baby squirrel not gaining weight despite feeding as required. input please.

[creativedreams]

Hello,

I am newly licensed to rehabilitate wildlife through my mentor Ed Sones in Austin TX. He is currently out of town and away from the phone so I thought to ask here.

We have two fox squirrels about 6 weeks old. We have had them since they were about 3 weeks and stable. This is not our first batch of babies and we are experienced raising them from pinkies on up to release.

I am currently stumped as we are at the point where we are feeding them 5.5 cc of the recommended puppy formula 4x/day as well as monkey pellets and a few texas nuts (we live in texas so give them the stuff they would get here and have had a lot of success...the nuts they mostly just chew up but the smaller one is not eating them yet that I know of. Her stool is still formula based). Anyway, the one is growing daily and has a full coat and is filling out well.

The second seems to be a runt but she's quite boney, and reminds me of how kittens are when they have tapeworm, before treatment. She eats well, and never turns down food. She just simply isn't putting on much weight and has about 20 percent less activity and energy than the one who is larger and stronger. She's slightly lethargic but not overly so. We just do not understand why she won't gain weight at a normal level. Her coat is also not as fluffy or healthy. She's very thin and her coat just isn't thick like the bigger sister. See pics plz if you want to know what I mean.

What causes are there beyond underfeeding that will keep a baby squirrel from gaining weight?

Our mentor gets back tomorrow but I'd like to have some outside answers if at all possible. Thanks so much.

Regards,


Kiersten (pics are of my bf holding them yesterday so you can see how the one has not been growing like the other even though they were almost the same size just 3 weeks ago)

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[stepnstone]

Few questions: How are her bowels, what is her weight and at what percentage is she fed?

Hard to tell from the picture, is she fully hydrated? A dehydrated baby can not process their
food properly which could possibly account for some of what your seeing.

[creativedreams]

Few questions: How are her bowels, what is her weight and at what percentage is she fed?

Hard to tell from the picture, is she fully hydrated? A dehydrated baby can not process their
food properly which could possibly account for some of what your seeing.

Yes..she is getting 22cc of formula daily and is taking it all without complaint. It's almost like she has tapeworm..in terms of what's going on. She is definitely passing stool though and eating ok. She's not as voraciously hungry as the other but she is definitely excited to get food.

[stepnstone]

Yes..she is getting 22cc of formula daily and is taking it all without complaint. It's almost like she has tapeworm..in terms of what's going on. She is definitely passing stool though and eating ok. She's not as voraciously hungry as the other but she is definitely excited to get food.
I guess what I'm asking is what is her poop like? Soft, hard, color?
I would try and offer her extra hydration in between her feedings, hydration plays such a key role in these babies.
If you really are leaning toward a parasite, getting a stool sample checked would provide the answer.

Sometimes you will see runts that take longer to catch up and some that always stay smaller even after they fill out.
I can't really see yours to evaluate but the "skinny" you express along with the dull fur suggests there is something
outside "runt" going on.

[creativedreams]

Her feces is soft and formula based...ie not nutty brown but a little more yellow ochre...looks like the other one's when she's only eating formula.

The other one is furred out everywhere...her fur you can see skin through it as if she's just not got a lot of hair...though she's better today than a few days ago...the other one is getting meaty in the legs while she is super boney and you can even feel her spine when petting her.

That's great input. Thanks.

JM


I guess what I'm asking is what is her poop like? Soft, hard, color?
I would try and offer her extra hydration in between her feedings, hydration plays such a key role in these babies.
If you really are leaning toward a parasite, getting a stool sample checked would provide the answer.

Sometimes you will see runts that take longer to catch up and some that always stay smaller even after they fill out.
I can't really see yours to evaluate but the "skinny" you express along with the dull fur suggests there is something
outside "runt" going on.

[stepnstone]

Sometimes these little's who need more stable weight benefit with extra fat added to their diet.
Some will add heavy whipping cream to their formula and some go with a 50-50 of Esbilac and Fox valley
formula with good results. That's another avenue you could pursue to see if it is what she needs.

I personally am not familiar with Foxers myself and not sure if their requirements differ so much from that
of a grey. We do have several members experienced with foxers and hopefully when they come on in the
morning they may be able to give you a better insight.

[creativedreams]

Thank you. My mentor discourages from the fattier liquids usually but I will mention it and update folks once i hear back. any other input is appreciated.


Sometimes these little's who need more stable weight benefit with extra fat added to their diet.
Some will add heavy whipping cream to their formula and some go with a 50-50 of Esbilac and Fox valley
formula with good results. That's another avenue you could pursue to see if it is what she needs.

