need help with Chester and Domino!

[pjjere]

We received 2 boys, Chester and Domino on August 4th. They were around 3 weeks old and weighed 45 grams each. They have been eating esbilac 2/1 and had been progressing well until about a week ago. BTW Domino- eyes open a couple of days ago and Chester- starting to open now. My last weight was 108 grams each. We have had intermittent issues with penis chewing (esp Domino- self inflicted) but both boys seem to be peeing okay.

The babies are eating 6 cc's every 4 hours and we are beginning to have some problems. Domino has had diarrhea for about a week now. At first, it was runny and yellow and at a point a few days ago we quit feeding him and hydrated only for 3 feedings or so. He had started to become lethargic and did not want to eat much anymore. The hydration perked him up pretty quick and he became more active and hungry so we started him back on the formula and now he is back up to 6 cc's per feeding.

The problem is his diarrhea is back but now it is black! He looks like he has been rolling in coal dust! The last feeding his poops had begun to form a little but are still tar black. He seems active and hungry and is gaining weight?! His penis is huge (from the suckling?) and he usually won't pee much when stimulated. He will usually run down my arm and pee and his urine looks good and clear.

Now to Chester: He has been healthy with perfect poops and normal urine but has suddenly lost interest in food! He is usually an eager eater but will barely drink one cc for the last 8 hours. He is not very active but as far as I can tell he looks good. He just wants to sleep. The only thing odd I notice is he appears to have a full belly when i am used to noticing his tummy looks smaller when I go to feed him. I would not say bloated as it is soft but it looks like it should after he has eaten a meal.

I was not sure if I should post this in emergency but the black runs have me worried. These are our first baby boys and man are they tough! :( I will post some pics soon when I wake them up next.

[pjjere]

Quick update. I am cautiously thinking Domino may be getting a little better. He is active and eating well and his poop last feeding was not quite as dark. It is still quite soft but not as runny as before. Now the bad news: Chester is lethargic and won't eat. He is crying occasionally and drags his back legs when he moves. He threw up a small amount of what looked like curdled formula a little while ago so I have gone out and bought a new can of esbilac and thrown away all the old stuff. BTW the date is still good on the old formula but i am concerned that both babies are having stomach issues. We are going to proceed cautiously with Chester and try to get some fluids in to him. Would homemade pedialyte be best or should we try just water? Please pray for these babies! I am at a loss as to what is going on... :(

[pjjere]

Also wanted to add that I mixed a small amount of plain yogurt in with the new formula I made.

[stepnstone]

Not familiar with your story so need to ask, are you feeding the powered Esbilac with the pre and pro-biotics?
If digesting appears to be one of the problems, I wouldn't be adding in yogurt.
The baby dragging back legs?? How is his breathing?
Homemade hydration is same as the Pedi with the exception it does not have the unnecessary
chemical flavorings and dyes in it.

[CritterMom]

Where do you store the Esbilac powder? Put the can in the freezer.

[pjjere]

Yes it is the esbilac powder with pre/probiotics. His breathing is normal when resting although as i said he threw up a little of what looked like curdled milk a couple of hours ago. He is resting now but occasionally wakes up and seems uncomfortable until we can get him back to sleep. There is no clicking or signs of aspiration so I don't think that is the problem. The main thing is he appears mildly bloated and is lethargic and does not want to eat or drink.

[pjjere]

Hi CritterMom, we store the esbilac in the fridge but can put in the freezer if that is better. I just opened a new can.

[stepnstone]

Babies are being kept warm?
You are feeding formula very warm and keeping warm throughout feeding yes?

[pjjere]

Babies are being kept warm?
You are feeding formula very warm and keeping warm throughout feeding yes?

yes on both counts

[CritterMom]

Hi CritterMom, we store the esbilac in the fridge but can put in the freezer if that is better. I just opened a new can.

Powder in freezer; reconstituted formula in fridge. :thumbsup

[pjjere]

okay. any suggestions on how to proceed? he is lethargic and won't take any hydration. just one drop at a time? I think we are losing him

[CritterMom]

okay. any suggestions on how to proceed? he is lethargic and won't take any hydration. just one drop at a time? I think we are losing him

Keep him warm and a drop at a time. :grouphug

[stepnstone]

Have any solid foods been put in with these babies?

