White tears and squeaking in pain

[Sara in NW MS]

I was feeding the little tumble weed (the neuro boy) when I noticed he was squirming a lot compared to normal then he was making a squeaking sound. He did this several times then flailed around then I noticed white tears in his good eye.

I don't know what to do for him. The formula wasn't too hot, he was eating it just like usual. I had him wrapped like I always have him. What can I do for him??? He's been on pred since fri night with no improvement.

[Sara in NW MS]

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[Nancy in New York]

Oh poor little soul.
Not sure what to do, you can't give
infant ibuprophen with Prednisone.
Do you have any Tramadol?
Give him a little honey in water.
How are his poops?
Does his tummy feel hard?
Try patting his back to see if that helps him.
Grasping here.

Wished I had the answer. :shakehead
Hopefully someone else can suggest something. :dono

[Sara in NW MS]

I have tramadol, I think the writing says 50mg but I can't say for sure. It's a round white pill with the numbers 319 on it.

His poops have been fine, he peed a lot on himself when this happened. Tummy is soft. I'll try the honey water.

[SammysMom]

Do you have any Tramadol?

[Sara in NW MS]

I have tramadol, I think the writing says 50mg but I can't say for sure. It's a round white pill with the numbers 319 on it.

[Nancy in New York]

I have tramadol, I think the writing says 50mg but I can't say for sure. It's a round white pill with the numbers 319 on it.

Hold on let me see if I can find that.

[Nancy in New York]

See if this is it.
I will start writing up dosing directions, do you have a weight on him?

http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?imprint=319&color=12&shape=24

[Sara in NW MS]

That's exactly what I have but I think I know what his problem was. I don't know how this is possible because he pees so much all the time but I rubbed his belly and felt his bladder and he instantly had a drop of pee come out. I kept gently doing that and he kept peeing. He acted like it bothered him at first when I first touched his belly in that area but now he's fine when I touch it. Do you think maybe his bladder was full even tho he soaked the blanket I had him wrapped in when this started??

[Nancy in New York]

That's exactly what I have but I think I know what his problem was. I don't know how this is possible because he pees so much all the time but I rubbed his belly and felt his bladder and he instantly had a drop of pee come out. I kept gently doing that and he kept peeing. He acted like it bothered him at first when I first touched his belly in that area but now he's fine when I touch it. Do you think maybe his bladder was full even tho he soaked the blanket I had him wrapped in when this started??

Geez not sure, but if he's acting fine now, it "could" have been the cause.
Though the white tears are throwing me here.
Perhaps he needed to go more, but when you touched him, that helped him relieve himself. :dono
Does his tummy area seem sensitive now if you touch it?

[Nancy in New York]

OK sweetie, I have an early morning coming up, so I have to
call it a night.
I hope everything is fine with this little one.
I sent the dosing for the tramadol.
:hug

[SammysMom]

It sounds like you figured it out. It may be that what wet the blankie was sort of leaking out because he was full. That is very different than him passing urine on his own. Do you stimulate him to pee?

[Sara in NW MS]

Geez not sure, but if he's acting fine now, it "could" have been the cause.
Though the white tears are throwing me here.
Perhaps he needed to go more, but when you touched him, that helped him relieve himself. :dono
Does his tummy area seem sensitive now if you touch it?

I kept massaging his belly in that area and that bulge I felt slowly disappeared as urine was coming out of him. He's been peeing a lot since I got him Friday so I just assumed there wasn't a problem. But now that I am seeing a different squirrel just because he was able to empty his bladder... Maybe he's been having this problem and I just didn't know. Ugh, poor little guy.

I know there's a video on here on how to express a bladder. I might need it.

Thank you for the help Nancy, you are a lifesaver!!!

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[Chickenlegs]

Oh sweet baby. He reminds me of my Grady. He had to be expressed several times a day. Kiss that darling on his little head for me please. :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

I kept massaging his belly in that area and that bulge I felt slowly disappeared as urine was coming out of him. He's been peeing a lot since I got him Friday so I just assumed there wasn't a problem. But now that I am seeing a different squirrel just because he was able to empty his bladder... Maybe he's been having this problem and I just didn't know. Ugh, poor little guy.

I know there's a video on here on how to express a bladder. I might need it.

Thank you for the help Nancy, you are a lifesaver!!!

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Sara because you are and always have been so in tune with your little ones,
YOU are the life saver.
With him peeing on his own, who would even think this could be an issue? :dono
Nice job! :hug

Here's the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cf0CwuDvlM

[Sara in NW MS]

I'm not really sure what the issue is but he has white tears again. I just got a text about it.

When I went in to get him this morning he was dry... first morning of being dry since I've had him! I expressed his bladder first thing and he peed. I'm not really sure if I got it all, I'm not an expert at this and I haven't learned what I should be feeling when it comes to a full/empty bladder. Anyway, I gave him his meds and fed him and expressed his bladder again before I left the house.

When his aunt lulu went in to give him some water, she said he was a little wet and he peed for her when she expressed his bladder. She said it wasn't much but she did see pee.

I noticed last night and again this morning when I found his bladder... he reacts like it hurts him the moment the pee starts to come out. Could he possibly have an infection from his bladder being like this for who knows how long? I would imagine if his bladder was full, even the slightest pressure on it would be uncomfortable to say the least.

