Don't know what's going on need help!!

[Kisbell17]

I have a female red squirrel. I'd say she's about 7ish months old. She is acting kind of funny today and when I went to feed her I noticed her back/spine area is like standing up and beside is is sunk down and her sides are like puffed out. I have no other way to explain it is have no idea what's going on with her and I'm kind of worried this has never happened with her before. She also got really defense of her fooder and like lunged at me through her cage that has also never happened before. Can someone please tell me whatsomething going on and if I should be worried or not?

[SammysMom]

Welcome Kisbell! We will need more info and a picture would really help. Can you tell us how long you have had her, what she eats every day, what formula she was on and how long ago she was weaned? Include any and all snacks and treats that she eats regularly as well.

[Kisbell17]

Here is a picture of what I'm talking about. This just happened today as she didn't look like this last night

[pappy1264]

Can you get a pic? She could have fallen and injured herself. If she has a stash, the lunging could be her protecting that, as well, although with the weird body stuff, she could just be in pain, as well. She also may be wilding up, as well.

[Kisbell17]

Ive had her since she was 3/4 weeks old. So like 7 months. She eats a little bit of rat food and rodent block and I'm trying to switch her over to the rodent block. Umm she stopped eating formula quite awhile ago I can't really remember when but I made sure she was ready she stopped wanting it herself. Ummmm she gets a few random snacks she had a pretzel a few days ago and she usually gets some nuts as treats. She was on a pretty expensive puppy formula I can't remember the name. Sorry I'm kinda all overy the place I'm just really nervous.

[Kisbell17]

Thelse are the best pictures I could get as she won't hold still. And she could've easily feel she is very clumsy as she has no tail.

[SammysMom]

So there is a reflection or something that makes the pic difficult to see. Is it just the fur along her spine that is standing up straight? Her body is otherwise normal? THe behavior may be hormonal.

[Milo's Mom]

Is her belly area hard or soft?

[Nancy in New York]

I just turned the photo for better viewing.
When/if she comes back on the board, we need to correct the diet.

https://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-HsSc3FS/0/M/i-HsSc3FS-M.jpg

[pappy1264]

Ok, first thing, she is a fox squirrel, not a red. Reds are much smaller. When you say rat food, do you mean the kind with sunflower seeds? Her diet sounds very void of calcium, and if she has been on this for a while, she could have soft bones and injured herself. I would first off, start the MBD treatment (it won't hurt her if it is not a calcium issue, but based on her diet, it is a real possibility.) You will need to clean out any stashes she has, as she will guard them. She should be getting greens, good veggies, a piece or two of good fruits, rodent block, and an in shell nut as a treat. But if this is MBD you will want to remove all nuts for now and NO CORN (many rat foods have sunflower seeds and corn as a huge part of the blend and they love to eat them, but are very bad for them.)

Emergency Treatment for MBD

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

[Kisbell17]

Ohkay thank you guys so much! I will clean her cage and go out and get a bunch of veggies and more food for her in the morning! Thanks for the help

[Kisbell17]

And I lied she has been eating guinea pig food. I got it because it didn't have all the seeds in it. And I totally meant a fox squirrel I was in a hurry.

[SammysMom]

Kisbell, she really needs to start that MBD treatment. We understand that it is not easy to know the right thing to do. Now that you are here we will help you through all of it. I found TSB because the baby I was raising got MBD. He lived and is a happy healthy squirrel. What kind of rat blocks do you have?

[Kisbell17]

It's usually either the kaytee brand or the essential brand depends on what the store has. Is there a better one she should be on? And I know we don't have any tums or calcium pill I'm going to go get some later tonight I don't have a way right now. Do you know if they have any vitamins that you can like put in their water or that I could give her daily to help her out? And I hear antlers for her to chew on help with calcium to?

[SammysMom]

Antlers help with calcium. Is there any way to get a clearer picture? It looks like you are taking it through glass or plastic. Her tummy wasn't large before, but it is now bloated? Is it hard or soft?

