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Lighten-Up
12-21-2015, 04:12 PM
Gosh this is long, I am just so detail oriented and I care. If this is too much information, someone can tell me to make my new entries shorter.

My two girls are about 20-21 weeks old, guess that is about 5 months. Early on, I was made aware of the importance of squirrel nutrition, and so I started them out on Henrys Healthy Rodent Blocks, two a day each. And introduced first, only the vegetables in column one-broccoli etc. and column two-lettuces. Once they were really good about eating all those, I introduced them to the fun veggies in column three-sweet potato, sugar snap peas etc. And once they were eating all those, just in the last two weeks I started giving them fruit and nuts at the end of the day, basically I started this when they started fighting over their Rodent Block. I thought, now might be the time to give them nuts.

First off, I had no idea how passionate squirrels are about their nuts. It was a real awakening for me. I have never seen such passion and joy in all my life. At the same time, it caused quite a bit of bickering that had not been the case before.

Also, they still get Fox Valley formula morning and night. Up until last week they were consuming it all right away. Over the last week, they have changed, and are less excited about it, but if I leave it with them, they will finish the morning feeding over a few hours time, and eat about half of it in the evening feeding; so I will give them only about half in the evenings from now on.

They will both be released in the spring.

Here are my questions.

Q1. Since I have started giving them nuts and fruit and veggies from column three, they pretty much have no interest in the column one and two veggie items. I give column one and two items in the morning and column three items in the afternoon. They get fruit and nuts after that. They would rather eat their formula and wait for the fun stuff later on. The early veggies just sit in a pile, kind of wasteful. The pea pods, green beans, squash etc are consumed immediately in the afternoon. The fruit is eaten immediately. Wanting to do what is best for them, this bothers me, and so I am wondering if this is ok since they are on formula and block as well. Any thoughts are welcome.

Q2. One squirrel is just really good and quick about eating anything (her name is Laurel), the other one (her name is Sassafras) is rather slow and methodical about eating. Both are adorably cuties. With the nuts, this means that the fast one cracks open the nut (I pre-start a crack for now in the shell until they are older) and eats it before the second one figures out which branch would be the best branch to work on the nut with. :-) This then leads to, the first squirrel Laurel who is now done, chasing and capturing the second nut away from Sassafras. Not fair in my mind. I love them both. Is this okay? Any thoughts? Please note that Laurel has played a minor bully role, nothing too serious from what I see, just picking on her and letting her know who is in charge between them. However, just two weeks ago Sassafras went berserk, and fought back, she became so ornery against Laurel that she defended both formula dishes for an entire feeding, for hours she would not let Laurel near either of them. I was slightly amused, and actually glad for her fortitude. She only ate her portion, so eventually Laurel was able to get some, a long time later. After that, the playing field between them was a lot more level. But Laurel is still wanting to chase down the second nut. She doesn't get it every time, but it happens a lot. I am new to all of this, so I just want to make sure that I am doing my part as best as I can for them.

Q3. Since they are still on formula day and evening, I am only giving them one nut each per day. Should I be giving two nuts each per day?

Q4. Ever since I started with them, Laurel was the one who would finish up the extra formula left after Sassafras was done, that made her consistently the larger of the two. Sassafras was always a bit small in comparison. I'm not sure what happened, but about two weeks ago, Sassafras put on some weight and is a bit plump! I don't think she has rolls of fat or anything, and she is lightning fast if she hears a noise. But I just wanted to mention it, since many of us new-bies are always concerned that we are doing the right thing at all times, and this was a sudden change. Sassafras is now noticeably larger than Laurel. I'm just surprised that it happened so fast. We might have had just a little too much fun with the avocado a few weeks ago, but Laurel is not huge because of it. Needless to say, I have - because of common sense, cut back on the portions of avocado and sweet potato. But I don't think I was giving extreme amounts anyway, and not everyday. The only other note is that Sassafras is the one who would rather get a rub when I am with them, so she will sit and get a rub while Laurel runs around. But I am not in there all day, so she has plenty of other time to run around. But maybe this has something to do with it. Also, Laurel started eating less formula a few weeks ago, and Sassafras would finish hers, maybe that has something to do with it too. Any thoughts?