I really am at a loss here, He's eating well, getting water between feedings, pooping great and they aren't little rocks anymore. He has always done this thing... kind of like he his grinding his teeth and sliding his jaw side to side, he even does it in his sleep. I can't think of anything else out of the ordinary to tell you to maybe help with suggestions...

[missPixy]

Right now I am dealing with a squirrel paralyzed in her legs. when I first found her, she couldn't pee on her own and my vet gave me several lessons on how to express her bladder. my vet said that yes, backed-up urine in the bladder can lead to urinary tract infections and even damage the kidneys if the urine starts to back up. not saying that is what's wrong with him but wanted to answer your last question. but if his kidney did start to become affected by urine backup, he could be experiencing flank pain.

[SammysMom]

I would bet my life that he has a uti. I can't remember which ab is best for uti and am at work. What do you have for ABs?

[Nancy in New York]

I would bet my life that he has a uti. I can't remember which ab is best for uti and am at work. What do you have for ABs?

Many swear by Baytril or SMZ-TMP Gayle.
This little one doesn't get seizures does he?

[SammysMom]

If he is at all neuro, I think I would avoid Baytril if possible.

[Sara in NW MS]

No seizures that I have noticed, and we keep a really close eye on him. There are 4 of us who come and go and check on him all day and during the night. None of us have observed anything that would look like a seizure.

These are the drugs I have...

Clavamox 875/125
Clindamycin 150mg
Amox/Clav 625mg

I will add that his urine has had a strong odor to it since I got him but we just assumed it was from being on that PetAg formula but he's been off of it completely since Sunday and his urine still smells really strong. There is only a slight yellow tint to his urine.

[SammysMom]

That is a UTI from the sound of it. Is there any chance you might be able to get human Cipro? If not, I guess I would try Clavamox. How much does he weigh?

[Sara in NW MS]

That is a UTI from the sound of it. Is there any chance you might be able to get human Cipro? If not, I guess I would try Clavamox. How much does he weigh?

You asked about Baytril and I do have some of that but this little guy is neuro so I'm not sure what is safe to give him.

I'll ask around today about the Cipro, I might be able to get my hands on some.

He weighs 342g

[stepnstone]

You asked about Baytril and I do have some of that but this little guy is neuro so I'm not sure what is safe to give him.

I'll ask around today about the Cipro, I might be able to get my hands on some.

He weighs 342g

Baytril and Cipro are the same.
Baytril is produced for animals, Cipro is produced for humans.

[Sara in NW MS]

Baytril and Cipro are the same.
Baytril is produced for animals, Cipro is produced for humans.

Thanks Step, I knew that at one point in time but it didn't even cross my mind today. I think I am brain dead from lack of sleep these days between a sick kid and this sick squirrel.

So basically Baytril and Cipro are out for treating this little one if he has a UTI. Does anyone know of another AB that might help?

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks Step, I knew that at one point in time but it didn't even cross my mind today. I think I am brain dead from lack of sleep these days between a sick kid and this sick squirrel.

So basically Baytril and Cipro are out for treating this little one if he has a UTI. Does anyone know of another AB that might help?


Yes SMZ-TMP.
Last week I did up a package with this in and had Rich send it to you.
I won't even go there.................but I have a feeling it's in the back
of his car.
He JUST went to the PO Monday with a package for another member, and
I never asked if he had sent out the two (one for you and one for another member)
packages from last week.
He's golfing now, but when he comes home I'll ask.
I will send out more tomorrow, though I do have a feeling I'll find it in the
back floor once he gets home.
In either case I will send SMZ-TMP tomorrow. :bash :shakehead

[stepnstone]

Thanks Step, I knew that at one point in time but it didn't even cross my mind today. I think I am brain dead from lack of sleep these days between a sick kid and this sick squirrel.

So basically Baytril and Cipro are out for treating this little one if he has a UTI. Does anyone know of another AB that might help?


I've not dealt with "actual" nuro's so don't understand why baytril is out but Cipro was mentioned??
I would suggest consulting back with SM or even with HRT for other alternatives. If there is another
med to use and you can't get your hands on it I may have it and will be glad to send to you.

[Sara in NW MS]

Yes SMZ-TMP.
Last week I did up a package with this in and had Rich send it to you.
I won't even go there.................but I have a feeling it's in the back
of his car.
He JUST went to the PO Monday with a package for another member, and
I never asked if he had sent out the two (one for you and one for another member)
packages from last week.
He's golfing now, but when he comes home I'll ask.
I will send out more tomorrow, though I do have a feeling I'll find it in the
back floor once he gets home.
In either case I will send SMZ-TMP tomorrow. :bash :shakehead

Lol, I know how that goes when you ask someone to do something for you and they forget. :shakehead


I've not dealt with "actual" nuro's so don't understand why baytril is out but Cipro was mentioned??
I would suggest consulting back with SM or even with HRT for other alternatives. If there is another
med to use and you can't get your hands on it I may have it and will be glad to send to you.


It looks like Nancy has something he can take for this. Thanks for offering to send something to help Step. Does anyone know what I can do in the meantime? I would try cranberries but since he isn't able to eat solids I'm not sure how I could get away with that. Would it be okay if I juiced some cranberries and gave him a little bit of the juice each day?

