10 days old girl - seems to be getting skinnier [Archive]

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 09:41 PM

Need some help...can anyone tell me if this 10 day old girl looks normal? She seems to be drinking from her mom whenever mom goes into the box.....she seems active, crawling around...

but compared to the 1st few days she was born, she seems to be skinnier and i can see ribs...:( Please help

mother (missy) is eating oxbow regal rat kibbles and i give her apples, carrots, purple sweet potato, sunflower seeds and unshelled pine nuts...

TIA!!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5460_zpsyiydhtmo.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5459_zpstcwptq2f.jpg

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 09:52 PM

Oh my, no... she is too skinny. When they are on mom they are usually little, round pigs.

I would discontinue the pinenuts and seeds. They have a horrible calcium to phosphorus ratio. Nursing will pull calcium out of Missy so she needs very healthy foods.

Is there any way to supplement Missy? Can you get Royal Canin formula or other formula to supplement the baby? It just worries me to see the little ones ribs.

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 10:03 PM

forgot to mention, missy has a big piece of cuttlebone shes constantly eating up...

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 10:05 PM

missy usually doesnt get a lot of sunflower seeds and pine nuts but i thought she needs some oilier and fatty foods....

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 10:07 PM

The cuttlebone is good. Will Missy eat yogurt or any calcium rich foods?

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 10:12 PM

I can try feeding her yogurt this evening....

is it possible missy has run out of milk??

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 10:15 PM

Yes, it is possible. Will she let you rub her underside to feel for milk?
Can you get formula just in case she can't raise the baby?

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 10:28 PM

shes very protective of the baby and quite skittish...i dont think i can touch her belly w/o getting chewed up...

what foods is high in calcium besides yogurt?

island rehabber

07-17-2016, 10:30 PM

island rehabber

07-17-2016, 10:32 PM

shes very protective of the baby and quite skittish...i dont think i can touch her belly w/o getting chewed up...

what foods is high in calcium besides yogurt?

Bok choy and kale are good....also dandelion leaves if you have them there.

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 10:35 PM

Here's a few..

Chinese cabbage
Leafy greens like kale, romaine, endive, dandelion
Orange
Tangerine
Papaya

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:03 PM

That baby definitely needs help! (She's way older than 10 days - more like 3 wks). See if you can supplement her diet with formula at least 4x per day. Also, try some avocado for mom -- it's great nutrition and most squirrels love it.

the little girl was borned july 09, 2016 saturday....i think its because i cropped the pic and the magnification makes her look a bit bigger. I will get the avocado if i can find after work...

Regarding the formula, its the royal canin formula for puppies or kittens?

Thanks all!!

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:03 PM

Bok choy and kale are good....also dandelion leaves if you have them there.

dandelions i can get easily, they grow like weeds on the roadside

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:04 PM

Here's a few..

Chinese cabbage
Leafy greens like kale, romaine, endive, dandelion
Orange
Tangerine
Papaya

got it! i will look for them

Thank you!!

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 11:08 PM

the little girl was borned july 09, 2016 saturday....i think its because i cropped the pic and the magnification makes her look a bit bigger. I will get the avocado if i can find after work...

Regarding the formula, its the royal canin formula for puppies or kittens?

Thanks all!!
Puppies

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:08 PM

this is missys 2nd time giving birth...1st time, 2 babies a boy and a girl...both died. one on the 2nd day and one on the 4th day...she was so clumsy with those 2 and i guesss just did not have the mother skills yet. that was in may 2016

this time round, she gave birth to this single little girl...been having sleepless nites...would wake up in the nites to check that shes ok...:(

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:09 PM

Puppies

got it! i will look for it....but chances are slim

i can get fresh goats milk quite easily...will it work?

HRT4SQRLS

07-17-2016, 11:11 PM

Yes, goats milk will be great as a supplement. It's not a 'complete' formula but as a supplement it would be good.

