Tumbleweed stopped breathing

[Sara in NW MS]

I had just finished giving TW a bath and I was holding him. It had been 15 minutes or so and all the sudden he starts making this weird whistling sound. I thought he was dreaming so I started to record it thinking it was cute. Then he kept doing it over and over and I got a little concerned. I thought he was asleep and when I went to wake him his head fell backwards and his mouth was open. He wasn't breathing. I freaked out. Started to rub his chest and started talking to him loud. After 40 seconds or so he took a breath and started to move.
He seems ok for now but I have no idea what happened. I'm a little freaked out now.

This is the sound he was making when I thought it was cute, before it got scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzLc8AH8sfA

[stepnstone]

My God Sara that's terrible! You must be terrified...
Poor little TW, my heart just breaks for him!
How is he acting now? How are you? :grouphug

[Sara in NW MS]

He seems to be ok as long as I hold him. If I put him in his bed he screams and won't stop. I keep checking him to make sure he's breathing, scared that's going to happen again. I almost lost it when he wouldn't start breathing for me. It took everything I had to keep my composure and do what I needed to do.
He seemed extra cranky tonight but it was crazy around here and everything was off. So I assumed he was fussy because of that. Now I'm not sure. He's not acting like he's in pain or anything like that so that's good.

[lukaslolamaus]

Sara :grouphug oh how scary how are you and Tumbleweed :Love_Icon? I'm so sorry this happened :grouphug I wasn't able to finish the video.
Praying for the two of you :grouphug

[astra]

Oh Goodness
:grouphug poor little TW :grouphug Sara

[stepnstone]

He seems to be ok as long as I hold him. If I put him in his bed he screams and won't stop. I keep checking him to make sure he's breathing, scared that's going to happen again. I almost lost it when he wouldn't start breathing for me. It took everything I had to keep my composure and do what I needed to do.
He seemed extra cranky tonight but it was crazy around here and everything was off. So I assumed he was fussy because of that. Now I'm not sure. He's not acting like he's in pain or anything like that so that's good.

Maybe that actually was the cause and the "confusion" caused too much stress for him?
Being challenged I would imagine he does process things differently when there's "change"
in his environment. Fright can cause one to stop breathing...
It's been obvious he feels secure and protected with you holding him. :Love_Icon
Saying a prayer for you both tonight... stay strong for the little guy Sara.
....and for you.http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

[pappy1264]

OMG....how is he this morning? Praying very hard for this little man. He has been through so much, it is heartbreaking. :Love_Icon

[lennysmom]

Oh Sara, how terrifying!! I really hope he is ok this morning.:Love_Icon
Praying for you both.:grouphug:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

This is terrible. What the heck caused this?
Sara, I've been concerned about little TW and the anesthesia
he had while at the vets. How long was he "out"? Do you know
what they used?
I know that all squirrels react differently, but ever since his
visit, isn't he sleeping a lot more, and other changes as well?

Was is he suppose to get the blood work this week?
We may need to rethink that for now, but for SURE
all of the vets need to be informed of this latest event
with little Tumbleweed........poor precious baby. :Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

T'Weedie.....please be okay..........:(
I wonder if this was a type of seizure?
Those almost sounded like little pinky squeaks -- when they are stressed.

[Sara in NW MS]

He's okay so far. He made it through the night thank goodness!
I'm not going to subject him to blood work today. That's going to be a very stressful ordeal anyway and after last night's episode... I'm scared to put him through that. The vet already told me it was going to be a lot of blood for such a little guy. That has haunted my thoughts since last week.
I'm not comfortable with taking him in for that. He's sleeping right now and loving the fact that he got to sleep on my chest with me rubbing his little head. I think I slept with my eyes open lol.
I'll let everyone know how he's doing in a little while. Gotta head to work so Lauri and Jordan have TW.
I'm still shaking from the scare last night.