You guys are wonderful and I am so appreciative of all the support and help you give for these little guys. :Love_IconTSB:Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

Although Cipro and Baytril are sort of the same, they are not identical or humans would be able to take Baytril and they can't due to the risk of seizure. It is my understanding that Cipro is a better option for one who might have a risk of seizure due to neuro problems.
Personally, I will go with Cipro over Baytril whenever I can because I feel as though it is probably safer because it is made of human use.

[Duckman]

Maybe this has already been answered, but I skipped down to post this. The white tears is probably pus (there would be an infection around the snout area). The discomfort would be indicative with this as well, as the pressure needed for it to seep out of the eyes would be pretty immense. I saw a little something posted about SMZ-TMP and would highly recommend this here. Hopefully, the infection hasn't made it to the brain yet.

[stepnstone]

Although Cipro and Baytril are sort of the same, they are not identical or humans would be able to take Baytril and they can't due to the risk of seizure. It is my understanding that Cipro is a better option for one who might have a risk of seizure due to neuro problems.
Personally, I will go with Cipro over Baytril whenever I can because I feel as though it is probably safer because it is made of human use.

This I knew although need an expert to explain the "actual" whys....
Thank you SM for the clarification, personally I have found Cipro easier to get hold of anyway. :great

I do have the SMZ also if needed.

[SammysMom]

Okay, if this is infection in his face and head, Clavamox is probably a good idea anyway. I will send dosing via PM right now.

[Sara in NW MS]

Maybe this has already been answered, but I skipped down to post this. The white tears is probably pus (there would be an infection around the snout area). The discomfort would be indicative with this as well, as the pressure needed for it to seep out of the eyes would be pretty immense. I saw a little something posted about SMZ-TMP and would highly recommend this here. Hopefully, the infection hasn't made it to the brain yet.

Infection around his snout? I haven't seen anything on him, no sores or anything. I could check the inside of his mouth and see if I see anything.

I guess I'm a little confused. Infection making it's way to his brain?? He's a head trauma baby who was with the original finders for several weeks being fed acorns and seeds until 2 of the 3 babies died. The third baby (this one) was handed off to someone else for a little over a week before he made his way to me.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I would definitely use the Clavamox that you have ...whether you're treating a UTI or an infection in the head. It has broader coverage. It's the antibiotic my vet prescribed for my cats UTI. :tilt

An drug in the fluoroquinolone class (both Baytril and Ciprofloxacin) should be avoided in a squirrel that either has had a seizure OR who is neurologically impaired OR who has experienced head trauma. This class of drugs lowers the seizure threshold and can actually cause seizures. I would not use either drug on this baby.

[SammysMom]

Thank-you Patti!!! This question of Cipro/Baytril has come up many times and I am glad to know it should be avoided with all of these issues.

[stepnstone]

I would definitely use the Clavamox that you have ...whether you're treating a UTI or an infection in the head. It has broader coverage. It's the antibiotic my vet prescribed for my cats UTI. :tilt

An drug in the fluoroquinolone class (both Baytril and Ciprofloxacin) should be avoided in a squirrel that either has had a seizure OR who is neurologically impaired OR who has experienced head trauma. This class of drugs lowers the seizure threshold and can actually cause seizures. I would not use either drug on this baby.

Thank-you Patti!!! This question of Cipro/Baytril has come up many times and I am glad to know it should be avoided with all of these issues.

Yes, thank you!
I will definitely make note of this.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I would definitely use the Clavamox that you have ...whether you're treating a UTI or an infection in the head. It has broader coverage. It's the antibiotic my vet prescribed for my cats UTI. :tilt

Any drug in the fluoroquinolone class (both Baytril and Ciprofloxacin) should be avoided in a squirrel that either has had a seizure OR who is neurologically impaired OR who has experienced head trauma. This class of drugs lowers the seizure threshold and can actually cause seizures. I would not use either drug on this baby.

No problem. There is a typo in the above ... It should say ANY not AN. :tilt

[Sara in NW MS]

Ugh, it feels like one issue after another with this little guy. Ok... duckman mentioned something about the white in his eyes being pus and how there could be an infection somewhere around his snout... I just went in to feed the little guy and this is coming out of his nose. He has not eaten recently, I wiped it and more came back. He doesn't sneeze, there isn't any sound coming from him when he breathes, no clicking, nothing.

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It almost looks like his eye that bulges is sticking out even more. I need to find pics of that eye from straight on so I can compare them.

[SammysMom]

Did you start the Clavamox?

[Sara in NW MS]

I just got it crushed up and mixed. I'm going to give it to him in just a few minutes.


Did you start the Clavamox?

[SammysMom]

The sooner the better. He needs ABs to get rid of that infection. Many prayers for fast recovery...:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

I just got it crushed up and mixed. I'm going to give it to him in just a few minutes.



Remember to give probiotics 2 hours prior or 2 hours after giving abs.
I KNOW you know that. :hug

[SammysMom]

Is there an odor to the discharge?

[SammysMom]

Just give the ABs asap and the probiotics 2 hours later. He needs ABs right now.

[Nancy in New York]

Just give the ABs asap and the probiotics 2 hours later. He needs ABs right now.

Oh I didn't mean to suggest to hold off the abs.
Just meant that she can give them 2 hours before or 2 hours after.

[SammysMom]

Oh I didn't mean to suggest to hold off the abs.
Just meant that she can give them 2 hours before or 2 hours after.

