Please help is this the start of mbd or something else?

[Sarah86]

Hi my squirrel nutkin is now 22 months old, I'm in uk, she's a non release as it's illegal and she has neurological issues, I've raised her from 5 weeks old, she fell out of a tree onto a path, basically she's been a happy healthy girl, she's always had co ordination issues as one eye is blind, she circles and sometimes zones out a bit for a few seconds like she's somewhere else but she's done this since I've had her, she has HHbs-she's a fussy eater and doesn't eat all of it, she has veg but mostly eats her peas, carrot, sweet potato, blueberry, apiece of coconut, apiece of avocado and some sesame seeds, normally as a treat in the evening she has a couple of nuts in shells which she eats quickly! I put a pinch of calcium powder in her water and she has a uv lamp, her fur is shiny and she has a bushy tail, her teeth are ok, she doesn't have malocclusion and there's things in her cage to chew on, I'm worried though as for the last week or so she's been losing her appetite and behaving differently, she seems agitated when out of her cage, not really comming for cuddles and tickles, burying her treat nuts instead of eating them and not eating much of her normal food, she will eat some things, I tried cashew nuts and a piece of dried banana and she ate them so she CAN eat but just wants to run around, I've checked her cage and there's no stash, I was just thinking she will eat when she's hungry but I'm worried it could be the start of mbd? She isn't lethargic or sleeping more, she still jumps and runs-a lot! But she's not her usual self, her diet isn't great she is so fussy but normally eats some veg, some fruit and most of a block, I'm worried if she carries on like this she's going to be deficient-or she already is? Please help, I'm going round in circles here, I've tried giving her a tums-not mashed up just as the tablet to nibble on but she's not interested just wants to run-I couldn't force feed her she doesn't stay still, she is cuddled on her own terms, when she's happy she will lay in my hand for hours being tickled so I can see her teeth are ok, but she's not stopping much for cuddles lately, sorry for the long post, I hope it makes sense, please tell me what I should do for her, thank you xx

[Tai]

How big a cage is she in? It sounds like she's bored and feeling pent up. Her natural instinct is to run/jump/climb 20 hours of the day :) The problems associated with her fall may have made her seem calmer for a long time. If you're looking for more calcium and something for her to gnaw on, try antlers. Maybe do some extra enrichment activities with her? Something to keep her mind stimulated too. I've had some luck with large mazes and the bird toys with the hidden treat compartments/peanut butter, scraps of cloth lightly tied together and then to the side of the cage for drey building exercises. Hang some large carboard tubes in a row (pet stores for guinea pigs) in her cage for her to travel through? Usually do these with releasable, younger squirrels though, to help train them a bit. I'm not sure how your girl will react. All you can do is try!

[CritterMom]

Her diet sounds pretty good...You may be seeing her come into season. Has she ever done that before? Many times their genitalia will become swollen so that they are visible though not always; but her behavior change sure sounds like it could be.

[Sarah86]

How big a cage is she in? It sounds like she's bored and feeling pent up. Her natural instinct is to run/jump/climb 20 hours of the day :) The problems associated with her fall may have made her seem calmer for a long time. If you're looking for more calcium and something for her to gnaw on, try antlers. Maybe do some extra enrichment activities with her? Something to keep her mind stimulated too. I've had some luck with large mazes and the bird toys with the hidden treat compartments/peanut butter, scraps of cloth lightly tied together and then to the side of the cage for drey building exercises. Hang some large carboard tubes in a row (pet stores for guinea pigs) in her cage for her to travel through? Usually do these with releasable, younger squirrels though, to help train them a bit. I'm not sure how your girl will react. All you can do is try!

Hi thanks for replying, her cage is 6 FTx 6ftx6ft, she has an hour out in the morning then 3 hours in the evening, she's always run and jumped around like mad!she just seems agitated at the moment, I will try the antlers I know the pet shop sells them for dogs and I'll try with some more tubes etc thanks for advice :) x

[Sarah86]

Her diet sounds pretty good...You may be seeing her come into season. Has she ever done that before? Many times their genitalia will become swollen so that they are visible though not always; but her behavior change sure sounds like it could be.

