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Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 12:33 PM
I am new here but have been reading this entire forum and its wealth of knowledge in the care of infant squirrels from all of you experienced caregivers. I had this baby brought to me. He was found in a parking lot. He had a minor bruise on his right hand and slight bruising around the chest that made me think that he was possibly snatched by a bird and dropped since he was found in the middle of a parking lot. All of the initial procedures were done correctly: warming before feeding, rehydration therapy for the first day, and then formula fed powdered Esbilac. His stool looked pretty normal at first but then turned pasty, and then it turned more white in color and then diarrhea. He also looks bloated to me. I have attached pictures so I can get expert advice. I gave him a drop of infant gas drops. He weighs 40 grams and looks like he is just now at the 3 week old mark. I have given him pedialyte in place of his formula for his morning feeds today because he had diarrhea and then hasn't had a bowel movement for his last 3 feeds: 3 am, 6 am, 9 am. I really need an opinion on whether this looks like bloating or not. And then, what could cause diarrhea and then no bowel movements? I have been doing warm water soaks, gently massaging from the arm pits downward without much luck. I just read about the paint brush trick so I will try that. I just want to be super vigilant with this baby as I know things can go from bad to worse very quickly. I am in the progress of studying for the exam to get my wildlife rehabilitation license so this is my passion, my calling. I am new to this but I have a lot of knowledge. However, knowledge only gets you so far until you need experience! The experience of people who have been doing this a LONG time! I appreciate any feedback given, thank you for your time!
http://imgur.com/a/6Q7cU
http://i.imgur.com/sGbaDmVb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rAmRr6fb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4snOryKb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KHAevR5b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QQF8TdAb.jpg

stepnstone
12-08-2015, 02:06 PM
I am new here but have been reading this entire forum and its wealth of knowledge in the care of infant squirrels from all of you experienced caregivers. I had this baby brought to me. He was found in a parking lot. He had a minor bruise on his right hand and slight bruising around the chest that made me think that he was possibly snatched by a bird and dropped since he was found in the middle of a parking lot. All of the initial procedures were done correctly: warming before feeding, rehydration therapy for the first day, and then formula fed powdered Esbilac. His stool looked pretty normal at first but then turned pasty, and then it turned more white in color and then diarrhea. He also looks bloated to me. I have attached pictures so I can get expert advice. I gave him a drop of infant gas drops. He weighs 40 grams and looks like he is just now at the 3 week old mark. I have given him pedialyte in place of his formula for his morning feeds today because he had diarrhea and then hasn't had a bowel movement for his last 3 feeds: 3 am, 6 am, 9 am. I really need an opinion on whether this looks like bloating or not. And then, what could cause diarrhea and then no bowel movements? I have been doing warm water soaks, gently massaging from the arm pits downward without much luck. I just read about the paint brush trick so I will try that. I just want to be super vigilant with this baby as I know things can go from bad to worse very quickly. I am in the progress of studying for the exam to get my wildlife rehabilitation license so this is my passion, my calling. I am new to this but I have a lot of knowledge. However, knowledge only gets you so far until you need experience! The experience of people who have been doing this a LONG time! I appreciate any feedback given, thank you for your time!
http://imgur.com/a/6Q7cU
http://i.imgur.com/sGbaDmVb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rAmRr6fb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4snOryKb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KHAevR5b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QQF8TdAb.jpg

First off your pictures are way too small to give any real assessments by looks.
What kind Esbilac formula are you feeding, what are the amounts (cc's) you feed each feeding, and with what
are you feeding with?

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 02:26 PM
First off your pictures are way too small to give any real assessments by looks.
What kind Esbilac formula are you feeding, what are the amounts (cc's) you feed each feeding, and with what
are you feeding with?


Yes, I apologize. I was having a hard time getting them to upload from my computer. If you click on the first image, it's the only one that came out regular sized. I can email them if that or will help? I am feeding powdered Esbilac (with probiotics) with the regular 1 part formula, 2 parts water, I am using a 1 cc syringe with elongated nipple and I am feeding 1 1/2 cc's every 2 1/2 - 3 hours.

Spanky
12-08-2015, 03:08 PM
How long have you had this baby?

What type of heat source are you providing?

Are you waiting for the milk line to disappear before the next feeding?

