Possible MBD!!!! Help!

[Taragracee]

I have a grey squirrel, around 4 months old. He is having weird symptoms, extreme thirst and what I think are seizures (no paralysis). He's shaking his head back and fourth while defecating himself. He is not lethargic at all. I noticed his appetite decrease yesterday but other than that nothing out of the ordinary. He has a consistent diet of 2 Henry's Healthy Squirrel Blocks a day, plus nuts and other fruits. We have an emergency MBD kit, which I have already forced him to drink about .5 mg of calcium carbonate.

He is still having seizures, its been about 15 mins since I forced him to take the calcium. I am curious if .5 mg is enough for an initial dose? How much more should I give him right now? and when can I expect his seizures to stop? He's very agitated and giving us a hard time about holding him.

PLEASE HELP! I'm not sure what else to do!!

[Taragracee]

Update: He just vomited. please help!

[SammysMom]

What has he eaten recently? It sounds more like toxins than MBD.

[Taragracee]

He wouldn't eat his blocks this morning, but did eat an apple slice and like 4 almonds. What do you mean by toxins? And what should treatment be? Should I still give the calcium?

[SammysMom]

Has he had access to any houseplants or other things that he shouldn't have eaten? I mean he may have eaten something toxic.

[Taragracee]

No not that I know of. We don't have house plants. He's getting really bad. He's now just laying there, breathing is really slow. I think he's dying. Is there anything else I can do that you know of? I'm really upset and worried.

[SammysMom]

Getting hydration into him to help flush may help. If you are in Florida, is there a vet nearby that you could get to quickly?

[Taragracee]

All of the vets nearby typically refuse to see the squirrels, plus its seven so I'm sure all of them are closed. I just called a wildlife rehabilitation center and I am waiting for them to call back.

He's still alive, just very still, but not paralyzed. I think his seizures have stopped. He definitely doesn't look good though.

If this is MBD, how long should it take for him to get better? and what improvement should I be looking for?

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me, I really appreciate it because I'm freaking out.

[CritterMom]

I am a bit confused about how much calcium you have given him. You said .5mg - that doesn't make any sense - I am familiar with Henry's calcium carbonate. 1/3 teaspoon of the powdered calcium = 400mg elemental calcium, so you want to shoot for that, but the 1/3 teaspoon needs to be divided up into as many small doses as you can give through the day. Try mixing it with something flavored - like a little apple juice or if there is something you know he likes. Again, that is 1/3 teaspoon PER DAY.

Make sure you keep him hydrated too, especially if he has vomited.

[Nancy in New York]

Have you taken your squirrel outside at all recently?
IF so what was the temperature, and did you have
him in direct sun?
How hot is it where you are?

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17785-WARNING!-Squirrels-Can-Overheat-in-Summer!

[Taragracee]

I'm sorry, I wrote that in the initial confusion. I meant I gave him 1/4 teaspoon. I think I was trying to type .25 tsp. It's been about an hour since I gave him that. He's still hanging on. When should I give him his next dose? Also It seems to really stress him out when I go near him (he's normally very friendly), is this okay? I just want to make sure I'm not causing more bad than good.

Nancy, we went outside together about a week ago. He was not in direct sunlight, he was climbing one of our oak trees for about two hours. He hasn't been out since because of rain. But that day it was probably about 85 degrees out. It has been even hotter since like in the mid 90s but like I said he hasn't been out recently. I don't think it could be heatstroke, he's been in the AC.

[CritterMom]

OK, that is probably why he threw up. A quarter teaspoon is nearly an entire days worth of calcium - way too much for one dose. Envision how you would feel if you just ate 2 or 3 sticks of chalk!

More is not better - this is a quite high dose of calcium already, which is necessary with MBD, but you don't need or want to add MORE. I would measure out the entire day's worth of calcium - 1/3 teaspoon - and put it in a little dish. If you can break that up into at least 4 doses a day he will be getting 100mg every few hours.

[Taragracee]

Okay, got it. Thank you.

So I should wait until morning to start giving him calcium again?

How do I know if he's getting better? He stopped seizing but his paralysis has worsened. I really can't lose this little guy!

I spoke to a wildlife rehabber and she was no help! She told me that she was really exhausted and already had a lot patients, and if he was still here in the morning that I could bring him in. But I'm scared he won't make it to morning!

Is there nothing else I can do?!

Thanks again everyone.

[Nancy in New York]

Not sure if this has been said, give him a little molasses or maple syrup when he seizes.
Seizures lower his blood sugar levels and giving the additonal sugars brings them back up.
Give him a little now, and see if that helps.
You could also offer him some honey water. Plain water with just a touch, for flavoring, of honey in.

[Taragracee]

It's really hard to give him anything, he is very agitated and whenever we go near him he tries to climb then he falls. It's terrible to watch. He is also trying to bite, I have gloves on but it just upsets him so much.

I feel like I've taken every precaution to prevent this so I don't understand what I could've done differently. I'm very upset. I know squirrels come back from this, so I'm hoping I'm doing everything I can to treat him.