[Kisbell17]

Yes I will get a better picture after dinner and it was through her cage door she had to big of an attitude so I gave her her space but I will get a better picture in like 20 minutes and feel her tummy

[SammysMom]

I can's stress enough how important it is to get the Tums. Get fruit flavored, not mint of any kind. Be sure you have a syringe with no needle to give her Tums and water mixture. You can also offer her a Tums to eat herself as some of them do eat them because they like the taste. However, she has got to actually get them into her and not chew them up so be aware of how much she is actually eating and supplement with the water/Tums mixture anyway.

[pappy1264]

Guinea pig food as in pellets? Def. start the MBD protocol. Also, has she been pooping normally?

[Nancy in New York]

Just something I wanted to pass along that a member posted once.
When giving calcium, the calcium that counts is the elemental calcium

Please read below so you will understand what to look for when buying the tums.

https://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-WV2PZ3P/0/L/i-WV2PZ3P-L.jpg

https://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-Pcrd34J/0/O/i-Pcrd34J.jpg

[Kisbell17]

She was pooping normally last night everything changed and or got worse over night I guess. Her tummy is Hader than normal and her back is not as bad as it was earlier this is the best pictures I could get she was super excited and curious of my phone so she wouldn't hold still. And I will start the tums thing later tonight I can't get anything till my boyfriend get home from work but I will start it as soon as possible. And yes she's been eating the bags of guinea pig food you get at Walmart it was the same as the rat food she had just a lot less seeds. I'm going out to get all new food and clean her cage later tonight as well. Is there a certain foods you recommend that they sell at petsmart as that's the only close pet store? And which tums do you recommend like strength wise? I feel really bad 😔

[Kisbell17]

Oh and that brown liquid looking stuff in the bottom of her cage is a water bottle. She loves playing with them

[SammysMom]

First off...no point feeling bad, you're here to fix it and you can do that now. Petsmart usually carries Kaytee and Oxbow. I give mine the oxbow for adult rats. Either of the oxbows are fine. If all they have is Kaytee or another brand, be sure to get the one that is sort of large pieces and not a mixture of other things like seeds. It looks less appealing than the seed mixes, but it is healthier. Whichever Tums they have are fine, just use the info Nancy posted to figure out how much is actually in it. Don't get the chews as they are hard to mix with water.

[SammysMom]

Going forward, the best blocks are from henryspets.com and they are made for squirrels specifically. These are the ones that I use:
http://www.henryspets.com/picky-blocks-adult-formula/

[Kisbell17]

Thank you guys so much!! I will keep you updated and will order those once I get money in the bank. Do they happen to sell those in bigger bags?

[SammysMom]

No, but they keep in the freezer and the shipping is flat rate so it doesn't matter how many you purchase and the shipping will be the same. I buy a bunch at a time. :grin3

[Kisbell17]

She ate a tums I gave her some more rodent block and a few veggies. She stashed some of it. I'm cleaning her cage tomorrow so it's no big deal. But she seems really bloated. I don't think she's pooped in a while. Is there anything I can give her to maybe help her poop like a laxative or something?

[Nancy in New York]

She ate a tums I gave her some more rodent block and a few veggies. She stashed some of it. I'm cleaning her cage tomorrow so it's no big deal. But she seems really bloated. I don't think she's pooped in a while. Is there anything I can give her to maybe help her poop like a laxative or something?

Can you post a picture of her tummy?
You could give her some prune juice, just a little, ~ 1 cc to start.

[Kisbell17]

Ohkay I'll have to get a picture tomorrow I'm already in bed and she's done in her box asleep lol

[SammysMom]

Is there any chance you have a local vet who would safely see her?

[Nancy in New York]

Ohkay I'll have to get a picture tomorrow I'm already in bed and she's done in her box asleep lol

OK
Another thing you can try for constipation is apple juice in water about a 50/50 ratio.
Apple juice contains pectin and this will help draw water into the "gut" making the stools softer.

Typically constipation is caused from dehydration.
Make sure your water bottle is working. Check that little ball daily.

[Kisbell17]

Thanks I would've never thought of that and it works a little too much it's constantly dripping

[Kisbell17]

Here's a few pictures of her this morning she looked just like she did yesterday morning. She has eaten another tums this morning with no problem she got out and played but shes still not acting how she usually does. She loves to be held and pet and she wasn't having none of that. She did play with her toy for a little bit too but not as much as usual. And I have a weird question what color are her teeth supposed to be?

