Pneumonia--Baytril dosing & probiotics advice needed

[Gardentoes11]

Hi, guys! Today's daily adventure with raising Ulysses has started with pneumonia. He was a little off his feed & not as energetic last night, but I didn't notice the clicking until this am, when he was VERY lethargic. He was a bit dehydrated, so I gave him Pedialyte, but he wasn't swallowing it well. Not sure how much he actually drank & how much he ended up wearing. I know he did get some, though, & we went through 3 cc's. He is about 5 weeks, eyes open, fox squirrel, & he weighs 90 grams.

I have some liquid Baytril, but I need dosing instructions, please. I've searched on here, but haven't found any specifics for his weight.

Also, I've learned on here that probiotics are to be given 2 hrs before & after AB's. Questions: 1) Is that before/after every dose? 2) Where do I get probiotics? 3) What form are the probiotics in? I have some colon health capsules that are probiotics for humans that I got for myself after a nasty bout with diverticulitis myself last New Year's....is that what we're talking about?

When I saw how bad Ulysses was this morning, I did give him 2 drops of Baytril right away, before reading about the probiotics. Once I read about that, I wasn't sure he had 2 hrs to spare before dosing with AB anyway.

Final question: Is there anything else I can do for him besides Baytril, hydration, & warmth? He's in his screened-lid tote, buried in fleece with his cuddle-buddy stuffies, half-on/half-off the heating pad set on low. He's on the heated end now, but when I woke up an hour ago, he'd crawled on top of all of his bedding. I've seen some stuff about humidity, so I'll search for that & see what answers I can find. His chest seems to be working a little harder than usual to breathe, although it doesn't seem to be as bad as some on here have described. I'm certain it's pneumonia, though, from the clicking & the lethargy. I don't recall him aspirating any formula & would've taken measures to clear his nose if I had, but I'm going to guess that's what caused it. He's not a runt--he's a fighter, hence the gladiator's name I gave him, so I'm hoping he'll live up to it & kick this illness in the butt!

Thanks for any advice.23

[Gardentoes11]

I put Ulysses on the warm end of his box, but just checked on him & he'd crawled to the not-on-the-heating pad end. He doesn't feel particularly warm to me. Not sure what this indicates. Usually he goes for the heating pad end, but this morning he was on top of his bedding exposed, & now he's avoiding the heat, if that tells any of you pneumonia experts anything about his condition. Hoping for some advice soon! I know y'all are busy, but I sure do appreciate your input.

[pappy1264]

Put the heating pad completely under the container, so he cannot move off for now. Not good when they are doing that. (Many times they do it because of fever, but they also do it to try to die. Not to be crude, just being honest.)

Need the dosage of baytril that you have. An only that or clavamox is used, generally for pneumonia.

[Gardentoes11]

OK, box is on heating pad now, completely. He stuck his head out from under the fleece, but allowed me to keep his body covered. Still hearing clicking, but it's faint. Still not very alert, but not totally unconscious, either.

[Gardentoes11]

Will check on strength of Baytril. I don't recall it being on the bottle, but I'll see what I can find. Be right back....

[SammysMom]

What is the strength of the baytril you have? We need that to help dose.

[Gardentoes11]

OK, Baytril I had from my rabbit doesn't give a strength. Generic Baytril (Enrofloxacin) that I got from a reptile website is 10%, and it just so happened to come with a packet of powdered probiotics! Package says it can be mixed with fluids or sprinkled on food, but I have no idea how much to use. Doesn't give any sort of strength or dosing instructions, but that'd be for reptiles anyway. Ideas?

[Gardentoes11]

The 2 drops of Baytril I gave him this morning were the rabbit kind. Forgot I had the new stuff that I ordered as a just-in-case. Whatever you guys tell me, I'll use the reptile kind since we're sure of it's concentration. Thanks for your help!

Oh, and I'm a direct kinda girl--don't sugar-coat or worry about my feelings! Just tell it like it is, so I can deal with whatever the situation may be. My feelings always recover sooner or later! Thanks, pappy, for your concern for them, though. Kind of you!

[Gardentoes11]

He's mouth-breathing now. Just ate 3 cc of formula & peed clear & pooped. Just so limp. Not looking good. Please.... Baytril 10%--how much & how often for a 90 g fox squirrel?

[Gardentoes11]

Crying here. He's getting worse, & I don't know how much Baytril to give or what to do to give him probiotics. 90 G fox squirrel, 5 wks. Please please reply, someone with dosing knowledge. Baytril 10%.

[Milo's Mom]

I've never heard of Baytril 10%. Did any other information come with it?

[Milo's Mom]

Okay, so if our normal Baytril is 2.27 (22.7) is Baytril 10% Baytril 100? We've got to know what we're dosing before we dose it.

Does anyone know?