SlowcarIX

07-17-2016, 11:16 PM

Yes, goats milk will be great as a supplement. It's not a 'complete' formula but as a supplement it would be good.

i will get her that to start out and try find the rest

kind of feeling sick after seeing her ribs....after the 1st batch that both died, i really want this baby girl to grow up

SlowcarIX

07-18-2016, 02:26 AM

just took these in daylight...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5472_zpsrqpbyzkv.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5465_zps7s9yov0g.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5467_zpseoit9dmk.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5474_zpsj5luxo0e.jpg

SlowcarIX

07-18-2016, 02:31 AM

shes 19grams....how much goats milk should i give her?

stepnstone

07-18-2016, 03:24 AM

shes 19grams....how much goats milk should i give her?

New born are between 15-25, 19 grams can't be right can it??
Baby is dehydrated, it really needs hydration. A dehydrated
baby can't process it's formula in that state.

SlowcarIX

07-18-2016, 05:31 AM

New born are between 15-25, 19 grams can't be right can it??
Baby is dehydrated, it really needs hydration. A dehydrated
baby can't process it's formula in that state.

i gave the baby home made hydration fluid and weight went from 19g to 22gm...gave it till she wants no more.....

HRT4SQRLS

07-18-2016, 08:16 AM

Here is a temporary recipe that you can make from readily available supplies.

TEMPORARY GOAT'S MILK FORMULA:

3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream
1 part vanilla yogurt

Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

Step, this is an Asian squirrel so they are smaller, so 19g is probably right.

I just kept thinking about this baby last night. If Missy lost her first babies it is unlikely that she can raise this one. She will need your help. Supplementing Missy with calcium won't be enough.

With the goat milk, feed 5% of her body weight each feeding.

stepnstone

07-18-2016, 01:06 PM

Step, this is an Asian squirrel so they are smaller, so 19g is probably right.

Didn't consider that but WoW! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/shocked/shocked-eyes-smiley-emoticon.gifThanks Hrt!

CritterMom

07-18-2016, 01:17 PM

Actually, these are the Eurasian red squirrels - the ones with the tufts on the ears. The little girl is a dark color phase. I think they are a bit larger than the American reds but smaller than a gray by far.

SlowcarIX

07-18-2016, 06:19 PM

SlowcarIX

07-18-2016, 06:27 PM

No royal canin puppy formula at the pet store...had several chinese brands at the petstore, they recommanded one that was supposely "imported" but instructions were in chinglish...

Anyways, i mixed up 1gm puppy formula : 6 gms warm water...baby seems to have runny stool this morning

what i am doing is to try help missy supplement her feeding, not take over the feeding

Here is a temporary recipe that you can make from readily available supplies.

TEMPORARY GOAT'S MILK FORMULA:

3 parts goat’s milk
1 part heavy whipping cream
1 part vanilla yogurt

Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

Step, this is an Asian squirrel so they are smaller, so 19g is probably right.

I just kept thinking about this baby last night. If Missy lost her first babies it is unlikely that she can raise this one. She will need your help. Supplementing Missy with calcium won't be enough.

With the goat milk, feed 5% of her body weight each feeding.

redwuff

07-19-2016, 04:33 PM

SlowcarIX

07-20-2016, 06:13 PM

I would take over feedings if I had that baby. She is very thin and malnourished. She needs to be fed every 3 hours for a total of 7 times a day. I think you already started hydration fluid so that is good. Don't know what kind of info you need. Feeding with syringe and nipple is best. Need warm baby and warm formula ( warmer than for human). Feed 5%of body wt. weigh every morning before feeding.

Thanks for the info! I have started feeding the little one goatmilk/yogurt/cream mix.

Is it possible Missy is not producing enough milk? There is certainly some milk that has kept the little one going but not enough....?

redwuff

07-20-2016, 07:12 PM

Very possible!

HRT4SQRLS

07-20-2016, 07:16 PM

I'm glad you're supplementing the little one. :tilt

I think there are 2 possibilities. Missy might not be producing enough milk OR the milk she's producing might not be complete. Keep in mind that you have a very unique situation. There have been a few squirrels that bred and gave birth in captivity but not that many. I suppose where you are, there are breeders. There isn't a lot of information out there on this situation. As hard as we try, we will never reproduce a squirrels native diet. Any deficiencies in the diet would probably be reflected in the quality of the milk. This would certainly affect the babies health.

Be sure to supplement Missy's diet with calcium as her body will pull calcium from her bones to produce milk if her intake of calcium is low.

How is Missy reacting to you handling her baby?