I personally am not familiar with Foxers myself and not sure if their requirements differ so much from that
of a grey. We do have several members experienced with foxers and hopefully when they come on in the
morning they may be able to give you a better insight.

[island rehabber]

stepnstone has given you great advice. I just want to add that only 5.5cc per feeding seems very little for a 6 wk old fox squirrel. I only raise greys -- we don't have foxers up here -- and at 6 weeks a quick glance at last season's rehab log tells me that my maniacs were guzzling 9-12cc formula 4x/day. Greys weigh a considerable amount less than foxers. I am wondering if she is simply not getting enough calories for her metabolism in order to grow properly. If you weigh her in grams, she should be taking a minimum of 5% of her body weight each feeding, and 7% is really optimal. When I have voracious babies who can digest it, I sometimes feed up to 10% of body weight unless it affects their poop.

Just thinkin'. And welcome to The Squirrel Board! :Welcome

[Nancy in New York]

stepnstone has given you great advice. I just want to add that only 5.5cc per feeding seems very little for a 6 wk old fox squirrel. I only raise greys -- we don't have foxers up here -- and at 6 weeks a quick glance at last season's rehab log tells me that my maniacs were guzzling 9-12cc formula 4x/day. Greys weigh a considerable amount less than foxers. I am wondering if she is simply not getting enough calories for her metabolism in order to grow properly. If you weigh her in grams, she should be taking a minimum of 5% of her body weight each feeding, and 7% is really optimal. When I have voracious babies who can digest it, I sometimes feed up to 10% of body weight unless it affects their poop.

Just thinkin'. And welcome to The Squirrel Board! :Welcome


Exactly Maura, reading the thread I too thought 22 mls of formula is WAY too little for a 6 week old foxer.
Do you have a weight on her?
Most likely you will need to increase her intake, but that needs to be done slowly.
How much does her sibling eat daily?

[ALittleNutty]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that amount of formula was pretty low for a squirrel that age. For those little ones that don't seem to add the weight like they should I add Ultraboost from Henry's to help them put on the weight they need.

[creativedreams]

The other squirrels (all eastern fox) are doing great. This is not a food amount issue as she is the only one suffering from the issue. The three squirrels are 85g (in recovery now) 98g (5cc) and 120g (5.5 cc). Her food is spread out, and the past couple days feeding her in smaller increments more times per day so as to not stress her. They are not just on formula, as they have the monkey pellets and a nut or two each day, which mostly they teeth on but are getting some solid food. The monkey pellets are kept in there always. However this is not an under amount of formula for fox squirrels..five percent body weight.

I met with Ed Sones today, who has rehabbed thousands of animals and countless squirrels during his career and left her in his hands. He believes it is possibly a parasite (he said there is only one he knows of that affects these squirrels here, and I will ask again for the name as it escapes me). He says she definitely has a gastrointestinal infection though and we noticed she has some wincing when touching her intestinal area (perhaps some constipation along with dehydration and the infection). He treated her with two antibiotics, gave her fluids, and is doing subcutaneous tonight and is working to get her stable now. He also cut her food intake down to half food half water in order to flush her system, the same as when we have infections, increase fluids and flush. He said it was likely a pre-existing condition as she was small when we got her and we have taken care of her the same as we have the others who turned out great. He will keep us updated.

I will keep folks updated here with what is found, in case this problem arises with anyone else.


stepnstone has given you great advice. I just want to add that only 5.5cc per feeding seems very little for a 6 wk old fox squirrel. I only raise greys -- we don't have foxers up here -- and at 6 weeks a quick glance at last season's rehab log tells me that my maniacs were guzzling 9-12cc formula 4x/day. Greys weigh a considerable amount less than foxers. I am wondering if she is simply not getting enough calories for her metabolism in order to grow properly. If you weigh her in grams, she should be taking a minimum of 5% of her body weight each feeding, and 7% is really optimal. When I have voracious babies who can digest it, I sometimes feed up to 10% of body weight unless it affects their poop.

Just thinkin'. And welcome to The Squirrel Board! :Welcome

[SammysMom]

Although this may not be totally an issue of amount of food, i would caution that 5.5cc for a 120g squirrel is low. The minimum would be 6cc and i just fed a 130g squirrel a few minutes ago and she took 10cc. Some do seem to require more to eat than others.

[Nancy in New York]

Although this may not be totally an issue of amount of food, i would caution that 5.5cc for a 120g squirrel is low. The minimum would be 6cc and i just fed a 130g squirrel a few minutes ago and she took 10cc. Some do seem to require more to eat than others.