Hi her diet wasn't bad but if she carries on not eating much I'm worried, it could be season she's never had one before, she has moved some small blankets to her hanging bed-drey building? If it is season would this affect her appetite? I don't really know what to expect with it, she's still friendly not snappy or viscous with me, she's stopped running a couple of times tonight and asked for tickles which is more like her but she's still not interested in her nuts in shells which I'm finding hard to understand-she loved them! Now she's not interested only in hiding them, will she go back to normal after season? How long are they usually like it for? Thanks for replying :) x

[Sarah86]

Hi she's behaving more like herself now not so agitated and has tickles and cuddles which is great but she's still not that interested in her food-she has eaten some peas, sweet potato, little apple, avocado and sesame seeds but only half her block-she's gone back to shredding it :( and she's still not interested in her treat nuts in shells which is the thing that's puzzling me and getting me worried :( she loves her nuts-normally snatches them and eats them right away but she's just burying them and doesn't seem bothered with them, can they loose appetite like this? She's still VERY active, good coat, grooming herself etc she's lost her winter fat she's quite lean but not too skinny, basically am I over worrying here? Do they eat less if in season?

[CritterMom]

How are her teeth? Especially the lowers. They haven't overgrown, have they? If they do they begin to press and then even pierce the upper palate and cause BIG problems. Not wanting to eat hard stuff is one of the first signs of a problem.

[Sarah86]

Hi as far as I can see they look the same as normal, she's just eaten a hazelnut not in a shell and she seems to be eating normally, I can only look at her teeth when she's relaxed and tired having a tickle so I'll look later, I'm really panicking now, I'm so scared of anything being wrong with her :( she's always had nuts in shells and there's wood in her cage to gnaw on which she has so if her teeth were growing too long why would it be now? I don't know what to do, she's full of energy as usual :(

[Sarah86]

I keep trying to open her mouth wide enough to see the roof of her mouth but I can't, would her mouth be able to close? If they were getting too long what am I going to do, I'm feeling sick with worry, I'm in uk, my vet said no when I tried to register her incase she ever needed any treatment, is there anyone in uk that could help me if it is her teeth?

[Sarah86]

If I can manage to get a picture later can you tell from that if they are too long? Do I need to pull her bottom lip down so you can see from the bottom? Or just her mouth? I'm so sorry I'm in such a panic about her, I love her so much

[CritterMom]

First, don't panic. I mentioned teeth because it will make them stop eating hard stuff, as sore teeth would make ANYONE not want to chew hard stuff, so it needs to be ruled out.

The fact that you say she did eat a hazelnut sounds like it is not a tooth issue, but checking is a good idea. If you can, try to put something like a pencil or popsicle stick in her mouth behind her teeth and it will prop her mouth open a bit so you can see.

If she DOES need her teeth trimmed, we have lots of info and resources - and many members who do this to their own squirrels. Having good clippers is the key and we can help you there, too.

Female animals can get really wonky when it comes to being in season. A mama squirrel wants a BIG stash at her disposal by the time she gives birth so she doesn't have to spend so much time away from the kids foraging. She may just be building her stash. She may no have a man and she may not be pregnant but dang it, she has her stash!

So while I think you are seeing seasonal related things here that will stop when her hormones get back to normal (and that seems to be starting), checking her teeth is always a good idea - better safe than sorry!

[Sarah86]

First, don't panic. I mentioned teeth because it will make them stop eating hard stuff, as sore teeth would make ANYONE not want to chew hard stuff, so it needs to be ruled out.

The fact that you say she did eat a hazelnut sounds like it is not a tooth issue, but checking is a good idea. If you can, try to put something like a pencil or popsicle stick in her mouth behind her teeth and it will prop her mouth open a bit so you can see.

If she DOES need her teeth trimmed, we have lots of info and resources - and many members who do this to their own squirrels. Having good clippers is the key and we can help you there, too.

Female animals can get really wonky when it comes to being in season. A mama squirrel wants a BIG stash at her disposal by the time she gives birth so she doesn't have to spend so much time away from the kids foraging. She may just be building her stash. She may no have a man and she may not be pregnant but dang it, she has her stash!

So while I think you are seeing seasonal related things here that will stop when her hormones get back to normal (and that seems to be starting), checking her teeth is always a good idea - better safe than sorry!
Hi thanks for the reply, I'm sorry I'm panicking, I've spent most of the afternoon with her watching her trying to look closely at her mouth while she eats-she's had 2 hazelnuts and a walnut but not in shells, she doesn't seem to be in pain while eating but yes I'll definitely get her mouth open tonight when she's tired, I really hope I can get a photo as I don't trust my own judgement that well, I suffer with generalised anxiety disorder and depression so I'm prone to panic and severely over worry, I've spent most of the afternoon crying over her, she's my furbaby x I really hope I don't have to trim her teeth as she can get so stressed out I don't know how I'd keep her still and do it, but if it comes to it it'll have to be done :( and thank you for the support, it's very lonely here dealing with a squirrel so all advice and help is really appreciated, I had a lovely message from lighten up too which had me in tears, thank you all so much and apologies for my panicky posts! If it's her hormones she's back to her normal personality and seems happy-just the not eating and stashing-would she be happier if I gave her a big stash of nuts so she felt she had enough? Then she may eat one? Xx

[CritterMom]

We have an entire section devoted to teeth and trimming and tools, etc. - http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?171-Malocclusions. There are lots of threads to look at in there and several have good pics of teeth for your reference. I am unfortunately at work right now and the server here strips all of the photos off TSB so I can't point you to a good photo because I can't see them! But if you look through some of them it will help you a lot.

