View Full Version : Smurf Head Injury - Opinions Needed!
Spanky
07-11-2016, 01:44 PM
I found Smurfette in the RC cage this morning about 10 AM and he snout was swollen and bloodied. So I closed up the cage and went and got some Advil for her (I am out of Tramadol!), but she would not take it. She got agitated by my trying to give it to her, chattering tucking her head and biting. She moved around the cage enough that I could assess no other obvious injuries. But her pain is apparent. At the time I decided it was not worth the risk of further injury or agitation to continue to try to get her to take the Advil.
I think this is a new injury this morning, but coincidentally she has been spending time in the RC taking naps, etc. the past few days.
I left a pecan half coated with the Advil and went back to work.
I was out there a few minutes ago and she is very lethargic and sleeping hard. She had not touched her Advil/Pecan.
I am going to prep cage for her... I am leaning towards bring her inside and a smaller cage. It is in the low 90's her today (and the next few days) but we can get violent thunderstorms any given evening during the hot and humid summers. She has been out on her own 2 weeks now.
Opinions?
- Leave her in the release cage and keep and keep her under observation?
- Bring her inside into a smaller cage, force some Advil into her and keep and eye on her. Take her to vet based on observation or even how she responds to being brought in (e.g. if a vet visit might not be too traumatic)??
She is getting around okay earlier, no held tilt.. just the swelling in her nose and the bloodied nose.
I hate that I have a extremely important work conference call at 3:30PM Eastern!
Here is her original thread (I doubt any helpful info there but ya never know...)
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?53478-Singleton-at-Spanky-s&highlight=smurfette
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=275165&stc=1http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=275166&stc=1
DarkLies212
07-11-2016, 01:51 PM
Nothing to offer but positive vibes. Feel better Smurfette! :hug
DaSquirrelMom
07-11-2016, 01:55 PM
In the past year, I've seen two healthy-looking young squirrels with the birth defect of palate deformity and absent upper incisors. They were brought in to a wildlife rehab center because of their sneezing and bloody noses. At first, the licensed rehabber thought they had facial trauma. Make certain Smurf's bloody nose is not from her lower incisors being too long and jabbing up into her nasal cavity.
pappy1264
07-11-2016, 02:01 PM
I would bring her in. Poor baby, those white tears...ugh. Hopefully once in you can get some meds into her for pain.
TubeDriver
07-11-2016, 02:17 PM
I would try to get some clear views of her top and bottom teeth, inspect her carefully for visible injuries/punctures, bites etc. Afterwords, you will have a better idea of what the next step should be.
I hope it is minor? I wonder if she was getting bullied (which might explain why she returned to the RC recently) and maybe got bit in the snout?
Milo's Mom
07-11-2016, 02:20 PM
I'd bring her in and provide pain killer, anti-inflammatory and fluids. She looks like she needs some R&R and some love from her Daddy. IMHO
Spanky
07-11-2016, 02:29 PM
I would try to get some clear views of her top and bottom teeth, inspect her carefully for visible injuries/punctures, bites etc. Afterwords, you will have a better idea of what the next step should be.
I hope it is minor? I wonder if she was getting bullied (which might explain why she returned to the RC recently) and maybe got bit in the snout?
I see her out and about a lot, even last evening in her favorite tree to hang out in.., there is a flagstone path/steps leading to the lake under that... I do look for any indication of a fall. I found nothing unsurprisingly.
No punctures, bites or breaks... but an extremely tender mouth.
I would bring her in. Poor baby, those white tears...ugh. Hopefully once in you can get some meds into her for pain.
She is still refusing to take the Advil (grape). KT is going to bring home some berry flavor if she can find some. She has eaten some walnut pieces but avoids them if they have Advil on them. She won't let me near her mouth (again, very tender). What about Meloxicam: Do squirrels like that taste?
In the past year, I've seen two healthy-looking young squirrels with the birth defect of palate deformity and absent upper incisors. They were brought in to a wildlife rehab center because of their sneezing and bloody noses. At first, the licensed rehabber thought they had facial trauma. Make certain Smurf's bloody nose is not from her lower incisors being too long and jabbing up into her nasal cavity.