[SammysMom]

Their teeth, when healthy are orange...:grin3 I bet you looked at her teeth and though "OMG!!! THEY'RE ORANGE!!!"
How old did you say she is? Maybe her behavior is a combination of low calcium and hormones. :dono

[Kisbell17]

I'm thinking it's kind of hormonal also. And yeah I wanted to make sure that her teeth was normal lol. And shoot I had a rough guesstament birthday wrote down and finally found it she's actually about 9 months old 😮. And I just seen the thing about a vet. And would I be able to take her to a vet cause I don't have my permit to have her yet and I'm not a rehabilitator?

[Mommaluvy]

Ok..

Could she have MBD sure can. So I won't comment there. I would treat.

I can see the prominent spine your talking about in those pictures. And yes that looks really weird. So..tell us more about how she ended up with you. She was 3/4 weeks old ? Any idea what happened to her tail? I am just curious .and wondering it its growth from an old injury or something.. I dunno but sometimes I think the back story is important.

She does not appear emaciated but that prominence of the spine is really weird.
Any chance of Vet care?

[SammysMom]

You would only be able to take her to a vet if you had a confirmed safe vet. I have a list, but none are in your area.
Okay, at nine months, this is probably hormonal, but I would still keep up the additional calcium and chance her diet to reflect the healthy guide in our Nutrition forum. Keep a close eye on her and keep up up on what is happening. You're one of us now, so don't go anywhere. We will want to follow her progress...:grin3

[Kisbell17]

I will keep you guys updated. And is there any safe vets any where in michigan? And I got her at 3/4 weeks. I got her and her brother but he ended up dying of an unknown cause I think maybe pneumonia. Theyre eyes werent onpen when i got them. At the time my boyfriend worked in the tree service and when they were cutting up the trees they ended up cutting her tail off and it burned it it instantly so it didn't bleed. They picked the log up to move it and they fell out. They didn't know they were in there. He sat them where the tree was all day to see if the mom would come back and get them and she didn't so he brought them home and I bottle fed them and bandaged up her tail. It never seemed to hurt her for us to touch it and mess with it. She ended up being super healthy and active until now. She is very clumsy though she fallspice every now and then. She also throws herself all over the bottom of the cage with her toys so she could've hurt herself. Here's a picture of how big they were when I got them. You can really only see the boy as she liked to sleep under everything in a ball

[Nancy in New York]

I will keep you guys updated. And is there any safe vets any where in michigan? And I got her at 3/4 weeks. I got her and her brother but he ended up dying of an unknown cause I think maybe pneumonia. Theyre eyes werent onpen when i got them. At the time my boyfriend worked in the tree service and when they were cutting up the trees they ended up cutting her tail off and it burned it it instantly so it didn't bleed. They picked the log up to move it and they fell out. They didn't know they were in there. He sat them where the tree was all day to see if the mom would come back and get them and she didn't so he brought them home and I bottle fed them and bandaged up her tail. It never seemed to hurt her for us to touch it and mess with it. She ended up being super healthy and active until now. She is very clumsy though she fallspice every now and then. She also throws herself all over the bottom of the cage with her toys so she could've hurt herself. Here's a picture of how big they were when I got them. You can really only see the boy as she liked to sleep under everything in a ball

What city or town are you in.
We can see if we have any trusted members nearby
that may have a vet.

This picture is just precious. :Love_Icon
When you say bottle fed. Did you actually use a bottle?
If so, they are not recommended as they can easily aspirate.
I'm just telling you this for the future. With your boyfriend being
a tree cutter, you KNOW you will be bound to get in more little ones
needing your help. :hug

[Milo's Mom]

Any chance this could be related to the cedar chips in the bottom of the cage? I doubt it, but figured I'd mention it since they are known to be not so good.

[Kisbell17]

No I used a syringe! I should've specified lol. And oh I didn't know those were bad!! What else could I put in the bottom of her cage cause the bottom is just wood and it's pretty hard to clean

[Kisbell17]

Oh and I'm in flint/burton michigan

[SammysMom]

Carefree litter is what i use. It is actually sold as bedding I think. It's where the hamster stuff is in petco etc. Or I buy it on amazon.