Exactly.
When the squirrel has the 5.5 mls do you stop them, or do they stop themselves.
At a certain age, I typically go by what they want (within reason of course), they let us know.
The important thing is to make sure the tummy doesn't get hard or bloated.
Momma squirrels let them take what they want.

[island rehabber]

The 5% 'rule' is a minimum amount, not a 'limit'. I often have babies who routinely eat 10% of their body weight and do fine. So long as their poops don't go white and mushy, let them take what they need.

[Garden71]

My 6 week old fox squirrels are sucking down 12 cc with no problem. We are giving them Fox Valley 20/50 with ultra boast added in.

[Garden71]

Sorry my wife told me that they are up to 15 cc and eating HHB too.

[LaurelLynn]

Although this may not be totally an issue of amount of food, i would caution that 5.5cc for a 120g squirrel is low. The minimum would be 6cc and i just fed a 130g squirrel a few minutes ago and she took 10cc. Some do seem to require more to eat than others.

My eyes closed greys are eating about 40cc a day as 4wk olds. And foxers are bigger and eat more

[creativedreams]

Given ours are also eating monkey pellets and various local nuts they are full up by the time they hit 5-5.5 cc per feeding. No way could they be getting more than that at this stage. Our boy and girl are doing great....filled out and thick and fluffy. Our prior squirrels were on the same regimen and turned out perfectly. It was just this one with the pre-existing condition that was problematic. Upon full examination we also noticed she had a bit of a cleft palette and her teeth had not come in as normal by this age.

We will continue on with the 5 percent regimen plus monkey pellets and the nuts/fresh food as this method has worked very well for us, and for the thousands our mentor has rehabbed.

Thank you all for the input. There is a lot of great knowledge in here and the time is appreciated.

[Shewhosweptforest]

:wave123 creativedreams :grin3 cool name .... We mostly push formula for the littles because that's all momma would be feeding them at this time.....it's not to say that they won't grow and survive...as clearly many do quite well...but down the road it may be more beneficial to have the early development that formula is meant to provide....and especially if there is an underlying issue with a little one. :great

I would love to see some pics...we don't have Foxer's :( I think they are the teddy bears of the squirrel world :serene

[Shewhosweptforest]

Awww I just caught up on your thread :sorry was there any concern that the others with her may have gotten the parasite also? Of course she may have been runty to start with and had a weaker immune system, or just stressed :dono poor lil bub....please let us know how she does......she looked adorable in her pic with her "big" sister :eek :Love_Icon

[Spanky]

Given ours are also eating monkey pellets and various local nuts they are full up by the time they hit 5-5.5 cc per feeding.

This looks like a big red flag to me. We recently just had member loose a 6 week old squirrel that was very much in this same situation. A 6 week old squirrel that was being feed nuts and eating "tons of Monkey Chow" and not nearly enough formula. I dare say few of us would have even introduced nuts as a treat at this age much less a part of their diet. Monkey pellets won't replace the nutrients they get from the formula and really need at this age.

[Nancy in New York]

This looks like a big red flag to me. We recently just had member loose a 6 week old squirrel that was very much in this same situation. A 6 week old squirrel that was being feed nuts and eating "tons of Monkey Chow" and not nearly enough formula. I dare say few of us would have even introduced nuts as a treat at this age much less a part of their diet. Monkey pellets won't replace the nutrients they get from the formula and really need at this age.

Amen to this Spanky!
Why is the formula EVER limited on a squirrel this age.
No way would they be eating monkey chow and nuts if they were
with their mom.
They would only be on her milk, and she wouldn't be limiting them! :shakehead


Thank you. My mentor discourages from the fattier liquids usually but I will mention it and update folks once i hear back. any other input is appreciated.

When squirrels are under 4 weeks of age, the Fox Valley formula (the formula species specific for squirrels) is 32/40, the 40 is the fat content.

4 weeks and up, the Fox Valley formula recommended is 20/50, the 50 is the fat content.
Older squirrels need more fat.

[island rehabber]

I will chime in here to say that the fat contents in Fox Valley formulae were determined by an old, but definitive study of squirrel mothers' milk from back in the 1970's. It became clear in the study that squirrel moms' milk changes as the babies grow from newborn right through weaning time -- the protein/fat ratio changes with protein being higher when the babies are pinkies to the fat increasing as they grow to 7-8-9 weeks and beyond. This is the reason for FV's two-stage squirrel formula products.

Source material: http://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/5665/V72N01_003.pdf?sequence=1

[Mel1959]

This is no different than a human mothers milk and makes perfect sense. My guys who are almost 12 weeks haven't tasted a nut yet or monkey biscuit. They get Henry's blocks, FV formula and veggies. They have only had two servings of fruit, strawberry and apple, and they didn't eat all of either of them! :gigg