young mom giving birth

[rbean]

Hi I have a young squirrel 6 months (or so)who is giving birth.She started this afternoon breathing heavy and in pain.She seems to have lost movement in her legs.She has been moving around till now and tries to position herself over something,like a log.Her bottom is wet & destended but nothing coming through.How long are squirrels in labor? I have called local vet.No help.Any advice?

[SammysMom]

Is she in your care or outdoors? Is this a gray squirrel?

[rbean]

Grey squirrel in my care.

[SammysMom]

You are certain she is giving birth and not having some other issue? Six months is very young for giving birth.

[rbean]

Not 100% but we watched her get larger and larger ,sleep more &start building a nest.ypu can tell she is trying to push.do you know how long there labor is?do they sometimes have some back leg paralysis?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Not 100% but we watched her get larger and larger ,sleep more &start building a nest.ypu can tell she is trying to push.do you know how long there labor is?do they sometimes have some back leg paralysis?

A six month old giving birth would be VERY unusual. I assume she has a brother. :tilt
Back leg paralysis is not normal. What is her diet like?

Their gestation is 44 days so she would have been VERY young.

[rbean]

Yes she has brother I thought they were to young to seperate.saying she is 6 months is even stretching it. But yes I do think she is pregnant.her stomach is going down .Her diet is nuts ,fruit.raw vetables.sometimes peanut butter.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Does she eat any type of rodent block? How long were they on formula? What type?
How long have you had them?
Sorry for so many questions but they are very important.
What do you mean her stomach is going down?

[rbean]

I wondered if the babies passed and she is trying to pass the poor things

[rbean]

As she has been breathing heavy and in pain she has changed to laying still .She was large overall but her weight has gone down (skinny again belly .but her bottom half I'd larger and she appears to be breathing lower --or contractions are moving lower? Now she is breathing or contracting right where her leg starts..

[Nancy in New York]

Hi I have a young squirrel 6 months (or so)who is giving birth.She started this afternoon breathing heavy and in pain.She seems to have lost movement in her legs.She has been moving around till now and tries to position herself over something,like a log.Her bottom is wet & destended but nothing coming through.How long are squirrels in labor? I have called local vet.No help.Any advice?

Where in Georgia are you located?

[rbean]

I have rehabbed before under vets care.she has rodent block. I feed them on the cat formula vet gave me for plenty enough time.U have done this three times ,one died when he was young,the two other were raised and released.this is my first girl

[HRT4SQRLS]

There is a very high probability that your girl had Metabolic Bone Disease if she has been on a diet of nuts and fruit. MBD also causes seizures. It is caused by low calcium in the diet.

IF she is indeed 'giving birth' at this young age, it will be problematic.
Babies would pull what little calcium she has out of her bones.

Edit: just saw your reply.

[rbean]

Anything you would suggest I give her ?do you know how long there labor lasts?

[HRT4SQRLS]

?do you know how long there labor lasts?

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that.

[pixiepoo]

Can you post a picture of her? Or a video of her movements. If it were my squirrel, I would take her to a vet.

[Nancy in New York]

Can you post a picture of her?
Where are you located in Georgia?

[Nancy in New York]

Can you post a picture of her?
Where are you located in Georgia?

edit: I see that pixiepoo and I both have great minds. :grin2

[pixiepoo]

edit: I see that pixiepoo and I both have great minds. :grin2

:thumbsup:glomp:glomp

[DarkLies212]

I have rehabbed before under vets care.she has rodent block. I feed them on the cat formula vet gave me for plenty enough time.U have done this three times ,one died when he was young,the two other were raised and released.this is my first girl

Has this vet confirmed she's pregnant?

[Shewhosweptforest]

Do you feel anything in her belly...usually you can feel babies in most mammals....feel gently....could she be struggling to pee....like a blockage from a UTI infection...or crystals in her urine, I had a squirrel with a UTI and she would squat often and drag herself :dono it seems unlikely she'd be pregnant....and her tummy wouldn't get smaller until after she's given birth :thinking some animals have hysterical pregnancies....I had a dog once go through that.....I've never heard of a squirrel but :dono could she be having seizures which make you think she's giving birth....do you have any tums you could ground down and mix with water and start feeding to her...if it is MBD you could see a slight improvement ....if not it shouldn't hurt her...another thought is putting her into a warm bath to help ease whatever is going on....maybe infant ibuprofen to help her with pain:dono I'm so sorry she is suffering and we aren't sure what is going on :sadness

[rbean]

:thumbsup:glomp:glomp

Hi my vet that help is more domestic animals.However I can take her there and see what he can do in am. A picture from earlier might have helped.Now she is laying still.breathing heavy lower abdomen. She is very wet and her bottom keeps contracting but not enough to see anything.