[Gardentoes11]

Only other info says Recommended reptile dosage 10 mg/kg, .1cc per kg or .01cc per 100g of body weight. Add 0.1cc to 0.9cc distilled water to nebulize. Generic for Baytril 10% Enrofloxacin. Photos coming....

[Gardentoes11]

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[HRT4SQRLS]

Okay, so if our normal Baytril is 2.27 (22.7) is Baytril 10% Baytril 100? We've got to know what we're dosing before we dose it.

Does anyone know?
I think it does mean that Betsy.

262545

[HRT4SQRLS]

That's it ... photo #4 ... 100mg/ ml

[HRT4SQRLS]

Have you received dosing info in a PM?

[Milo's Mom]

Perfect. Thank you Patty.:thumbsup Can you send the dosing info, please? I have to feed my kids. Thanks!!!

[HRT4SQRLS]

OK

[Gardentoes11]

No, no PM's. Ulysses is still with me. Afraid he's too weak to eat/drink now, though.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I sent dosing information. I would give it STAT!

Don't worry about food. When the antibiotic kicks in, it usually works pretty fast and the appetite returns. Keep the baby warm. I would even hold the baby against my chest with the head up with the heating pad again him. Gravity will drain the fluids to the bottom of the lungs so that your baby can breath easier.

The dose that you gave this morning is already on board and should help. Prayers for your baby.

One other thing, Baytril has anti-inflammatory properties that will help your baby before the antimicrobial effects work.

[Gardentoes11]

My best friend is bringing me a nebulizer. She uses it for her son, filling it with albuterol. Would that be helpful for Ulysses, or should we just put water in it? I did get your private message with the Baytril dosing information. Thank you so much! Feeling helpless is the worst part of this!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, the nebulizer will help. As far as the albuterol, the opinions differ. One vet said yes... The other vet said no as it raises the heart rate so I'm not sure. Use your own judgement.

Maybe others can sound it. I would definitely do the mist though.

[Gardentoes11]

Well, Ulysses is still with me, but hanging on by a thread. It's going to be a long night, but well-spent fighting to preserve his precious life. Sure do love this sweet little foxy boy!

[HRT4SQRLS]

:grouphug Your efforts have been truly inspiring.
Come on Ulysses, you can do it.

[Gardentoes11]

My little warrior passed away last night at about 3:30, taking his last breath in my hands. I am devastated, although I did absolutely everything that could be done for him, & I know it's a common cause of death in baby squirrels. None of that soothes my aching heart, though. Had grown so accustomed to his sleepy presence, with me 24/7 for the last month. I just hope he's sitting on Jesus' knee, eating a pecan, & that he'll be waiting for me to play with him when we meet again. Wouldn't be heaven if he weren't there. I miss him desperately!

[mel_la_fee]

Hey there! I don't know if it's information you can use at this point, but I posted a few days ago for help with a baby with pneumonia. Mine is doing leagues better and has put on a ton on weight since it happened (he was originally ~18 grams lighter than his siblings), and I'm hardly an expert, but maybe it will be useful to you...

I had the same experience of having the baby off his feed the night before, but otherwise not seeming strange. At 5 am, he was largely unresponsive and clicking. It was so bad that when I picked him up he slumped to the side like he was in a coma. I thought he might die right then! I held him upright in my two hands and massaged his face and belly with my thumbs until he woke up about 30-45 seconds later. Even then he only opened his eyes and scarcely moved.

I couldn't get him to the vet until later in the morning, so I took a human antibiotic pill, crushed it, and added just the tiniest amount to his hydration solution. Probably not even 1/8th of a pill. This is generally not recommended, but I was afraid he would die otherwise. I then gave him as much hydration solution as he would take at 30 minute intervals. At first it was probably less than half a cc, as he ended up spilling most of it, but I continued getting as many drops into him as I could-while allowing his body time to process it.

When he was finally alert enough to take most of 1 cc of fluid, I stopped using the one with antibiotics because I didn't want to hurt his gastrointestinal system or liver with human medication. He was finally able to see a vet at 10:30 (first appointment they had available) so I ended up continuing this routine from 5am-10, by which point he was alert enough to drink almost 2cc of hydration/glucose solution. We took him to the vet, got the baytril and brought him home and tried to feed him diluted formula at the vet's recommendation. He wouldn't eat much, however, and by 6 pm he was slipping again and clearly very feverish. I could tell his body temp was high compared to his siblings when I picked him up, and he did the limp/immobile thing again- though it didn't take him as long to wake up from it.

Despite the vet saying he needed to eat, I reverted to the same routine I had that morning- giving him only hydration solution and doing it every half an hour. Now, despite knowing he had a fever, I did not completely remove the heat source. I felt that the second his fever dropped and there was no outside heat, he'd take a chill that would only stress his body further. Especially as he had been fairly sweaty from the fever all day and that would exasperate the chill (and no one wants a cold baby!). But sweating from a fever absolutely means dehydration- so I continued the half hour routine till midnight. Then I took a small nap and got back up at 1, then 3, then 5. At 6 he got his third dose of baytril.