[Kisbell17]

Oh awesome ohkay I'll have to get some next time I'm out!

[Mommaluvy]

I will keep you guys updated. And is there any safe vets any where in michigan? And I got her at 3/4 weeks. I got her and her brother but he ended up dying of an unknown cause I think maybe pneumonia. Theyre eyes werent onpen when i got them. At the time my boyfriend worked in the tree service and when they were cutting up the trees they ended up cutting her tail off and it burned it it instantly so it didn't bleed. They picked the log up to move it and they fell out. They didn't know they were in there. He sat them where the tree was all day to see if the mom would come back and get them and she didn't so he brought them home and I bottle fed them and bandaged up her tail. It never seemed to hurt her for us to touch it and mess with it. She ended up being super healthy and active until now. She is very clumsy though she fallspice every now and then. She also throws herself all over the bottom of the cage with her toys so she could've hurt herself. Here's a picture of how big they were when I got them. You can really only see the boy as she liked to sleep under everything in a ball


I have seen a case like that. Almost exactly what happened to some a friend of mine got last year. It turned out ok.
Hmm.. Just wondering if the motion of the chain saw could have cause some minor twisting of the spine to make it present like that. Probably not. Just brainstorming.

I know some say that their tails are SUPER important with balance. And others, not so much. I have personally seen two.. One of which I know made it in the wild. ( Bobby as I called him was born wild.. No idea why he had a bunny like tail. Bird? Cat? ) he seemed to have no problem .

But he was a grey and this is a foxer so the tail loss could cause the instability. That said MBD defiantly does.

Is she on the MBD protocol yet?
I also ditto the cedar shavings removal. Not good for the rodent lungs.

Any chance of a video of her displaying instability or clumsiness ?
Yes please keep us posted.. Good or bad.

[Kisbell17]

And her backs never looked like this before so i dont think its any old injury but you never know. She does good most times but I can try and get a video of her and yeah I've seen a couple wild squirrels with no tail and they seemed to be doing great but they were smaller one was a gray and the other was a red. I don't think she has much of a balance problem she just misses her steps sometimes when she gets to excited but she does lose ballance sometimes I'll try and get a video of her running around her cage and show you what I'm talking about.

[Kisbell17]

And yes I started her on the MBD protocol last night

[Kisbell17]

Update! She is acting more like her usual self! She's throwing her self all over the bottom of her cage and playing with everything including her food bowl. So she must be feeling a bit better!

[SammysMom]

Excellent!!! Just be sure that she can't fall or hurt herself. With MBD, they can feel better long before their bones actually are better and get injured more easily. However, her feeling better is an awesome first step! Keep up the good work!:Love_Icon

[Kisbell17]

Another update.
She is very active and happy but her spine and side are standing up more. I think she's making her hair stand up and it's only standing up in those places cause when I pet it. It squishespecially down back down to normal. And doesn't feel odd she feels normal everywhere. What could be causing her hair to stand up only in these places? Could her skin be irritated she's been itching a little more than usual. I don't know I'm just brainstorming as its still super odd.

[CritterMom]

She may be growing her winter coat. Often the hairs don't grow at the same rate, resulting in some very unusual hairdos - mohawks, etc. If this is fur and not her backbone protruding, which would really be more indicative of malnutrition, I bet that is what it is. When the other hair gets the same length it won't look like it is standing up anymore - she will just be uniformly fuzzy.

[Kisbell17]

Ohkay! That makes me feel so much better because it doesn't feel like her back bone is sticking out or anything so that's probably what it it. That makes me feel so relieved. I will still continue to MBD stuff as I think she could still use it as she has seemed to be in a better mood since I have started it!

[Rexie]

just a thought here, Is she cold? When my boy gets cold his fur on his back stands up kinda like that. The first time I found him like that I thought he was a different squirrel , It looks like static electricity fur standing up. Maybe the cold by a window could be the cause. Just a thought, Lisa

[SammysMom]

Well winter coat looks like its from the Rhodesian Ridgeback collection. All the rage this season...:grin3
an otherwise totally normal looking squirrel! Good call on winterizing Crittermom! Makes perfect sense.