Abscess treatment info

[SammysMom]

Okay, I have my girl Peggy who had a pin in her leg a month or so ago. Since the pin came out, she has had abscesses occurring in the site of the original incision. I have had her first on Baytril at the vet's recommendation, then on Clavamox at my decision, then on Clindimycin at a trusted rehabber's suggestion and now on clindimycin and Clavamox stacked. All of these treatments to no avail...:shakehead. I just brought her home from having the abscesses cleaned out AGAIN.
On Monday, when he cleaned them he suggested that the leg be amputated. Today, he suggested it again and explained that he feels there is something more going on in the leg. Perhaps it is a piece of bone that has died and is now causing these issues. I am not happy about creating a 3-legged squirrel so I asked him to send a sample out for a culture. I want to be certain that we are not trying to use ABs that are ineffective against whatever the bacteria is.
I am looking for suggestions... This little girl is special to me and to Ken, but we are absolutely not in the market for another NR. Sammy has put all four of his feet down firmly on this fact. :soapbox

[Milo's Mom]

Gayle, when I was fighting the major infection with MJ, the treatment I feel worked the best was her being on the Clavamox orally and putting the Baytril directly IN the wound/abscess. Note: this was Injectable Baytril 22.7, NOT Cipro diluted in water or otherwise.

Since the vet just opened the abscess again I would think now would be a great time to get the Baytril in there. Also, the Derma-Gel will prevent it from closing over so it will be able to heal from the inside out.

If the vet thinks it's a chip of bone might he be willing to do an x-ray.....I would think he should be able to see, no?

The other thing that is awesome on abscesses is Derma-Gel. I posted lots of info about it on Pat's (Chickenlegs) thread about Little Girl. (Baby Girl?)

[astra]

I have nothing to add...
HRT4SQRLS suggested clindimycin and clavamox for the little window boy with abscesses, and he was on clindimycin for the full course. And the abscesses were, of course, drained and cleaned as usual...
I hope the culture test will show what exactly is going on in there.
:grouphug

[Pnut832]

Okay, I have my girl Peggy who had a pin in her leg a month or so ago. Since the pin came out, she has had abscesses occurring in the site of the original incision. I have had her first on Baytril at the vet's recommendation, then on Clavamox at my decision, then on Clindimycin at a trusted rehabber's suggestion and now on clindimycin and Clavamox stacked. All of these treatments to no avail...:shakehead. I just brought her home from having the abscesses cleaned out AGAIN.
On Monday, when he cleaned them he suggested that the leg be amputated. Today, he suggested it again and explained that he feels there is something more going on in the leg. Perhaps it is a piece of bone that has died and is now causing these issues. I am not happy about creating a 3-legged squirrel so I asked him to send a sample out for a culture. I want to be certain that we are not trying to use ABs that are ineffective against whatever the bacteria is.
I am looking for suggestions... This little girl is special to me and to Ken, but we are absolutely not in the market for another NR. Sammy has put all four of his feet down firmly on this fact. :soapbox

I'm praying for you and your little Peggy!In my research on colloidal silver it is supposedly a great antibiotic internally & externally for humans& animals. One website is the silver edge, it's worth checking into

[Mommaluvy]

:grouphug

[SammysMom]

Thank-you all so much, especially MM! I will look at the other thread about Derma Gel as I am not familiar with it. Although the abscess was opened today, it is not a large opening and it does not stay open so I'm not sure I can actually get anything into it. Did you inject the baytril with a needle or syringe it into an opening? I'm not sure why the heck he didn't do an x-ray while he had her under for the abscess. He did one on the other baby I brought in without any question. :dono

[SammysMom]

I really hesitate to have surgery done without having the culture back yet. The culture will take a week and his usual surgery day is Tuesday. I think I will just take her back as she needs them cleaned out until the culture comes back.
How is the colloidal silver used? Topically?

[Pnut832]

I really hesitate to have surgery done without having the culture back yet. The culture will take a week and his usual surgery day is Tuesday. I think I will just take her back as she needs them cleaned out until the culture comes back.
How is the colloidal silver used? Topically?

Yes topically but can also be taken internally.

[Milo's Mom]

Gotta keep the abscess open or it'll keep abscessing. No needle, just a slip tip syringe. Push it in and mush it around a bit then wipe away any that runs back out. I diluted 50/50 with sterile saline ONCE because I was worried about it burning her. Vet told me not to dilute so I went full strength. I did it once a day and I used a Total Daily Dose per her weight.