[rbean]

I should have mentioned she is pooping and drinking fine

[SammysMom]

Do her privates look swollen?

[Nancy in New York]

Any picture will help, can you post one?

[rbean]

yes privates swollen and all her bottom hair is dark and wet. but its darker then it should be with just water. Does that make sense. I will try to post pic

[stepnstone]

Nothing about this sounds right...
Feeding kitten formula to a squirrel is inadequate to their nutritional requirments.
If the main source of (solid) daily diet has not been rodent block, diet has also been inadequate.
If the squirrel is a young pregnant, as been stated, it's going to be very problematic due to already
suspected compromised calcium levels as well as other nutritional deficiencies. Back leg paralysis is
common with mbd which is one of results of nutritional deficiency and is also associated with
discomfort, serious pain, lethargy, seizures and death.

I'll pray this baby can get and be helped professionally.

[rbean]

Ok did any pic's get through? I stopped and held her first time today.I have tried to keep these squirrels as wild as possible.But I wanted to hold her all day with her being sick. She let me rub her cheek/chin area they love s much.but as she was relaxing I saw her bottom move again,Honestly sorry to be so crude but it looks like she has a pink penis and when she's contracting it protrudes out a little more but then just as quickly goes back in. I saw in a video that the moms have to kind of pull the baby out but there's not enough to pull.I think she is much less scared and much more comfortable. I just hesitated to do that all day

[rbean]

Well as far as the kitten formula.Everyone here uses it.My vet recommended it,the vet techs here rehab squirrels and they use it. The vet that called me to take these squirrels was using it.An when I went on vacation and took the squirrels with me the vet tech there told me that's what she uses and what they used when they had 100's of squirrels displaced after a storm in SC.

[stepnstone]

There is a lot of misinformation and uneducated out there even among vets. The milk/formula for a squirrel should be designed around the values of a mother squirrel's milk and kitten formulas do not contain the balance or have the correct nutritional levels for a squirrel. An analysis of the Kitten formula determines it has half of the fat and twice the protein which is not the correct balance for a squirrel's nutrition. Cats are carnivores and it makes sense that the diet they require would be high in protein. A squirrel is mostly vegetarian with different requirements then that of a carnivore.
Although both contain many of the same ingredients, it is the percentages of those ingredients that are vital to a squirrels health. There are also ingredients in both not found in the other. Ingredients in the puppy formula such as Dried whey protein not found in kitten formula is essential to a squirrels healthy nutrition.

As far as the disaster to the wildlife in SC, desperate times can call for desperate measures! I will say this site and many of it's members who took an active role in funding, purchasing, and shipping supplies directed to rehabbers and facilities handling the orphaned squirrels throughout, did not purchase or ship KMR for the use with squirrels.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Any update?

[Spanky]

For a 6 month old captive squirrel to be pregnant by her brother, her brother would also needed to mature sexually... which makes the whole premise she s giving birth even more unlikely. Has brother's testicles dropped? If she is six months old giving birth she would have gotten pregnant at 4 1/2 months (18 weeks +/-)?!?!?

I think you need to consider this is very likely something other than pregnancy / labor.

I see others have asked your general location in Georgia, but that is to ascertain if there are members near you that may be able to help especially since it is the weekend. We just want to help you help this baby. I am in NE GA; let me know if I can help in any way.

Edit: The pictures did not come through. You can e-mail to squirrelhelp @ uysinc.com (remove the spaces) and I will post them if that helps.

[rbean]

Hi thanks or the help.I am having trouble posting to my thread.Can't seem to find it .Followed instructions and gave her the calcium and vitamin drops. Her size belly has decreased.No babies came.She was alert the whole time and has has not been lethargic at all. She is not in pain now. Drinking and eating. No problem with bowels.She took all her calcium and will continue through the day.I took her nuts and put her rodent block in with her. Will keep you updated.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Hi thanks or the help.I am having trouble posting to my thread.Can't seem to find it .Followed instructions and gave her the calcium and vitamin drops. Her size belly has decreased.No babies came.She was alert the whole time and has has not been lethargic at all. She is not in pain now. Drinking and eating. No problem with bowels.She took all her calcium and will continue through the day.I took her nuts and put her rodent block in with her. Will keep you updated.

