Maggot help!

[Mommaluvy]

Capstar given
Flea come not doing enough any other ideas removing eggs

[SammysMom]

Cornstarch and a soft toothbrush can help, but where on the baby are they?

[Mommaluvy]

Legs,
Back,
Tail,
Ears,
Under layers of skin and in the muscle,
And in degloved wound on abdomen.

[SammysMom]

Have you flushed with Capstar?

[UDoWhat]

You just have to keep combing the disgusting things out of the fur. I have done it for an hour sometimes. The capstar should begin to kill them. The eggs need to be combed out. Gosh I hate maggots! :mad: I just saw SM post ...Yes also flush with Capstar.

[Mommaluvy]

Yes soaked him in capstar for 10 minutes.
Maggots seem to be fleeing from him but the eggs are in the millions!

[Milo's Mom]

Cornstarch the living bejesus out of them. They will begin to hatch as soon as they have enough humidity/moisture.

[Mommaluvy]

how often should I flush? And am I flushing to kill or remove?
Do doctors stich degovleing wounds or is that something we have to do?

[UDoWhat]

Is there a flap of viable skin tissue.? A vet could do something called replantation. Mostly they can not stitch degloving wounds. It will have to be treated /flushed and cleaned with a weak saline solution. Dry really well. After dried you need to apply a topical antibiotic and cover the wound with some kind of of nonstick bandage. Then start Baytril. Also please give asap Metacam or infant ibuprofen for pain. This is a terribly painful injury. The bandage should be changed daily.

PS Cover only after all maggots are removed.

[Mommaluvy]

There is a flap of skin in his armpit and across his abdomen
Maggots are In the pockets of skin there are a tons that I can't get too259140

[Mommaluvy]

Would medcam or ibuprofen

[UDoWhat]

I do not know what the vet might want to do with this flap of skin.. It might close itself. The capstar should take care of the ones that are not eggs. Give me a weight and I will pm you dose for Metacam or ibuprofen. Metacam is once a day. Ibuprofen is every 4 hours. Let me know if you need dosing.

[Mommaluvy]

Ok.. Thanks for putting up with me. I am taking a break. And have him resting on heat for ten minutes so I can pee etc ....and hydrated.

. Been working for two plus hours .. He is being most cooperative .. Took his oral cap star at about three pm ... But I had trouble getting it to dissolve well... So I just kept hydrating him... In between flushes and baths. I soaked him in cap star water for about ten minutes from the armpit down...

Some of the maggots are in places I can't reach .. Like in between layers of skin... There is also something I can't tell what it is.. Looks like grey mangled flesh- hair - maggot mix .

I am not sure what to do with that. I have 90% of the eggs off him. May have missed a few but I am sure we will be combing and dipping and flushing more over the next few days.

My kids were doing the typing .

So ... I have not named or weighed him yet.

[Mommaluvy]

He is going to need antibiotics too...

Should I use injectable baytril or oral cipro?

And if I never see another maggot....

[UDoWhat]

I have had to go in and out this afternoon so I am sorry for the spotty communication too. Yes on the antibiotic. I looked at the notes I had on a de-gloved injuries and the Vet said Baytril but I suppose Cipro is fine. You can give injectable Baytril by mouth but you must dilute it with some flavor. It tastes terrible. If you inject it also must be diluted with a sterile solution by 1.5x to 2x the injectable dose. If not diluted it will burn the skin so bad the fur will never grow in and it will look like burned tissue.
You may want to PM and ask HRT4SQRL which she would recommend for the antibiotic. But the little one will most definitely need an antibiotic.
I will check back in later. Wise to take a break. Maggots are the worst!!!!:madd:madd

[Mommaluvy]

I do not know what the vet might want to do with this flap of skin.. It might close itself. The capstar should take care of the ones that are not eggs. Give me a weight and I will pm you dose for Metacam or ibuprofen. Metacam is once a day. Ibuprofen is every 4 hours. Let me know if you need dosing.

Ok...

He is 97 grams..

Most maggots that I can see but not tweezer out have stopped moving.

So .. Which baytril

ENRO FLOX INJ = 22.7 mg per ml ( my vet did not tell me to dilute... Maybe it's already diluted??)