Oh goodness, I knew that. I am just really concerned and think with that discharge he really needs the AB asap.:hug

[Nancy in New York]

Oh goodness, I knew that. I am just really concerned and think with that discharge he really needs the AB asap.:hug

Just in case, I am sending some Doxy as well.
Then we just have to check to make sure he can take that.

[Sara in NW MS]

He has been given the Clav and I sniffed his little nose and mouth. There's an odd smell there but it doesn't smell like infection.

I remembered about the probiotics, I'm gonna give those to him in a little while after it's been long enough.

He has me worried, I can't hardly sleep because I'm constantly checking in on him.

[SammysMom]

This little guy is in a tough place, but his caretaker is the very BEST. All you can do is what we know is the right thing and pray that it works for him. Worrying is not going to change anything. Take a deep breath and get some rest. You are doing a wonderful job...:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Sara in NW MS]

This little guy is in a tough place, but his caretaker is the very BEST. All you can do is what we know is the right thing and pray that it works for him. Worrying is not going to change anything. Take a deep breath and get some rest. You are doing a wonderful job...:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

You guys give me too much credit. I'm just a regular person who never knew the first thing about squirrels until a year ago. Thankfully Jude and Judie never had any issues so it was a breeze taking care of them. I'm not a rehabber or a seasoned rescuer. I'm just a mom, but I'm a mom who puts as much into these squirrels (that includes love and worry) as I do my children.

It's all of you who have managed to get me this far.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Oh Sara I will be praying for this little one :please maybe this is causing all his issues....you know how an ear infection can cause balance issues :dono just trying to look for some kind of silver lining :Love_Icon and please "know" cuz we "know" you are a born caregiver....a natural:Love_Icon some people are just made that way:grin3 how blessed anyone in your life is :Love_Icon

:Love_Icon Fight lil Tumbleweed :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

Every one of us started with our first squirrel. You are a wonderful human who is doing a great job. Any squirrel is lucky to know you...:Love_Icon we humans are lucky too!:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

You may not have known anything about squirrels a year ago, but you sure are a fast learner!:clap


The Clavamox should help with UTI or some type of head infection (or both).

Cipro is similar to Baytril but not identical. In fact, Cipro is actually a metabolite of Baytril. In otherwords, when Baytril is administered, it is broken down by the body and converted into Cipro! Both of these drugs reduce seizure threshold which means there is increased risk with any form of head trauma.


I have often wondered if we should adjust our Cipro dosing levels since we get the dosing levels from Baytril in the baby mammals manual? I believe the conversion rate from Baytril to Cipro is about 70% which means that Cipro dosing based on Baytril recommendations would be 30% low?

[Sara in NW MS]

Little Tumbleweed started the Clav Wednesday night and I'm still seeing the white (tears or pus) in his eye and coming out of his nose. We haven't noticed any episodes like the other night where he was squeaking and flailing around like he was in pain, so that is a good thing. His poop was normal but yesterday and the night before that his poop was hard as a rock. We increased his fluids to make sure he was plenty hydrated but this morning he pooped a few "rocks" and then it turned into a paste. I've been giving him his probiotics. I don't want him getting diarrhea, is there anything else I can do? Also, this thing with his mouth bothers me. I took a video of it last night so I could get some opinions. He has done this with his jaw/teeth since I got him. At first I was concerned with the length of his teeth but after posting pics of his teeth no one seemed concerned, so why does he do this constantly??? He does this when he's awake and when he's asleep...

Video: https://youtu.be/g3MWrIDzb0o

[SammysMom]

The mouth thing may be sort of a "tic" from the neuro stuff. I'm sorry to ask this if I should already know, but is there any chance of getting an x-ray?
I hope that the pus starts to go away soon. The Clavamox is a good drug, but it does cause loose stool in some. You could try adding a bit of baby food sweet potato (no sugar or crap added) as it does have decent binding ability.

[Sara in NW MS]

The mouth thing may be sort of a "tic" from the neuro stuff. I'm sorry to ask this if I should already know, but is there any chance of getting an x-ray?
I hope that the pus starts to go away soon. The Clavamox is a good drug, but it does cause loose stool in some. You could try adding a bit of baby food sweet potato (no sugar or crap added) as it does have decent binding ability.

I haven't found anyone here that will do an x-ray. I was going to post something on here today asking if anyone knows of a vet I could take him to next week while I'm in GA. I'll be northeast of Atlanta and Friday or Saturday would be open for me to get him to a vet. I know there are members on here from Georgia... surely someone has a squirrel friendly vet that can see this little guy.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sara, send a PM to Spanky in case he doesn't see this. He might know of a vet.

[Sara in NW MS]

Sara, send a PM to Spanky in case he doesn't see this. He might know of a vet.

I typed up a PM and his box is full, ugh. Maybe he will see this thread.

[SammysMom]

I texted Spanky this morning and he said he was PMing you Sara. :thumbsup

[Sara in NW MS]

I texted Spanky this morning and he said he was PMing you Sara. :thumbsup

Thank you so much! He did PM me and I'll know very soon if he can get me an appointment with his vet next Friday. :dance:w00t

[Sara in NW MS]

I'm happy to report little TW will be seeing a vet next Saturday!!! :dance He just needs to hold on for another week and maybe we can find out what is wrong with him. I am so happy he will be seeing a vet, that will take such a load off once I know he has been looked over and x-rays taken.

