once the AB stopped, her poop became normal. I looked back through all my daily notes and it appeared the bad poop started gradually when I added the Gerber cereal. I'd never given a baby squirrel Gerber Cereal before. Maybe it was too much fiber for her?