Can anyone tell me what improvement looks like and how long it should take to see even the littlest improvement?

[CritterMom]

I would give him a small dose before bedtime. Like less than 1/8 teaspoon.

You can:

Make sure he is nice and warm. MBD makes their bones ache and heat helps that. If you have a heating pad that you can put under part of his sleeping area without her being able to get to it. I would.

Also, you can make him a bit more comfortable with infant ibuprophen. It is available at any drug or grocery store, in a flavored liquid. We would need to know his approximate weight to tell you how much to give.

If you can keep him close to you, pet him, etc., do that, he is probably frightened - his body isn't working.

We need to get into his diet, etc., since MBD is normally a dietary issue. If you have the MBD kit, make sure you are feeding him the blocks that come with the kit.

He will likely be lethargic and sleepy for a while and honestly, if I had a choice, all he would do for the next few days would be to sleep, eat, drink, take his calcium, and sleep some more.

[SammysMom]

I do think that we need a bit of background on this. I know this is critical at this moment, but was there anything that led up to this? How long has he been off of formula and what kind of formula did he get?

[Taragracee]

I put a few warm water bottles in his cage with him. I tried to pet him but he tried to run away, then when I pressed it he bit me. Is it normal for them to be this aggressive with MBD? I'm not sure how anyone can provide them care whenever they're this agitated.

[SammysMom]

Warm, dark and quiet may help to calm him a bit. He hurts and you fed him something he hated. He will forgot it and be better when he feels better.

[SammysMom]

Just don't leave water bottles in as they cool off. They actually will draw the heat from his body. Of you have some uncooked rice or dried beans, you can put them into a sock, tie it closed and microwave it for 20 secs at a time and heat it up. Squish it around to be sure there are no hot spots. It will hold the heat for longer and won't draw his heat from him as it cools.

[Taragracee]

Bernie's Backstory:

His daily diet is one Henry's block in the morning and one in the afternoon usually around three. In between his blocks he eats probably 10 to 20 almonds, apples, squash, broccoli and/or blueberries. Sometimes I give him these yogie treats I bought at the pet store for rodents, but that is not very often.

He's been off his esiblac powder formula for probably about a month and a half. I've been taking him outside a couple hours a week, letting him get used to it. Rain keeps delaying his release.

On Friday 5/27 we bought him a brand new cage, about 5 ft tall so its very large, but that is the only thing that has been different for him. He's really been acting totally normal until yesterday where he wasn't interested in eating his block, which is weird because he loves his blocks, but I thought maybe he was just holding out for nuts. After he refused to eat his block I gave him some almonds and apples which he ate. He was not lethargic during this time at all. Then today he ate some of his block and some apple. I took him out to play while I was doing my homework this afternoon and I noticed him drinking an excessive amount of water. He was very playful, which is why I wasn't super concerned. About an hour after he started shaking. I got scared and immediately gave him the emergency calcium. About 5 minutes after that he started seizing. He has since stopped seizing, but now has paralysis.

I love this little guy, and I'm not sure what I could've done differently. I really want to know. I have even been looking into becoming a CWR. So I always want to learn.

[SammysMom]

How tall was his other cage? I am wondering if maybe he fell and injured himself.

[Taragracee]

His other cage was about two and half feet. But he does very well in the tall oak tree in my yard.

Could it be possible the cage switch could have stressed him out and he stopped eating? I don't always watch him to make sure he's eaten all of his block. He could have been stock piling his food, and I just didn't notice. I was reading it doesn't take very long for MBD to take effect.

[Spanky]

In between his blocks he eats probably 10 to 20 almonds, apples, squash, broccoli and/or blueberries.

Just want to make sure this is 10 - 20, and not 1 -2? :eek

Stop all nuts for now. Nuts are an occasional treat, like giving child cotton candy...

[Taragracee]

Update: I just tried to give him some calcium mixed with syrup and water but it was basically impossible and I decided he was hurting himself more by trying to get away from me. I did get just a bit in his mouth. I also mixed some calcium in avocado, just trying to get him to take it anyway possible, he still didn't go for it. He won't drink water either. This is a bad situation. If he's still here in the morning, I'm going to take him to a wildlife center about an hour away. Hopefully, they can help him more than I can.

Thank you everyone for your help, I will let you know how tomorrow goes.

[SammysMom]

Where are you in Florida?

[Taragracee]

I'm in Ft. Pierce Fl, about an hour thirty south of Orlando and three hours north of Miami.

[SammysMom]

How is he?

[SammysMom]

I am praying for a turnaround for your baby. I know how scary it can be. Are you near port orange? I think thats right but will look

[Taragracee]

Bernie is showing some improvement! This morning he ate a little bit of his block. He is also letting me pet him. He still very sick though.

Whenever I attempted to give him a dose of calcium he became very agitated again. He saw the syringe and got upset. Have any tips on getting him to take the calcium? Can I put it in peanut butter maybe?