Good thoughts... I can say that just two days ago she bit me pretty hard, my reward for not having any treats to give her. (Lesson learned). I was not looking for issues, but I got a good look at her "bite" and all seemed okay. I will check her teeth when I can, but like I said her mouth is very tender. And she was released only a few weeks ago and her teeth had been perfect up until release.
Milo's Mom
07-11-2016, 02:36 PM
Yes squirrels like Metacam. It's sweet and has a bit of a honey taste.
Spanky
07-11-2016, 02:39 PM
Yes squirrels like Metacam. It's sweet and has a bit of a honey taste.
OK, I will try see if she'll take that!
Edit: First time I have every had a squirrel not to like the grape Advil!
Spanky
07-11-2016, 02:46 PM
Yes squirrels like Metacam. It's sweet and has a bit of a honey taste.
Success! Metacam on board. Thank You!
Spanky
07-11-2016, 02:55 PM
She is her former “juvie” cage inside. She ate a few pieces of walnut but avoided any with Advil. She drank some water too. But then started getting antsy in the cage so I moved it from my office to where the cage was located when she was a "guest" here, uncovered it for a few minutes so she could see she was back in a “familiar” area. Covered the cage back up and she settled into the cubby. :thumbsup
She was much more alert and bright eyed after a few minutes activity… not sure she ate or drank enough to make much of a difference.
As per previous post I was able to semi-force some Metacam into her mouth in the middle of making this response. She squeaked a bit in protest but I held her firmly and got the meds into her mouth (and she did not spit them out!).
Hoping this is just a bump and she just needs a place to safely recover for a few days. And she’ll get lots of love from her squaddy! (I can see I am going to need more cages! :shakehead).
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 03:05 PM
She is her former “juvie” cage inside. She ate a few pieces of walnut but avoided any with Advil. She drank some water too. But then started getting antsy in the cage so I moved it from my office to where the cage was located when she was a "guest" here, uncovered it for a few minutes so she could see she was back in a “familiar” area. Covered the cage back up and she settled into the cubby. :thumbsup
She was much more alert and bright eyed after a few minutes activity… not sure she ate or drank enough to make much of a difference.
As per previous post I was able to semi-force some Metacam into her mouth in the middle of making this response. She squeaked a bit in protest but I held her firmly and got the meds into her mouth (and she did not spit them out!).
Hoping this is just a bump and she just needs a place to safely recover for a few days. And she’ll get lots of love from her squaddy! (I can see I am going to need more cages! :shakehead).
Just seeing this now Spanky.
Glad that she's inside and that you were able to medicate her.
Are you going by the old dosing or the new for the Metacam?
I told you before...................you DO need more cages! :tap :hug
stosh2010
07-11-2016, 03:24 PM
Maybe try mashing the nut with some honey ( and meds) --make a small ball--and offer an EASY-to-EAT treat ??
sore mouth=no chewing
Daisey007
07-11-2016, 03:59 PM
If you don't see any exterior wounds (and the teeth look OK), I'd be thinking about a fall. It looks very painful and it appears to be swollen on up towards her eyes.
Praying for her...:Love_Icon
Milo's Mom
07-11-2016, 04:08 PM
Are you going by the old dosing or the new for the Metacam?
Is there a new approved method for dosing Metacam...other than WMB? :thinking
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 04:15 PM
Is there a new approved method for dosing Metacam...other than WMB? :thinking
WBM Second edition is 0.1 mg/kg
WMB Third edition is 1 mg/kg for rodents.
My vet doses twice daily instead of once.
Post #32
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?53370-Wild-Mammal-Babies-3rd-edition/page2&highlight=wild+mammal+babies
Milo's Mom
07-11-2016, 04:25 PM
WBM Second edition is 0.1 mg/kg
WMB Third edition is 1 mg/kg for rodents.
My vet doses twice daily instead of once.
Post #32
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?53370-Wild-Mammal-Babies-3rd-edition/page2&highlight=wild+mammal+babies
Thank you. I will note the change (I've dosed twice a day since MJ...just never talked about it cause I didn't want to start an argument...)
