View Full Version : WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to PINKIES!
Nancy in New York
07-16-2016, 07:15 AM
3 years ago, a discussion was started about pinkies not digesting Fox Valley 32/40 formula.
Since then this has occurred with older babies as well.
Seasoned rehabbers were losing babies, from undigested formula that sat in the babies tummies
like cement, with the milk line never disappearing.
I won't rehash the nightmares this caused.
Most people have since switched over to Powdered Puppy Esbilac for babies under 4 weeks
and some have continued with just the Esbilac until the squirrel is weaned.
This is just a reminder that Fox Valley 32/40 kills many/most pinkies, they cannot digest it.
We've been complacent about alerting members of this, thinking that most already knew.
I believe that after 3 years some felt the problem was rectified, (AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!)
because we don't bring it up.
However, in the past 3 years we have NOT recommended it to ANY new member, and this needs to be
mentioned again as a reminder.
This just happened again to a seasoned rehabber. She fed Fox Valley 32/40 and it sat like cement.
Three of the babies have died.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?54401-4-pinks-please-read
Discussion from 8/2013
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41878-FOX-VALLEY-amp-PINKIES-Discussion-Thread&highlight=Fox+Valley
IF you have already fed this, a long time member has come up with this protocol below that has helped save his babies.
The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).
island rehabber
07-16-2016, 07:21 AM
Thank you, Nancy. Having four pinkies right now, and watching their little bodies digest Esbilac just fine, thank you very much, reminded me of the horrors we all experienced with FV 32/40 a few seasons ago.
I believe we all became complacent or just frustrated at the fact that neither FV's owner nor a few others in the wildlife nutrition field seemed to take the problem seriously. Good rehabbers second-guess themselves; many of us thought it was our fault st first, not the formula. But it was SO many babies, and SO many good rehabbers, that there is no longer any doubt in my mind......
IT WAS THE FORMULA.
Mommaluvy
08-01-2016, 06:56 PM
Just got a new report from a seasoned good Rehabber in my area.. Our friend ( also a TSB user ) went on vacation and was using the 20/50 per seeing what happened to my pinks and reading old reports here.. . My awesome friend And past mentor was squirrel sitting .. She thought our mutual friend had run out of 20/50 and that's why she sent it ... and put them on 32/40 ( transistoned) ( she is a seasoned Rehabber and I love her.. She just did not do a lot of pinks this year and did not know - we got next to no squirrels this spring )
Anyhow.. She had the same problem I had.
Skeletonal 2 - 3 week olds! Mixed litter of 8 now having the same symptoms as mine!
Half have died. They had been thriving.
I told her what to do to save them.. Let's pray they remaining bounce back.
I am right in thinking this was reported to Nick?
And anyhow .. It seems to me that FV may now be killing older infants not just 10 day and younger.
BTW she did not notice any problems with her possums.. However I did. I lost all ten of my pinky possums on Fv32/40.
Nancy in New York
08-01-2016, 07:05 PM
Just got a new report from a seasoned good Rehabber in my area.. Our friend ( also a TSB user ) went on vacation and was using the 20/50 per seeing what happened to my pinks and reading old reports here.. . My awesome friend And past mentor was squirrel sitting .. She thought our mutual friend had run out of 20/50 and that's why she sent it ... and put them on 32/40 ( transistoned) ( she is a seasoned Rehabber and I love her.. She just did not do a lot of pinks this year and did not know - we got next to no squirrels this spring )
Anyhow.. She had the same problem I had.
Skeletonal 2 - 3 week olds! Mixed litter of 8 now having the same symptoms as mine!
Half have died. They had been thriving.
I told her what to do to save them.. Let's pray they remaining bounce back.
I am right in thinking this was reported to Nick?
And anyhow .. It seems to me that FV may now be killing older infants not just 10 day and younger.
BTW she did not notice any problems with her possums.. However I did. I lost all ten of my pinky possums on Fv32/40.
Oh you are definitely right about it killing even older babies.
That's why we say DO NOT USE FV 32/40 for anything, EVER!!!!!!!!!!
Nick was made aware of this by MANY people WAY back in 2013 when it started.
Still he chose to do nothing, and repeated that he was unaware of any problem. :shakehead
Praying for the little innocent lives that are struggling to survive. :boohoo
EDIT:
When we were told to go with the NEW Esbilac, in 2013 the member that mentioned the great results was a licensed Georgia rehabber.
She specifically said to look for the Dried Whey Protein Concentrate on the Powdered Puppy Esbilac.