These two are really doing well. They play a lot with each other, and with me. They are waking up later with the days shorter, and they are tucking themselves in at about 5pm at night now. (North East US)

Any thoughts are welcome to keep me on track for giving these girls the best care as I can until spring. Thank you,
Lighten-Up

SugarHill
12-21-2015, 04:58 PM
I have noticed similar behavior when I have siblings housed together- there's usually one that's more outgoing and kind of bullies the other, especially when it comes to food. When I seen an alpha take a beta's nut, I usually sneak the beta a second nut (-; But I'm curious to know what others think. When it comes to overwintering, I just try to keep everyone as healthy and happy as possible, which isn't always easy considering they want to be free to run around the forest. So I try to switch up the veggies I give them- green beans and carrots one day, snap peas and sweet potato the next, brussel sprouts and squash on a different day. And I've made some "enrichment" toys for them out of toilet paper rolls and old Bota boxes. There's some neat ideas at

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?303726-Rabbit-toy-making-and-enrichment-activities/page4

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/382594930824142008/

http://ladytara.deviantart.com/art/Making-A-Treat-Box-Toy-262756490#comments

But I've noticed I always get the "hungry dance" when I check on them, even as their morning's veggies lay untouched in their cage. I usually don't give them any "treats" (nuts/squirrel cakes) until they've eaten most of their veggies. Of course, they could just be caching them too :shakehead

Lighten-Up
12-22-2015, 08:22 AM
I have noticed similar behavior when I have siblings housed together- there's usually one that's more outgoing and kind of bullies the other, especially when it comes to food. When I seen an alpha take a beta's nut, I usually sneak the beta a second nut (-; But I'm curious to know what others think. When it comes to overwintering, I just try to keep everyone as healthy and happy as possible, which isn't always easy considering they want to be free to run around the forest. So I try to switch up the veggies I give them- green beans and carrots one day, snap peas and sweet potato the next, brussel sprouts and squash on a different day. And I've made some "enrichment" toys for them out of toilet paper rolls and old Bota boxes. There's some neat ideas at

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?303726-Rabbit-toy-making-and-enrichment-activities/page4

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/382594930824142008/

http://ladytara.deviantart.com/art/Making-A-Treat-Box-Toy-262756490#comments

But I've noticed I always get the "hungry dance" when I check on them, even as their morning's veggies lay untouched in their cage. I usually don't give them any "treats" (nuts/squirrel cakes) until they've eaten most of their veggies. Of course, they could just be caching them too :shakehead

Thank you for your thoughts and the links for toy ideas. I am in process to get them more toys to keep them engaged, so that was very helpful. Yes, I too have noticed the "hungry dance" every time I approach, as I see their morning veggies just sitting there. I just read the "picky eaters" closed thread, and that was helpful as well to understand squirrel eating behaviors. I also read about someone who pureed avocado with the healthy veggies in an attempt to get the good veggies into them that they were ignoring. And so that is why I was wondering if they are eating block and formula, how important is it at this point that they are ignoring the healthy veggies of column one and two. If that is true, than at what point when/if they stop formula would it be more important to better enforce the good veggies?

Gardentoes11
12-22-2015, 08:58 AM
Sounds like you've read all of the same threads I have, & I'm not an experienced expert, but I will say that since my Jasper Hans eats his Henry's so well & loves his boo balls that I make for him, I worry a lot less about which veggies & fruits he eats. It's constantly changing! Sometimes he loves squash, other times he won't touch it. Sometimes kale is the best thing ever, then it'll just sit there. Sometimes he's the King of Blueberries, & other times he lets them wither. What makes me happy is that he's getting a variety, he's put on winter weight (sounds like Sassafras has too!), & he's consistently eating the one non-negotiable, which is HHB's. Sounds like your sweeties are, too--that's good! I do try to constantly introduce new veg & fruits to my boy to keep it interesting & to try to get more nutrients into him, but truthfully, he rarely likes the same things 2 weeks in a row--hard to keep up with his ever-changing tastes.

Regarding the feeding/bullying issues, would it be possible to feed them separately? Although despite the drama, it sounds like both girls are healthy, growing, & able to fend each other off when needed.

About the rapid weight gain, my Jazz proofed up pretty fast a couple of weeks ago, too. I was a little concerned that he was maybe a bit on the thin side after seeing our wilds running around outside, but then he plumped up into quite the handful of pudgy mischief almost overnight! More to love!

Regarding the number of nuts per day, the recommendation that's given over & over here on TSB is 1-2 per day. I try to balance it with whatever else Jazzy has eaten that day--if he has had some fresh corn, it's just 1 nut, bc corn is higher in phosphorous than many other veggies. And you are SO right--they really are Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde about their nuts! My sweet boy turns into the Tazmanian Devil when handed a nut! All teeth, claws, & attitude. I love to watch him enjoy them, but I'm glad when he has finished it, cuz I get my loving boy back. Totally understand the expression, "Going nuts" now!