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 04:29 PM
Thank you. I will note the change (I've dosed twice a day since MJ...just never talked about it cause I didn't want to start an argument...)
Yeah, I've done the same per vets instructions.
When dosing on the board, I do it according to the book.
Spanky
07-11-2016, 04:32 PM
Maybe try mashing the nut with some honey ( and meds) --make a small ball--and offer an EASY-to-EAT treat ??
sore mouth=no chewing
Thanks for the suggestion Stosh! She is eating / chewing nuts but turning her nose up at anything with the Advil. I will keep this in mind if she refuses her meds again!
Spanky
07-11-2016, 04:43 PM
Are you going by the old dosing or the new for the Metacam?
I went with the "high end" of the old dosing (0.2mg/kg) and planned on twice a day dosing. But I did the calc and did not use the WMB chart as a guide.
Having said that... and I went back and skimmed... I never saw where anyone was comfy with the WMB III dose of 1mg/kg for rodents: Am I wrong? :dono So I stuck with the "we have seen good results" with the old dosing...
Nancy.. when you dose by the book, which book (edition?) are you using? :grin3
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 04:51 PM
I went with the "high end" of the old dosing (0.2mg/kg) and planned on twice a day dosing. But I did the calc and did not use the WMB chart as a guide.
Having said that... and I went back and skimmed... I never saw where anyone was comfy with the WMB III dose of 1mg/kg for rodents: Am I wrong? :dono So I stuck with the "we have seen good results" with the old dosing...
Nancy.. when you dose by the book, which book (edition?) are you using? :grin3
Well up until recently strictly the old book.
BUT, since the new recommendations, I haven't needed to dose, so I was unsure.
I agree I don't think we came to a concensus. BUT did you see the dosing all over the place in the rat guide? :eek
I would definitely dose the old book for now, until we figure this out.
You know that the 0.2 mg/kg is the loading dose right?
Typically we break that amount in half and only give once after the loading dose.
My vet gave a loading dose and the cut the loading dose in half for the following days,
BUT doses it twice daily.
SO she was basically getting the "loading dose" every single day.
Milo's Mom
07-11-2016, 05:12 PM
Well up until recently strictly the old book.
BUT, since the new recommendations, I haven't needed to dose, so I was unsure.
I agree I don't think we came to a concensus. BUT did you see the dosing all over the place in the rat guide? :eek
I would definitely dose the old book for now, until we figure this out.
You know that the 0.2 mg/kg is the loading dose right?
Typically we break that amount in half and only give once after the loading dose.
My vet gave a loading dose and the cut the loading dose in half for the following days,
BUT doses it twice daily.
SO she was basically getting the "loading dose" ever single day.
This is exactly how I've been told to dose and have been doing so for maybe the last 5-6 seasons. Prior to that I always followed WMB but I always felt that it wasn't enough and wore off too soon. Once I took a leap of faith and went to twice a day (loading dose per day) I felt it worked sooo much better and provided the comfort we were wishing for. It all changed and evolved around the time of MJ or immediately thereafter.
Spanky
07-11-2016, 05:22 PM
You know that the 0.2 mg/kg is the loading dose right?
Typically we break that amount in half and only give once after the loading dose.
My vet gave a loading dose and the cut the loading dose in half for the following days,
BUT doses it twice daily.
SO she was basically getting the "loading dose" ever single day.
Got it. As always, a big THANK YOU! :thumbsup
Spanky
07-11-2016, 05:24 PM
Just gave Smurfette her dinner and she is doing so much better after just a few hours! Still swollen, but much more active.. even antsy, so I had to cover her cage back up.
Keep your fingers crossed but she seems to be doing great and just needs a few days to recuperate.
Spanky
07-11-2016, 10:18 PM
Smurfette ate quite a bit tonight including her HHB, some veggies and a bit of fruit. I was so impressed, she ate like she had not spent the last two weeks in the wild eating... well, not HHB, broccoli, and the like!