The only problem with giving her lots of nuts is that some squirrels get REALLY nasty about protecting their stashes. I bring my boy into my bedroom for our playtimes but he isn't allowed to have nuts in the shell in there because he gets so obnoxious! He hides them under the bed then attacks me to get me away from HIS nuts!

[Sarah86]

273359
We have an entire section devoted to teeth and trimming and tools, etc. - http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?171-Malocclusions. There are lots of threads to look at in there and several have good pics of teeth for your reference. I am unfortunately at work right now and the server here strips all of the photos off TSB so I can't point you to a good photo because I can't see them! But if you look through some of them it will help you a lot.

The only problem with giving her lots of nuts is that some squirrels get REALLY nasty about protecting their stashes. I bring my boy into my bedroom for our playtimes but he isn't allowed to have nuts in the shell in there because he gets so obnoxious! He hides them under the bed then attacks me to get me away from HIS nuts!

Hi I've had a good look at her mouth and teeth and got some photos, her bottom teeth aren't digging in to her roof of her mouth when closed as I lifted her cheeks to look, there's no cuts or sores and she didn't mind me touching as she was sleepy, I'm trying to post the photos but at the moment it doesn't want to so I'll keep trying xxx

[Sarah86]

273361273361273362273363

[Sarah86]

273372273373273374273375 sorry if there's lots of the same it kept not uploading then doing it twice. What do you think? Are they too long? I put in a pic of her so you can see her! Xx

[CritterMom]

They look okay to me!

[Sarah86]

Oh thank you xxx I've got a couple more I can post, the bottoms are quite long on them then aren't they, look weird! She's still having her cuddles she's so sleepy now I can do anything with her, it's nearly 1am here now! I'll have to scoop her up into her bed, 273376 this one I'm pulling her bottom lip right down so you can see the full length to the gums 273377 thank you for helping with her, I just want her back to herself and to be healthy xx

[Sarah86]

Hi I'm sorry to keep going on, did you see the picture where I pulled down her lip so u can see the full length from the gum? Do they look the right length? It's so hard to tell from looking at other peoples photos too, if they are ok and she carries on not having anything in a shell how long before she gets problems? There's plenty of things in her cage to chew on -if she wanted too and she's got a shell and a cuttlebone that she sometimes used to nibble on but haven't seen her interested in them for a while, when they open a nit is it mostly the top teeth they use? I'm still so worried about her :( xx

[CritterMom]

Nope, in fact the way they eat is fascinating. The top teeth hold and stabilize the nut - in fact they move side to side in the jaw slightly so that they can spread almost prong-like to help hold it in place, while the lower teeth work their way in to the nut. If the shell is so hard that it won't pop open on the seam if the apply pressure on it, they skritch their lower teeth over a very small area on the nut until they drill a little hole through, which allows them better leverage to finally crack it open.

Tooth trimming normally needs to happen because there is either a congenital problem or tooth issues resulting from falling face first from the nest which causes the teeth to be misaligned so they don't work properly. She doesn't have that.

She may have simply become complacent abut getting nuts - and since you are giving her more to try to tempt her, it would make her even more complacent. Why don't you totally withhold them for a few days and THEN offer her one?

[Sarah86]

Nope, in fact the way they eat is fascinating. The top teeth hold and stabilize the nut - in fact they move side to side in the jaw slightly so that they can spread almost prong-like to help hold it in place, while the lower teeth work their way in to the nut. If the shell is so hard that it won't pop open on the seam if the apply pressure on it, they skritch their lower teeth over a very small area on the nut until they drill a little hole through, which allows them better leverage to finally crack it open.

Tooth trimming normally needs to happen because there is either a congenital problem or tooth issues resulting from falling face first from the nest which causes the teeth to be misaligned so they don't work properly. She doesn't have that.

