Circling help

[Mommaluvy]

Ok. I got this kid in .. She was the one with smelly poop. Solid but stink. IR said that kitten milk was still in her system and I think she was right. Not so stinky now. Swamp mud stench gone.

But.. She circles.
She was about 7-9 weeks when she came in. Was just out screaming for mom when finder took her in.

So once in the cage she spins in circles like she is chasing her tail. Then she repetitious jumps off and onto the wall. To ME IT LOOKED MORE LIKE BOREDOM . She is a half wild. Not used to being caged.

But today she went into the big critter nation cage.. And the others are just eating branches and mulberry leaves. And Nuttella is just out chasing her tail.

I have had her for 2/3 weeks. Everything else is normal..

[stepnstone]

Could she have possibly fallen being a head drop baby causing a neuro condition?
Sometimes the symptoms won't show right away but the circling is often a sign of being neuro.
You may want to try treating with predisone to see if her condition improves.

[Mommaluvy]

She certainly could have been. And she has always done it . The finders thought it was cute. Its different from the circling i have seen though in confirmed neuro cases.

Ill try to get video of it. She is the most hyper and active squirrel i have ever seen.

I guess my biggest question is can confinement make them behave in repitious behaviors? She paces the cage too. She will spin and then jump and rabbit kick the side of the cage and repeat that till i offer a nugget of food . She does it most often when i am feeding the smaller ones and she is not so patiently waiting for her turn.

[stepnstone]

She certainly could have been. And she has always done it . The finders thought it was cute. Its different from the circling i have seen though in confirmed neuro cases.

Ill try to get video of it. She is the most hyper and active squirrel i have ever seen.

I guess my biggest question is can confinement make them behave in repitious behaviors? She paces the cage too. She will spin and then jump and rabbit kick the side of the cage and repeat that till i offer a nugget of food . She does it most often when i am feeding the smaller ones and she is not so patiently waiting for her turn.

I'm sure you have seen the older ones doing that repetitious "flipping" they do when
they are close to release so I'd have to say yes it is a possibility.....

"jump and rabbit kick the side of the cage"
Sounds like she's got you trained for that "nugget of food." http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/xd-laugh.gif

[Mommaluvy]

I'm sure you have seen the older ones doing that repetitious "flipping" they do when
they are close to release so I'd have to say yes it is a possibility.....

"jump and rabbit kick the side of the cage"
Sounds like she's got you trained for that "nugget of food." http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/xd-laugh.gif

Actually I have not ever seen that before ! But then I am only on squirrel release number 11. But I think that is it.

I'll try to get a video of it today.

[lovesmice]

I have heard of this behavior in other rodents, and it is sometimes considered a form of OCD. I have not read any scientific journals/studies on it, but one of the hamster sites talks a bit about it in hamsters. Anyway, I think you are spot on that confinement can affect behavior:

http://www.hammysworld.com/index.php?p=circle

[Fireweed]

Well, Mommaluvy, I sure hope your little one's circling is not neuro and that things can improve with more stimulation! I came on today looking for more info on circling because one of my little reds is now circling (as of today!). He was found with eye trauma (and likely head trauma) on the highway after being hit by something (possibly a rock?). I'm just wondering if the circling can show up nearly one year later? He's not confined to a cage, so I doubt it's OCD behaviour - he's always seemed really happy in his room and has never shown signs of boredom/pacing etc.

Mommaluvy (or anyone), you wouldn't happen to know of any videos of circling would you? You mention the circling you see now is unlike neuro circling... what's the difference? My little one is circling in tight circles and I have to pin him down and rub his cheeks to get him to calm down and stop. He will start up again if he gets excited and when not as "wound up" he'll even run in larger circles - always in the direction of his bad eye. He's also nodding his head in the direction of the bad eye in between bouts of circling.

Anyone know what can be done? Is it a form of seizure? There's a possibility he could've fallen this morning - but when I already suspected neuro damage from the start, seems more likely it's rearing its ugly head, no? :thinking

[Nancy in New York]

I myself just quickly came on and saw this.
Not sure if it's mentioned in the thread or not.
I remembered reading this on a rat site a long time ago.
I am just copying and pasting here.
Fireweed, it is SO great to see YOU! :hug

"Sounds like classic inner ear infection. Baytril, doxycycline and metacam or prednisone and he will be good as new. The cirlcing is classic to ear infection due to his balance being off from inflammation deep within the ear. His head may tilt to the side and that is common but it may take longer to go away than the balance problems."