How long ago did you give the gas drops? Does he still appear to maybe be bloated?

You can send pics to squirrelhelp @uysinc.com and I will post for you.....

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 04:57 PM
How long have you had this baby?

What type of heat source are you providing?

Are you waiting for the milk line to disappear before the next feeding?

How long ago did you give the gas drops? Does he still appear to maybe be bloated?

You can send pics to squirrel.help @uysinc.com and I will post for you.....


I have had him since Saturday. I have the baby in a clear Sterilite container - there is a heating pad on bottom with a little shoebox lined with fleece. The box is half on and half off so there is a warm side and a cool side. Yes, I am waiting for the milk line to disappear before next feeding. I gave him the gas drops at 9:15 am this morning. How much can you safely give them at this age and how often? As an update from my last post, he had a bowel movement - YAY. It was not diarrhea, more of a pale yellow curd like consistency. I know it is not ideal but it's better than diarrhea. The last warm water soak and massage is when he had his bowel movement... about an hour ago. Since his bowel movement, his belly looks less swollen. His anus does look swollen like there is more poo in there - it looks like a pale yellow dot where it's barely poking out but I have stimulated him for a while now and it is not coming out. He only pooped during the last warm water soak and massage. I'll continue with the soaks as long as it takes until he eliminates via stimulation. At this point, how should I proceed with feeding? Should I only feed pedialyte? Go back to formula? Alternate between the two? Should I still be administering the gas drops? And if so, how long should I continue with the gas drops?

Spanky, I emailed you pics.

Thank you everyone again for your time. I appreciate the feedback and advice to give this baby the best possible care.

Spanky
12-08-2015, 06:18 PM
Spanky, I emailed you pics.

I am so sorry, I typed in the wrong address... it should have been squirrelhelp@ uysinc.com (no space though), but I did add the alias squirrel.help just now so both should be good from now on. If you can just resend I will get them posted.

A new pictures post-poo might be better?


I have had him since Saturday. I have the baby in a clear Sterilite container - there is a heating pad on bottom with a little shoebox lined with fleece. The box is half on and half off so there is a warm side and a cool side. Yes, I am waiting for the milk line to disappear before next feeding. I gave him the gas drops at 9:15 am this morning. How much can you safely give them at this age and how often? As an update from my last post, he had a bowel movement - YAY. It was not diarrhea, more of a pale yellow curd like consistency. I know it is not ideal but it's better than diarrhea. The last warm water soak and massage is when he had his bowel movement... about an hour ago. Since his bowel movement, his belly looks less swollen. His anus does look swollen like there is more poo in there - it looks like a pale yellow dot where it's barely poking out but I have stimulated him for a while now and it is not coming out. He only pooped during the last warm water soak and massage. I'll continue with the soaks as long as it takes until he eliminates via stimulation. At this point, how should I proceed with feeding? Should I only feed pedialyte? Go back to formula? Alternate between the two? Should I still be administering the gas drops? And if so, how long should I continue with the gas drops?

Continue the stimulation, they need that until at least 5 weeks (eyes open). The yellow (mustard?) color is comes from the Esbilac formula, so no worries there... seems the new formula has worked its way through his little system. :thumbsup

As far as the pedialyte, you never should give anything by mouth to a bloated baby... not pedialyte and not formula.

Pedialyte should only be given if he is dehydrated, and not more than 24 hours or so. Plain water or just add a little honey if extra hydration seems necessary between feedings. But once re-hydrated the formula should provide him with plenty of hydration.

Having said that, new pictures will help. It is good that he is pooing, but since he pooped in water I have to wonder how "curdy" his poo might really be.

Is he also peeing okay?

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 06:45 PM
I am so sorry, I typed in the wrong address... it should have been squirrelhelp@ uysinc.com (no space though), but I did add the alias squirrel.help just now so both should be good from now on. If you can just resend I will get them posted.

A new pictures post-poo might be better?



Continue the stimulation, they need that until at least 5 weeks (eyes open). The yellow (mustard?) color is comes from the Esbilac formula, so no worries there... seems the new formula has worked its way through his little system. :thumbsup

As far as the pedialyte, you never should give anything by mouth to a bloated baby... not pedialyte and not formula.

Pedialyte should only be given if he is dehydrated, and not more than 24 hours or so. Plain water or just add a little honey if extra hydration seems necessary between feedings. But once re-hydrated the formula should provide him with plenty of hydration.