Cipro 250 mg pills

Metacam is .5mg/ml

And I can't find my infant ipb

Just did another comb through and flushed wounds again with capstar

I have neosporin also ... But I am not sure I have anything to cover that wound with bandage wise... It's his whole abdomen..in length all the way to his anus.. He is luck to still have penis attached... But he may be nut less ..... But you tell me what to get and I'll buy it. And should I cover it when there are still visible maggots..
Vet opens in the am... I may run him up there ...

I am not trained in wounds so talk to me like a newby !

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

That wound looks pretty nasty. How is he acting? A little late, but tape helps with fly eggs. Just stick it to them and take it off really quick so it doesn't get all stuck to their fur. The clear scotch tape that isn't super sticky works well at getting off eggs but not sticking to the squirrel too bad. Forceps (tweezers) for the maggots. I've never had luck with capstar, but it's worth a shot. Also, make sure to defly egg and demaggot them outside or you'll have a bunch of baby flies in your house in a week or so, which is never fun! If he has a viable skin flap left, the best thing to do is clean it up as good as you can (chlorohexidine or betadine is best to use) and get him to the vet in the AM and hopefully it can be debrided and sutured.

[UDoWhat]

I think that SRBT would know about the Baytril but I am guessing that if it is in the original vial and is clear it has not been diluted. I would use the Baytril. Are you going to inject or give by mouth? No matter how you give it it definitely needs to be diluted. If by mouth dilute with some sweet something like syrup or honey or even juice. If by injection you will need to dilute with a sterile solution. CVS has sterile water. My vet always has me dilute for injections too.
I suppose if maggots are visible you should not cover. Not sure? Could you wrap loosely with a nonstick gauze. A drug store would have that. You could secure with surgical tape on the outside.
BTW you do not sound like a newbie. You are doing great. Do you need dosing on MetaCam or Baytril? I will send in a PM if you do.

[Mommaluvy]

I think that SRBT would know about the Baytril but I am guessing that if it is in the original vial and is clear it has not been diluted. I would use the Baytril. Are you going to inject or give by mouth? No matter how you give it it definitely needs to be diluted. If by mouth dilute with some sweet something like syrup or honey or even juice. If by injection you will need to dilute with a sterile solution. CVS has sterile water. My vet always has me dilute for injections too.
I suppose if maggots are visible you should not cover. Not sure? Could you wrap loosely with a nonstick gauze. A drug store would have that. You could secure with surgical tape on the outside.
BTW you do not sound like a newbie. You are doing great. Do you need dosing on MetaCam or Baytril? I will send in a PM if you do.

No not original vial.. He put it in a blood vac tube.

I did find gauze and vet tape :) I could do a loose wrap. I don't know how to say it about the visible maggots.. Think of them like a pimple with a tiny layer of skin overcome of them.. I would have to prick them open.

And yes SR great idea.. I do not feel bad about taking him outside to do that now... Permit holder said get them off before stabilizing etc.. So I did . And that's about all. I guess she feels he is toast.

He is curled up on the cold side of the tank at present, but he is conscious when I mess with him and during the last go round he hollered for momma and tried to bite my glove.

He did take his hydration well by mouth. Very eager for that.. So I am going to start transitioning him .

[UDoWhat]

Thanks Gayle. Trysh got the message to me. :thumbsup
I will be watching more closely to this thread ML

[UDoWhat]

I am not thinking it is diluted. As I said you can give injectable by mouth. Put it in something sweet. I think the maggots should die with the oral dosing of Capstar. It kills internal and external maggots. They are terrible and need to get out from under the skin but I do not know how to get them from under the layer of skin you describe. Maybe the Capstar has already killed them. Any suggestions anyone?? Also be sure to check all openings eyes, nose, anus, penis, every opening. Antibiotics help the body deal with the dead maggots. So start Baytril now. Change the bedding frequently. I just read a way to tell if the maggots are in the GI tract is that the anus is slightly open. Hope this helps.

[Mommaluvy]

Ok i gave him the baytil and metcam.

I texted doc about trying to get seen soon.

Maggots appear dead even under the skin. I hope i got all eggs.

All orifices look good. Pee and poop has been seen.

Maggots were small yet so ..hopefully we got them quick enough.

Wound looks really angry red now though.

Vet jist texted me with the same baytril dose but a higher metcam dose.. How strange.

[Chickenlegs]

Just checking on your little guy. Had no idea he was SO little! You are his angel.