[Mommaluvy]

This is not a good example of the circling but it is a good example of sort of what I am seeing in this squirrel when I say rabbit kicking the cage. http://youtu.be/O1yl1ZMiHgY

Now if you combine this video .. Which is neuro circling and combine a few of these spins with a rabbit kick to the cage then you have what my guy is doing.. http://youtu.be/autPOvHyrXg BUT I STRESS HE DOES NOT NEED ME TO STOP HIM AND IS EASILY DISTRACTED FROM THIS BEHAVIOR IF I SO MUCH AS APPROACH THE CAGE. ( the kid in this video has also likely been struck by car.

I have seen stuff like this .. But oddly it was when I first put them in a larger enclosure . The squirrel in this video loos to me to be bored and cramped.. But when mine did it I thought they were happy . Cause I had just put them it.. It was like he was saying.. Wow.. I can run in and out.. In and out and all a round. http://youtu.be/fEe5XQ1KO1o But this guy just looks bored to me.

I wish I had taken video of my head trauma girl.with her rigid legs.. But glad she is healed and can no longer obtain video like that.



Here is an example of a head tilt circling... http://youtu.be/jZly5B3tQIg Little one probably has been hit by car in this video.

I think if your seeing a "wild" do this.. One not in a cage your dealing with inner ear or head trauma .

[Fireweed]

Omg, those videos were hard to watch.

Sounds like yours is doing the equivalent of pacing but with circling and flips and kicks. A bigger cage may seem like a lot to us but it's still a cage and confinement to some squirrels, especially if they were old enough to be out of the nest when found. She may be feeling very stressed being with the others, too? If she's constantly doing it, it doesn't seem like happy-behaviour. It seems like stress/ocd.

Mine looks just like the poor foxer and the reddish squirrel (european red?) with head tilt, nodding, and circling... except tighter circles because he's so little and fast. :shakehead

:grouphugNancy:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

So hard to see those injured squirrels in the video above. :(

There is clearly a big difference between pacing/running routines in a cage that signifies boredom and the type of spinning/tilting behavior that results from head trauma or some type of inner ear infection.


Fireweed - If your squirrel was acting fine for a full year and then all of a sudden is circling and head nodding then I would guess that he recently took a fall and/or had a seizure that has caused some damage. I would treat it as recent head trauma (keep him as quiet as possible for a few days and consider prednisone although I know that is a charged topic around here when dealing with head trauma).

[Fireweed]

Fireweed - If your squirrel was acting fine for a full year and then all of a sudden is circling and head nodding then I would guess that he recently took a fall and/or had a seizure that has caused some damage. I would treat it as recent head trauma (keep him as quiet as possible for a few days and consider prednisone although I know that is a charged topic around here when dealing with head trauma).
Thanks, TD. He could've had a seizure or maybe knocked into something because he can't see out of his one eye - and then had a seizure? Oh, the possibilities. :poke
He seems 'fine' right now - like nothing ever happened. I put him in his cage so he wouldn't hurt himself, turned the lights off and he has returned to 'normal'. He's since been playing and eating and doesn't really seem fazed... Moving normally, too. Now he's taking a nap. I hope there are no more episodes...

Thanks for letting me use your thread, Mommaluvy. :tilt :o :hug

[lovesmice]

Fireweed, HammysWorld has videos of a hamster with circling as well as head tilt/balance issues from inner ear infection and stroke. (Pituitary Tumor is the third main reason for head tilt/balance issues in many rodents.) Click on the little video camera/hamster icons. (I agree with TD, though, that it sounds like head trauma.)

http://www.hammysworld.com/index.php?p=circle

http://www.hammysworld.com/index.php?p=tilt

MommaLuvy, they used to have a hamster doing backflips on this site (HW), but for whatever reason they removed it. I will see if I can locate it elsewhere.

[Mommaluvy]

Well I watched and watched and Jaws re..... I mean Nutella has stopped doing it with the larger critter nation cage.

Td totally understand what your saying. Consistent is not happy.

And no problem Fireweed ! I don't mind the discussion one bit.

[Mommaluvy]

Just wanted to update on this kid.

She stopped the behavior in the bigger cage. But restarted it ironically, the night before she moved into the release cage.

For 3 weeks none of it.

This afternoon in the 8x8x8 huge cage - she was spotted doing similar larger circling with extra running up and down and around things. Her release is scheduled for Sunday Am . In her case... I think it was a reaction to captivity. It looks much more like the one video of the poor squirrel in a cage at the pet store. Only she has a larger cage to do that in.