Seizures?? No hair still??

[Crittercare098]

Hi everyone, i posted about Ellie about a week ago now. She was the small, 22.5 gram, neglected 3 week old baby. She still has not opened her eyes, and she has not even gotten hair over her entire body yet... I was thinking maybe mange, but there are no scabs or dandruff or anything anywhere on her body. She was peeling (her stomach) about 3 days ago, but I put her under warm water and it has not happened again.

Today, I went to feed her (she is up to 3-4 cc every 3 hours) and as I picked her up, she had what at first I thought was just sleep jerks. She has had them before, (sleep jerks) and as soon as I start talking to her, or touch her she "wakes up" and stops immediately. This time though, I couldn't get her to snap out of it. I held her in my hand, and closed my hand enough to make her feel secure. It lasted for probably about a minute (maybe a little less, I was panicked so not sure of exactly how long it took). And then froze up curled in a ball for probably 30 more seconds breathing heavy before she woke up and wanted to eat. I waited 15 minutes before I fed her to make sure it wasn't going to happen again, and she ate her normal amount, and took it better than she normally does. She was very eager to start eating. It happened about 4 hours ago, and no vet has been able to see me until at least tomorrow. The one vet who agreed to even see her is 3 hours away from where I am now. I switched her back to pedialyte for the last 3 feedings, and moved the feedings up to every 1 1/2-2 hours. I'm not too sure what to think... To me it seems like seizures262713, but again, she's had the sleep jerks?? I included pictures of her.

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[HRT4SQRLS]

Is this the baby that clicking a few days ago? Did you get the dosing for the Cipro?

What formula are you feeding? I remember you were trying to get formula in the middle of the night. :tilt What did you get? The baby is way too small for 3 weeks. That does sound like a seizure. After a seizure you should put some form of glucose/sugar under her tongue like molasses, syrup etc.

Is she on a heating pad? She looks very frail. I would give hydration between feedings if necessary because she does need nutrition.

What's with the ears? She almost looks like a dwarf.

[stepnstone]

Good questions!
She definitely looks nutritionally deficient, subqed and hydrated repeatedly won't fix that.
All three forums on this baby read like a nightmare with unanswered questions, abruptly stopping, no update.
This is not the way to solve issues or prevent future ones.

Continuous input is what's needed to help this baby that is
now turning a critical corner. Please work with us....

[Crittercare098]

Yes, the clicking is gone, and we are done with the cipro as of last night (we started Monday of last week). I have been giving her Esbilac. I ordered FV but was advised against it. The guy I got her and her brother from had them for a week and a half for sure... He had taken pics and the pics were time stamped, because they didn't look 3 weeks to me either. The first pic he has of her she already has the fur on her head. I had her on the goats milk/yogurt mix until Thursday of last week because I could not get ahold of the Esbilac, and she only gained 2 grams in those 3 days. I ordered the esbilac powdered online, and she was having trouble switching over, so for the first day I mixed it 3 water 2 esbilac and 1 yogurt. She ate that for the first 4 feedings, and then was on 3/2 esbilac until Saturday when we switched to 2/ 1.

Yes, she is in one of this Tupperware containers (the storage ones, it's about 24x12 inches, with a fleece blanket and a heating pad under all of it. And the Tupperware is inside of a dog crate, which gets covered with a blanket in between feedings. So she isn't directly covered up with the heating pad but the crate itself is, so it holds in heat.


I'm not sure about the ears to be honest with you. To me, they are smaller than most of the babies I generally get in. She already has teeth by the way- on top and on the bottom. I will try to upload a front pic of her Head/face.

[Crittercare098]

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She looks more like a rat to me at times than she does a squirrel in her face.

[stepnstone]

Yes, the clicking is gone, and we are done with the cipro as of last night (we started Monday of last week). I have been giving her Esbilac. I ordered FV but was advised against it. The guy I got her and her brother from had them for a week and a half for sure... He had taken pics and the pics were time stamped, because they didn't look 3 weeks to me either. The first pic he has of her she already has the fur on her head. I had her on the goats milk/yogurt mix until Thursday of last week because I could not get ahold of the Esbilac, and she only gained 2 grams in those 3 days. I ordered the esbilac powdered online, and she was having trouble switching over, so for the first day I mixed it 3 water 2 esbilac and 1 yogurt. She ate that for the first 4 feedings, and then was on 3/2 esbilac until Saturday when we switched to 2/ 1.