[TubeDriver]

Poor Tumbleweed. How terrifing that must have been.:(

I agree with Nancy that any anesthesia must be approached with extra caution. His little brain is probably extra sensative to the effects of anesthesia.

:grouphugTumbleweed:grouphug

[Lighten-Up]

Praying for full health and wholeness for sweet Tumbleweed, and for peace for you Mom. :Love_Icon :hug :grouphug

[lennysmom]

I too am SO relieved that you are holding off on the bloodwork. Like Nancy and TD, the anesthesia makes me very nervous as well, especially with all of his other issues. I had a huge scare with Lenny once when a vet sedated him - I think they might have given him a little too much, but it took him forever to come around and I have never been so scared in my life! After that, he acted oddly for about a week or two afterwards, sleeping more then he had been. I have been told it's best to wait as long as possible between sedations as the effects from one can last for weeks aftetwards. I believe everything does happen for a reason.. with as many prayers as are being said for that boy, I think perhaps it was The Creator's way of letting you know not to do the bloodwork today. And I'm so glad TW has a mama that listens to him too.:Love_Icon

[stosh2010]

T.W.
Be Well...................Little DUDE.

[DarkLies212]

:hug The two of you can't seem to ever catch a break :hug I hope whatever happened was a one time thing...

[Sara in NW MS]

The vet that did the CT told me she gassed him for less than 10 minutes. I've felt like he has been acting different ever since that day. I figured it would take a few days for everything to go back to normal but that's just not happening. He's also taking new meds so that could also be related to the way he's been acting. We know TW metabolizes differently than a regular squirrel. I've noticed he doesn't tolerate steroids well these days, so maybe the pred is starting to build up in his little body?
The local vet that told me he could do the blood work said that he could do it without having to use anesthesia if it looked like TW would be still and not bite. Tw has never bitten anyone and its easy to hold him still but I'm not sure about doing something like that to him without having some kind of sedation. The last thing I want is to hurt him. I definitely don't want him losing a lot of blood right now either. The blood work will have to wait until I feel comfortable enough to take him. I know beggars can't be choosers when it comes to those of us who don't have a vet we can take our squirrels to... but I'm not gonna settle for just any vet because they say they will help. I was really wanting to meet this guy and see how he handled TW and so on. If I felt the slightest feeling in my gut about him or a tad bit of uneasiness with the visit, I'd take TW out of there in a heartbeat. Even if that means taking another day off and driving to Little Rock instead of driving 30 miles north.
I'm just so thankful he is looking better today. He almost gave me a heart attack last night.

[Shewhosweptforest]

I'm sorry Sara....I don't know how you do it...so much emotion and stress...then off to work you go, while your mind and heart are still at home :Love_Icon.... I guess TW's love pulls you through...just as your's pulls him through:Love_Icon I really hate to say it...but his squeaks sounded like distress :sadness maybe the combination of pred and sedation is slowing down his systems :dono also I don't think the length of time they are sedated is as important as how deep they take them down. I've only seen one squirrel during the sedation process. Momma Squirrel had a vet tech with a mask....and as the vet worked on her teeth (trimming) as soon as Momma started waking up....they would stop and give her a few whiffs until she relaxed. So she appeared to be on the verge of waking up the entire time....then when they were done the vet tech massaged and stimulated her until she came out of it....even so she was very drowsy and didn't come out of her nestbox for the rest of the evening :dono unfortunately I don't think you can afford to stop the meds...it's "you're damned if you do and damned if you don't" :shakehead maybe some gentle massage time.....and maybe reduce the pred slightly :dono I would definitely send the video to the vets and the account of what happened. I pray they have an answer and solution :please

[Mel1959]

Hi Sara, I'm just now reading about TW's major scare. I am so sorry you had to go through that. I think you should share all this with Dr. E. Also, ask her about the blood drawing. I thought I heard her say that it is a more risky procedure, but I don't know if she was referring to drawing blood from Joey and his smaller size or not. Anyway, I'm glad TW Is doing better. I hope you are doing better, too. :grouphug:grouphug

[Sara in NW MS]

You're right the vet said it would be rough on him. He would have to take three vials of blood and that's a lot for such a little guy. He also said he would have to get it from the jugular which scares the hell out of me.