SlowcarIX

07-20-2016, 07:50 PM

redwuff/HRT,

afaik, these squirrels come from the china/russia borders where temperatures are much cooler than down south where i am...also the oxbow food i am feeding missy/mj, they seem too fat free, both are lean compared to those unsold squirrels in the store i got them from (on a sunflower seed/apple/sweet potato diet/cake). I dont know if the 2 things i mentioned has an effect on milk production.

missy has a big chunk of cuttlebone and she is constantly chewing on it...

missy seems ok i guess when the baby is not in the cage, she looks around for a min or 2 then she goes on and does her own thing...

redwuff

07-20-2016, 09:24 PM

Thank goodness Missy lets you handle the baby. Not too many moms would. Hoping for the best for that little one.:grouphug

SlowcarIX

07-27-2016, 08:28 AM

i could not find royal canin/esbilac...went to a few pet stores to look for puppy formula, most were written in chinese. finally found one written in chinglish and the owner assures that it can be fed to puppies AND also kittens.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5553_zpsnc0wjgjj.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5550_zpszwyx2fud.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5551_zpsafykh7fr.jpg

fed this formula to the little one and she has constant diarrhea for 2 days...took her off this formula, flushed her out with home made hydration fluid for half a day then went back to fresh goats milk...the last week or so, i cant seem to get rid of the loose bowels, tried repeated hydration fluid a few times and back to goats milk, problem persist! :(

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5638_zpslr1hu8w6.jpg

poop is a loose bright yellow...she weighs ~24grams, looks frail but shes fighting! shes still crawling in my hand forcefully during feeding time....

what can i do to help her???

TIA!!!

island rehabber

07-27-2016, 08:33 AM

OMG I see what you mean by "Chinglish"! :rotfl
I am sure you have baby rice cereal of some type over there. I would mix a very small amount into the goat's milk formula and see if that firms up her bowels. She is very young to have a solid food, yes, but she needs to get something nutritional into her that doesn't just run out the other end.

SlowcarIX

07-27-2016, 11:06 AM

got this....

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5645_zpsduzin2n0.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5644_zpsus3hariq.jpg

SlowcarIX

07-27-2016, 07:43 PM

the rice cereal is very effective in controlling loose bowels!...no more bright yellow loose poop :thumbsup

HRT4SQRLS

07-27-2016, 07:54 PM

Wow, that's great news. How was she doing on the goat milk formula?

SlowcarIX

07-27-2016, 10:43 PM

Wow, that's great news. How was she doing on the goat milk formula?

shes been having loose bowels and i did not want to make it worse by adding yogurt and heavy cream....

she hasnt pooped yet after eating the cereal....lets see how it goes, might start adding the yogurt/cream in slowly.

should i go back to give the puppy/kitten formula...?

HRT4SQRLS

07-27-2016, 11:00 PM

I wouldn't at this point. Didn't the diarrhea start when the puppy/kitten formula was introduced? I would get things leveled off with the rice cereal and goat milk before I thought about changing anything.

SlowcarIX

07-28-2016, 12:29 AM

12 hrs after mixing the cereal powder into fresh goats milk....the 1st golden nugget appears

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5650_zpss6tn16wd.jpg

its still quite sticky...should i add more cereal powder till it doesnt stick and just rolls off the tissue paper?

island rehabber

07-28-2016, 07:14 AM

I would not change anything yet -- stick with exactly what you're doing because it's working. As mentioned, she IS a bit young for anything solid, so we're walking a fine line here. Good progress!

SlowcarIX

07-29-2016, 10:53 PM

i think baby looks so much better after giving the rice cereal...no more loose bowel but it is still not dry pellets, a bit pasty and smearable....

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5698_zpsonr2vtaq.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5696_zpsuj2tzh1y.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5697_zpsdc23bzfc.jpg

HRT4SQRLS

07-29-2016, 11:09 PM

She does look better. :grin2 Is Missy still trying to nurse her?

island rehabber

07-29-2016, 11:09 PM

She is looking better. Baby poops are not necesssarily the dry, appleseed-like pellets that adults' are, so don't stress over that. Keep going with the formula plus cereal, and don't forget to offer her a little hydration in between feedings if you feel her appetite is lagging or she looks a bit shrivelled again. Slow and steady, with pinkies -- that's the secret. :great

SlowcarIX

07-30-2016, 10:53 AM

I manage to find Esbilac puppy formula locally!.....should i switch or continue with fresh goats milk/rice cereal powder?