Yes, she is in one of this Tupperware containers (the storage ones, it's about 24x12 inches, with a fleece blanket and a heating pad under all of it. And the Tupperware is inside of a dog crate, which gets covered with a blanket in between feedings. So she isn't directly covered up with the heating pad but the crate itself is, so it holds in heat.


I'm not sure about the ears to be honest with you. To me, they are smaller than most of the babies I generally get in. She already has teeth by the way- on top and on the bottom. I will try to upload a front pic of her Head/face.

:thankyou:grouphug




http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=262734&stc=1


She looks more like a rat to me at times than she does a squirrel in her face.

It's those rounded ears~ strange, but look at that little face, she is precious. :Love_Icon

[Crittercare098]

I couldn't find the first thread when I was asking about the cipro dosing, which is why I started the second. I was talking to Crittermom about continuing the first thread, but again when my internet went down due to storms I again couldn't find it. I'm having trouble navigating this site on my phone, which unfortunately is the only Internet access I have at the moment, and I didn't even have that for most of last week. Trust me, I was excited about sharing her progress with you all. You all are the reason she is alive to begin with.

I'm sorry for not continuing on one thread, I'm trying my best not to make this confusing but I just wanted answers as quickly as possible for her. I couldn't figure out how to delete the cipro thread, the second one? Unless I have to be an admin, which please by all means delete that one, again I don't mean to be confusing. I just want what is best for her, so she can ultimately be free again.


I haven't given sub Qs since the first day, not since getting advice on here that oral hydration was the best option.

She will be going to the vet tomorrow, but I was looking for as many answers as I could get before then. I just want what is best for her, like I said.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm not sure where you are so I don't know what type of squirrels you have in your area but is it a grey squirrel? Those ears do look odd to me. They are very small and set way back on the head. I have no experience with them but I wonder if this is a 'downs' squirrel or sometimes called a dwarf. Hopefully others with that type of experience will give an opinion.

I guess we will give her a few day to catch up because of the formula change. The goats milk isn't complete nutritionally (that's why it's a temporary formula) but I would have though she would have grown more than that even on the goat milk. Of course, she was fighting pneumonia.

Just to make sure, you have the powdered puppy Esbilac with probiotics and prebiotics, right? And you're mixing one scoop of powder with 2 scoops of water?

[HRT4SQRLS]

You don't have to continue on the same thread. This is fine. We don't delete other threads. I guess when your internet was down we were hanging wondering what was up with the baby.

The hair loss and seizure is very concerning as it indicates the baby is going in the wrong direction. :(

[Crittercare098]

We are in Florida, and I believe she is a grey squirrel. I don't have ANY experience with dwarves... How would this affect her release?? 😭😭😭😭😭

Yes, exactly (on formula).

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh, Florida... yes I would say grey squirrel.

I'm just guessing about the 'down' part but downs babies would not be releasable. They are very fragile and have a short life expectancy but they are sweet. It's a genetic anomaly. I'm definitely not saying for sure that's what it is.

Just curious, what's your general area in FL. There is a vet in Port Orange, near Daytona that has a lot of experience with downs babies. She had one.

[Crittercare098]

IF this is her issue, and I sincerely hope it isn't, she would be welcome to stay with me.

We are a few hours southwest of Daytona, but if she would benefit from it in any way, I will see about making the drive. I don't understand why she isn't gaining like any of my other babies. I am hoping I will get answers tomorrow.

I don't want to put exact location for security purposes, but again I am willing to contact, talk to, or consult with anyone in order to help her.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I understand .. Lately I'm getting a little 'squirrelly' about my location also. :peace :rotfl

Let us know what the vet says. It could just be the rough start she got with the other guy, the pneumonia, switching formula, etc. Let's hope so.

Again, I don't know if this is the problem or not but just as an FYI, the symptoms of a dwarf or 'downs' are ... Ears low on the head, small stature, difficulty maintaining body heat, failure to thrive and a host of other issues like swallowing problems that would make them more prone to pneumonia. Also, the one I saw had a short tail... cute as a button. :tilt They usually have a short life expectancy.