Having said that, new pictures will help. It is good that he is pooing, but since he pooped in water I have to wonder how "curdy" his poo might really be.

Is he also peeing okay?

Okay, re-sent pictures to you and also sent a picture of a small fragment of his bowel movement that was left on the fleece. I will take pictures of his belly in just a few minutes and will get those sent to you as well. I will wait for you to review the pictures before I feed him anything to determine whether it is or isn't bloat. His belly did look smaller after his bowel movement. I don't know if perhaps he was a bit swollen because he was backed up? I am sure we will see. How long can they go without eating anything (for example due to bloat) without dying? If this isn't bloat and if he had a bit of diarrhea prior to this incident of constipation, what is recommended for his feeding schedule? I am aware of the rules on how to use a rehydration formula and the pedialyte (I only used pedialyte rather than the homemade rehydration formula today because of the diarrhea. Prior to this he was not dehydrated and he was eating his formula. Rehydration formula was used on arrival) I'm just trying to take the proper route due to going from diarrhea to constipation and how to feed from here - provided this isn't bloat of course. Again, thank you very much for your advice and help!

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 06:50 PM
I am so sorry, I typed in the wrong address... it should have been squirrelhelp@ uysinc.com (no space though), but I did add the alias squirrel.help just now so both should be good from now on. If you can just resend I will get them posted.

A new pictures post-poo might be better?



Continue the stimulation, they need that until at least 5 weeks (eyes open). The yellow (mustard?) color is comes from the Esbilac formula, so no worries there... seems the new formula has worked its way through his little system. :thumbsup

As far as the pedialyte, you never should give anything by mouth to a bloated baby... not pedialyte and not formula.

Pedialyte should only be given if he is dehydrated, and not more than 24 hours or so. Plain water or just add a little honey if extra hydration seems necessary between feedings. But once re-hydrated the formula should provide him with plenty of hydration.

Having said that, new pictures will help. It is good that he is pooing, but since he pooped in water I have to wonder how "curdy" his poo might really be.

Is he also peeing okay?

I apologize but I forgot to answer your question regarding urination. He has been urinating although his penis and anus area are red and irritated. It bothers him when stimulated. Possibly from the diarrhea? I can take a picture of that as well and if needed.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 07:09 PM
I am so sorry, I typed in the wrong address... it should have been squirrelhelp@ uysinc.com (no space though), but I did add the alias squirrel.help just now so both should be good from now on. If you can just resend I will get them posted.

A new pictures post-poo might be better?



Continue the stimulation, they need that until at least 5 weeks (eyes open). The yellow (mustard?) color is comes from the Esbilac formula, so no worries there... seems the new formula has worked its way through his little system. :thumbsup

As far as the pedialyte, you never should give anything by mouth to a bloated baby... not pedialyte and not formula.

Pedialyte should only be given if he is dehydrated, and not more than 24 hours or so. Plain water or just add a little honey if extra hydration seems necessary between feedings. But once re-hydrated the formula should provide him with plenty of hydration.

Having said that, new pictures will help. It is good that he is pooing, but since he pooped in water I have to wonder how "curdy" his poo might really be.

Is he also peeing okay?

Spanky, I tried to resend pictures to both emails and they were all sent back :dono

Spanky
12-08-2015, 07:10 PM
Pics:

Rehabber-In-Training
12-08-2015, 07:26 PM
I just took new pictures before stimulation time. It looks as if there were minor poops in his box and on his body so hopefully he will produce something when I stimulate him this time. While taking pictures, his belly looks so much better! I am thinking he might not have bloat after all. We will see after expert review but it looks loads better than earlier today! Sending them to you now Spanky.

Edited to add that you can see in a few of these pictures what I mean about how angry and red his genitals are.

Spanky
12-08-2015, 07:28 PM
I am hoping some "real experts" will weigh in soon. But if you still feel he is bloated, giving another drop of infant Gas-X will not hurt and can only help.

Is his belly hard or more soft, like a water balloon?


How long can they go without eating anything (for example due to bloat) without dying?

For a little guy like yours, not more than a few days. Of course, lack of hydration is more deadly than lack of food. Do I understand that for the first 24 hours (Sat - Sun) he only got hydration fluid? Then formula on Monday which brings us to today and the suspected bloat. How many formula feedings did he get today?