Rbean, I copied this from the other thread. Your thread is in the Emergency Help Needed Section.

Did you get the link for the Metabolic Bone Disease treatment protocol?
Here is the link. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

More than likely what you were seeing was seizures related to MBD. If she was having babies, which was very unlikely, she would have either had them or she would have died by now. In the 4 years I have been on this board I have never seen a 6 month old have babies.

If you follow the treatment protocol, you can save her. MBD is treatable but it does take time. Without treatment it is fatal.
We will help you every step of the way.

[Nancy in New York]

Rbean, I copied this from the other thread. Your thread is in the Emergency Help Needed Section.

Did you get the link for the Metabolic Bone Disease treatment protocol?
Here is the link. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

More than likely what you were seeing was seizures related to MBD. If she was having babies, which was very unlikely, she would have either had them or she would have died by now. In the 4 years I have been on this board I have never seen a 6 month old have babies.

If you follow the treatment protocol, you can save her. MBD is treatable but it does take time. Without treatment it is fatal.
We will help you every step of the way.

Thanks Patti, I just found that post and moved it here, and sent her the link to
this thread. :thumbsup

[Spanky]

Just wanted to offer that if you are in my "neighborhood" of Georgia, I have Henry's Calcium Powder, Henry's Vita-Mins, Protein Powder, Esbilac, etc. I would be happy to share to help you baby. :thumbsup

[SammysMom]

Just wanted to offer that if you are in my "neighborhood" of Georgia, I have Henry's Calcium Powder, Henry's Vita-Mins, Protein Powder, Esbilac, etc. I would be happy to share to help you baby. :thumbsup

Thank-you Spanky, for always being there to help!!! GA is lucky to have you for sure and so is TSB!

[rbean]

Ok I gave what you recommended.This afternoon she had a white/yellowish discharge a good bit.Seemed to be no pain.AS I stated somewhere else .she is not lethargic alert eating.Not using her legs are tail. has anyone used Nutri- drence ?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Is the discharge from her genitals? Do you think she has an infection? The rear leg paralysis in classic for MBD. Is there any chance she was injured in a fall?

I've never heard of the product you mentioned. What's it for?

[rbean]

Hi I have completed your protocol for the MDB? Of course I will give her more calcium tomorrow.I have seen seizures before but I guess they could have been different type. But it was more like she was giving birth(yes I know that must not correct) Whereas she was always alert,making nose crawling around -she couldn't get comfortable.When I tried to put my hand in she warned me not to.Her noises where every few seconds,like waves.Today she had the discharge from her privates like I said she looks like she has a penis the creamy yellow discharge came from there. The medicine I mentioned is a calcium & vitamin supplement for chickens.its called Nutri-Drench.But I have plenty of tums & vitamins.I can get a antibiotic (couldn't hurt) what would you recommend ?

[SammysMom]

Can you get Clavamox? I would definitely give her an antibiotic. Do you have any on hand? If so what do you have?

[rbean]

Hi Ia sending my pictures to the email listed these are from yesterday.will send some updated ones tonight

[rbean]

Can get in am --maybe tonight will find out

[HRT4SQRLS]

I looked up the product. It sounds good for poultry but I just can't say it's safe for squirrels. I really don't know. It does have Vitamin D3 in it. The problem is that too much Vitamin D is toxic to squirrels. It is used as a rodenticide so we have to be very careful with Vitamin D.

The best way to supplement squirrels is to use the Henry's Healthy Blocks for squirrels. They are packed with vitamins and minerals in the appropriate amounts for squirrels. One or two blocks a day provides all the needed minerals and vitamins.
http://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-blocks-adult-formula/

Most squirrels like them because they are made with pecans. Most find them to be MUCH preferred over the other rodent blocks.

[rbean]

So petco doesn't carry this?

[Spanky]

Pics of this little one...

[Spanky]

So petco doesn't carry this?

Petco does not carry Henry's Healthy Blocks (HHB). These are specialized for squirrels concentrated with nutrients.

[SammysMom]

They are from henryspets.com and they are terrific!

[DarkLies212]

Hi I have completed your protocol for the MDB?

The process to recover from MBD takes months and can't be completed in a night. You aren't really finished until the squirrel is 100% healed and her bones are rebuilt. Just as it's a slow process for her to get into that condition, it's a slow process to recover

[rbean]

I ,meant for today. I have another pic to send she had more discharge sending now.She did see to have a lot of spunk.Did not want to take her medicine.