Good luck to you!!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh, one last thing ... you mentioned moving the feedings up to 1-1.5 hours. I don't think I would do that. I would watch the milk line. You don't want to put new formula in the tummy while old formula is still there. The last thing you need is for her to bloat. I think the 3 hours is OK if she's taking her full amount. Until she picks up some, I would feed her through the night also. :tilt

[Crittercare098]

She wasn't eating as much with the pedialyte, so that was what I moved up. I am going to mention it to him tomorrow... All of the symptoms you have mentioned are spot on with her. She latched good for the first few seconds but goes into what seems to be a "milk trance" or what I have been taught is a milk trance idk f that is the well known term. But her tongue sucks but not around the nipple. I pull the nipple out of her mouth, and she starts looking for it again. Feedings take almost 20 minutes each because of how slow we have had to go with her. I just figured her being so deprived so early on that it could be attributed to that.

Last feeding was at 9, and she had close to 4 cc of formula. The way we were doing it before was at night she would go an extra hour, because she really wasn't all that into eating at night. She would complain, and then only take 1 cc, maybe 2 if we were lucky. The extra hour really made a difference. I think tonight I will offer at the 3 hour mark, and then again at 4 if she doesn't eat at 3. At this point I'm willing to try both for her.

It's good info to know. I want to see what he says first about her, and then go with the suggestions from there. Fingers crossed it is just the rough start. I will definitely keep this thread updated. Now that I can find it (or rather, dont exit out of the tab on my phone, lol)

Just out of curiosity, how common is this condition?

[Mommaluvy]

1 in 800 human pregnancies :)

Kidding. My daughter has the human DS.

Kinda rareish though in squirrels. But a few people her have had that joy. They like to cuddle.

Anyhow .. I think her size and splotchy fur etc is from nutrition or lack there of . I got in 3 this spring that were 4/5 weeks and looked like that. They had been fed a horrible formula. They were still pinkie sized.

She may have other issues like downs etc. Hearts advice is golden.

What are the small white bumps on her back? Old scars?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Just out of curiosity, how common is this condition?

It's not common at all. I would say it is rare actually. I have been on TSB since 2011 and I have seen maybe 3 ... I think. Dr. Emerson's would be about 4.

Keep in mind I'm no one to be making a diagnosis on this as I have no experience with it at all. It was just her odd ears that caught my eye. I have to agree with step ... she has a precious face. Maybe she'll grow into those tiny ears. :tilt
Who knows, she might have gotten those ears from her mama. :great

[Crittercare098]

Yes, all of her scabs fell off about 2 days ago now. She was found at the bottom of a rose bush, and then extremely neglected for at least a week and a half. The man who had them actually admitted to not feeding them for a few days at a time because he "forgot they were there". I wanted to badly to do bad things to him once he finally called me. They looked like zombies. His wife (soon to be ex)told me they got into a fight over them, and at one point before she told him she wanted a divorce he told her that if he couldn't have them that no one could.

What little they ate with him was KMR as well. I have ahead her just over a week now.

[Crittercare098]

Well, we just got home from the vet, and we don't have much to go on. He didn't want to do any kind of skin scrape to test for mange, and said if that is what she had and that's why she doesn't have hair that she is too young /weak to worry about treating right now anyway. He isn't comfortable treating her just yet.

As far as the seizures go, since it was a single, isolated incident, he wants to just monitor her for now. He said again, she is small for meds, and it's really hard to tell at such a young age a definite diagnosis. He mentioned her ears as well, saying they were very abnormally placed/sized and he had never seen this like this before. He said she was slightly dehydrated, so he wants me to do feedings every 3 hours, 3 cc instead of 4, and 1-2 cc of pedialyte in between feedings (so every hour and a half) for the next 6 hours.

I mentioned what you said about dwarfism, and he said he had never seen a case first hand, but that if she did have it, again, it would be too early to tell.

He mentioned that her teeth are long for her size as well.

If all goes well, he doesn't want to see her again until she opens her eyes. He did, however, give me his cell number to call him if anything should happen before that time.

So I guess it's just a waiting game at this point.

Until then, here is a picture of Miss Ellie May today

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[CritterMom]

Poor little thing...I think that 95% of all the issues you are seeing are due to malnutrition. They grow so fast, being malnourished during that time can have such disastrous results. Hopefully getting all the right stuff from this point on will turn the poor little thing around. I don't think she looks mange-y - it roughens the skin, too. I think her little body was using every single scrap of nutrition it got to hang on and extraneous things like growing hair were put on hold. It may also account for the little mouse ears.