It could well be this is just a result of his little system adjusting to the change from wholesome mommy's milk to human manufactured formula.


... what is recommended for his feeding schedule?

The "rule of thumb" is 5-7% of body weight each feeding and every 3 hours for 3 week old babies. So for a 40 gram baby that is 2ml - 2.8ml of formula.

Edit: The every 3 hours is around the clock at this age!

Spanky
12-08-2015, 07:38 PM
I just took new pictures before stimulation time. It looks as if there were minor poops in his box and on his body so hopefully he will produce something when I stimulate him this time. While taking pictures, his belly looks so much better! I am thinking he might not have bloat after all. We will see after expert review but it looks loads better than earlier today! Sending them to you now Spanky.

Edited to add that you can see in a few of these pictures what I mean about how angry and red his genitals are.

Pics attached.

What are you using to stimulate him to go potty? You can use a little Neosporin on his penis, just make sure it is not the "pain relief" or anti-itch formulations.

I think his belly looks good in these pictures (but I wish others could confirm) and I suspect what he was experiencing was just the adjustment in the change from mommy formula to Esbilac.

stepnstone
12-08-2015, 08:29 PM
I agree he does not appear bloated and is most likely adjusting to the formula.
Many of our members start with 3-1 and graduate after several feedings to the
2-1 formula mix in beginning to allow for adjusting and extra hydration. Then go
to hydrating in between regular feedings if necessary.

Does he appear fully hydrated when you do the pinch test?

His genitals and butt could use a little neosporin as suggested. You do want to
keep a good eye out and make sure he is not suckling himself.
At least until his system has adjusted itself to "normal," I would hold him at the
5% of body weight feedings.

Spanky
12-08-2015, 08:47 PM
You do want to keep a good eye out and make sure he is not suckling himself.
At least until his system has adjusted itself to "normal," I would hold him at the
5% of body weight feedings.

Just to clarify, at 5% that would be 2ml for a 40 gram squirrel which is a bit more than the 1.5ml you have been feeding. Under feeding can lead to them suckling themselves and his little system does need to adjust to the new normal. It is a fine line that requires vigilance. :thumbsup

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 10:07 AM
I am hoping some "real experts" will weigh in soon. But if you still feel he is bloated, giving another drop of infant Gas-X will not hurt and can only help.

Is his belly hard or more soft, like a water balloon?



For a little guy like yours, not more than a few days. Of course, lack of hydration is more deadly than lack of food. Do I understand that for the first 24 hours (Sat - Sun) he only got hydration fluid? Then formula on Monday which brings us to today and the suspected bloat. How many formula feedings did he get today?

It could well be this is just a result of his little system adjusting to the change from wholesome mommy's milk to human manufactured formula.



The "rule of thumb" is 5-7% of body weight each feeding and every 3 hours for 3 week old babies. So for a 40 gram baby that is 2ml - 2.8ml of formula.

Edit: The every 3 hours is around the clock at this age!


Sorry I am just now replying to these posts! I have been SO busy with this little guy, constantly monitoring and taking care of him. I will answer your questions and then give an update because it's been up and down.

He belly continued to look fine through the evening and night. It looks pretty normal now. It had been a little firm before the bowel movement - not super hard. However after the bowel movement, it felt more soft, like a water balloon. He has not had a bowel movement since the one from yesterday at about 3:45 pm.