She may have simply become complacent abut getting nuts - and since you are giving her more to try to tempt her, it would make her even more complacent. Why don't you totally withhold them for a few days and THEN offer her one?
Hi thanks for replying again, I didn't know that was how they used them, it is fascinating, I'm glad you think hers are ok from the photos, I freaked out even more reading some of the posts about teeth trimming! I don't want her to have to go through anything uncomfortable, I'm so protective over her! I'm going to follow your advice and withhold all nuts for a while-I've seen she can eat without a shell so she's not getting anything other than blocks, veg and her avocado, I bought her a new hanging chew for rabbits it's kind of like hard loofah she's had a tiny nibble on that as it's fruit flavoured, hope she just goes back to herself soon, she doesn't realise she's making me a worried mess! Can I keep you updated how she gets on for a while? I don't want to pester, everyone has stuff to deal with-I just don't seem to deal very well with it! Thanks again it's much appreciated xx

[CritterMom]

Well of COURSE you can update us - the frustration is when people come and ask and we never hear from them again! Reading about issues and how to solve them is how everyone here learns! Plus we only have a few regular members from the UK and could use some more!

[Sarah86]

Well of COURSE you can update us - the frustration is when people come and ask and we never hear from them again! Reading about issues and how to solve them is how everyone here learns! Plus we only have a few regular members from the UK and could use some more!

Good good I will keep you posted on how she goes, hopefully she gets back to normal and I can stop worrying xx

[Sarah86]

Update on nutkin
I'm still not happy with her, I'm worrying, I bought some new hanging chews and she's had a nibble on them, she's eating some of her veg but doesn't seem that interested, she's still running around as usual very active and she's still grooming herself, I've withheld the nuts in shells until she managed to get into the nut drawer today-she took some and hid them so I thought I'd leave her with them and watch, she hides them, seems worried, digs them up again and moves them or runs round and round her cage with it in her mouth, she had a walnut in her mouth and was knocking it on all sorts of things as she was running which was worrying me incase she damages her teeth? I took one of the hazlenuts in shell and held it up to the cage-she wanted it and I held it still while she gnawed at it through the cage, then she gave up, she hadn't cracked it but left teeth marks in it, I opened the cage then and passed it to her-she cracked it open and ate it! I did the same with another and she ate it. I know that should stop me worrying but I still am, since taking the photos of her teeth I keep trying to look at them, I don't know if I'm imagining it but she seems to have her mouth open slightly, like in normal resting position is this normal? Also when she's been laying back having a tickle I have been closing her mouth to see how it closes and a couple of times made her sneeze a bit-does this mean it could be irritating her sinuses when completely closed? She doesn't sneeze or have a runny nose or anything, I don't know if I'm worrying over nothing here really. If her teeth were too long could she wear them back down by opening nuts or should I give them a trim? I've ordered some sidecutters like the ones recommended (German steel) so I'll have the tool if we need to try-but I really don't want to have to :( when her mouth is closed how much room should there be between the end of the bottom teeth and the roof of the mouth? X

[CritterMom]

Oh, chewing things is how they keep their teeth at the proper length. They grow continuously, which they need, since they have to use them to get food. I know you are worried, but she sounds like a perfectly normal girl squirrel who maybe just came out of her estrus cycle and has nuts in the shell available to stash and then obsess over and move and worry about. Like I said, I am stingy with nuts in the shell - my boy gets one hard shelled nut like a hickory nut or black walnut at night when he goes back to his cage for the express purpose of keeping his teeth in tip top condition. I keep an eye on that nut, too - if he doesn't eat it right away and stashes it, I retrieve it and offer it to him the next day. They lose their little minds over shelled nuts. Out of the shell they just eat but in the shell; their instinct tells them that those need to be hidden for winter because they have the shell to keep them good...

It sounds like you have everything you need should you have to do something to them but they look like my squirrel's teeth and I don't clip his. And if you are messing with her mouth and touching her nose and whiskers, you WILL make her sneeze!

[Sarah86]

Hi sorry it's been a very long time since I've replied, I couldn't log back on I got a 403 forbidden message on all our phones, iPad and laptop now suddenly I'm back on hooray! I've really missed being here as I'm still worrying over her! I haven't trimmed her teeth-she can eat and chew a nut she's just not keen to but I've held a pecan in shell up to the bars and she uses both top and bottom teeth ok so it can be done, she's been chewing a bit on her wooden chew but she's still not eating very much food atall just stashing it even her veg, she's lost weight, she's still the same in herself very active all day, a bit jumpy at times, is this still her hormones? How much longer will she go on like this it's been 5 weeks now, I don't want her making herself Ill by not eating enough, i do worry over her!