[Mommaluvy]

Yeah he made it through the night.. Let's see what the day brings. Hopefully he won't hold a grudge about all that spraying an icky medicine etc he got yesterday. ( and wil repeat today.

He was breathing ... I have not disturbed him yet but am on my way to do that now.

Quick back story.. Gentlemen notched him trying to climb an oak tree Friday evening where there is a nest really really high.

Next morning found what he assumed to be same little guy curled up and laying in the veg garden covered in flies.

He scooped him up and started calling around. My coonie friend got the call and passed it to me cause she only does RVS. It's a deal we got going.

[Mommaluvy]

Took some fluids. No new maggots seen...

[UDoWhat]

Ok i gave him the baytil and metcam.

I texted doc about trying to get seen soon.

Maggots appear dead even under the skin. I hope i got all eggs.

All orifices look good. Pee and poop has been seen.

Maggots were small yet so ..hopefully we got them quick enough.

Wound looks really angry red now though.

Vet jist texted me with the same baytril dose but a higher metcam dose.. How strange.

I thought about this baby all night. So glad he made it through the night. :Love_Icon
I think there is a range on the Metacam for mammal dosing. So not so surprising that your Vet went with higher dose due to the severity of this injury. I would imagine your vet will give him something much stronger once he sees him. I would put a topical antibiotic on the wound and wait to see what the Vet says.
Poor sweet baby. You did great with him. :Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

:bowdown Mommaluvy you are a Saint :Love_Icon This poor, poor baby :sadness I'm praying hard he pulls through ....he's a tough lil guy to have survived this long :Love_Icon That wound sounds like one I saw when I worked for a vet....the finder said a cat jumped after the squirrel running up the tree...and it's claws just degloved the skin right off.....I wish I remembered more...but that's like 35 years ago :eek it was worse also....it was off the back too. :dono so it's good you're doing antibiotics too, just in case the degloving wound is from an initial wound...not from the maggot infestation :yuck just remember, this lil guy as gotten such relief from you :Love_Icon I'm sure he'll forgive the yucky meds :Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

Tyke2015 gets surgery in the am... Sure hope I get more donations LOL the hubby is gonna kill me lol.

No new pain meds at present. ( I did not give full metcam dose .. Vets was 2x higher than what was sent and WMB)

I did slather it with neosporin last night. Going to do again.. He was nice for the doctor .. No nibbles.

They are gonna remove the dead tissue and see... He got very lucky that his penis and gonads are still intact.

Would is nasty but superficial. He is up and active a little after more subQ . He got to where he was refusing oral .. But appears hungry now.


SHEWHOSWEPT.. Yes .. It's bite inflicted. A wound in the front armpit and the one in each leg armpit.. Defiantly the canine teeth of a predator or talons.
So send your squee prayers for healing :)

[Shewhosweptforest]

Oh poor baby....but lucky to find you :Love_Icon PM me your PayPal or address.....I'll send you a small donation:thumbsup I'm still recovering from Nougie's surgery :eek but hey, it all adds up and I want to help this little fighter :grin3Tyke :Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

Awe thank you .. But I get a hefty discount. So it's not to bad. Estimate was under 200 .. And she only charged me 20 for the visit today. :great so hang on to it and save it for the future.

Should I retreat with oral capstar? I don't see anything but am terrified that I missed an egg .


Here is what it all looks like today 259218259219259220

[SammysMom]

God help you and him both, Stephanie! Oh my word does that have to hurt! This might be a case for silvadene/insullin combination. I will try to look up the ratios and any other information I can find on it. If memory serves, Jackie used it on one whose whole head was degloved.

[Mommaluvy]

God help you and him both, Stephanie! Oh my word does that have to hurt! This might be a case for silvadene/insullin combination. I will try to look up the ratios and any other information I can find on it. If memory serves, Jackie used it on one whose whole head was degloved.

I don't have either medication :(

There are times he shakes .. I believe it's pain . Poor kid

[UDoWhat]

[QUOTE=Mommaluvy;1104282]

Should I retreat with oral capstar? I don't see anything but am terrified that I missed an egg .

QUOTE)

I have always been told to treat again in 24 hours and I always do to prevent reinfestation. It can be dosed at 1x per day. I think I would at least oral dose again. This little one and you have been so strong. I just hurt looking at the sweet little guy. I would keep the topical antibiotic on it or whatever else has been suggested to you to keep this little sweet:Love_Icon comfortable. Also I would keep him on the Metacam. I think that is just 1x per day. Keep us posted. We all can learn so much from these experiences. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

[QUOTE=Mommaluvy;1104282]

Should I retreat with oral capstar? I don't see anything but am terrified that I missed an egg .