[pjjere]

Have any solid foods been put in with these babies?

No. They are only 5 weeks old.

[pjjere]

He's gone. 12 hours ago he was an active, healthy baby and now he's dead . Wtf!!!!

[CritterMom]

I am so sorry. Poor little Chester. I am concerned about the tar black poops and the vomiting. It sounds like internal injuries of some kind. I suppose something could have happened before you got him - sometimes getting them going and stabilized also allows unknown injuries to progress.

:grouphug:grouphug

[pjjere]

The original finder found her dog with a dead baby in it's mouth and these 2 on the ground. I am shocked and hurt. I suppose it could be the esbilac. The date is good but we had kept it in the fridge. I would have thought if the esbilac was bad it would have manifested itself sooner. Poor Chester opened his eyes today... :(

[Nancy in New York]

I'm just seeing this now, and I am so sorry to read about Chester.:sadness
What kind of a container did/do you have them in?

The can that you started them off with, were you still using that when this problem
started?

With the new can, dump the ingredients out into a large bowl, and mix it up really really well. Not
that that is your problem, but it won't hurt.
I've do that with all my formula, Fox Valley,
and Esbilac.

This story is strange, and I hope we can come to some sort of closure for you. :sadness

Rest in Peace
Precious Chester 262309

[pjjere]

"The can that you started them off with, were you still using that when this problem
started?"

Yes, it was the same can. I mixed the new formula earlier today so Domino is now eating the new batch. I do mix the formula up before each batch as i am aware the ingredients settle. What baffles me is that they have both been eating the same thing and their weights have been identical. Now Domino seems to be improving and he is very active. His poops are looking much better although still a little too soft.

They have been in a cat carrier half on/half off a heating pad. The bedding is fleece and we change it out daily. (Actually the fleece is from the care package you sent for CC). Chester has actually seemed perfect (until last night) and Domino is the one we were concerned about because of his diarrhea. I can't believe how fast he went downhill. Towards the end he was vomiting more of what looked like curdled formula. Hopefully Domino will be okay... :(

[CritterMom]

I am not sure that the Esbilac was bad, but it would be the first thing I changed under the circumstances. Kept in the fridge since opening really should be enough - I always use the freezer out of an abundance of caution. I am just so sorry. The poor little guy.:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Not sure if you understood my question, or I don't understand your answer.

I'm not asking about making the formula ahead of time.

When you get a new can of Esbilac, do you dump it DRY into a large bowl and stir up?
I only ask because I had a problem with FV 20/50 a couple of years ago.
Toward the end of the bag, the formula was VERY gritty and stopped up the syringes.
I think all the dry ingredients were NOT
mixed well for some reason.:thinking

Now regardless of what formula I use, I dump it out immediately, and mix it up really well,
typically with a pastry blender first (Only for the Esbilac as it's clumpy)) and then a whisk,
which works really well on the DRY Fox Valley.

Again, I am so very sorry for your loss. I know how much you and your wife
love these little ones, and how conscientious you both are.
This was NOT your fault,
please know that. :hug

[pjjere]

Thank you Nancy. I did understand and what I meant was I shake the ingredients up in the can before mixing the formula. I think your idea is better as it would do a more thorough job of mixing everything.

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you Nancy. I did understand and what I meant was I shake the ingredients up in the can before mixing the formula. I think your idea is better as it would do a more thorough job of mixing everything.

Just curious, is the third ingredient on the can Dried Whey Protein?

I went on Amazon tonight to see what the ingredients are on the can without the banner, as that seems to be the one
that most people find.
Seems the one with the blue banner stating that it has probiotics is difficult to find.
These ingredients don't even mention Protein? :thinking

http://www.amazon.com/Esbilac%C2%AE-Powder-Milk-Replacer-Puppies/dp/B00068JVNI/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440374022&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Esbilac+powdered+puppy+formula


This was a question that someone asked because the ingredients weren't even listed!


how can I see the ingredient list?