[Spanky]

I am hoping others will weigh in on the pics if there are any "clues" they show. Seems the consensus is this is MBD and maybe a secondary infection (at the risk.. well, okay... sounding exactly like a broken record I have Clavamox as well if we are in the same area).

I cannot offer much about her condition from the pictures (she does look miserable) other than she seems to be laying in hay? Hay is not good for squirrels, they do not eat hay and pretty much just pee in it and cause it to mold (which is already has a tendency to do quick enough without urine to speed thing up!).

[rbean]

I took a picture of the discharge comes out in a string--sort of but the picture was to dark

[SammysMom]

Good catch on the hay Spanky! You probably would want to use something like flannel if you can change it quite often. It is absorbent so would hold the urine, but also draw it away from her if you have enough to change often. Fleece is what most of us use for them. It is soft and will make her feel cozy and comfy.
Spanky is a VERY "safe" member to allow to help you. He has done it for many who were also nervous about accepting it. He always comes through for the animal and the human as well. If you are indeed close enough, take his help. I envy you for being in the same state with such a wonderful rehabber.:Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

That is very serious... Do you have any antibiotics that might be for even humans?

[Nancy in New York]

I am hoping others will weigh in on the pics if there are any "clues" they show. Seems the consensus is this is MBD and maybe a secondary infection (at the risk.. well, okay... sounding exactly like a broken record I have Clavamox as well if we are in the same area).

I cannot offer much about her condition from the pictures (she does look miserable) other than she seems to be laying in hay? Hay is not good for squirrels, they do not eat hay and pretty much just pee in it and cause it to mold (which is already has a tendency to do quick enough without urine to speed thing up!).

Not sure what to make of this.
This squirrel needs help now.
This one really worries me.
VERY tiny for a 6 month old squirrel.
rbean, would you be willing to let Spanky help?

Is she eating at all? Is she taking any fluid?
When you said she wouldn't take her meds, which meds?

[Shewhosweptforest]

Does this remind anyone of what happened with Luna? Just grasping for straws here :(

[Spanky]

I ,meant for today. I have another pic to send she had more discharge sending now.She did see to have a lot of spunk.Did not want to take her medicine.

I did not receive this picture to post, did you send it? :dono

[Spanky]

VERY tiny for a 6 month old squirrel.

I thought she seemed tiny as well. Maybe a bit dehydrated, but maybe that could be from the recent "discharge"?

[rbean]

Yes I put her in hay and leaves because I thought it would be more natural like the pine straw.Usually I use fabric-- I separated her and her sister because her sister was getting upset. But I let them see each other so they wouldn't be worried (if squirrels worry) Picture did not come out.

[SammysMom]

What was her sister doing? I am curious about her reaction to her sister's ailment. Also, if one has MBD, it is very likely that they all are in some stage of it. You might want to start the litter on the treatment.

[Spanky]

Yes I put her in hay and leaves because I thought it would be more natural like the pine straw.Usually I use fabric-- I separated her and her sister because her sister was getting upset. But I let them see each other so they wouldn't be worried (if squirrels worry) Picture did not come out.

The leaves are fine, but the hay can be problematic because of the mold issue. Best to avoid using hay with squirrels. I know squirrels use pine straw in their nests, but I have never used pine straw in their cages but they get plenty of leaves. I always put a bunch of leaves in the release cage for them to use in their nest boxes.

If you get a pic you want me to post, you can send it to that squirrelhelp address (that address will wake me up!).

[rbean]

Her sister was in the nesting box then came out & was running around,looking at her sister .back & forth. Yes I started them all on the calcium vitamin drops & rodent block.I am getting a little worried because she (Grace) has not had any water tonight except the medicine mixture.

[SammysMom]

Are you able to sub q fluids into her? Maybe Spanky could help you with this. Have you spoken to him?

[Spanky]

Her sister was in the nesting box then came out & was running around,looking at her sister .back & forth. Yes I started them all on the calcium vitamin drops & rodent block.I am getting a little worried because she (Grace) has not had any water tonight except the medicine mixture.

Is the medicine mixture the Nutri-Drench? I was just reading about that, the poultry version (is that what you are using?) says to dilute a few ounces into a gallon of water. If that is the case, she would have gotten a good bit of water. If not, can you tell us what the mixtures is (how much Nutri-Drench (and which kind) in how much water, etc. And how much Grace was given?