He got up on the top shelf of his cage, I'm worried he will fall. I have a smaller cage that about a foot, pretty small, should I put him in that? I don't want to stress him out further but I also don't want him to fall.

I am about 2 hours away from Port Orange.

[SammysMom]

I have a list of vets. I will look in florida. I know i have a few

[Taragracee]

Thank you, I would appreciate it. I just called the wildlife center I was planning on going to and they didn't sound too promising and they said if I brought him there I couldn't have him back. He's so combative that I fear they would give up on him because he's too difficult.

Would a vet give him a calcium shot? I was reading they do those for reptiles with MBD.

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you, I would appreciate it. I just called the wildlife center I was planning on going to and they didn't sound too promising and they said if I brought him there I couldn't have him back. He's so combative that I fear they would give up on him because he's too difficult.

Would a vet give him a calcium shot? I was reading they do those for reptiles with MBD.

Personally I would never take him to a wildlife center.
We had a story once of a squirrel being brought to one, and
he bit one of the volunteers, and they euthanized him to test
him for rabies. :shakehead
Yes, vets will give calcium injections.

[Taragracee]

Okay, yeah I was afraid of something like that. Definitely not going there. I will try to find a vet that will agree to see him.

[Nancy in New York]

Okay, yeah I was afraid of something like that. Definitely not going there. I will try to find a vet that will agree to see him.

We have a 9 years old squirrel that just got calcium injections,
but she may have other issues.
Let me look for the specifics of the vet visit.

Read post #30 and #47.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?53900-Assessing-condition-of-9-year-old-squirrel-and-nutritional-needs

[Taragracee]

I just called our vet that we use for our dog, and he was currently in surgery, but the receptionist said she would call me back and would let me know if I could bring him in. She told me that he treated a baby squirrel last week. So fingers crossed. Still calling around to other vets.

I hope Daisey recovers! As far as my little Bernie, I guess its just a waiting game now, till a vet calls me back. I'm not sure what else I can do.

[Mel1959]

If you are willing to drive north on I95 to Port Orange you can see one of the best squirrel vets in the country. The hospital name is Ravenwood Vet Clinic and the doctor you want to see is Dr. Emerson. She is amazing and knows far more about squirrels than most vets. The office is a short distance from I95 and easy to get to. I am located near Cocoa Bch and take my guy up there often. She works MWF usually, but she may be in at other times to work around the other vets schedules. The ofc # 386-788-1550. I hope your guys get better.

[Taragracee]

Thank you so much!! I will definitely add this vet to my address book. I actually found a vet in my town willing to see him and I am sitting in the office waiting to be seen now. But if this vet can't do anything or little Bernie doesn't show signs of improvement I will 100% make the drive!

He seems fairly stable right now, I just don't want him to relapse (since he won't take calcium orally now)! So hopefully this shot will do the trick!

I cannot express how thankful I am to this community! :Love_Icon

[CritterMom]

No single shot is going to do the trick. He is going to need calcium orally for a long time - weeks to months - to get past this...

[SammysMom]

I am so glad! I am on the phone with someone in Florida now. I will cease the search! Prayers for healing. Remember to tell he went into a tall cage recently. Xrays will answer injury and mbd questions

[Taragracee]

No single shot is going to do the trick. He is going to need calcium orally for a long time - weeks to months - to get past this...

Yes, most definitely! But I was hoping this shot would bring him out of the funk enough to let me give him the calcium orally. I am have already committed myself to doing whatever it takes to get this little guy back to normal :D

[Taragracee]

Just an update for everyone!

We just got home from vet, Dr. Fox, and he was great! He's actually raised a few squirrels himself. He wasn't totally convinced it is MBD though, he said it could be a number a things like Bernie could have fell or he might have really low blood sugar. He said if Bernie doesn't show major improvement by tomorrow we will do an xray and possibly some blood work. But since the calcium seemed to be helping him, he went ahead and did an calcium injection. Bernie took it like a champ! He didn't try to run or bite. Super proud of him. He's definitely feeling better. I was really concerned that he might be dehydrated but he proved me wrong and went pee at the vet's office and it was very clear. So that's a good sign. The vet recommended I put Bernie back on esiblac formula, just diluted and mixed with calcium, for the next three weeks or so. Bernie is now resting and the future looks good for now. :w00t:w00t

Dr. Fox was great and so was his office staff! Told me to call anytime if I had questions. The visit was only 50$ which is a lot less than what I expected. For future reference if any one needs a vet that will see squirrels in the Port St. Lucie/Ft. Pierce Fl area, here is the office contact: Dr. Fox at Animal Hospital of West Port Saint Lucie (772)344-8800.

Thanks everyone for your help!:Love_Icon

[lennysmom]

Yay for a good update!:dance Glad you found a vet that knows squirrels and is reasonable in cost.:thumbsup
Praying for continued improvement in your little guy.:grouphug

[SammysMom]

What a great update!!! Thank-you for taking such good care of that baby!