I've been stressed about this white stuff coming out of his eyes and nose and now his gums and lips keep losing their color so I'm going to assume that means his blood sugar is bottoming out when that happens. He perks right up when I give him some syrup on his gums. Needless to say all these issues are stressing me out.

[Shewhosweptforest]

That is really great news:great thank you Spanky :blowkiss

Sara...not to set off alarm bells...and I haven't seen the other pics of his teeth...but I thought they looked a bit uneven :dono I'll check through both threads to see what they look like...I'm not sure how I missed them :thinking the adult wild squirrel we have, "Momma Squirrel" did something very similar to that when we were working on getting her alignment straight :( I don't know if there is underlying infection that is slightly shifting his bite.....but I know they do not like it...and I think this is an unconscious attempt to get the bite straight :dono this is all just what I think from watching Momma....but I know when I had braces I would constantly be "unconsciously" shifting my bite :dono sorry to add to your worry...and I may be wrong...you just need to look and see if his teeth are even across:great because once the alignment is out they will start to wear at an angle.

[Sara in NW MS]

Spanky suggested I get some feedback from some of you. We need to know what the vet should do to help Tumbleweed. What tests should be run, urine, blood, xrays and so on. Here's a brief rundown of his issues:

He can't sit or stand, only lies on his side
He has no control of his limbs (although he just started to grab the syringe for short periods of time)
He can move all four limbs but has never moved his tail
He has white goo (some say it's tears some say it's pus) coming out of his eyes occasionally
He has a white liquid coming out of his nose (it's thin, not thick or sticky like mucus)
His gums and lips have started to suddenly lose their color and get very pale
One eye bulges more than the other
We believe he is not able to empty his bladder and could possibly have a UTI

Original finder had this guy and two other siblings. They were fed acorns. I have no idea how long this person had him or his siblings. When the two siblings died, that's when the person decided to seek help and found someone to take him. The person they gave him to suspected MBD and ordered the kit from Henry's and started him on that along with PetAg milk replacer. They started the MBD treatment and there was no improvement at all. A little over a week later he was with me and it had been determined by this other person his issues were neuro and not MBD. He's on 50/50 FV & Esbilac. It was estimated that he is approximately 15 to 16 weeks old. He weighs 348g.

He was on pred and then it was recommended that he be switched to dex. He's been on Clav since the night of 11/18.

OMG... The person who gave him to me just replied back to my questions and I now have a tad more history on TW.

They had him for 12 weeks. They said he never tried to climb or jump, he was never playful or quick. Here is a pic from Oct. 7th!!!

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This means he wasn't always like this. Something obviously happened to this little guy when he was with them. Look at that baby, he's actually on his feet! This is so upsetting, I have no idea what happened to him. I was under the impression he was like this because he fell from a tree and suffered a head injury.

[CritterMom]

Do they have children? That baby was hurt - and I don't mean a little tumble. I mean like either accidentally - like by squeezing - or even something less benign.

We had a longtime neuro girl squirrel here named Christine who started life fine and got squeezed...

[SammysMom]

This is so very sad... Thank-you Sara for being this little ones strength. Whatever you feel is the right thing for this little innocent is what is right... He is so very fortunate to have such a kind and compassionate advocate. I hope you know what a very special person you are. This story is so heart-wrenching that it brings me to tears... I am sorry that you are having to live it, but ever so glad that he has landed in your very loving hands...:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

:grouphugYou have your hands full with this little one. So much going on, I would not know where to start? I hope he can rally under your care and make it to see the vet! Sending best wishes and keeping my fingers crossed.:grouphug

[Shewhosweptforest]

:shakehead It's sooo sad to look at his first pic...sitting up, tail in an "S" :dono what could have happened...and his poor sibs who didn't make it :boohoo

Sara....I would ask if he could be X-rayed ....maybe without being put under since he is easy to control :great I would want to get a clear look at his head...skull and facial...I would also ask about the eye drainage ...and if it is pus...can a culture be done? In the long run the infection needs to be cleared up...or he's not going to make it :sadness it seems like he's got something terrible going on in his head...I don't know if the bulging eye couldn't be from pressure from infection....I mean it has no where to go. I'd ask if this could be going to his brain...as infections in the face can do. I would not give up yet...I would try the ABs and steroids and give him time....he will let you know....sometimes these little ones will surprise you at just how resilient they are:Love_Icon I find hope in the fact that you saw some improvement... I pray the vet visit goes well :please :Love_Icon Safe journey :Love_Icon

[Spanky]

I would ask if he could be X-rayed ....maybe without being put under since he is easy to control :great I would want to get a clear look at his head...skull and facial.

What about the spine as well? Could it be that the paralysis is a result of a spinal injury and the infection secondary, especially considering CM theory about being squeezed (which I am taking to mean his torso may have been squeezed?).

Maybe this baby was getting to be that 8 (+/-) week old range when they want to escape and play hide-n-seek, I suppose they may have been grabbed and squeezed too aggressively when trying to return him to his cage? We've all had those episodes where we want to return the baby to the cage but hey, they are out and want to stay out and play! Chase and hide-n-seek are such a fun games for a squirrel! I am saddened to think this may have been something less benign.

[CritterMom]

I am certainly not making accusations! But tiny, squirmy animals are hard to control yet so very fragile. And young children have no concept of how to hold something that nobody in the house has likely ever dealt with. Holding around the chest too hard can depress the diaphragm sufficiently to cause severe brain damage. As I recall, Christine :Love_Icon was injured by an adult finder trying to restrain her. It doesn't take much...