QUOTE)

I have always been told to treat again in 24 hours and I always do to prevent reinfestation. It can be dosed at 1x per day. I think I would at least oral dose again. This little one and you have been so strong. I just hurt looking at the sweet little guy. I would keep the topical antibiotic on it or whatever else has been suggested to you to keep this little sweet:Love_Icon comfortable. Also I would keep him on the Metacam. I think that is just 1x per day. Keep us posted. We all can learn so much from these experiences. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

Will do.. All the above. And thanks for the squirrel prayers and support.

Vet also said do all the above ( forgot to ask about the capstar) FWIW. She also said its better to wait a few days .. Just a few.. Todo the surgery as they can see the dead tissue better.. As it gives it time to die.. And that if done to soon they may accidentally leave some cause it looked alive...

She also said the maggots usually leave a clean wound cause they eat the dead stuff.. While they are a bad and deadly thing.. It usually does not have a lot to get infected.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Wow, that looks angry :sadness I'm just in awe of what these little ones go through and survive :shakehead I mean this injury had to have been done a few days ago....to have that maggot infestation...but little Tyke hung in there:Love_Icon I'm also amazed that the man that found him...picked him up covered in flies :clap so many people would have walked away..and convinced themselves he was already dead....that finder deserves a medal :great

I'm glad you have a vet that works with you....that's a blessing....my vet charged $379 to take Nougie's tail of, and $119 to remove the stitches :eek I felt indignant, I use to work for a wildlife vet many years ago...heck I should have taken the stitches out myself.....but anyway, I'm just thankful to have a vet who will treat squirrels for me :dono

I'm keeping both you and Tyke in my prayers :grouphug

Oh and I would treat with capstar again....for the crawlies you might not see :yuck

[Shewhosweptforest]

[QUOTE=UDoWhat;1104286]

Will do.. All the above. And thanks for the squirrel prayers and support.

Vet also said do all the above ( forgot to ask about the capstar) FWIW. She also said its better to wait a few days .. Just a few.. Todo the surgery as they can see the dead tissue better.. As it gives it time to die.. And that if done to soon they may accidentally leave some cause it looked alive...

She also said the maggots usually leave a clean wound cause they eat the dead stuff.. While they are a bad and deadly thing.. It usually does not have a lot to get infected.

Well, I know you've seen where even now they will use maggots to debride a wound that's in a difficult spot to do the conventional way :eek I just can't imagine knowing they were under my bandage eating away :yuck

[Mommaluvy]

[QUOTE=Mommaluvy;1104288]

Well, I know you've seen where even now they will use maggots to debride a wound that's in a difficult spot to do the conventional way :eek I just can't imagine knowing they were under my bandage eating away :yuck

True.. But those are supposedly a different type of maggot that only eats dead stuff. Gerrrooos though.


I am so nervous for him..

[Shewhosweptforest]

I'm nervous for you both...it's so hard to watch and hope....I do believe he's got a fighting chance....he's such a little survivor to start with...and now he's got you in his corner:thumbsup :Love_Icon Sending you both :Love_Icon :hug

[redwuff]

Holding Tyke in my prayers for his surgery today. Hope he comes through with shining colors. Good job Mommluvey

[TubeDriver]

Wonderful job caring for this terribly injured little squirrel! :bowdown :clap


I hope he makes it, he is a fighter and you are his hero! :w00t

[Mommaluvy]

Well he is with Dr. Meakin... They will call me when he can come home

:klunk

[Shewhosweptforest]

Fingers, toes, eyes :thinking everything crossed and sending prayers :bowdown :Love_Icon

[UDoWhat]

Praying for you both. Please let us know as soon as you know anything. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

Tick tock:tap going to have to call.. Cause they told me I would probably be picking him up around 4 .....

[UDoWhat]

No kidding.... time is wasting here. We need to know what is up !! :poke

[Mommaluvy]

Ok he is home 4:45

He looks like Franken- squirrel poor kid.

Now his penis is too far to the other side. LOL I am sure the lady squeeze won't care.. He has function of his leg but the skin is real tight.... But he has to feel better than he did.