I recently wrote this below:
I remember when this member came on, that I took note that she mentioned DRIED WHEY PROTEIN.
I compared it to the FV 32/40 which has dried milk protein, while the Fox Valley 20/50 has
DRIED WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE.
Both Esbilac and Fox Valley 20/50 have DRIED WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE.
Here's her post from 2013
I have had issues with FV setting up in the little ones guts and within a day or two they pass. I personally am not a fan of FV because Nick uses HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP in squirrel milk.......this is something that I think is causing poor growth rates and diarrhea. It is NOT something that I eat and I am certainly NOT giving it to my little guys!
Now I am going to say that I have recently (along with several other seasoned rehabbers) tried the NEW Esbilac that has probiotics and Dried Whey Protein Concentrate!!! You have to look on the label to make sure of what you are getting!!!
Finally once again I am having the fat necked babies that are flourishing......one of my girls gained 7 grams yesterday!!!
I know what Esbilac has been and done in the past but they have changed the formula, who knows if it is because of all the phone call and flack that they got from rehabbers.......all I can say is it has changed and changed for the better.
I am getting fantastic weight gains, much less poo (not nearly as hard as when they are on FV) which makes me think they are absorbing/utilizing more of the nutrients.
I have tried everything on the market.......FV, MultiMilk, Old Esbilac, Century 21, Zoologic......and every mixture in between.
So far this is giving me the results of the Old Esbilac and the Old MulitMilk.
In case anyone wants to try I am mixing 2:1 Water to powder and adding in 1/8 part cream once they are up to 25 grams.
**** I have not tried this on anything under 20 grams, so I am not speaking for the pinkies but I would have to think it is better and my little ones dying from FV!!!
Good Luck !!!
Christy
Nancy in New York
08-01-2016, 08:09 PM
I just took out the word pinkies in this thread's title,
just to make it clear.
Thank you Mommaluvy!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup
Mel1959
08-01-2016, 08:19 PM
So, just to be clear. It is just the FV 32/40 and NOT the FV 20/50 with regards to feeding to older squirrels?
Nancy in New York
08-01-2016, 08:38 PM
So, just to be clear. It is just the FV 32/40 and NOT the FV 20/50 with regards to feeding to older squirrels?
Yes the 20/50 is fine.
We even have members feeding babies with the FV 20/50
and the Powdered Puppy Esbilac.
I wouldn't feed the FV 32/40 to anything, regardless of age! :shakehead
Mommaluvy
08-01-2016, 09:46 PM
Yes the 20/50 is fine.
We even have members feeding babies with the FV 20/50
and the Powdered Puppy Esbilac.
I wouldn't feed the FV 32/40 to anything, regardless of age! :shakehead
Ditto. That's what I did last year.. Only the 20/50 . I never had the problem before this year. But my friend made a good point.. If the 32/40 problem is not being addressed .. Or if it's a mistake in formulating .. Cause it seems to be random .. Meaning some rehabbers lose tons of squirrels to this.. And others do not. Like her.. Never had this happen before and she has used 32/40 all along till now... Anyhow her point is..
If it's not being addressed how can we trust the 20/50 ?
SammysMom
08-01-2016, 11:31 PM
I think that the higher fat content keeps things moving along. I jave a group now who had trouble with esbilac not moving through. I added 1/3 fv 20/50 and they are pooping like champs.:w00t
Mel1959
08-01-2016, 11:56 PM
Ditto. That's what I did last year.. Only the 20/50 . I never had the problem before this year. But my friend made a good point.. If the 32/40 problem is not being addressed .. Or if it's a mistake in formulating .. Cause it seems to be random .. Meaning some rehabbers lose tons of squirrels to this.. And others do not. Like her.. Never had this happen before and she has used 32/40 all along till now... Anyhow her point is..
If it's not being addressed how can we trust the 20/50 ?
This was my concern, being able to trust 20/50? If there have been no reported problems with it then I assume it's fine. I am getting ready to open a new bag of 20/50, and it's a little concerning. I hope that it is the same formulation I've been using. And no one at Fox Valley admits there's a problem with the 32/40 formulation?
Nancy in New York
02-17-2017, 07:45 AM
With baby season quickly approaching, I'm giving this thread a little bump.
Seems that Fox Valley 32/40 has struck again.
This has been an ongoing problem so this is just a reminder,
it has NOT been corrected.
Does anyone know if this formula can be fed to baby opossums less than 45 grams of weight?? According to the label is the correct formula to feed but I just want to make sure.
Brittybich
09-26-2017, 07:54 AM
So glad I came across this. I use FV for fox kits with no issues but I'm now just starting to get into possums and squirrels. Many sites say to use FV.