[Sara in NW MS]

She's just precious!!! What a gift, you have been blessed with a special baby and she's been blessed to have someone as caring as you, to take care of her.

I'm glad she's doing better, hopefully you will have more answers as she continues to grow.

Does she have a name? I read the thread and I don't remember seeing a name. Something this cute deserves a name!

:serene

[Crittercare098]

We named her Ellie, and her brothers name was PETE (anyone get the reference? It's an old movie....) I am hoping it is just malnutrition. I long for the day this baby will be able to be released. She will definitely be a bitter sweet (although ARENT they all) extra special release

[Crittercare098]

Hi everyone! I thought this post would be entirely happy, however I have some icky news as well. Ellie opened her eyes late last night, and has begun to grow her hair back!! She has little peach fuzzies all over her body. This makes me SO happy knowing she is finally getting the nutrition she needs. Things were finally starting to look up for her.

Last feeding I went in to stimulate etc, and noticed a little discharge coming from her nose. I put her back after stimulating to get her formula and when I came back she seemed to be wheezing, and sneezed up snot. Like, thick snot. I'm not too sure what to do, because other than the snot, she is not clicking etc. but she definitely has the discharge. I still have the cipro 500s, but it's only been a week since she stopped getting it. I don't really feel comfortable putting her back on it?? Idk. I've never had back to back problems like this. She has not aspirated, nor has the milk come through her nose at all since she has been with me. We just have to go really really slow with feedings because her tongue does not fully grasp the nipple still, and she falls asleep during feedings etc.

She is definitely bigger now, so if I do start the cipro again I would need help with dosage, and can post her updated weight should it be needed. I am out of town right now for a family funeral, and of course brought her with me. We will be here until Tuesday, so I don't have access to a vet that I trust until then.

Thank you guys in advace!

I will have to post pics of her hair growing back in :)

[Penelope]

I am really new to the squirrel world,so I am no expert for sure.I do have a dwarf squirrel and her ears are rounded also.My baby is very delicate and I am told they are prone to seizures.If you are in Florida I would highly recommend Dr.Emerson from the Ravenwood Clinic.She has literally been a lifesaver in helping me with my baby even though we are states apart.I can say she is an expert with any questions you might have.She also had one of these babies so she has wonderful lifesaving advice and tips to help you care for these babies.I would drive hours to see her just not across country! I am so thankful to her.If you call there make sure you mention what you think you might have,they are all so helpful. Dr.Emerson told me strangely enough there for some reason are more of these babies in the squirrel species than in other animal species.These squirrels are very prone to aspirating.Mine has had pneumonia and aspirates very easily even with trying to be very careful.Maybe this is not the problem with your baby just wanted you to know where you can look to for help.I did not have a vet locally that had really seen this before so it was difficult to seek help.Good luck with your baby!

[HRT4SQRLS]

I am really new to the squirrel world,so I am no expert for sure.I do have a dwarf squirrel and her ears are rounded also.My baby is very delicate and I am told they are prone to seizures.If you are in Florida I would highly recommend Dr.Emerson from the Ravenwood Clinic.She has literally been a lifesaver in helping me with my baby even though we are states apart.I can say she is an expert with any questions you might have.She also had one of these babies so she has wonderful lifesaving advice and tips to help you care for these babies.I would drive hours to see her just not across country! I am so thankful to her.If you call there make sure you mention what you think you might have,they are all so helpful. Dr.Emerson told me strangely enough there for some reason are more of these babies in the squirrel species than in other animal species.These squirrels are very prone to aspirating.Mine has had pneumonia and aspirates very easily even with trying to be very careful.Maybe this is not the problem with your baby just wanted you to know where you can look to for help.I did not have a vet locally that had really seen this before so it was difficult to seek help.Good luck with your baby!

:goodpost Thank you Penelope. This is excellent advice. I remember just a few weeks ago your baby was dying from pneumonia and am so happy to see she survived.

