strange biting

[RamiS]

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday, I took Moby my 1.8 year old fox squirrel for an hour ride as maintenance had to fix something at my place, he was fine, when we came back home it was 10 pm, he chilled for a bit then went to bed, he woke up today and was fine, took his block, played with me most of the day, he took a nap, woke up played some more in the living room, he was licking something stuck on the carpet I am sure it was dirt dragged from outside as it was raining last night, I was trying to get him to leave it alone, he wouldn't, so I sprayed some water on him to move (as I usually do when he dosent listen) he bite me twice, then I tried to take him to his room he climbed on me and he bite me again on my neck:tap

I put him in his bed, pet him for a minute or so, then he tried to bite me again:tap And now he went to bed as usual.

he never did this ever, I am sorry for the detailed article, but I had to do it this way to get a more closer answer.

Okay, well I hope someone can give some expert input on this subject.

Thank you all:grin3

[SammysMom]

I have had this experience (minus the water because I already know Sammy would attack if I even considered something like that). I think it is a smell of a female or another squirrel from outdoors that gets them all fired up. When they are intent upon smelling something it is best to leave them alone. I guess you know that now though...:grin3

[stepnstone]

Hello Everyone,

Yesterday, I took Moby my 1.8 year old fox squirrel for an hour ride as maintenance had to fix something at my place, he was fine, when we came back home it was 10 pm, he chilled for a bit then went to bed, he woke up today and was fine, took his block, played with me most of the day, he took a nap, woke up played some more in the living room, he was licking something stuck on the carpet I am sure it was dirt dragged from outside as it was raining last night, I was trying to get him to leave it alone, he wouldn't, so I sprayed some water on him to move (as I usually do when he dosent listen) he bite me twice, then I tried to take him to his room he climbed on me and he bite me again on my neck:tap
I put him in his bed, pet him for a minute or so, then he tried to bite me again:tap And now he went to bed as usual.
he never did this ever, I am sorry for the detailed article, but I had to do it this way to get a more closer answer.
Okay, well I hope someone can give some expert input on this subject.
Thank you all:grin3
And there's the problem.... you pissed him off! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/xd-laugh.gif
I simply yelled at my squirrel once for biting my dog and not only did she repeatedly attack me, she stayed
so mad at me I had to leave her in her locked cage for 3 days for her to get over herself which she did but
for those 3 days she charged the bars anytime I went near it!
Hopefully your guy will have a different attitude tomorrow so I'd suggest just letting him be but in the meantime
I would wash that spot on the carpet real well as to not leave any trace to whatever it was.

[astra]

never used water spraying on squirrels.

But what I learned from cats is that using water spraying as a means to "set boundaries" is not a good idea.
It creates hostility and fear in the animal and sooner or later the latter will react aggressively.
Besides, such means of "discipline" prevent closer bonding and negatively affect trust because the animal comes to associate YOU with something unpleasant and undesirable. YOU become the source of their discomfort.

There are things that you can sort of work around helping your sq to know not to do, but most things - you cannot force a sq do something. It's a wild animal so for generations genetically squirrels never "learned" to obey humans (unlike dogs and cats).
But even with cats there is a limit as to what you can expect, b/c you cannot change the instinctual needs of animal.

Which means with sqs - human needs to understand their nature, their needs (foraging, exploring new things, caching etc. etc. etc.) and accept them for what they are.
IF there was some dirt or whatever on the floor, a squirrel NEEDS to check it out, b/c that's how he is wired as a squirrel. Spraying him with water will do no good, only generate hostility as it happened.
Instead of "teaching" him not to do what he will always want to do - just remove stuff that he shouldn't be checking out before he gets to it.
if the area may not be clean enough - don't let him in until after you clean it.

For the most part, squirrels won't "listen," because they are squirrels, they are wild and are not meant to "listen." Some squirrels seem to be "listening" because they may simply be of a milder temperament. But they don't really "listen" in the sense that humans usually mean, especially, as dogs do.

That's one of the main reasons that it is often repeated on this board that squirrels do not make good pets.
It takes a very special human to share their live with squirrels, b/c it's the human who does the adjusting and adapting and "listening" in 99% of cases. And unless a sq is NR, it needs to be out in its own element.

So, imho - would drop the spraying water thing. It may continue generating fear of you and exasperation with you in him, and may affect negatively your co-living And since he is so young, you still have at least a decade to go.

[RamiS]

Thank you for your input:grin2 I have had him since he was 5 weeks old, so a year and eight months so far so good, I made 100% adjustments to my routine so he can be in the best place and have the best life. sometimes as humans things get overwhelming and we just need a break! I did not however invent the water spray technic I took from some people who have tried it and say it worked fine on the board.

