WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

[Nancy in New York]

3 years ago, a discussion was started about pinkies not digesting Fox Valley 32/40 formula.
Seasoned rehabbers were losing babies, from undigested formula that sat in the babies tummies
like cement, with the milk line never disappearing.

I won't rehash the nightmares this caused.

Most people have since switched over to Powdered Puppy Esbilac for babies under 4 weeks
and some have continued with just the Esbilac until the squirrel is weaned.

This is just a reminder that Fox Valley 32/40 kills many/most pinkies, they cannot digest it.

We've been complacent about alerting members of this, thinking that most already knew.
I believe that after 3 years some felt the problem was rectified, (AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!)
because we don't bring it up.

However, in the past 3 years we have NOT recommended it to ANY new member, and this needs to be
mentioned again as a reminder.

This just happened again to a seasoned rehabber. She fed Fox Valley 32/40 and it sat like cement.
Three of the babies have died.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54401-4-pinks-please-read

Discussion from 8/2013

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41878-FOX-VALLEY-amp-PINKIES-Discussion-Thread&highlight=Fox+Valley

IF you have already fed this, a long time member has come up with this protocol below that has helped save his babies.


The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).

[Homefreesoon]

Are there still problems with the fox valley 32/40? I know the center I volunteer for swear by it and said that I was feeding the wrong formula when I fed one the esbilac goats milk for puppies. The only problem I saw with my baby was hard stool. When switched to the fox valley 20/50 the hard stool did resolve. I will be rehabbing in the fall and want to feed the best thing with the least risk of course. As for checking bellies after each feed for pinkies, it is a really great idea. I was a nicu nurse and we did the same on our preemies because they are so small and immature that gut issues was the main problem after the lungs are stabilized.

[Mel1959]

Yes, it has not been resolved. DO NOT feed Fox Valley 32/40 at all!

[island rehabber]

This has worked beautifully for me for the past three seasons, now:

1day - eyes opened...........Esbilac Powder with Probiotics
If weight gain is not optimal, add FV Ultra Boost

Eyes opened until release: Fox Valley 20/50
If weight gain is not optimal, add FV Ultra Boost

No 32/40, ever. At least, not in ANY eyes-closed baby squirrel.
I will add that, coincidentally, poops have been amazingly normal for all babies, all three seasons. Could be good luck. Could be the formulas. :dono

[Azure15]

It's interesting that Fox Valley would still advertise that this is the correct formula to feed under 4wks. If I hadn't found the Squirrel Board BEFORE I found Fox valley, I would have been in the sSo glad this was posted! Has anybody reached out to Fox Valley about this? ( I imagine yes, as it looks like this is a long standing issue)

Thanks !

[island rehabber]

It's interesting that Fox Valley would still advertise that this is the correct formula to feed under 4wks. If I hadn't found the Squirrel Board BEFORE I found Fox valley, I would have been in the sSo glad this was posted! Has anybody reached out to Fox Valley about this? ( I imagine yes, as it looks like this is a long standing issue)

Thanks !

Yes, *sigh* about 4,589 times at last count. Unfortunately the very sweet but somewhat clueless owner of Fox Valley does not believe there is anything wrong with the formula. He tends to blame rehabbers themselves -- telling us we are not "mixing properly" or we should "dilute it with more water". Of course, that deprives newborn creatures of nutrients and no rehabber with half a brain stem would do such a thing. Most of us have given up.

[MaryNGordon]

Does anyone know where the issue is in the FV formula? to recommend how to fix it?

[Sharrian]

Is this still true? As of today??

[Mel1959]

Is this still true? As of today??

We still do not recommend Fox Valley 32/40. The problem folks were having was that it didn’t move through their systems. It sat like concrete in their bellies and they’d eventually die. With that being said, I have heard of rehabbers who currently use it. I have not heard of any specific problems, but I also think they are mixing it with another formula, so not using it by itself.

I personally have never used it, and honestly I’d be a little hesitant, especially if using it by itself. Fox Valley 20/50 can be started around 3-4 weeks of age and I’ve never had any problems with it.

[VChristina]

Unfortunately, I bought this because I was using Esbilac and saw that it wasn't ok to use anymore. I bought this from the Henry's website and even talked to someone on the hotline that recommended it. My baby hasn't gone poop since this morning and is very bloated with a hard stomach, milk line isn't going away. I have tried several warm baths and have been giving her .05 ml of warm spring water every hour. She pooped one little piece in the bath but that's it. I have also given her some infant gas drops twice. I feel so bad about this because she had been doing so well on the Esbilac. She was 30 grams when I got her a week ago and weighed 48.5 this evening, she is approximately 2 weeks. Does anyone have any more suggestions?