Just before sunset she started banging around and chewing at her cage wires. She wanted outside very badly. I was heartbroken and scared for her at the same time... it was 20 minutes before she calmed down.
She was so pathetic this morning, in obvious pain, bloodied and swollen. And I did freak a bit when I went out around noon to her sleeping so hard... I was not sure she was sleeping. And she cooperated entirely when I brought her in (everything except the medication part!). She has not even bitten me even though I ditched the gloves because they seemed to be freaking her out.
I don't know what to expect in the morning... calm and recovering, or trapped and panicked!
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 11:12 PM
Smurfette ate quite a bit tonight including her HHB, some veggies and a bit of fruit. I was so impressed, she ate like she had not spent the last two weeks in the wild eating... well, not HHB, broccoli, and the like!
Just before sunset she started banging around and chewing at her cage wires. She wanted outside very badly. I was heartbroken and scared for her at the same time... it was 20 minutes before she calmed down.
She was so pathetic this morning, in obvious pain, bloodied and swollen. And I did freak a bit when I went out around noon to her sleeping so hard... I was not sure she was sleeping. And she cooperated entirely when I brought her in (everything except the medication part!). She has not even bitten me even though I ditched the gloves because they seemed to be freaking her out.
I don't know what to expect in the morning... calm and recovering, or trapped and panicked!
Hoping for calm and recovering.
Glad she's feeling better Spanky. This is for her own good.
She was in rough shape, and while they heal quick, sometimes
they just need an extra night or two to really feel better.
If you keep her in tomorrow try covering her cage on 3 sides and see
if that calms her.
If you release her again, would you do so from the RC?
If so, do it when there typically are no squirrels around.
Good Night little Smurf Head.:blowkiss
Spanky
07-11-2016, 11:23 PM
When I do release her it will be from the release cage. I had actually been finding her in the RC the past few days (sans injuries!) so it seems a place where she feels safe.
I figure I will just see how she is doing tomorrow and based on her try to decide what the right thing to do for her. It did storm her again for a few minutes about 45 minutes after she had settled down (not hardly a sound from her cage though during the storm).
Nancy in New York
07-11-2016, 11:31 PM
When I do release her it will be from the release cage. I had actually been finding her in the RC the past few days (sans injuries!) so it seems a place where she feels safe.
I figure I will just see how she is doing tomorrow and based on her try to decide what the right thing to do for her. It did storm her again for a few minutes about 45 minutes after she had settled down (not hardly a sound from her cage though during the storm).
Yeah, no need to determine the course tonight.
Tomorrow the answer may be crystal clear as to what to do.
Glad she was inside during the storm, and that she was settled. :Love_Icon
Spanky
07-12-2016, 08:37 PM
Well, here is how Smurfette welcomed me this morning. Is it time to play?!?!? Is it? huh?:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=275203&stc=1
It was like just a few weeks ago when she was still inside... I am sure she was expecting some "out of cage time".. so she got it. I have to admit I failed to consider Step was already enjoying his "out of cage time" but everything was fine and it was obviously they knew one another, even if interaction was limited. If anything Step was trying to assert that the cage room was now his domain, and Smurfette simple evaded and ignored....
She was much more interested in what was happening outside and was extremely uncooperative about returning to her cage. She is not 100% but she is 90+ %.. so later in the morning she moved out to the release cage:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=275204&stc=1
She is in a cubby because I had to put one in there for Marley.. he never took to the wooden nest boxes. I guess everything works out, she loves using it as a hammock.
Mid-afternoon I went to check on her and she was taking a siesta.. I gave her some scritches and she was so laid back I decided to see if she'd let me look at her teeth and mouth. And she did! Everything looks perfect with her teeth and the roof of her mouth.
Her snout is still swollen, but no mouth breathing. She still "phhhhttttts" every so often, but less frequently, I assume to clear her nasal passages of any fluid / dried blood.
She was very energetic just a bit ago when I wen to visit... she had settled into a nest box and I disturbed her and she took it as an invitation to have a play session (how could I say no?!?! :dono).