I could argue about releasing him that it is a great idea if I had the space or the yard to do so, but releasing him is off the table until/maybe one day I can have that kind of space, if not I am fully prepared for the adventure over the next decade, he is a part of my life now.

I will most likely change the water thing for now and see how things go, my only mistake with Moby is that I never got him used to a cage, any place we move two he always had a room for himself.

Thank you again for your much appreciated advise. :grin2:grin2


never used water spraying on squirrels.

But what I learned from cats is that using water spraying as a means to "set boundaries" is not a good idea.
It creates hostility and fear in the animal and sooner or later the latter will react aggressively.
Besides, such means of "discipline" prevent closer bonding and negatively affect trust because the animal comes to associate YOU with something unpleasant and undesirable. YOU become the source of their discomfort.

There are things that you can sort of work around helping your sq to know not to do, but most things - you cannot force a sq do something. It's a wild animal so for generations genetically squirrels never "learned" to obey humans (unlike dogs and cats).
But even with cats there is a limit as to what you can expect, b/c you cannot change the instinctual needs of animal.

Which means with sqs - human needs to understand their nature, their needs (foraging, exploring new things, caching etc. etc. etc.) and accept them for what they are.
IF there was some dirt or whatever on the floor, a squirrel NEEDS to check it out, b/c that's how he is wired as a squirrel. Spraying him with water will do no good, only generate hostility as it happened.
Instead of "teaching" him not to do what he will always want to do - just remove stuff that he shouldn't be checking out before he gets to it.
if the area may not be clean enough - don't let him in until after you clean it.

For the most part, squirrels won't "listen," because they are squirrels, they are wild and are not meant to "listen." Some squirrels seem to be "listening" because they may simply be of a milder temperament. But they don't really "listen" in the sense that humans usually mean, especially, as dogs do.

That's one of the main reasons that it is often repeated on this board that squirrels do not make good pets.
It takes a very special human to share their live with squirrels, b/c it's the human who does the adjusting and adapting and "listening" in 99% of cases. And unless a sq is NR, it needs to be out in its own element.

So, imho - would drop the spraying water thing. It may continue generating fear of you and exasperation with you in him, and may affect negatively your co-living And since he is so young, you still have at least a decade to go.

[astra]

Try thinking from his perspective:

He doesn't distinguish between dirty stuff on the floor and not dirty. He always has to check something out, especially if it's new - that's part of their survival, so this need will never change.

I am sure that in his normal daily life he checks out many things on the floor or in his room or wherever you are with him. And you do not always stop him. Sometimes you do other times you don't. You may have your motivations but they are your "human" motivations. He doesn't understand them.
All he sees is that sometimes you are ok with him checking things out and other times - you spray him with water. That's confusing to him.
Besides in his worldview he isn't doing anything wrong. He isn't bothering anyone and he is doing what he feels is the most natural thing for him to do. Not to let him explore new stuff is like not to let him jump or chew wood or do any other things that squirrels need to do.
So, for these two reasons your interference and with spraying at that must be extremely upsetting to him. And the only way to express his frustration is biting.
With animals consistency is the key. So you have to either always never ever let him check things out, or not prevent him ever . And since you cannot forbid him to check things out all the time every time - it's unrealistic besides the fact that it's futile because it's instinctual in him - you have to let him check stuff out freely. Just as a human you have to remove whatever it is you don't want him to get before he gets to it. That's tge only way.

As for not being used to a cage, this may be more challenging but still doable.
If you could build him a very big nice cage with lots of toys and things to do, you could start by letting him stay there for 15 min or so. And then gradually slowly, depending on how he takes it, try to increase the time.
At first you may let him simply get used to the cage - play in it, go in and out, give him his treats in there.
But it will have to be very gradual and on his terms.



Thank you for your input:grin2 I have had him since he was 5 weeks old, so a year and eight months so far so good, I made 100% adjustments to my routine so he can be in the best place and have the best life. sometimes as humans things get overwhelming and we just need a break! I did not however invent the water spray technic I took from some people who have tried it and say it worked fine on the board.

I could argue about releasing him that it is a great idea if I had the space or the yard to do so, but releasing him is off the table until/maybe one day I can have that kind of space, if not I am fully prepared for the adventure over the next decade, he is a part of my life now.

I will most likely change the water thing for now and see how things go, my only mistake with Moby is that I never got him used to a cage, any place we move two he always had a room for himself.