HRT4SQRLS

07-30-2016, 11:35 AM

I would switch but you need to transition VERY SLOWLY.

Mix your current formula.
Mix the Esbilac per directions (1 part powder to 2 parts water)

Make a formula with 75% current formula and 25% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to the next level.

Make a formula with 50% current formula and 50% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to the next level.

Make a formula with 25% current formula and 75% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to full strength Esbilac.

ALWAYS NOTE ANY DIARRHEA OR BLOAT.

Basically it's a slow transition.

SlowcarIX

07-30-2016, 12:17 PM

Ok! Will do

Thanks!!

I would switch but you need to transition VERY SLOWLY.

Mix your current formula.
Mix the Esbilac per directions (1 part powder to 2 parts water)

Make a formula with 75% current formula and 25% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to the next level.

Make a formula with 50% current formula and 50% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to the next level.

Make a formula with 25% current formula and 75% Esbilac.
Feed several feedings. Observe poop. If it's OK go to full strength Esbilac.

ALWAYS NOTE ANY DIARRHEA OR BLOAT.

Basically it's a slow transition.

HRT4SQRLS

07-30-2016, 12:21 PM

Does your Esbilac say "with probiotics"?

SlowcarIX

07-30-2016, 01:50 PM

Does your Esbilac say "with probiotics"?

The shop owner assures me yes.....it will be at the shop monday evening. will make its the one with the "with probiotics" before buying it.

SlowcarIX

07-30-2016, 01:52 PM

She does look better. :grin2 Is Missy still trying to nurse her?

I been feeding the baby girl every meal....i havent put her back with missy as i am afraid she might hurt her as i have been handling bare hands...

island rehabber

07-30-2016, 03:15 PM

I been feeding the baby girl every meal....i havent put her back with missy as i am afraid she might hurt her as i have been handling bare hands...

I doubt that she would, but you're wise to be cautious. Maybe some closely supervised time together would be ok. :grin2

SlowcarIX

08-05-2016, 11:24 PM

been feeding the little one esbilac for the last 5 days and her weight is increasing at a steady rate from ~24g to ~50g...and no more loose bowels.

She pees after every feeding but i have never got her to poop. She poops back in the box, dry brownish pellets which i just pick up and throw away

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5899_zpsubhokshm.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_5894_zpswy2jnvxu.jpg

HRT4SQRLS

08-05-2016, 11:33 PM

I'm so happy to hear this. You did it SlowcarIX ... you saved this little girl. :clap
She looks so much better. :grin2

PennyCash

08-05-2016, 11:41 PM

She looks so much better :grin3

SlowcarIX

08-11-2016, 03:18 PM

just an update...

12 days on esbilac and shes gotten to ~70gms......and today is her 5 week of birth

should i add heavy cream to fatten her up? shes starting to have a dislike for esbilac, seems harder to get her to swallow or am i feeding her too often? 3.5ml every 3 hrs....sometimes i am busy so maybe 4hrs...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6079_zpsy1bga7d5.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6075_zps2ddoqvjk.jpg

DarkLies212

08-11-2016, 03:24 PM

SlowcarIX

08-11-2016, 08:18 PM

She's gorgeous!! I see a pinhole eye!! :klunk

I would start stretching out her feedings a bit, though I'm not sure about the cream. I know your squirrels are smaller than ours :thinking

Awesome job with her!! :thumbsup How's Missy doing?

Good eye, i didnt even notice

Missy...she and MJ busy wrestling and fighting over food...:grin3

Put the baby near her to take a whiff.....she runs away! :grin2

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6085_zpsj3hxrqfw.jpg

Mel1959

08-11-2016, 11:05 PM

Good job! What a cutie! :Love_Icon

SlowcarIX

08-19-2016, 08:18 PM

some update:

shes gaining weight well...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6325_zpsrfu91wlg.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6302_zpsjlmypfsq.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6297_zpsngfd3acn.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff172/slowcarIX/IMG_6281_zpssoi8vjxh.jpg