Vet tech was very discouraging.. "Don't be surprised if he doesn't make it " kinda thing... And wanted me to feed him ASAP as he was so emaciated. He did come home and eat 6 cc of half Fv and water.. We were still transitioning. And I could not feed him this am pre surgery. He is still getting used to the nipple and I don't think he had an appetite much till last night... So shaken... But he has been getting subQ fluids LRS from me and the vet.. So.. I dunno.. I fell bad about his weight now but better underfed than dead right? Gosh I have not even hardly had him 48 hours.. I am just too sensitive to people I guess LOL..

Stitches out in 14 days.. Recheck in 7

Wants him off baytril in a few more days.. and on SMZ for some reason..... Not sure what I am going to do with that.

No more metc am after tonight . That I could see. Liver and kidney etc.. I was not giving him the vets full dose of that... I did give the insanely high baytril ... Since infection was sooooo possible. And was it cat, dog or hawk/owl? I am actually suspecting bird of prey... Due to the wounds...

Now.. He has stitches from pit to pit.. Any ideas on keeping him from messin with them? Including penis area... So.. Gotta keep it dry too.. Body wrap might not work...

[Mommaluvy]

Before
259335

After
259336

He has stitches from my gray gloved thumb down the length of his body to his anus practically
And more in his opposite upper arm pit.

[SammysMom]

Oh man! It looks so much better!:thumbsup

[CritterMom]

Do you have any tramadol? The thought of him being without any pain meds makes me ill.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Do you have any tramadol? The thought of him being without any pain meds makes me ill.

Me too! :sadness

He does look better:Love_Icon I love lil Frankinsquee :Love_Icon

:nono Don't you feel bad....this little Manie is here and not eaten alive by maggots cuz of you:great the vet tech sounds like a jerk...and I really like your vet....I think some would have insisted on euthanizing ....but Tyke has the spirit..plus more to fight and even better he has you already head over heels for him....along with the rest of us:grouphug

[UDoWhat]

I am really curious as to why your Vet would take this baby off of Metacam. Unless they are worried about the emaciation factor and possibly the kidney being compromised with the Baytril and the NSAIDS. There are other drugs that can safely be used for pain. As CritterMom said Tramadol being one and possibly Buprenex. My Vets are big into pain management and believe that pain can cause too much stress and will delay healing. I usually use Buprenex for these terribly painful degloving injuries. It is 30x as potent as morphine. Can you ask your Vet for pain meds? They may have a reason for not giving them but it would be good for them to share that reason with you so you can learn and understand their reasons. I do not know the reason for the switch to SMZ maybe better soft tissue healing drug but the reason for that needs to be shared with you too. It really helps you to learn when the Vet communicates with you. Maybe you could ask these questions so you will know for the next time. I don't always think of the questions at the Vet so I call them and ask.
Poor baby boy:Love_Icon .. Like you, I think it was a hawk attack. How on earth did this little one get away? Bless you both. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

Just take it one day at a time little guy!:hug

[Chickenlegs]

Lurking here. Would your vet give you Tramadol? If not infant Ibuprofen could give him relief. I bet he'll be feeling better in a day or two. That baby has been through SO much and still fighting. And a loving mama has been fighting right along with him :Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

I have tramadol and rimidyil(sp) and can grab IBProphen if needed.

I did ask about that and was told that meta am had a liver and kidney risk with long term use .


And I will ask about the baytril more insistently. I was told to start the SMZ while still on the baytril and to take off the baytril when he displays "feeling better" . ( Which they usually tell you NOt to do)

His poo is still black not tons of it .... But more than I would expect from a skinny guy . He has been pooping al along.

[UDoWhat]

So glad he is better. Tramadol and NSAIDs can be used safely together if you think he needs both. I have not used the other drug but some do. I have heard it also has risks with kidney issues but do not know this for sure. ????? I would go with the Tramadol.

I will check back with you in a hour when I get to work.

So so happy he is holding on. :blowkiss

[Mommaluvy]

He is still pretty puny feeling.. But when when I woke him his eyes looked wider and nice and shiny.

Stitches look good.

Took part of his morning formula eagerly... The rest went drop by drop. He is still getting used to the nipple though. Sub qd him .3 LRS cause I am not happy with his intake.