Yes, he did receive hydration fluid for the first 24 hours and then started on Esbilac. It was regular strength (2 - 1) but I was able to read the replies from this thread (just didn't have time to reply in the moment), I did immediately switch to 3 - 1. He only had 2 formula feedings yesterday (12 pm and 6 pm) but was switched back to pedialyte after seeing that he was dehydrated after tent test. He feeds every 3 hours: 6 am, 9 am, 12 pm, 3 pm, 6pm, 9 pm, 12 am, 3 am.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 10:30 AM
Again, I apologize for just now responding but I have been caring for and constantly monitoring this little guy around the clock.
So for an update, I noticed at his 6 pm feed that he was dehydrated. This was confirmed with the pinch test. He only had 2 formula feedings yesterday. His morning feeds were pedialyte due to the diarrhea and no bowel movements. After I realized that he was dehydrated during his 6 pm feed, I gave him pedialyte for his 9 pm feed and his 12 am feed - then switched to hydration fluid for his 3 am, 6 am, and 9 am feeds. The last one had a bit of apple juice added due to no bowel movements since the one from yesterday at 3:45. He appears to be urinating. It is visible on the white fleece that lines his bin. His genitals have gotten way worse which is why I can only determine urination on the fleece. I have stopped stimulating him with any tools. He has still been getting warm water soaks with gentle massaging and I will VERY gently (with a gloved hand and a bit of coconut oil on the tip of my gloved finger) stimulate him but it's next to impossible to see urination. I will attempt to post a picture of the genitals. Under water when his skin is saturated, it looks blistered. Started neosporin as soon as I read the comment. I had previously been putting a little coconut oil on his genitals. Is there anything else I can do aside from the neosporin? His genitals are SO raw! How long should he stay on hydration fluid? Until he is no longer dehydrated? Should I feed him any formula or no? Should I do a combination of hydration fluid and formula? I just want to make sure I am doing the right things for him as his state changes. He is not lethargic or weak. He's still very squiggly and crawls around and on top of his fleece and rice buddy. The dehydration worries me though and I really hope it doesn't get any worse :sadness

I wanted to state again so it is known - he eats every 3 hours: 6 am, 9, am, 12 pm, 3 pm, 6 pm, 9 pm, 12 am, 3 am.

Again, any advice is very much appreciated! Thanks to everyone again.

DarkLies212
12-09-2015, 11:08 AM
No pedialyte after 48 hours. It'll start to dehydrate him after that. You can offer plain water or water with a bit of honey in it. My head isn't working right, so I probably wont' answer all of your questions so please forgive me.

DON'T combine pedialyte and formulas. Not sure what it does, but it's very bad for the babies.

Is his belly now hard due to no bowel movement?

What color is his urine that you see on the fleece?

Am I right in my understanding that he started having these problems once he got on esbilac? Just a thought (definitely wait until others chime in), but maybe you could try the goats milk formula or even Fox Valley in case it's a reaction to the esbilac?

Would you be open to rehabbers helping you out in person?

Spanky
12-09-2015, 02:09 PM
I know DarkLies posted this already but it bears repeating: If he is still dehydrated, do not give any more "salt" (pedialyte, homemade or store bought)... just some plain water; you can add some apple juice. Formula should be given separately from the hydration.

With the poops, since he only had 2 feedings yesterday, are his poops in line with his intact? And keep in mind switching to 3:1 formula cuts down the amount of solids he is eating by 30%, so less solids less poops (along with less feedings, less poops). I would not withhold formula (assuming he is hydrated) because he goes a few hours without poop. After about 20 - 24 hours I may start to get concerned. He will not be "regular" until he is stabilized and his feeding schedule is regular. It does often take some time for them to adjust to the new (less than perfect) formula from mommy's perfect formula.

stepnstone
12-09-2015, 03:46 PM
. He appears to be urinating. It is visible on the white fleece that lines his bin. His genitals have gotten way worse which is why I can only determine urination on the fleece. I have stopped stimulating him with any tools. He has still been getting warm water soaks with gentle massaging and I will VERY gently (with a gloved hand and a bit of coconut oil on the tip of my gloved finger)stimulate him but it's next to impossible to see urination.http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/word/what-smiley-emoticon.gifAre you afraid to properly handle this baby?
Do you have a vet that will see him? Would you like us to try and find you some help with this baby?

The only "tools" that should be used on a baby's penis is a damp bare fingertip, cotton ball or cue tip. The idea is to simulate mother's tongue/lick by a gentle flicking motion to get them to pass urine and bowel.
By now his penis may be obstructed, when these conditions persist the tip can become sealed over. This is a serious condition and can lead to death, he may need anti biotics. I'm wondering if the "bloat" you think you've seen could actually be from the inability to empty his bladder. You need to know if he is able to pass his urinate!

As for his formula feedings I would recommend regular strength 2-1 with hydration given in between regular formula feeds until he is completely hydrated.
Hydration feeds do not have to be in the same amounts as formula feedings.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 04:27 PM
No pedialyte after 48 hours. It'll start to dehydrate him after that. You can offer plain water or water with a bit of honey in it. My head isn't working right, so I probably wont' answer all of your questions so please forgive me.