A:
Ingredients:
Water, condensed skimmed milk, soybean oil, sodium caseinate, cream, calcium caseinate, egg yolks, L-methionine, L-arginine, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, lecithin, magnesium sulfate, potassium chloride, monopotassium phosphate, salt, tricalcium phosphate, carrageenan, dipotassium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, ascorbic acid, ferrous sulfate, potassium hydroxide, zinc sulfate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, maltodextrins, thiamine hydrochloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, manganese sulfate, vitamin D3 supplement, potassium citrate, potassium iodide, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, biotin. see less

[CritterMom]

Just curious, is the third ingredient on the can Dried Whey Protein?

I went on Amazon tonight to see what the ingredients are on the can without the banner, as that seems to be the one
that most people find.
Seems the one with the blue banner stating that it has probiotics is difficult to find.
These ingredients don't even mention Protein? :thinking

http://www.amazon.com/Esbilac%C2%AE-Powder-Milk-Replacer-Puppies/dp/B00068JVNI/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440374022&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Esbilac+powdered+puppy+formula


This was a question that someone asked because the ingredients weren't even listed!


how can I see the ingredient list?

A:
Ingredients:
Water, condensed skimmed milk, soybean oil, sodium caseinate, cream, calcium caseinate, egg yolks, L-methionine, L-arginine, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, lecithin, magnesium sulfate, potassium chloride, monopotassium phosphate, salt, tricalcium phosphate, carrageenan, dipotassium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, ascorbic acid, ferrous sulfate, potassium hydroxide, zinc sulfate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, maltodextrins, thiamine hydrochloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, manganese sulfate, vitamin D3 supplement, potassium citrate, potassium iodide, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, biotin. see less








Nancy, the problem is that Pet Ag never changed their "artwork." If you go the the company website, you will still see the OLD cans - like from 5 years ago - with the OLD ingredients list. Anyone selling it on Amazon or anywhere else is using the company artwork and info, so basically, none of the information on the stuff online is going to be correct because the manufacturer never bothered to update the art when they changed the formula...

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy, the problem is that Pet Ag never changed their "artwork." If you go the the company website, you will still see the OLD cans - like from 5 years ago - with the OLD ingredients list. Anyone selling it on Amazon or anywhere else is using the company artwork and info, so basically, none of the information on the stuff online is going to be correct because the manufacturer never bothered to update the art when they changed the formula...

Lynn I have bought on Amazon. That's where I got my Esbilac with the blue banner, and the correct ingredients.
(With a picture showing both the correct can, and the correct ingredients)
NOW, anywhere you go, it's difficult to find the Esbilac with the blue banner.
At least the "old" Esbilac contained whey protein.
The correct ingredient NOW should be Dried Whey Protein.
This one, in the link above, AND on their website, doesn't list any protein. :dono

Here's another link on Amazon, with the correct ingredients, but a different label.
When I click this on, it says that I purchased this product March 2, 2015. So this is the one
I purchased in March with the blue banner, but now the label is different. :dono

http://www.amazon.com/Esbilac%C2%AE-Powder-Milk-Replacer-Puppies/dp/B0002ASRZ8?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0002ASRZ8&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=55db164c48308e29988b2a52

[pjjere]

I looked at the old and new esbilac cans and they both look identical with the same ingredients. Both say "with prebiotics and probiotics" on the label and the third ingredient is dried whey protein concentrate. They were purchased at Petco.

[Spanky]

http://www.amazon.com/Esbilac%C2%AE-Powder-Milk-Replacer-Puppies/dp/B0002ASRZ8?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0002ASRZ8&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=55db164c48308e29988b2a52

Interestingly confusing how the 3rd (of the series of 5) pictures is a shot of one of the cans that does have the biotics "blue banner" . As if is was not difficult enough already to make sure folks have the correct formulation. :shakehead I went ahead and ordered a can and I will report what about what arrives. It was a good price and I have only have a partial can remaining... but I feel like I may be jinxing myself! :panic