I did a chlorhexidine flush, then the Baytril in the morning and in the evening I did just the chlorhex flush.

Isn't colloidal silver the OTC version of SSD?

[Chickenlegs]

MM was a lifesaver with the Derma Gel. That stuff is gooooood!

[Pnut832]

Gotta keep the abscess open or it'll keep abscessing. No needle, just a slip tip syringe. Push it in and mush it around a bit then wipe away any that runs back out. I diluted 50/50 with sterile saline ONCE because I was worried about it burning her. Vet told me not to dilute so I went full strength. I did it once a day and I used a Total Daily Dose per her weight.

I did a chlorhexidine flush, then the Baytril in the morning and in the evening I did just the chlorhex flush.

Isn't colloidal silver the OTC version of SSD?

I'm guessing it's just the silver without the sulphur. Just put some on my baby with a qtip. It says it's a very safe antibiotic internally also.
Is the ssd really safe for them if they lick? I was just nervous about it

[SQUIRRELSAREME]

When Tillie had 5 abscess I had her on azithtomycin and SMZ orally. I flushed her with baytril and then I crushed up one pill of metro mixed it with triple antibiotic cream and packed into the opening for one week then the next week I mixed silversulfdine cream with insulin and packed into the opening. This work really well for her. Hope this helps.

[SammysMom]

My little girl Peggy had a pin put in her leg over a month ago due to a broken femur. After just over 2 weeks, either she or her cagemate removed it. It was showing signs of infection so off we went to the vet. It has been an uphill battle with it that is still not over. However, I wanted to share her story with others as it is interesting. My vet is ALWAYS sure that SMZ is the best AB for a squirrel. So, against my better judgement I started with that after the leg was cleaned out at the vet. The result was that she developed abscesses in her leg. Finally, the vet agreed that we needed something different. He said Baytril. I told him that my understanding was that Clavamox was better for abscesses and he disagreed. Again, I let him take the lead since the whole leg pinning was his idea. Of course, the abscesses returned over the weekend while the vet was closed. I mixed up my clavamox and added it to the mix. We returned to the vet on Monday and he cleaned out the mess again. He was not hopeful and suggested that euthanizing her might be the best plan. I asked for more time and he agreed. We went on like this for a week or so having to have abscesses cleaned out every few days. It was just not getting better so the vet suggested (strongly :eek) amputation. Again I asked for more time and to try Clavamox stacked with Clindamycin and he reluctantly agreed all the while telling me that it was likely from a piece of dead bone that the body was trying to expel causing the infection and it would never get better. HRT4SQRLS had suggested the AB combo as what was best for bone and soft tissue infection. I am so grateful to her for this information! Today when I brought her in to have the abscess drained, I dropped her off and when I went back to pick her up, the vet asked to speak to me. I was afraid that this was yet another attempt to get me to either amputate or have her euthanized. I could not have been more wrong! He wanted to tell me that for the first time in almost 2 months, he saw improvement. He wanted me to know that he was glad that I had asked for more time for her. He told me he was shocked at the fact that she was getting better. I sat there trying not to cry with relief and expressing my overwhelming gratitude to him for being willing to first pin her leg (hers was the second one in a one week time for me) and then for allowing me to guide him in her recovery by using the wonderful information that TSB and its members has to offer. I have to say that there is little more awesome for me as a rehabber than a vet who is willing to learn. I am attaching a picture of Peggy sitting up eating this morning before we went to the vet. I showed it to him and he was so pleased to see it. I told him it was because of him that she was able to do it and that I really was so very happy to have him.
This is long-winded, but I did want to share it as we do need to remember that Baytril is good for some things, but truly, Clindamycin seems to have been what really did it here. There is no doubt that it was bone infection and NOTHING touched it until Clin was added to the Clav. The vet did NOT want to use this combo because of GI issues. For the record, the Baytril/Clav combo was far worse for her tummy. There is almost no noticeable issue from this combo. The other thing to remember is that it can take over a month on the meds to actually clear the infection, but it IS possible. Sweet Peggy is proof of this fact. Maybe her month of hell can save another little one from having to bear it.