Lighten-Up
12-22-2015, 03:48 PM
Sounds like you've read all of the same threads I have, & I'm not an experienced expert, but I will say that since my Jasper Hans eats his Henry's so well & loves his boo balls that I make for him, I worry a lot less about which veggies & fruits he eats. It's constantly changing! Sometimes he loves squash, other times he won't touch it. Sometimes kale is the best thing ever, then it'll just sit there. Sometimes he's the King of Blueberries, & other times he lets them wither. What makes me happy is that he's getting a variety, he's put on winter weight (sounds like Sassafras has too!), & he's consistently eating the one non-negotiable, which is HHB's. Sounds like your sweeties are, too--that's good! I do try to constantly introduce new veg & fruits to my boy to keep it interesting & to try to get more nutrients into him, but truthfully, he rarely likes the same things 2 weeks in a row--hard to keep up with his ever-changing tastes.

Regarding the feeding/bullying issues, would it be possible to feed them separately? Although despite the drama, it sounds like both girls are healthy, growing, & able to fend each other off when needed.

About the rapid weight gain, my Jazz proofed up pretty fast a couple of weeks ago, too. I was a little concerned that he was maybe a bit on the thin side after seeing our wilds running around outside, but then he plumped up into quite the handful of pudgy mischief almost overnight! More to love!

Regarding the number of nuts per day, the recommendation that's given over & over here on TSB is 1-2 per day. I try to balance it with whatever else Jazzy has eaten that day--if he has had some fresh corn, it's just 1 nut, bc corn is higher in phosphorous than many other veggies. And you are SO right--they really are Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde about their nuts! My sweet boy turns into the Tazmanian Devil when handed a nut! All teeth, claws, & attitude. I love to watch him enjoy them, but I'm glad when he has finished it, cuz I get my loving boy back. Totally understand the expression, "Going nuts" now!

Thank you for your reply. This board is so helpful. I have had the same experience with loving something and then not eating it. Today it was pea pods that did not get touched while before, they were sought after. ?

What is a boo ball? And yes, they are great with eating their Henry's block. I am grateful for that. I give it first thing in the morning and they are always waiting for it. Sometimes they get more in the late morning, it depends on what size they get in the morning.

I don't think I could easily feed them separately, though that is a good idea. What I have noticed about Sassafras is that she will take the bullying/picking on up till a point, BUT if she really wants something, she is able to put her foot down, and Laurel respects that. So I do feel they are both psychologically healthy.

Yes, Sassafras puffed up overnight, or in about a weeks time, which still seemed fast. She went from a svelt little athlete to something reminiscent of a chinchilla! This was a little disconcerting because I want her to be healthy. I do feel it was all the extra formula that Laurel was not drinking that played a big part. I guess I just wanted to know if there was any major health reason that might make them poof like that. But of course, it is fall/winter and so it makes complete sense seasonal timing wise, I am just new to squirrels and taking this all in at once. Since she is still able to move at lighting speed when she wants to, I will just keep an eye on it, and watch the formula intake.

Thanks on the nuts amount, and I appreciated your account of their "nut transformation"; when you said they are all teeth, claws and attitude. That about sums it up. Yes, I too am glad when the nut goes down and they become lovable little girls again.

Here's a funny nut story: It was suggested to me, when I got clawed up one of the first times giving them a nut, that I just toss the nuts in the enclosure and run. :-) After seeing how they were with a nut, this made sense to me. However, there was no way to easily toss the nuts in without going in, So I went in, and quickly tossed the two nuts on their play area thinking that they would leap for them. Next thing I knew I had one squirrel on each hand all teeth, claws and attitude desperately looking for the nut! I quickly put my hands near the nuts but to no avail. With no other options in sight, and them digging harder and harder at my hands in a "nut induced spazz", I did the only rational thing, picked up the nuts, with a squirrel on the back of each hand. :-) Squirrel and nut were quickly united, and they leaped off to a branch. Whew. I decided to just work with them to take the nuts nicely from my hands. It is getting a lot better now. I still laugh at that event. Never in my wildest thoughts did I imagine that scenario.

Gardentoes11
12-22-2015, 10:01 PM
Boo balls are healthy treats made of powdered nuts, calcium carbonate powder, Henry's Vita-mins, powdered formula, coconut oil, & fruit baby food or applesauce, mixed into a dough, rolled into balls & refrigerated or frozen. I found a recipe on here in this thread http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?52232-Squirrel-Friendly-Cook-Book&highlight=Cook+book. There are other variations posted elsewhere on here, & they're easily modified to your squirrels' tastes. I've read that they're called "boo balls" after having been developed for a member's squirrel named Boo! I used cherry applesauce in mine & rolled them in sesame seeds, which Jazzy loves! He gets one every day, which is great, bc they're healthy for him & he won't take formula anymore. He likes them straight from the freezer!

Right now, Jazz is so Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde with his nuts that I don't even try giving them to him in person anymore. He shreds my hands just like you described! While he's puttering around in another room, I put them in his cage, then shut the door real quickly when he goes in to eat it!

Lighten-Up
12-24-2015, 12:00 PM
Thank you for the Boo Balls info. I will look that up and make them, they sound great!