[Sarah86]

I also hope when I log out of here today I can get back on! A friend of mine who lives a very long way away sent an email to the administrators of the page to try to get me back on as they could access the page-they live around 600 miles away from me, I had no way of getting on with anything even a borrowed phone! I don't know what went wrong as I could always get on on my phone! Hopefully it's ok now! X

[DarkLies212]

Hi sorry it's been a very long time since I've replied, I couldn't log back on I got a 403 forbidden message on all our phones, iPad and laptop now suddenly I'm back on hooray!

I had the same problem!! I had to type in www.thesquirrelboard.com each time I wanted to get on while on a mobile device. If that didn't work (I don't usually type the www), I googled the squirrel board and logged in from there. I have no idea what that was all about though...

[Sarah86]

Hi thanks, it's working on and off on all devices even on laptop with googling it and putting full address it wouldn't let me! So frustrating! One minute it's fine then you can't get back on for days, I've tried different phones, networks, iPad, iPad using a different internet provider, laptop, laptop using different Internet provider, looked up all the tech help to change settings on my devices incase it was something blocking it-nothing, then it will let me in, then I'll be blocked out again! Xxx

[DarkLies212]

That's crazy!! I'll alert some of our more tech-savvy Admins to your issue. Maybe they can help! :hug

[PennyCash]

Hi sorry it's been a very long time since I've replied, I couldn't log back on I got a 403 forbidden message on all our phones, iPad and laptop now suddenly I'm back on hooray! I've really missed being here as I'm still worrying over her! I haven't trimmed her teeth-she can eat and chew a nut she's just not keen to but I've held a pecan in shell up to the bars and she uses both top and bottom teeth ok so it can be done, she's been chewing a bit on her wooden chew but she's still not eating very much food atall just stashing it even her veg, she's lost weight, she's still the same in herself very active all day, a bit jumpy at times, is this still her hormones? How much longer will she go on like this it's been 5 weeks now, I don't want her making herself Ill by not eating enough, i do worry over her!

Hi,
She's beautiful. What's her name?
I've had the ability to discuss the importance of sunlight for squirrels with several vets and here is some of what I've learned. Natural sunlight whenever possible for 30 min a day is ideal. Perhaps you could get a small cage or build one so that you could take her outside for a bit daily? If that's not possible and the lamp is the only viable alternative please make sure that she's about 4 ft (1 meter +) close to the lamp. Also be sure to change the bulb at least every 6 months since their effectiveness diminishes over time even though they are still turning on. Since you are a person like me who worries I highly recommend trying to find a vet who would be willing to help you if needed. I know that this will not be easy based on where you are and that she is a Grey but if you keep trying perhaps you will be able to find a sympathetic vet who will see her. I say this not because I believe you need one right now. More so for the future should you need one. Living somewhere myself that has more vets who will NOT see squirrels than who will I know firsthand how truly scary it is to be worried and unable to find help. Therefore I will encourage you to continue looking so that you will be prepared in case of an emergency. Please do keep updating us. :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

Hi,
She's beautiful. What's her name?
I've had the ability to discuss the importance of sunlight for squirrels with several vets and here is some of what I've learned. Natural sunlight whenever possible for 30 min a day is ideal. Perhaps you could get a small cage or build one so that you could take her outside for a bit daily? If that's not possible and the lamp is the only viable alternative please make sure that she's about 4 ft (1 meter +) close to the lamp. Also be sure to change the bulb at least every 6 months since their effectiveness diminishes over time even though they are still turning on. Since you are a person like me who worries I highly recommend trying to find a vet who would be willing to help you if needed. I know that this will not be easy based on where you are and that she is a Grey but if you keep trying perhaps you will be able to find a sympathetic vet who will see her. I say this not because I believe you need one right now. More so for the future should you need one. Living somewhere myself that has more vets who will NOT see squirrels than who will I know firsthand how truly scary it is to be worried and unable to find help. Therefore I will encourage you to continue looking so that you will be prepared in case of an emergency. Please do keep updating us. :grouphug

Great Post PennyCash,
I used to write this all the time about finding a vet BEFORE an emergency happens.
It sort of fell on deaf ears with so many finders, that I stopped. I do think it's a great
suggestion, and one that I will start mentioning again. :bowdown

[PennyCash]

Great Post PennyCash,
I used to write this all the time about finding a vet BEFORE an emergency happens.
It sort of fell on deaf ears with so many finders, that I stopped. I do think it's a great
suggestion, and one that I will start mentioning again. :bowdown

Thank you Nancy :glomp
It's obvious how much Sara loves Nutkin (after sleep I found her name) and I know firsthand how stressful it is to try and find a vet in an emergency. Now I've found a couple through numerous phone calls asking if they will see a squirrel. I feel better prepared for any problems that might come up. :w00t