[rbean]

I found some amoxicillian 250 mg capsules,do you think I should break it and give her a little .I will get her medicine tomorrow,What do you think?

[Spanky]

I found some amoxicillian 250 mg capsules,do you think I should break it and give her a little .I will get her medicine tomorrow,What do you think?

Please do not break open the capsule and give her any that way, it would have to be a much more precise dosing. And I don't think she needs antibiotics, but others may disagree. I believe she has a severe case of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) which is a result of a calcium deficiency (or having had a diet of many calcium depleting foods like nuts, seeds, etc). Grace needs to be placed on emergency MBD protocol.... you can get her started with Tums (the antacid). I know you have mentioned a medicine mixture, but we don't know what that is exactly... can you tell us? Here is the MBD protocol:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17680-Emergency-Treatment-for-MBD-%28Updated-3-31-09%29

You can take her to a vet tomorrow? Is this a trusted vet that will not confiscate her///okay, I went back and saw you have rehabbed under the guidance of a vet... is this the vet you will be seeing Monday?

[rbean]

yes he is a trusted vet, he is mostly domestic animals,still he has continually surprised me with being right on with diagnosis. he will know the amount to give. I have her on the protocol with her brother & sister .I am not convinced this is whats wrong but since I don't have a clue and the tums & multivitamin won't hurt her at least I will be doing something for her.I am not giving the poultry medicine to her I was just asking.Will keep you updated. I hope to pickup medicine around 12,the sooner the better,thanks rbeccan

[SammysMom]

Tums is fine when used as has neen desctibedin mbd protocol. Multi vitamins are not fine if they are not soecifically for squirrels. Their neds are very spevific. It is unlikely that a domestic pet vet is going to know about the mbd protocol. We know that here and have shared it. If she still has discharge from her privates, i think an antibiotic is needed, but amoxi is not ideal.

[Spanky]

It could be that Grace's paralysis is also making her unable to potty on her own. Grace may have been "expressed" or at least coaxed along to urinate when her mom rubbed / petted her? It would be a good idea to go over expressing her bladder with the vet as that may be necessary in the short term. I hate to think she had so much urine she appeared pregnant but that would seem to be the only explanation since the swelling / bloating is now gone?

[Spanky]

yes he is a trusted vet, he is mostly domestic animals,still he has continually surprised me with being right on with diagnosis.

If he does place Grace on additional meds, I suggest you check back here just to confirm the dose. There is a ton of knowledge and experience on the board. And vets often have "go to" antibiotics which are not always the best choice for squirrels. My vet is the same in terms of not really specializing in squirrels at all, but he is willing to have conversations and listen when I share information from TSB with him... that willingness to work with you is invaluable! I always double check the doses he tells me with TSB just to make certain!

[Mommaluvy]

It could be that Grace's paralysis is also making her unable to potty on her own. Grace may have been "expressed" or at least coaxed along to urinate when her mom rubbed / petted her? It would be a good idea to go over expressing her bladder with the vet as that may be necessary in the short term. I hate to think she had so much urine she appeared pregnant but that would seem to be the only explanation since the swelling / bloating is now gone?


Spanky, I think you might be on to something there.

My opinion based on reading the whole thread is that she has MBD and was then injured in the cage ( spinal injury) and may need to be expressed. The swelling could be internal organs swelling or shutting down ON TOP of the need to be expressed.

If she can't completely empty on her own this could have cause a low grade UTI that did not show symptoms before the rear paralysis showed up and caused her to not pee on her own.

I am curious if this squirrel baby is pooping on her own?
Is it just constant yet random pooping. ( When you handle her does she poop)
Does the poop have any off odor?
I am thinking her organs could be shutting down causing swelling and back up...
Or
I have been reading where some rear paralysis can bu cause by coccidiosis overgrowth than may not cause diarrhea. But with out a stool sample I would bet it's from the injury.

I think this little girl has a couple things going on.

Something I just thought of.. Does she have deep pain ? Can she feel if you pinch her toes? You will want a reaction of her moving her head when you pinch. Not just the reflex of pulling the paw back which can be just a reflex. I am wondering if maybe the UTI is just so advanced it hurts her to move her back legs. I am reminded of a UTI I got once where I did not want to walk cause the pain was so bad.

Poor baby. I hope you can get her to the vet for exam and meds and or Spanky.

[Shewhosweptforest]

How's the lil girl doing? :Love_Icon