[Nancy in New York]

Unfortunately, I bought this because I was using Esbilac and saw that it wasn't ok to use anymore. I bought this from the Henry's website and even talked to someone on the hotline that recommended it. My baby hasn't gone poop since this morning and is very bloated with a hard stomach, milk line isn't going away. I have tried several warm baths and have been giving her .05 ml of warm spring water every hour. She pooped one little piece in the bath but that's it. I have also given her some infant gas drops twice. I feel so bad about this because she had been doing so well on the Esbilac. She was 30 grams when I got her a week ago and weighed 48.5 this evening, she is approximately 2 weeks. Does anyone have any more suggestions?

I'm sorry this is happening. Many people that use the FV32/40 also use it 1/2 and 1/2 in conjunction with another product, such as Zoologic 33/40.
https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/products/zoologic-milk-matrix-33-40-24-oz?_pos=358&_sid=802cca838&_ss=r

Take a look at this link and follow the directions carefully. If you have any questions, let us know.
Good luck with your little one, and please keep us posted.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?60554-HOW-TO-POSSIBLY-UNDO-THE-DAMAGE-OF-FOX-VALLEY-32-40

[island rehabber]

*sigh* it truly pains me to see that FV 32/40 is still NOT A TRUSTWORTHY OR SAFE PRODUCT.

Please do as Nancy recommends above and follow the protocol -- it works and it can save your little one.

[Chirps]

Following this thread, it occurs to me that maybe there should be a top-of-page warning banner about FV 32/40 and pinkies, like the Esbilac one? Of course it won't help anyone who reads TSB after buying and using it.

Also, I see that contacting Fox Valley has been an exercise in frustration. What about Henry's? Would they be willing to stop recommending FV 32/40 for pinkies? Surely they have the respect for all the people "in the trenches" of rehab to listen to you all and change their directives on that product?

VChristina I am hoping your baby can be turned around.

[VChristina]

I fed her water all night and she had a small poop this morning in her bath. Her belly seems a little less hard, more squishy this morning. She has lost a gram as of this morning. I am attaching some pictures to get some opinions about it. Does her belly look normal?

[Mel1959]

I’m no expert, but it still looks a little hard and the skin looks taut. Follow the protocol that Nancy sent you....it works. Continue to flush her system and don’t feed her until her milk line has gone down. Do you have any infant gasX? You can give a drop of that to help with the bloat. Her milk line is still clearly visible.

[VChristina]

I've been giving her the infant Mylicon gas drops when she gets her water.

Thanks,

Christina

[VChristina]

Her milk line finally went away and she pooped a lot of small dark pellets. I'm so happy that she finally digested all that junk. I'm going to start her on the HGMF+ diluted with water and then gradually decrease the water. Thanks for all your help, I was so sick with worry. Hopefully things are going to be good now.

[Mel1959]

I’m so relieved to hear the good news. :dance The HMGF+ is good until she’s about 4 weeks old, then she needs to be transitioned to Fox Valley 20/50. You can safely use the 20/50 formula. I have never had a problem with it. Don’t dilute her formula too much or for too long. I’m sure she could use the calories.

Great job on working to get her through this. :w00t

[Chirps]

Hooray! So happy to see GOOD news! Thanks for going the distance for your baby.

[VChristina]

Her bloat is completely gone but she doesn't want the formula at all and will fight taking it. Could it be because it tastes different than the 32/40 one? She will take a little at a time but she's not happy about it and will push away. I thought she might be a little dehydrated so I did a few feeding of sugar water with the salt recipe but she still won't eat more than 2 ccs. She is at 47 grams after going down to 45.5 yesterday but she was at 48.5 when the bloat started. I don't think she has AP because she is really active and no clicking. I would like opinions about her weight and how she looks as well as age. I think she is between 2 to 2.5 weeks. Let me know if I should post this in another area. 315997315996315995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hjlkz0yimY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjY7KkYHTik

[SammysMom]

Please consider mixing fv 32/40 with esbilac with an expiration date of 10/21 or later and heavy cream. I have raised about 80 of them so far this year and had no issue. I used the zoologic 33/40, but it is hard to get right now. The Esbilac is very close and works nicely in the nutrition calculator.
Once on this formula it is used from pinkie to weaning and is far closer to mama's milk than fv 20/50.
If you have trouble with constipation again, try adding a bit of molasses to warm water and giving.

[Rtheimpaler]

What about for a 7 1/2 week old eastern gray?
Would you suggest fv 50/20 or esbialiac
Or a mix

[Spanky]

FV 20/50

[Exo]

Is this still a problem?

[SammysMom]

Is this still a problem?

It is not a problem of used on a blend. Using fv 32/40, esbilac regular puppy powder and heavy cream is very close to mama squirrel's milk. This blend can be safely used from birth to weaning. No need to switch formulas.

[Mel1959]

It is not a problem of used on a blend. Using fv 32/40, esbilac regular puppy powder and heavy cream is very close to mama squirrel's milk. This blend can be safely used from birth to weaning. No need to switch formulas.

What is your ratio of those ingredients?