He's been fine the last couple days. I hope it stays that way. I know getting his blood is less risky than surgery but I really don't want to put him through that right now. The neurosurgeon wants the blood work up to make sure there isn't an infection. I just can't see me putting him through that at this time. He is starting to get back to normal now and I'd like for him to continue getting better. Decisions decisions.

[TubeDriver]

I think you did the right thing. I am always afraid when an animal has to be put under. Although in theory a blood stick poses little risk, anesthesia is always a risk.

[PennyCash]

You're right the vet said it would be rough on him. He would have to take three vials of blood and that's a lot for such a little guy. He also said he would have to get it from the jugular which scares the hell out of me.

He's been fine the last couple days. I hope it stays that way. I know getting his blood is less risky than surgery but I really don't want to put him through that right now. The neurosurgeon wants the blood work up to make sure there isn't an infection. I just can't see me putting him through that at this time. He is starting to get back to normal now and I'd like for him to continue getting better. Decisions decisions.

Sara I'm sorry that I'm just catching up with TW. OMG How scary all of this is. TW and your family are always in my prayers.
I'm not sure if I would want to put him under at this time either and I'm with you in checking out this other vet. If ANYTHING even gives you so much as a tingle of unease leave. I can say firsthand that a caring vet is worth the distance traveled over a Blasé vet. I do wonder though if they could take the blood without sedation and only take one vial every couple of days giving Tumbleweed time to recover in between? Yes, it would be a longer process but hopefully safer. :grouphug

[Rocky1]

The vet that did the CT told me she gassed him for less than 10 minutes. I've felt like he has been acting different ever since that day. I figured it would take a few days for everything to go back to normal but that's just not happening. He's also taking new meds so that could also be related to the way he's been acting. We know TW metabolizes differently than a regular squirrel. I've noticed he doesn't tolerate steroids well these days, so maybe the pred is starting to build up in his little body?
The local vet that told me he could do the blood work said that he could do it without having to use anesthesia if it looked like TW would be still and not bite. Tw has never bitten anyone and its easy to hold him still but I'm not sure about doing something like that to him without having some kind of sedation. The last thing I want is to hurt him. I definitely don't want him losing a lot of blood right now either. The blood work will have to wait until I feel comfortable enough to take him. I know beggars can't be choosers when it comes to those of us who don't have a vet we can take our squirrels to... but I'm not gonna settle for just any vet because they say they will help. I was really wanting to meet this guy and see how he handled TW and so on. If I felt the slightest feeling in my gut about him or a tad bit of uneasiness with the visit, I'd take TW out of there in a heartbeat. Even if that means taking another day off and driving to Little Rock instead of driving 30 miles north.
I'm just so thankful he is looking better today. He almost gave me a heart attack last night.


You can always honestly tell the vet that this is a famous precious squirrel with many fans. Please take EXCELLENT care of him. I would also ask (as you may have done), "He is noises sensitive and gets scared easily. Would it be possible, if he has to stay in the vet, for him to be placed away from noisy animals? And just to make sure, is that area the same temperature as the rest of the building? Thank you."

I'm so glad that TW had you during the breathing episode. You may have saved his life again.

[Rocky1]

The others might have already caught on to this, but I wonder if that was a seizure due to one of his medications lowering the seizure threshold. My sense is that TW needs a temperature controlled quiet comfy place and plenty of love and supervision right now. Medication may or may not need to be tapered off. Sorry if this is redundant.

[Chickenlegs]

One cliff hanger after another--so the saga of Tumbleweed goes. Knowing he's as fragile as he is makes your intuition the best of all gauges as to caring for OUR dearest son