Our vet had recommended .05 ml/cc twice a day, as he was just under 100 grams (about 94 actually). It is the 100mg injection form of liquid baytril, which could actually be what you got for your rabbit. Rabbits do not take many medications well, and I do see that the bottle has no markings on it. In any case, working with the type that you are sure of the dosage on is probably your best bet.

Throughout the next day we started offering diluted formula and by the next evening, he was willing to take regular formula (and actually seemed hungry). I have Fox Valley, but the kind I've been giving to him is the Esbilac puppy formula with Probiotics. I opted to use that one specifically because of the probiotics that are in the formula. The old Esbilac was no good for awhile, as the formula was changed and the company was bought out. However, all new Esbilac formula seems to be fine and as far as I know, only the probiotic version is available in stores now. This would spare you the trouble of trying to dose probiotics yourself, though I don't believe one can get TOO MUCH of them (especially when antibiotics are depleting them), so if you got the baby to the point of taking diluted formula, I imagine simply adding what you have into the mix would still be helpful.

Note that probiotics are living supplements- good bacteria that must be alive in order to be effective- so be sure that the product you use is well before its expiration date. Otherwise the bacteria may have died off, and will do no good to anyone.

Because we had work he had to go 4 hours between the first two feedings, but after I got home I checked on him every 2 hours. I didn't feed him formula every 2 hours, but I checked on him and gave him hydrating solution if he would take it. So it was basically an alternation every 2 hours between glucose solution and formula. You don't want to give a baby any mixture of pedialyte and formula (you probably knew that) and they can't process straight formula if they are dehydrated, so this was my way of splitting the difference. I was only giving about 1-2 ccs at a time. This is definitely not enough for a 90 or 100 gram baby, but at 2 hour intervals, their body should have enough time to process that small amount and you can feel safer in terms of what you are offering next.

I never tried to force him to take something unless he was showing any signs (even minor signs) of dehydration, at which point I pushed the nipple edge into his cheek to deliver a few drops of hydration solution, and then massaged his throat to make him swallow. By the third day, he wanted none of the hydrating solution and only wanted formula and we moved him into a regular feeding of just every 4 hours throughout the day and only checking on him twice at night. He has, of course, continued with the antibiotics. I kept him warm the whole time, in a quiet room, and kept him very hydrated with glucose solution above all.

This was my first time dealing with pneumonia so I may not have done things the way a more experienced person would have (my original post was asking for advice in this). Also, my baby was already about 7 weeks old, and I'm sure that makes a difference in terms of what the immune system is able to handle. What I can tell you is that I posted about his pneumonia on Monday and here it is Sunday, and he only weighs ~4 grams less than his next smallest sibling. Perhaps I have overfed him in my resolution to get him over the illness! In either case, checking frequently and maintaining warmth and hydration throughout the ordeal seemed to work wonders.

Hopefully your little one pulls through! Keep everyone posted!

[HRT4SQRLS]

My little warrior passed away last night at about 3:30, taking his last breath in my hands. I am devastated, although I did absolutely everything that could be done for him, & I know it's a common cause of death in baby squirrels. None of that soothes my aching heart, though. Had grown so accustomed to his sleepy presence, with me 24/7 for the last month. I just hope he's sitting on Jesus' knee, eating a pecan, & that he'll be waiting for me to play with him when we meet again. Wouldn't be heaven if he weren't there. I miss him desperately!

Gardentoes11, I don't know why but this lost baby has crushed me more than others. I am saddened by all that are lost but I sit here now with tears in my eyes as I type this. Ulysses was blessed to have you as you were blessed to have him.

As I picture him on Jesus lap, the tears flow even more. I am so sorry for your loss. Your compassion and the battle you waged for his life has touched me deeply. :grouphug

Rest in Peace Ulysses ~ I too hope to see you and my lost loves in heaven one day also. :sad :boohoo

[mel_la_fee]

So sorry I posted the advice when I did. I hadn't seen your update when I started writing. It was definitely not useful to you by then, and I apologize for posting information after it was already too late.

You know you did the very best you could for him, and it was not for nothing. He would have died cold and alone with no one caring for him if he had not come into your open arms. I am so sorry for your loss, but I am also glad he was with someone who cared so much about him. Be well take care. I am sure more babies will need your kind of love and support in the future :Love_Icon

[stepnstone]

My little warrior passed away last night at about 3:30, taking his last breath in my hands. I am devastated, although I did absolutely everything that could be done for him, & I know it's a common cause of death in baby squirrels. None of that soothes my aching heart, though. Had grown so accustomed to his sleepy presence, with me 24/7 for the last month. I just hope he's sitting on Jesus' knee, eating a pecan, & that he'll be waiting for me to play with him when we meet again. Wouldn't be heaven if he weren't there. I miss him desperately!

They truly are magical little creatures that take our hearts.
I'm so sorry... :grouphug