[Spanky]

But I agree that it needs to be considered as at least a possibility. I know there have been many times when I finally caught a "free ranging squirrel" that I released them, resisting the natural impulse to grab them firmer, for fear hurting them.

[Sara in NW MS]

That is really great news:great thank you Spanky :blowkiss

Sara...not to set off alarm bells...and I haven't seen the other pics of his teeth...but I thought they looked a bit uneven :dono I'll check through both threads to see what they look like...I'm not sure how I missed them :thinking the adult wild squirrel we have, "Momma Squirrel" did something very similar to that when we were working on getting her alignment straight :( I don't know if there is underlying infection that is slightly shifting his bite.....but I know they do not like it...and I think this is an unconscious attempt to get the bite straight :dono this is all just what I think from watching Momma....but I know when I had braces I would constantly be "unconsciously" shifting my bite :dono sorry to add to your worry...and I may be wrong...you just need to look and see if his teeth are even across:great because once the alignment is out they will start to wear at an angle.

I took another pic of his teeth today. I'll post the pic from a week ago and today so you can see them side by side. The first pic is from last Saturday and the next pic is from today.

I'm on my phone so it's posting the pics sideways. Ugh.

265801265802

[Shewhosweptforest]

Yes now I can clearly see :great his teeth are having issues....they should be nice and straight across....it's not bad...not as bad as Momma Squirrel's ...so that's good...but something is going on. This is a pic of Sweet when she was about 14 weeks old and she had busted her lip....you can see how straight/even her teeth are....this is how Baby's teeth are too...so I'm pretty sure this is the norm....Tumbleweed's bite is slightly off and he's trying to get a good bite....he can feel it's not right....that's what I'm thinking :dono as I said Momma did that as soon as her bite started getting bad and I knew it was getting close to time for a trim. Also an abscess is what made her bite shift...good news.. it straightened up :great

Also you might want to get the vet to straighten them :thumbsup

[Sara in NW MS]

I have some good news... Little Tumbleweed will be seeing a vet in just a few minutes!!! Since it's a holiday week and things are slow at work, one of the vets decided to help me. We are getting xrays of his head and his spine (although we are pretty sure it's not a spinal issue since he has been handled and moving around and there has been no further damage such as paralysis).

The mission impossible theme song has been playing in my head all morning since we had to sneak the little guy in here. Yikes... thank goodness he's quiet and calm/still.

[Spanky]

This is wonderful news! :multi


Let us know if the vet is able to provide any answers or even pieces to the puzzle!

[Nancy in New York]

This is Fantastic! :bliss:bliss:bliss
Keep us posted!

Thanks for the earworm!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtyByefOvgQ

[SammysMom]

:fireworks:Love_Icon:fireworks

[Sara in NW MS]

Well, it looks like little Tumbleweed has a skull fracture and broken ribs. The vet said they aren't "new" and they are healing. I wish I knew what happened to this baby, ugh. He said to keep him on the dex and see how much it will help him. He also said there was no "obvious" sign of infection in his head to make anything come out of his eyes or nose so we aren't sure what that's about. I'm gonna keep him on the Clav in case he does have a uti since he squeaks every time he pees.

He said he didn't know what else to tell me to do for this little one. He said it sounded like we have already covered the bases with his treatment so far. Any suggestions???

[TubeDriver]

I think you are right on. Continue treating him as a recovering TBI squirrel and the AB should eliminate any infections that might be at work.

Tumbleweed is one lucky squirrel to have ended up in your caring hands! :great




Well, it looks like little Tumbleweed has a skull fracture and broken ribs. The vet said they aren't "new" and they are healing. I wish I knew what happened to this baby, ugh. He said to keep him on the dex and see how much it will help him. He also said there was no "obvious" sign of infection in his head to make anything come out of his eyes or nose so we aren't sure what that's about. I'm gonna keep him on the Clav in case he does have a uti since he squeaks every time he pees.

He said he didn't know what else to tell me to do for this little one. He said it sounded like we have already covered the bases with his treatment so far. Any suggestions???

[SammysMom]

:goodpost
I think you are right on. Continue treating him as a recovering TBI squirrel and the AB should eliminate any infections that might be at work.

Tumbleweed is one lucky squirrel to have ended up in your caring hands! :great

[Sara in NW MS]

He was happy to get back home, I kept him wrapped up under my jacket close to my heart while I sat on the sofa with him for a couple hours. I put him back to bed and checked on him just a little while ago. This is what I saw, what a sweet baby to have had something so tragic happen to him. Accident or not, it's just not right. The vet said if he were to guess he would say it was abuse. Possibly squeezed to cause the breaks to his ribs. No telling what causes the skull fracture, it's towards the back of his skull behind his right ear.

No one is ever gonna hurt this baby again, I have promised him that.

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[Nancy in New York]

He was happy to get back home, I kept him wrapped up under my jacket close to my heart while I sat on the sofa with him for a couple hours. I put him back to bed and checked on him just a little while ago. This is what I saw, what a sweet baby to have had something so tragic happen to him. Accident or not, it's just not right. The vet said if he were to guess he would say it was abuse. Possibly squeezed to cause the breaks to his ribs. No telling what causes the skull fracture, it's towards the back of his skull behind his right ear.

No one is ever gonna hurt this baby again, I have promised him that.