[Shewhosweptforest]

:clap Well done SammysMom :bowdown and same goes for the Doc:Love_Icon I too, really love the fact that he listened to your advice and that he was compassionate enough to give Peggy a chance :great He's definitely a keeper...and he was willing to acknowledge and thank you :blowkiss

I'm glad little Peggy is recovering.. I hope it continues...and :nono tell those babies "no practicing surgery until they're older!" :grin3

Oh and can I just say..as we all know..but still worth repeating :bowdown isn't HRT4SQRLS amazing...I loved meeting her as a person...she's wonderful :Love_Icon but what an asset to our board...her scientific "brains" are phenomenal :bowdown:clap

I love when things work out sooo well :Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

Gayle this is such great news, and very valuable information in its entirety. We can actually follow your entire frustrating experience right up to the present and learn so much from this chain of events.

I remember when that UK vet wrote me about clindamycin, and I was almost afraid to suggest it because of WMB's warning against its use in rodents. Now I wish I'd known about it years ago, when I lost a sweet little 8-wk old to a cheek abcess after weeks of Baytril and SMZ did nothing to help him. Bless you and your vet for being proactive and dedicated to trying whatever you had until something worked! :bowdown

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you for sharing little Peggy's story Gayle.
I know how hard you have fought for her, and it has paid off.
You just have to love and respect a vet that will take what a "lay" person
suggests and give it a try. I imagine this has opened up a whole new thought process
for him when dealing with abscesses. He definitely is a keeper.
And how lucky are we, here at TSB, to have HRT4SQRLS to share her opinions and
thoughts so intelligently and clearly written so we can all understand.
She is a treasure for sure! :hug

[SammysMom]

One of the best parts of the leg was also that he kept telling me the leg was not healed from the break and would never be stable. Today he felt what I hesitantly thought I was feeling and seeing. Her leg is stable and she is using it like a champ.
We are so lucky to have Patti and so many others who shared their information about the treatment of abscesses. Earlier in this thread, MM also gave good information about treating them. I think we were already getting to the other side of it when I posted and she responded, but that is also good info.
Another thing that the vet explained to me was that it isn't possible with most abscesses on rodent to put in a drain to keep it from sealing and refilling. This is because what is in the abscess is more of a solid, cottage cheese consistency than a liquid that can be wicked away like it can be in a cat. All in all, this was a learning experience for both the vet and me. I am so happy to be able to share it here so others can benefit along with us.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Gayle, I'm so happy that Peggy is improving. This is great news. :great
I think your post would make an excellent addition to the 'Abscess Sticky'. I had hoped that others would share their successes and failures regarding treating abscesses but so far there have been very few posts added to the thread. Treatment failures are just as important as successes.

If we can get more posts like this added to the sticky it will serve as a resource for others that are dealing with a similar issue.

Thanks for fighting for Peggy. Euthanizing or amputating certainly would have been the easier option but your perseverance hopefully will give her freedom and life in the trees which is by far, the BEST option. :grin2

[Milo's Mom]

If you use Derma-Gel in an abscess it is possible to use a drain as the Derma-Gel keeps the thick pus as a liquid. I've seen people do it.

Glad your vet is willing to listen and consider other treatments; mine is too and I love him even more for it.

Did you ever get the culture back? What did it say?

[SammysMom]

Geez! How did i forget the culture results?!! Staph, strep and ecoli. He said all of them were very weak, likely from the ab treatments. Thsnk you for the reminder. I will definitely speak to him about derma gel.:thumbsup

[island rehabber]

Gayle I'm going to put a copy of this thread into the newly created "Abcesses" section of the Special Ailments Forum. First, I have to create that section....then I'll put this thread there. :grin2

EDIT: All done -- that was easier than I thought. :)

[Mommaluvy]

Wow.. So she is finally healing from the abscess?

How does the ecoli get in there? My little girl that died had ecoli and staph IN the pus

[SammysMom]

It seems that ecoli is more common than I ever thought it was. The vet was not at all surprised by it. Boo Kitty also had it in the infection of his paws. They have absolutely no contact though and the vet assured me that one likely had nothing to do with the other.

[Lucy's Luck]

Have you tried natural remedies? Also, where do you live? I can't find a vet to help my squirrel. I live in Minnesota.