DON'T combine pedialyte and formulas. Not sure what it does, but it's very bad for the babies.

Is his belly now hard due to no bowel movement?

What color is his urine that you see on the fleece?

Am I right in my understanding that he started having these problems once he got on esbilac? Just a thought (definitely wait until others chime in), but maybe you could try the goats milk formula or even Fox Valley in case it's a reaction to the esbilac?

Would you be open to rehabbers helping you out in person?

I have stopped pedialyte as of late last night/early morning and switched to water with a bit of apple juice. I have not combined the pedialyte and formula - I know better than that! His belly is not hard. It's not super soft, maybe slightly more firm than normal but still feels more like a water balloon. His urine was yellow. I am posting a picture as soon as I finish responding. He did start exhibiting these problems once he was on the Esbilac. He was getting 2 -1 but after the advice on this board, his formulas feedings were immediately switched to 3 -1. I am ordering Fox Valley today. Not sure how long it takes to get here but should I try goats milk formula in the meantime or just keep him on 3 -1 Esbilac? And yes, I would be open to meeting rehabbers in person if there are any close to where I am at.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 04:41 PM
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/word/what-smiley-emoticon.gifAre you afraid to properly handle this baby?
Do you have a vet that will see him? Would you like us to try and find you some help with this baby?

The only "tools" that should be used on a baby's penis is a damp bare fingertip, cotton ball or cue tip. The idea is to simulate mother's tongue/lick by a gentle flicking motion to get them to pass urine and bowel.
By now his penis may be obstructed, when these conditions persist the tip can become sealed over. This is a serious condition and can lead to death, he may need anti biotics. I'm wondering if the "bloat" you think you've seen could actually be from the inability to empty his bladder. You need to know if he is able to pass his urinate!

As for his formula feedings I would recommend regular strength 2-1 with hydration given in between regular formula feeds until he is completely hydrated.
Hydration feeds do not have to be in the same amounts as formula feedings.

No, I am not afraid to handle this baby - I'm just not afraid to ask for advice to make sure he is getting the best care possible. Like I said, I am in the process of studying for the Florida exam to obtain my wildlife rehabbers license. I have done my homework and extensive research. Like I said in an earlier post, you can have all the knowledge in the world but long term experience is better in trying to diagnose and treat issues that arise in mammals this small. I am capable of doing everything this baby needs but I welcome ANY advice from people who have been doing this for a long time. Yes, I have a vet that can see him - who treats exotics and wildlife. If he needs to be taken to the vet, I can and will take him immediately. I know how to stimulate a baby. Sometimes when the usual tactics are not working, you have to try other things which is exactly what I am doing. I have used cotton balls, q-tips, and warm SOFT cloth but when his genitals are this raw, I can't continue to use those tools knowing that it hurts him and is just making it worse. A latex glove with coconut oil on the fingertip is MUCH more gentle than cotton balls or cloth at this point. If his genital irritation is life threatening, I will surely take him to the vet if that is what he requires. He IS urinating. It just seems that his genitals went raw and irritated very quickly. I am literally giving him around the clock care. I am a stay at home mom who does not work. He has my full attention and I am completely dedicated to him and his care. I just really wanted the opinions of experts and longtime caregivers to make sure I was and am making all of the right decisions for him. Thank you all again. Pictures to come of his urine and genitals.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 04:47 PM
Here is the urine on his fleece so you all can get an idea of the color... it's slightly yellow


http://i.imgur.com/eHrhGFo.jpg

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 05:25 PM
Sorry these pictures are so large. If they need to be deleted and reposted in a different manner, please let me know.

Here is a picture of what his genitals look like BEFORE he goes in the water for a warm soak. He HAS been receiving neosporin on his genitals. Is there anything else I can do for him?
http://i.imgur.com/8u2nuDJ.jpg

Here are what his genitals look like AFTER I have soaked him in warm water in an attempt to make him have a bowel movement. It looks worse once he has soaked but I think it's the water's effect on his blistered looking genitals.http://i.imgur.com/sGASkGu.jpg

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 05:48 PM
Could the genital irritation be an effect of the diarrhea? As in the diarrhea irritating his genitals/skin?