CC8, I would start the Cipro again OR I would take her to see Dr.Emerson. I don't believe you necessarily have to see them aspirate. Some animals AND people are silent aspirators due to swallowing issues. It is a problem with elderly people and dwarf squirrels. My grandmother had this issue. We were told that 10% of the liquids she swallowed went into her lungs. She constantly had pneumonia. We had to add a thickener to all her liquids to prevent this. If she is a dwarf she would have swallowing issues that would make her prone to pneumonia.

I'll just throw this out there for you to consider. I know you mentioned keeping Ellie and for that I am very happy. Thank you for helping her no matter how this turns out. I did want to let you know that recently Dr.Emerson expressed interest in getting another dwarf squirrel if one was ever available. She has a special place in her heart for them. I'm only telling you this so that you would know that you have another option if you are unable to keep her. Either way, she is an excellent resource.

Could you post an updated pic? ALL of her problems might be nutritional and none of this would apply to her. If it is nutritional she should completely recover and that would be wonderful. :grin2

[Crittercare098]

Thank you everyone! Can I just google the number fr Dr. Emerson at said clinic and tell them I heard about them through TSB? If needed, I will definitely drive to see her. If this is her problem, and I am able to give her a quality life where she is happy, loved, and not uncomfortable in any way, then I will do so. However, if Dr. Emerson expressed in any way shape or form that I am not fit to keep her, or she will be uncomfortable with me, then I will of course, consider all options. If this means giving her up, then so be it. It will be extremely hard, especially if this is her issue and she will not be releaaed either way, however again I just want what's best for her.

What is the dosage for cipro on her now? She is 66 grams.

Here is an updated pic of her

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[HRT4SQRLS]

Thank you everyone! Can I just google the number fr Dr. Emerson at said clinic and tell them I heard about them through TSB? If needed, I will definitely drive to see her. If this is her problem, and I am able to give her a quality life where she is happy, loved, and not uncomfortable in any way, then I will do so. However, if Dr. Emerson expressed in any way shape or form that I am not fit to keep her, or she will be uncomfortable with me, then I will of course, consider all options. If this means giving her up, then so be it. It will be extremely hard, especially if this is her issue and she will not be releaaed either way, however again I just want what's best for her.

What is the dosage for cipro on her now? She is 66 grams.

Here is an updated pic of her

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What is the concentration of your Cipro? Is it already made into a liquid?
If you love her and are willing to keep her, you should keep her. Dr. Emerson would NEVER suggest that you are less than capable of caring for Ellie. She's just not like that. :tilt We really don't even know yet if she is a dwarf.

Front the pic, her fur looks 100% better already. She is definitely getting better but the sneezing and nasal discharge is a concern. I am still hopeful that she is normal in every way and just got a bad start in life.

Yes, you could contact her by emailing her at her practice.

[Crittercare098]

Her fur is definitely better. I am very happy with it so far. I will definitely email her today and see if she can call me and give her advice on her. I will take all the help I can get with this little princess.

I have 500 mg Cipro tablets. I was instructed as to how to dilute it already, but she has tripled her original weight. I know normally dosages aren't posted on public threads, but if someone can inbox me I will explain how I was told to dissolve it, and then the dosage I was given on it. Like I said, she is now 66 grams

[Crittercare098]

Hi all! Ellie's fur continues to grow in, and is very light. Her eyes have opened, and been open, but look a little odd to me. I emailed Dr. Emerson, and I am awaiting a response. I included pics of Ellie in the email, as well as my phone number.

Here are some updated pics of Miss Ellie, including pics of her ears/eyes. She has JUST finished eating in these pics, so she wants everyone to excuse her fat little belly! Lol.

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[Crittercare098]

Hi all! I just wanted to give a quick update and let everyone know that baby Ellie is doing amazing. She has all of her fur, minus a few spots where she had scars, and she is still missing spots on her tail. She is eating every 4 hours now, and will still not take ANY solid foods. She will however lick up some baby food but very very little. She is still relatively small, at around 110 grams. He weight is proportional to her body size, as her entire little body can still fit in my hand. We went back to the vet last week, and he said other than her small size everything looks good. She is SUPER snuggly. We have been trying to distance ourselves from her, but when she is put back after a feeding she sits by the cage door and chirps loudly until we come back in the room. If her cage door is left open and we sit on the floor with her, she will crawl over to us and sit and talk until we pick her up, and then I'll go to sleep. She is still very low energy... She will move around for about 5-10 minutes, and then will sleep for a few hours.