Thank you again for your much appreciated advise. :grin2:grin2

[RamiS]

I cant thank you enough for you'r deep concern and valued advise.
Do you think I can just by the cage, or is it better to build a larger one myself, I am just asking because I live in an apartment, not a house, and size is a matter of concern. But I love the idea overall.


Try thinking from his perspective:

He doesn't distinguish between dirty stuff on the floor and not dirty. He always has to check something out, especially if it's new - that's part of their survival, so this need will never change.

I am sure that in his normal daily life he checks out many things on the floor or in his room or wherever you are with him. And you do not always stop him. Sometimes you do other times you don't. You may have your motivations but they are your "human" motivations. He doesn't understand them.
All he sees is that sometimes you are ok with him checking things out and other times - you spray him with water. That's confusing to him.
Besides in his worldview he isn't doing anything wrong. He isn't bothering anyone and he is doing what he feels is the most natural thing for him to do. Not to let him explore new stuff is like not to let him jump or chew wood or do any other things that squirrels need to do.
So, for these two reasons your interference and with spraying at that must be extremely upsetting to him. And the only way to express his frustration is biting.
With animals consistency is the key. So you have to either always never ever let him check things out, or not prevent him ever . And since you cannot forbid him to check things out all the time every time - it's unrealistic besides the fact that it's futile because it's instinctual in him - you have to let him check stuff out freely. Just as a human you have to remove whatever it is you don't want him to get before he gets to it. That's tge only way.

As for not being used to a cage, this may be more challenging but still doable.
If you could build him a very big nice cage with lots of toys and things to do, you could start by letting him stay there for 15 min or so. And then gradually slowly, depending on how he takes it, try to increase the time.
At first you may let him simply get used to the cage - play in it, go in and out, give him his treats in there.
But it will have to be very gradual and on his terms.

[astra]

I think it might be better to build one b/c store bought cages are usually not big enough for jumping, esp. if he is used to running free in rooms. There are some very good store-bought cages, you can put all these hammocks and cubes in it, but there is usually hardly any room for him to jump.

I can understand about the difficulties of living in an apartment (b/c I am in a similar situation), but it is still possible to fit a fairly large cage of something like 6ft tall, at least 4-5ft wide and deep, or something like that, depending on your room size.
if you build a cage with panels, it will be much easier for you, because you can build panels and then take this cage down and put it back together if you have to move.
There are some people on this board who built cages made of panels, and who can answer your questions and guide you.

Since he has a free run in a room, it's actually great - it allows him plenty of exercise and his "territory." But letting him used to a cage may be a good idea if, say, you have to go away and need someone to babysit him (not everyone can handle a free-running squirrel).
Also, each squirrel has his/her own most active hours. So, when/if you get a cage, let him run freely during those very active hours, and try let him explore the cage when he slows down.
It doesn't mean you have to cage him daily - just let him get used to it, and to, say, sleeping in it. That will be a good start.
Depending on what kind of sleeping arrangements he likes (a cube vs/ a nest box etc.), you could put different cubes and/or nest box in this new cage and once he realizes what they are, he may actually build a nest in there and sleep in there.

So, basically, you just have to "listen" to him and go at his pace and on his terms.


I cant thank you enough for you'r deep concern and valued advise.
Do you think I can just by the cage, or is it better to build a larger one myself, I am just asking because I live in an apartment, not a house, and size is a matter of concern. But I love the idea overall.

[astra]

oh, and if he does get into something he shouldn't accidentally, it might be better to just take it from him (if necessary, pry out of his hands) - he will still get upset, and may even try to bite/nip. But "taking" away from him is better than spraying because "taking" is a more natural type of interaction, often found in the wild (e.g., when they try to take each other's food, or toy etc), so as upsetting as it can be (naturally :)), it is non-threatening. But spraying is a threatening thing, so it is different. You don't want to be threatening, you want to be lovingly "authoritative" - two different things.
E.g., if goes where he shouldn't go, you can try and pick him up (if necessary - use a blanket) and remove from that place - firmly, but gently and lovingly, while saying something nice - he won't like it, but he will come to understand that there are places you don't want him to go, but it will be in a non-threatening way.

So, yes, you still have to set some boundaries and keep him from getting in trouble, but you want to do it in as "natural" way as possible, in non-threatening way.

Of course, each sq is different, some are feistier than others. So you have to see what will work for your little guy, but in everything you do - the goal is, as much as possible, not to come across as threatening and as a source of fear/great discomfort. And whatever is instinctual in him - don't try to change that, instead - adapt, adjust and work around it :).

[Rexie]

Great advice for all squee parents, thanks