Okay, I have my girl Peggy who had a pin in her leg a month or so ago. Since the pin came out, she has had abscesses occurring in the site of the original incision. I have had her first on Baytril at the vet's recommendation, then on Clavamox at my decision, then on Clindimycin at a trusted rehabber's suggestion and now on clindimycin and Clavamox stacked. All of these treatments to no avail...:shakehead. I just brought her home from having the abscesses cleaned out AGAIN.
On Monday, when he cleaned them he suggested that the leg be amputated. Today, he suggested it again and explained that he feels there is something more going on in the leg. Perhaps it is a piece of bone that has died and is now causing these issues. I am not happy about creating a 3-legged squirrel so I asked him to send a sample out for a culture. I want to be certain that we are not trying to use ABs that are ineffective against whatever the bacteria is.
I am looking for suggestions... This little girl is special to me and to Ken, but we are absolutely not in the market for another NR. Sammy has put all four of his feet down firmly on this fact. :soapbox

[Diggie's Friend]

Not a vet tech, yet these sources may have applications.

Pycnogenol?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28448268

Over 100 studies over 40 years have been done with Pycnogenol, with clear efficatious results over standard sources of treatment.

It kills salmonella, E. coli bacteria, along withother forms of bad bacteria.

It is available in powder and in liquid also.

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-Natures-Antioxidant/dp/B00142E92I/ref=sr_1_17_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1503709026&sr=8-17&keywords=Pycnogenol

http://organika.com/product/antioxidant/pycnogenol-liquid/

http://abc.herbalgram.org/site/DocServer/Pycnog_FullMono120809_LOW.pdf?docID=1741


Colloidal Silver?


Abrasions, Cuts and Wounds - Disinfect and Speed Healing
• •Apply Colloidal Silver directly to the wound and if you are applying a dressing (wrap or bandage) apply a little Colloidal Silver to the dressing as well;
•As Colloidal Silver will not react with other medications it can be used with another medication.


A homeopathic named "gunpowder", not real gunpowder, is used to open and drain abcesses.

[Diggie's Friend]

With Pycnogenol, the research notes the dosages for various issues that were used orally were from 1 mg. to 4 mg powdered extract, this equates in a liquid oral to (0.1 to 0.4) ml by syringe.

Pycnogenol oral was found to support mineralization of bone. it also was found to work much like aspirin without the negative side effects aspirin is known to cause, as well as exceeding it in efficacy for pain.

http://abc.herbalgram.org/site/DocServer/Pycnog_FullMono120809_LOW.pdf?docID=1741

Pre-clinical Toxicology


The toxicity of Pycnogenol is regarded as very low. The acute toxicity is low after oral administration in mice, rats, and guinea pigs.68 The representative LD50 values are 2.3, 4.2, and 2.0 g/kg,respectively.68 In chronic toxicity tests, oral application of up to 2000 mg/kg/ day in rats did not produce clinically meaningful changes in blood status, body weight, or food consumption. Also, the rats exhibited normal behavior.68 The level of mutagenicity of Pycnogenol was tested with the Ames test, the micronucleus assay in mouse bone marrow cells in vivo, and with the chromosome aberration assay in human lymphocytes in vitro.68 The results suggest that Pycnogenol is non-mutagenic.68

[Diggie's Friend]

Collodial silver doesn't present an issue in the digestive tract when using it topically on a wound; yet when when given orally it could present a problem by destroying the good gut bacteria along with the bad. Since 80 percent of the immune system in mammals is found in the intestinal tract, this isn't what you want to occur while fighting an infection. Topically this source may be a good option.

[SammysMom]

Treatment of abscesses requires medicine Do you have a squirrel with an abscess?

[island rehabber]

Have you tried natural remedies? Also, where do you live? I can't find a vet to help my squirrel. I live in Minnesota.




Lucy's Luck, you've responded to an old thread but if your squirrel needs help this should be in the Emergency, Help Needed section. I will look and see who we have in Minnesota.....can't think of anyone offhand, though :( In the meantime, Diggies Friend has posted a number of natural remedies for you to try if you're so inclined.

[Diggie's Friend]

I can recommend "Wildwoods Wildlife Rehabiliation" in northern Minnesota; for though not a veterinary, my friend, who knows them personally, and has supported them, tells me they are knowledgeable and humane. There is also another rehabbing group further south.

If you happen to be located in this region, perhaps they can recommend a vet to you? Be aware that since this isn't a legal State to have these animals in one's personal possesion, save for the professionals licensed to do so, not all groups or vets may support those that are brought to them for care for may return them to their first caregiver, or regard their wishes for the animal.