Nancy in New York
09-26-2017, 08:02 AM
So glad I came across this. I use FV for fox kits with no issues but I'm now just starting to get into possums and squirrels. Many sites say to use FV.
The Fox Valley 20/50 is fine.
It's the 32/40 that sits like cement in their tummies. :(
island rehabber
09-26-2017, 08:23 AM
Although a few rehabbers have reported that they did use FV 32/40 this year on very young squirrels (less than 4 wks old) , I would not chance it myself after losing a dozen pinkies to it in one season AS Nancy said, it turns to cement in their tiny bellies, bloats and kills them.
The FV 20/50, on the other hand, is excellent.
Homefreesoon
03-15-2018, 11:04 AM
I am not clear on this, is this still an issue with fox valley 32/40? That is all our rehab center uses without any problems. I have been also using it without a problem. Another rehabber is using half and half esbilac. However last year all I used was Fox valley with no problems.
island rehabber
03-15-2018, 11:12 AM
I am not clear on this, is this still an issue with fox valley 32/40? That is all our rehab center uses without any problems. I have been also using it without a problem. Another rehabber is using half and half esbilac. However last year all I used was Fox valley with no problems.
Does your center use it on pinkies (2 weeks old or less)? The problem was with neonates -- especially 1 week old or younger.
Nancy in New York
03-15-2018, 11:43 AM
There have been problems with older babies as well.
Personally, I don't know of anyone that feeds FV 32/40 to any squirrels
regardless of age.
Homefreesoon
03-15-2018, 12:01 PM
My center does not take neonates, they hand them off to us the home rehabbers, but they give us the protocol. When I first started with my first squirrel I did a bunch of research and started her on Esbilac, she always had very hard poo. When I found the center they made me switch to fox valley and told me it was the esbilac, not to use it. When I started doing neonates I followed their advice and had no problems with the 32/40.
Starting my babies this year on 32/40, they came with diarrhea and I thought maybe it was the FV so I switched them to Esbilac Goats milk. Had a rehabber take care of them while I was gone and she switched them to Esbilac reg with pre/probiotics and half FV 32/40. Off and on bowel issues added antibiotics. Don't think the formula was the problem at all.
So why do they still use it here do you think?
island rehabber
10-23-2019, 12:23 PM
I just spent several days texting and talking with a new rehabber whose 6 wk old baby squirrel had suddenly taken a turn for the worst after being in robust good health for over two weeks in her care. Baby became constipated, then bloated, and then died slowly and painfully. The cause? "Cement gut" from Fox Valley 32/40. Symptoms were identical to what happened to my pinkies and hundreds of others since 2015, except this was an eyes opened baby already starting to nibble on solids. Just posting this sad story because I frankly will not be giving 32/40 to ANY baby squirrel at ANY age, ever. RIP, precious baby girl.
Mel1959
10-23-2019, 06:43 PM
This sucks! :klunk:sniff:sniff. Why was a 6 week old still on Esbilac 32:40?
island rehabber
10-23-2019, 10:23 PM
She had it in house already. Didn't think it would be a big deal.....:sadness
Samthesquiirrel
10-27-2019, 11:29 AM
I was wondering if the 20/50 is okay for baby squirrels? I saw another thing on esbilac being bad for them now so I’m trying to figure out what formula to use.
HRT4SQRLS
10-27-2019, 11:34 AM
Yes, FoxValley 20:50 is recommended for baby squirrels.
How old are your babies? If they are 3weeks or less there is a goat milk recipe that we can direct you to.
Please DO NOT USE ESBILAC!!! The warnings you have read about are true.
Mommasika
04-15-2020, 10:34 AM
I would like to have the goat milk recipe on hand just in case. I just received my order from Henry’s and got the 32/40. I shall be emailing and asking if I can return for an exchange of another bag of the 20/50.
Mommasika
HRT4SQRLS
04-15-2020, 03:00 PM
Homemade Goat Milk Formula Plus (HGMF+):
3 tablespoons goat milk
3 tablespoons plain yogurt
2 tablespoons heavy cream
½ egg yolk
BehrleJay
10-10-2020, 12:18 AM
Thank you, Nancy. Having four pinkies right now, and watching their little bodies digest Esbilac just fine, thank you very much, reminded me of the horrors we all experienced with FV 32/40 a few seasons ago.
I believe we all became complacent or just frustrated at the fact that neither FV's owner nor a few others in the wildlife nutrition field seemed to take the problem seriously. Good rehabbers second-guess themselves; many of us thought it was our fault st first, not the formula. But it was SO many babies, and SO many good rehabbers, that there is no longer any doubt in my mind......