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Your words bring tears to my eyes.
I am SO glad he is in your loving hands. :bowdown
:Love_Icon:hug:Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

:hug Sara :hug oh that poor, poor baby and his precious lost siblings :boohoo :shakehead I'm so grateful that Tumbleweed found his way to you :bowdown I think he had to have had an Angel guiding him :Love_Icon he looks like a sweet angel himself...all snuggled in with his stuffie....and I'm so envious of your snuggle time :Love_Icon I know you cherish every moment..and Tumbles knows it too :blowkiss
He knows he's safe from harm, now and forever :grouphug :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

God help the person who could harm this innocent creature. I pray that they feel remorse, even if it was an accident. If it was a child, I certainly hope it was addressed with the severity it deserves.
He will know nothing but love and that is a relief to know...:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

That picture of Tumbleweed is one of the sweetest things I have ever seen.:Love_Icon

I am so glad he is with you. I have trouble thinking about what type of person could intentionally hurt a little creature like Tumbleweed so I am just going to hope it was a fall or some type of accident. The last thing this world needs is another monster roaming among us.

Sleep tight precious little Tumbleweed, you are loved and safe.:grouphug

[Sara in NW MS]

How many days should TW stay on the Clav? He started it last Wednesday night. I checked my pm and it doesn't say how long he should take it.

[Nancy in New York]

How many days should TW stay on the Clav? He started it last Wednesday night. I checked my pm and it doesn't say how long he should take it.

Is this for a suspected UTI?
If so I think that 7 days is sufficient.
Have you noticed any improvement?

[Sara in NW MS]

Yes, we thought he had a UTI. He seems to be doing much better. He hasn't squeaked during urination since last night. He still kicks his legs when he does it though. So I can't say for sure he's better but he seems to be. The odor has subsided and he's back to clear urine so that's a plus.

[SammysMom]

Thats terrific Sara! Keep up the good work!:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Yes, we thought he had a UTI. He seems to be doing much better. He hasn't squeaked during urination since last night. He still kicks his legs when he does it though. So I can't say for sure he's better but he seems to be. The odor has subsided and he's back to clear urine so that's a plus.

You know Sara if you still have it, go another 3 days.
The dosing can range from 5-7 or 7-10.
Let's make sure that we kick it out as long as he isn't having adverse
effects from this like diarrhea or anything, ok? I'm saying this too
since he squeaked last night as well, we'll just play it "safe" and extend
to a total of 10 days.
:hug

[Chickenlegs]

He's safe, warm, loved and HEALING! Nite nite Tumbleweed. Love you little boy. :Love_Icon

[Sara in NW MS]

okay, I need some help with a few things. This morning when I went to get TW he was wet with urine. I gave him a mini bath to get him all cleaned up and he did the squeaking thing again. He has done this before and I thought it was because it was painful to him when he would urinate. He went on Clav for 10 days just in case it was a UTI. He's been off the antibiotics for a couple days now and he's still doing it. I don't know if it's painful for him to urinate or poop. He will stretch his back legs out and kick while he squeaks and at the same time he pees and poops. He did this over and over again this morning. His poop isn't hard, it's perfectly round balls and it's a normal color.

If he is able to move his arms and legs and he can twist his body around, why is he not able to move his tail at all? It just hangs when I'm holding him, never even see it twitch. And his eye, the one that protrudes more than the other... Is that always going to be that way? He keeps his head tilted and that eye is always facing upward. When he lies on his side, he has that eye on the side that's not against his bed. He acts like it's uncomfortable for him to sleep on his "good" side. Does that make sense?

I also need to figure out how I can get more dex for him. I was given the 4mg pills and I can't keep bugging this person to give me more since I know it's not easy to get. Supplies are running low for them.

[TubeDriver]

I had a couple of thoughts. Ten days of clavamox as well as clear, non smelly urine should mean that there is no UTI at this point. So I do not think the squeaking is related to a UTI.

I wonder if the stretching and kicking you see when he poops/pees is just the way he helps himself to void? Perhaps the additional movement makes it easier for him to poop and pee?

It is possible that there is some spinal damage very low that has resulted in tail paralysis (but NOT hind leg paralysis) or that some damage to the brain (motor cortex etc) has resulted in the loss of tail use (with corresponding loss of overall gross and fine motor control).

Are you sure he can see out of both eyes? It would makes sense that he favor one eye if he has reduced or no vision in the other eye?

Just some musings, not really sure what is going on with little TW but he is young so hopefully he can recover a lot!:great




okay, I need some help with a few things. This morning when I went to get TW he was wet with urine. I gave him a mini bath to get him all cleaned up and he did the squeaking thing again. He has done this before and I thought it was because it was painful to him when he would urinate. He went on Clav for 10 days just in case it was a UTI. He's been off the antibiotics for a couple days now and he's still doing it. I don't know if it's painful for him to urinate or poop. He will stretch his back legs out and kick while he squeaks and at the same time he pees and poops. He did this over and over again this morning. His poop isn't hard, it's perfectly round balls and it's a normal color.

If he is able to move his arms and legs and he can twist his body around, why is he not able to move his tail at all? It just hangs when I'm holding him, never even see it twitch. And his eye, the one that protrudes more than the other... Is that always going to be that way? He keeps his head tilted and that eye is always facing upward. When he lies on his side, he has that eye on the side that's not against his bed. He acts like it's uncomfortable for him to sleep on his "good" side. Does that make sense?