Spanky
12-09-2015, 05:59 PM
I am not sure why things look like they do after the warm water soaks. Is there any chance this is the coconut oil or the Neosporin?

As far as switching around the formula, I personally would not switch again. The constant switching will just demand that his body continue to adjust to something "new". And for what it is worth (and there are many more with more experience than I) but what I perceive as the general consensus (fall 2015) Esbilac is the preferred formula for babies up to at least 5 weeks. The Fox Valley 32/40 is suspected to have had ill effects on "pinkies" this year. At five weeks old, the "consensus" seems to me to be half and half of Esbilac and Fox Valley 20/50.

The little guy does not seem dehydrated in these pics, but pictures of his back would be helpful. And his stools?

He only had 2 feedings yesterday, so I have to wonder what he has in him to "poop" out? :dono

Have you observed him suckling himself at all? I just have to wonder if the little guy is starting to get very hungry, since the 1.5ml he was getting was not quite enough and it seems he has not really had a regular feeding schedule.

I will put this out there again... when switching formula (from mom to manufactured) he will need to adjust, and not pooping for a few hours should not be a cause for alarm. If he goes a day without pooping when he is getting fed every 3 hours, or if he develops bloat, then I would start getting concerned.

farm mom
12-09-2015, 07:04 PM
I would keep him on the 1 to 3 ratio for now and feed it every 3 hours. If there is poop in his box then he is not constipated. Sometimes they don't poop every time after eating. They should pee though. Only stimulate with a cotton ball. Once he pees be done. Apply antibiotic ointment to his raw areas and back to bed. Apple juice can cause diarrhea. You can hydrate in between feedings if needed with plain water. But only a cc at the most. You want him empty and hungry for the next feeding. I would weigh him morning and evening before feeding to make sure he's gaining weight. Hang in there, your doing fine. Sometimes we over do thing because we worry too much. :)

CritterMom
12-09-2015, 07:29 PM
Could the genital irritation be an effect of the diarrhea? As in the diarrhea irritating his genitals/skin?

You bet it can - it is very caustic and their skin is so delicate when they are babies. You need to keep him as clean as humanly possible - and make sure of course that he stays warm while you do and after.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-09-2015, 09:27 PM
I would keep him on the 1 to 3 ratio for now and feed it every 3 hours. If there is poop in his box then he is not constipated. Sometimes they don't poop every time after eating. They should pee though. Only stimulate with a cotton ball. Once he pees be done. Apply antibiotic ointment to his raw areas and back to bed. Apple juice can cause diarrhea. You can hydrate in between feedings if needed with plain water. But only a cc at the most. You want him empty and hungry for the next feeding. I would weigh him morning and evening before feeding to make sure he's gaining weight. Hang in there, your doing fine. Sometimes we over do thing because we worry too much. :)

Thank you farm mom, that's exactly what I'm going to continue with until his digestion and bowel movements stabilize. There hasn't been any poop in his box but he continues to urinate. I am definitely keeping him clean and keeping his genitals covered with neosporin at all times so it doesn't scab. I am weighing him daily and he has lost a little under 2 grams which concerns me but I'm sure it's likely from the diarrhea. He was 40 grams but weighed 38.4 today. I'm hoping that turns around quickly as he gets more formula feeds and less hydration. He drank 2 cc's of 3 -1 formula at his 6 pm feed and a little over 2 cc's of formula at his 9 pm feed so I am really hoping for a bowel movement soon! Thank you so much for your help!

Rehabber-In-Training
12-10-2015, 09:58 AM
He had a bowel movement during his warm water soak at his 4 am feed. Again, the last bowel movement before that was Tuesday at 3:45 pm. He had it while in the water so it's more challenging to know an exact consistency. He has been getting formula (3 -1 ) at every feed. I do not think he is dehydrated any longer although I may give him some water with honey at least once at some point today. Should I continue with infant gas drops or no?

I am attaching a picture of his bowel movement just so you all can see and offer any opinion you may have. Hopefully he has some more bowel movements today and I am of course keeping him cleaned and covered with Neosporin for his genitals. I really hope they improve because his genitals look absolutely terrible... poor little guy :sadness Here's to hoping this little guy can and does continue to show some improvement!


http://i.imgur.com/pzPEv0y.jpg

Rehabber-In-Training
12-10-2015, 04:55 PM
So I go to weigh in the baby before 3:00 feed and he has lost 4 grams since yesterday! And he has been on all formula feeds since yesterday afternoon. He did end up having a second and third bowel movement so I was very happy about that. I did notice he looked noticeably thinner so I weighed him. Why would he lose so much weight in a little less than 24 hours? What can I do aside from continuing to feed him to keep him from losing any more weight? Any help would be much appreciated!