IT WAS THE FORMULA.
Has anyone had this issue with 20/50? I'm having a similar issue now with 2 seven week olds. Thriving since I've had them but suddenly after about 2 weeks they seem bloated (2 of the litter, 1 first, 24 hours later another) stool is darker and harder and they're just lazy and not feeling well. I'm rehydrating now with a honey/pedialyte mix along with just water as they'll drink it. I cannot figure out what went wrong, they were PERFECT and then it's like someone flipped a switch.
Spanky
10-10-2020, 01:08 AM
I have heard of no issues with the FV 20/50. They are not clicking (Aspiration Pneumonia) are they?
BehrleJay
10-10-2020, 10:23 AM
I have heard of no issues with the FV 20/50. They are not clicking (Aspiration Pneumonia) are they?
No clicking, I've been listening every chance I get just to be sure.
Mel1959
10-10-2020, 12:01 PM
Don’t give pedialyte for longer than 24 hrs. After that time switch to plain sweetened water.
Give a drop of infant GasX for the bloat.
BehrleJay
10-10-2020, 12:07 PM
Don’t give pedialyte for longer than 24 hrs. After that time switch to plain sweetened water.
Give a drop of infant GasX for the bloat.
Oh I wondered if Gax X was safe! Thank you so much!!
Danie
07-16-2021, 12:31 PM
I know this thread is several years old, but I’m unsure of how to proceed with 2 babies who are 2 weeks, 2 days old. I’ve had them 5 days, they are doing well on the goat’s milk, full fat yogurt, heavy whipping cream, egg yolk recipe. Should I transition them to FV 32/40 now and then FV 20/50 when they reach 4 weeks? Or is it safe to keep them on the goats milk formula for a couple weeks?
Charley Chuckles
07-17-2021, 08:05 AM
This is what is recommended.
I just bought the Foxvalley ultra boost to have on hand just in case.
Hope this helps 👍
0-2 weeks: 1 part Ultra Boost to 3 parts Esbilac
2 weeks to eyes open: 1 parts Ultra Boost to 2 parts Esbilac
Eyes open to weaning: 2 parts Fox Valley 20/50 to one part UB*
*Heavy whipping cream can be used while waiting for the Ultra Boost to arrive
island rehabber
07-17-2021, 11:35 AM
I'm the cheerleader here for Esbilac and Ultra Boost 3:1 for babies 2 wks old and under, having had great success with my last 3 season's pinkies. HOWEVER, if your combination is working well for your babies, stick with it and transition to Esbilac-UltraBoost 2:1 at 4 weeks old. The GM combo gives many babies diarrhea, but certainly not all, so if yours are ok stick with it and transition later. Just my .02 !!
Danie
07-17-2021, 01:26 PM
Thanks! The GM formula has not caused diarrhea, thankfully. I think I may just keep them on it for a few days since I’ll be beginning the transition to FV 20/50 in just a little over a week. Their finder held them for 3 days before reaching out to me. After 72 hours on vanilla ensure, they were very bloated and had diarrhea (weighing 17 and 19 grams at ~10 days old.) They’re now up to 30/32 grams at ~2 weeks, 4 days. No more bloat or diarrhea, thankfully.
Garden71
08-25-2021, 10:20 AM
Last year we used 32/40 with UB and didn't have any problems. The only reason why we used 32/40 was because the esbilac we bought was all clumps and didn't mix well. We used it for 2 weeks then transitioned over to 20/50.
capdncrunchd
09-22-2024, 10:50 PM
Hello, it seems that this thread has gone quiet. I wanted to check to see if FV 32/40 is still a problem for anyone. We’ve been only rehabbing since about 2020, but have been using FV 32/40 since the start (as do the other rehabbers at our rescue. On the other had, we had been advised not to use esbilac as their formula has apparently changed over the last 2-3 years and it has causes issues with squirrels.
island rehabber
09-23-2024, 06:52 AM
Sadly, fellow rehabbers and I also found that the so-called new Esbilac, the one with the brown, black and white puppy on the front versus the old formula with the white puppy, is not good with baby squirrels. I had the same issue with clumping and then babies having not diarrhea but very mushy stringy poop. After losing over one dozen pinkies in a season back in 2015 I can't bring myself to use 32/40 ever again, but that might just be me. I would like to hear back from others like yourself who are using it without a problem but I would still be very careful using it with neonates and squirrels less than 2 weeks old.
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