I also need to figure out how I can get more dex for him. I was given the 4mg pills and I can't keep bugging this person to give me more since I know it's not easy to get. Supplies are running low for them.

[HRT4SQRLS]

The kicking, squeaking, pooping and peeking isn't a seizure, is it?

A question about the head tilt and eye bulging... is the tilt toward the bad eye? Sorry, if I missed it but I can't read the thread right now. At work :tilt

Rub around his ears and see if he reacts with any pain. Head tilts sometimes are caused by ear infection. I was given a kitten to rescue. I was told he always had the head tilt. I now know that he was having seizures. Didn't recognize it at the time. His ear ruptured and pus poured out. I started Clavamox but he only lived a few hours. That's why I'm questioning the head tilt.

[Sara in NW MS]

I had a couple of thoughts. Ten days of clavamox as well as clear, non smelly urine should mean that there is no UTI at this point. So I do not think the squeaking is related to a UTI.

I wonder if the stretching and kicking you see when he poops/pees is just the way he helps himself to void? Perhaps the additional movement makes it easier for him to poop and pee?

It is possible that there is some spinal damage very low that has resulted in tail paralysis (but NOT hind leg paralysis) or that some damage to the brain (motor cortex etc) has resulted in the loss of tail use (with corresponding loss of overall gross and fine motor control).

Are you sure he can see out of both eyes? It would makes sense that he favor one eye if he has reduced or no vision in the other eye?

Just some musings, not really sure what is going on with little TW but he is young so hopefully he can recover a lot!:great


I've been thinking the kicking of his legs helped him go but the squeaking sounds so different than squirrel sounds. He's actually a really quiet guy, except for when he goes to the bathroom. It's just concerning cuz it makes me think something is hurting him.

As far as his eyes, I don't know if he can see out of both of them. It seems like he "looks around" with that protruding eye which baffles me. I would have assumed that eye would be his bad eye since it protrudes so much and the eye itself doesn't look like his other "normal" eye.

[TubeDriver]

You can try a couple things for the eye.

Shine a penlight and see if his pupil dilates?

Move your hand slowly closer to his eye (on one side) and see if he reacts (blinks or moves head).



I've been thinking the kicking of his legs helped him go but the squeaking sounds so different than squirrel sounds. He's actually a really quiet guy, except for when he goes to the bathroom. It's just concerning cuz it makes me think something is hurting him.

As far as his eyes, I don't know if he can see out of both of them. It seems like he "looks around" with that protruding eye which baffles me. I would have assumed that eye would be his bad eye since it protrudes so much and the eye itself doesn't look like his other "normal" eye.

[Sara in NW MS]

The kicking, squeaking, pooping and peeking isn't a seizure, is it?

A question about the head tilt and eye bulging... is the tilt toward the bad eye? Sorry, if I missed it but I can't read the thread right now. At work :tilt

Rub around his ears and see if he reacts with any pain. Head tilts sometimes are caused by ear infection. I was given a kitten to rescue. I was told he always had the head tilt. I now know that he was having seizures. Didn't recognize it at the time. His ear ruptured and pus poured out. I started Clavamox but he only lived a few hours. That's why I'm questioning the head tilt.

I don't think he's having seizures. It doesn't seem like it when this happens.

I'll attach a pic that shows the head tilt and his bad eye. I do know if I run around his ear on the other side of his head... He always brings his back leg up and tries to scratch exactly where I am rubbing. I just assumed it was his "magic" spot. This is the ear on the opposite side of his head from the protruding eye.

[Sara in NW MS]

Guess it would help if I attached the pic!

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[Sara in NW MS]

Is this a seizure??? The first few seconds of the video is what freaks me out.

https://youtu.be/yyqU253HNXs

[SammysMom]

Is that him when he is peeing and pooping? God I love this little one...:Love_Icon

[Sara in NW MS]

Yes, that's what he does when he's peeing and pooping except the really fast arm movement isn't common. That happened tonight and the first night I started this thread. But the squeaking sound is every time he goes to the bathroom.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Sara, I'm certainly not an expert on seizures but I think it does look like a seizure.
On the other hand, I know a young man that is severely handicapped due to cerebral palsy and he will spontaneously start flailing his arm and he is not having a seizure. It's just part of his brain injury.

Could you have a vet look at the video?

[Sara in NW MS]

I can share the video with a vet at work. I'll see what he says. There isn't a guarantee he will see it tomorrow tho.

[SammysMom]

It almost looks like struggling to right himself to his feet. Like it seems you'd think he'd want to be to go to the bathroom. There is a possibility that it's a seizure, but it seems more like a sensory issue because of the need to go potty. That is totally my possible suggestion, so it is not based on experience. All I know for sure is that he is right where he belongs...:Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

Oh sweetie pie :Love_Icon bless his heart and your's :Love_Icon I agree I think he looks like he wants to right himself...you know when a squirrel in normal health gets their nail caught or something like that...they will spaz out...so that could be exactly what he's doing....I was concerned about the mouth movements....but he did look like he thought he was getting something to his mouth and then he was doing that grinding teeth thing :dono maybe he's thinking he's gotten something to chew on... I tell you it would be good for you to look at some of the videos jbartell has up of her Alex....there are some videos showing his movements that might help you determine if it's a seizure or just him trying to be a squirrelie :Love_Icon