I do imagine it's the pain though . Day 3 is always the worst. And he will get all his feedings today ( no surgery :) ) so.. I am hopeful

[Mommaluvy]

Me too! :sadness

He does look better:Love_Icon I love lil Frankinsquee :Love_Icon

:nono Don't you feel bad....this little Manie is here and not eaten alive by maggots cuz of you:great the vet tech sounds like a jerk...and I really like your vet....I think some would have insisted on euthanizing ....but Tyke has the spirit..plus more to fight and even better he has you already head over heels for him....along with the rest of us:grouphug

She said her mom was a rehabber out in Illinois?

I was debating Euth as I was pickin the maggots off.. But I still think it was just in time.. They were severe but small still . And the cap star seemed to work perfectly. And he had spunk... But neither vet that saw him suggested it so .. I was not going to either LOL.

Thanks for all the encouragement :)

[UDoWhat]

This little guy is what it is all about and why we do this. :Love_Icon You have done great with this precious baby. I love him:blowkiss

I sent you another PM.

[Shewhosweptforest]

:grin3 Aww so good to hear Tyke is eating.....and looking bright eyed :Love_Icon Hang in there baby boy :blowkiss

Keep up the great work Mommaluvy .....Udowhat said it perfectly...This is what it's all about :grouphug Saving lil ones...one at a time :bowdown

I'm so glad you followed your instinct and kept picking :yuck I know you probably felt like they were crawling on you ...probably still do :hug

[Mommaluvy]

And he just puked up half his feed


Maybe cause I screwed up my math this morning 4.5 cc not 6 what was I thinking

[Mommaluvy]

Trying to figure this out.. Vet has not called back.

Did I over feed?

Is this toxins from any internal maggots?

Is this anesthesia complications ( simple nausea - I would have expected that yesterday? )

So many possibilities

[TubeDriver]

Perhaps focus extra on hydration? That will replenish fluids he lost when he threw up, help flush out toxins etc etc.

You gave oral Capstar? That should take care of internal maggots?



Trying to figure this out.. Vet has not called back.

Did I over feed?

Is this toxins from any internal maggots?

Is this anesthesia complications ( simple nausea - I would have expected that yesterday? )

So many possibilities

[Mommaluvy]

Yes he got capstar twice. 36 hours apart.

[Shewhosweptforest]

He's been thru so much in a short time....does he seem the same as far as activity and alertness? I agree with TD, hydration....I know we learned from UDoWhat that sometimes digestion does not work efficiently when they're dehydrated :dono just brainstorming .... I know how frustrating it is when these problems rise up out of nowhere....just got one thing fixed, and up pops another :hug

[SammysMom]

I just had one last week who threw up all that I fed her. I almost died of worry, but I did extra hydration and here was never another sign of trouble. Hopefully that is all it is with yours too. :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Mommaluvy]

I just had one last week who threw up all that I fed her. I almost died of worry, but I did extra hydration and here was never another sign of trouble. Hopefully that is all it is with yours too. :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

Vet gave him fluids all day yesterday.. And I sub q him every 4 hours .3 or 3/10 of a syringe. I never stopped

But it may have just been too much food- too rich- this is his first day on full strength .. Maybe I'll back down.

He has lost 10 grams over 3 days. 88 grams this am. Down from 97 at intake...

He is super lethargic when left alone . He does not wake up unless I pick him up. The. He is bright eyes and curious. Some times he grabs the nipple some times not.

His gait is off so if and when I post a video you have to remember that one side is all stretched .. On top of being weak.. He walks really pain-Ed.

I have not started the tramadol yet, cause of the vomit and afraid it would sedated him and he would choke... but will do another round of metacam today.

My gut tells me it's just pain and richness of formula.

Vet has still not called back :tap

[Shewhosweptforest]

S-Qing is a lifesaver ....but I don't think it gives the same benefits to the digestive tract that orally given does :dono

Also, I hate to say it ...it's so horrible....but some of that weight loss was loss of tissue :sadness and maggots :yuck which is better than actual weight loss :thumbsup

[UDoWhat]

Vet gave him fluids all day yesterday.. And I sub q him every 4 hours .3 or 3/10 of a syringe. I never stopped

But it may have just been too much food- too rich- this is his first day on full strength .. Maybe I'll back down.

He has lost 10 grams over 3 days. 88 grams this am. Down from 97 at intake...

He is super lethargic when left alone . He does not wake up unless I pick him up. The. He is bright eyes and curious. Some times he grabs the nipple some times not.