Spanky
12-10-2015, 06:01 PM
Are you still giving 3:1 Esbilac or have you increased the concentration at all? It may be time to consider bumping it up some.

Are you feeding 5% of body weight per feeding (so for 40 grams that would be 2ml)?

Also, are you mixing the Esbilac ahead of time (and storing in fridge)? It's best to let is sit after mixing a few hours, preferably 8 or more to allow the powder to fully dissolve which will make it easier to digest.

Rehabber-In-Training
12-10-2015, 07:25 PM
Are you still giving 3:1 Esbilac or have you increased the concentration at all? It may be time to consider bumping it up some.

Are you feeding 5% of body weight per feeding (so for 40 grams that would be 2ml)?

Also, are you mixing the Esbilac ahead of time (and storing in fridge)? It's best to let is sit after mixing a few hours, preferably 8 or more to allow the powder to fully dissolve which will make it easier to digest.

Yes, still doing 3:1 on the Esbilac. Should I move on to 2:1?

Yes, although he is less than the 40 grams that he originally was, every feeding he has been getting 2 cc's/ml. He continues to excrete poop, slowly but surely. Up until now, I make his formula before every feeding, get it warm, and then feed. So it is better to mix it ahead of time? Like maybe in the mornings and evenings? Is it alarming for him to lose that much weight in a 24 hour period or is it to be expected after missing formula feedings and needing to be rehydrated instead? I just hate to see him look so skinny in such a short period of time. However, he is still very active, spunky, moving and climbing and eating at every feed so I suppose those are all great signs. It just concerned me to see him drop weight so quickly :(

CritterMom
12-10-2015, 07:40 PM
I would VERY SLOWLY work up to 2:1 - never make a change like that suddenly. And yes, the longer the formula powder is in contact with water the better it dissolves, and that means it can be utilized by their bodies better. Making one bigger batch once a day is better - keep it refrigerated, and take small amounts out of that container to heat and use each time. Once heated, I never re-use - I dump the leftover from each feeding.

Spanky
12-10-2015, 08:14 PM
I would VERY SLOWLY work up to 2:1 - never make a change like that suddenly. And yes, the longer the formula powder is in contact with water the better it dissolves, and that means it can be utilized by their bodies better. Making one bigger batch once a day is better - keep it refrigerated, and take small amounts out of that container to heat and use each time. Once heated, I never re-use - I dump the leftover from each feeding.

:goodpost
Yes, thank you CM... I should have been more precise instead of saying "bumping it up some". He was on 3:1 for around an entire day I believe. Maybe go to 2.5:1 for 18 - 24 hours and if he continues to do well, then graduate him to 2:1.

Is the redness and irritation in his genitals improving? Have you witnessed anything that may be self suckling?

Hang in there, he seems to be heading on the right track now and improving. It's always a roller coaster ride with the ups and down and we worry ourselves sick that we are doing everything we should and doing it right. Like learning to drive, it takes some time to in learning to avoid both over-correcting and under-correcting. :thumbsup

Chickenlegs
12-10-2015, 11:45 PM
Just looked at the pix of his poor little boy parts. Have they improved? I've had really good results with either A&D ointment or Desitin. The Desitin has zinc oxide in it so it shouldn't be used when it could be licked but it sure clears up urine scald--diaper rash by any other name. Both are water proof and soothing to badly irritated skin.

farm mom
12-14-2015, 01:11 PM
Sounds like he's doing better. Work him back up to the 2 to 1 ratio of formula. Keep him on that for 2 days and lets see if he gains weight. Stay away from the honey and any sugar stuff. That tends to pull liquid from the body to the bowel and will cause diarrhea and dehydration. I would also stop the soaking and just keep some ointment on his private parts. Less is always better. Use a cotton ball with either some ointment on it or some baby oil on it to potty him. Keep up the good work. Once we get the digestive stuff straightened out then we will work on getting some more weight on him. :great