A day or two more before I re-open the portal, but she is doing ever so well!
Nancy in New York
07-13-2016, 08:08 AM
Perfect post Spanky!
I love the fact that she wanted to play while out in the release cage.
She's your baby. :)
Good plan with keeping her a day or two more.
At least she seems quite content! :serene
redwuff
07-13-2016, 08:11 AM
So sorry for the school of hard knocks for your baby. She looks great! Seems she has been making the adjustment well other than this.
Trysh
Spanky
07-13-2016, 08:26 AM
At least she seems quite content!
While she was not any problems with her being inside, it was obvious she'd much rather be on the outside! So yes, I think she is much happier out there! :thumbsup
So sorry for the school of hard knocks for your baby. She looks great! Seems she has been making the adjustment well other than this.
Trysh
I am really happy she chose to hunker down in the RC after her injury... and that I left a dish in there I had to retrieve. I think I may have missed her curled atop of the cubby that morning had I not had a reason to go inside. She was not moving at all and in fact it took some time for me to figure out exactly who it was.... smart girl!! :great
Spanky
07-14-2016, 03:02 PM
Smurfette was looking great yesterday and able to make quick work f getting into an unshelled pecan, so it seems her mouth if not too tender to crack nuts. This morning she opened a walnut and so I went ahead and re-opened the RC portal.
I have checked a few times and she is still hanging out inside the cage.. napping in the cubby, pancaked on boxes and shelves. I KNOW she KNOWS where the portal (3" Squirrel hole) is located and that it IS open! Seems she is happy to hang out at least a while longer! I sure hope she is reluctant because some bully had been picking on her!
DarkLies212
07-14-2016, 03:05 PM
Maybe she's claimed the RC for herself :grin2 And that was her plan all along! :grin2
Nancy in New York
07-14-2016, 03:08 PM
Maybe she's claimed the RC for herself :grin2 And that was her plan all along! :grin2
:rolf :highfive
squirrelfriend
07-17-2016, 11:25 AM
This story reminds me of my Steve. He was chewing at the corner of cage and got his teeth stuck. I was right there when it happened and immediately helped him get loose so he wasn't like that long. Before I had gotten him out he was thrashing around like crazy trying to get out. He was in full out panic. His face swelled up so much I could hardly recognize him. He was fine in a couple days or so. Took a few days for all the swelling to be gone.
You our mentioned yours chewing frantically at the bars. Maybe this is what happened to your little guy?
wishing him a speedy recovery.
Shewhosweptforest
07-17-2016, 12:10 PM
You know... I just love when they are safe and sound in the release cage....in fact I'd love if they did claim it and live there...:thinking but boy that'd make for a lot of release cages :eek glad she's doing better....and what a sweet laid back gal :klunk could just eat her up :blowkiss
Spanky
07-17-2016, 12:42 PM
This story reminds me of my Steve. He was chewing at the corner of cage and got his teeth stuck. I was right there when it happened and immediately helped him get loose so he wasn't like that long. Before I had gotten him out he was thrashing around like crazy trying to get out. He was in full out panic. His face swelled up so much I could hardly recognize him. He was fine in a couple days or so. Took a few days for all the swelling to be gone.
You our mentioned yours chewing frantically at the bars. Maybe this is what happened to your little guy?
wishing him a speedy recovery.
Thanks for checking in on my Smurfette. She had been released successfully almost three weeks since she had been in the RC. In fact Marley was released after her. So I do not suspect the injury was from chewing the cage... she was chewing (briefly) that first night back inside. I had decided to move her inside to a smaller cage to keep an eye on her and prevent falls, but put her into the RC the next morning since she was doing very well.
I am still cannot be sure if this was simply a fall / accident or something more nefarious like her being bullied? :dono
But she is back in the trees now... I am amazed at how quickly she recovered (4 days). I believe I came across her in the RC during the worst of it... smart girl coming home for help! :clap
She has built a drey not far from the RC, but I am debating if she abandoned it or still plans on finishing it? It does not look completed to me. She did not enter it that I witnessed the last 2 evenings (she started it 3 days ago).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.