His gait is off so if and when I post a video you have to remember that one side is all stretched .. On top of being weak.. He walks really pain-Ed.

I have not started the tramadol yet, cause of the vomit and afraid it would sedated him and he would choke... but will do another round of metacam today.

My gut tells me it's just pain and richness of formula.

Vet has still not called back :tap

- I am in agreement with your assessment of the situation.
- Yes, I would back down on the full strength formula . Maybe stay at 3/4 strength for a day or so.
- I would not start the Tramadol yet. I am not sure why I feel that way. I just am afraid to throw so much at him. However, he will need something for pain. Good thinking on the sedation/ choking factor.
- I do not know how much you are feeding him or at what % . I would go under 5% for a day or so.
-Rapid weight loss and starvation (emaciation) causes electrolyte imbalances and that can bring on dehydration, lethargy, and a host of other symptoms including vomiting. I am not surprised he has lost weight. He has been terribly stressed. I do agree with your premise that the vomiting was most likely too much, too soon. Pain, stress and all he has been through.
- I think the sleeping is a side effect of the surgery, anathesia, pain and stress. Our bodies need rest and sleep to heal. He must be exhausted from the pain and ordeal he has experienced.
- I am sure the gait will improve as the pain subsides and the skin stretches on that side.

What a precious little fighter he is. :Love_Icon He is so lucky to have you leading the way. You are doing great.

[Mommaluvy]

Thanks for the help !

He was better ish last evening. Kept his feeds down.
Was a bit perkier.

This morning .. He greeted me awake .. Had nice clean urine, nice formed greenish poo ( ? ) DID NOT LOSE WEIGHT TODAY.
88 grams.

Much more curious.. Gait already improved a bit.. Appears to be leaving stitches alone... 8 more days LOL

Still not thrilled about formula.. Took 3 cc well enough. Did not try to force the 4 th cc

I was aiming for 5% BW but relized I should have been aiming for three. I admit when he came in I was more concerned about the wounds and the maggots.. I barely noticed he was as thin as he was.
At least I pushed the hydration and did not rush him on to full strength .

But I have a lot of hope today.

That said .. Vet texted me back late last night... Was not terribly helpful... Did not address the vomiting or my other questions.. And proceeded to basically tell me Tyke would likely be disabled and therefore not release able. BECAUSE OF THE SURGERY ! Would have been nice if he had told me that BEFORE. I still would have gone through with it I think. He still has a chance. But vet does think he will likely die. Gosh I hope not.

I hope to prove him wrong on that . But I still admire his work and his love for animals.

So... Any ideas on how to break up scar tissue when tyke is ready? Oil massages? He came in a wild with eyes open LOL hope he stays as friendly as he has been.. LOL

[CritterMom]

Thanks for the help !

He was better ish last evening. Kept his feeds down.
Was a bit perkier.

This morning .. He greeted me awake .. Had nice clean urine, nice formed greenish poo ( ? ) DID NOT LOSE WEIGHT TODAY.
88 grams.

Much more curious.. Gait already improved a bit.. Appears to be leaving stitches alone... 8 more days LOL

Still not thrilled about formula.. Took 3 cc well enough. Did not try to force the 4 th cc

I was aiming for 5% BW but relized I should have been aiming for three. I admit when he came in I was more concerned about the wounds and the maggots.. I barely noticed he was as thin as he was.
At least I pushed the hydration and did not rush him on to full strength .

But I have a lot of hope today.

That said .. Vet texted me back late last night... Was not terribly helpful... Did not address the vomiting or my other questions.. And proceeded to basically tell me Tyke would likely be disabled and therefore not release able. BECAUSE OF THE SURGERY ! Would have been nice if he had told me that BEFORE. I still would have gone through with it I think. He still has a chance. But vet does think he will likely die. Gosh I hope not.

I hope to prove him wrong on that . But I still admire his work and his love for animals.

So... Any ideas on how to break up scar tissue when tyke is ready? Oil massages? He came in a wild with eyes open LOL hope he stays as friendly as he has been.. LOL

Poor little guy. He is sounding more hopeful to me.

If I were you, I would begin rubbing emu oil into his incision scar just as soon as it is closed - where you can see that it has skinned over. I won't bore everyone with the benefits of emu oil - you can google it if you are interested - but wound healing and scar reduction is one of the things it is really good at. I use emu oil for everything including my facial moisturizer - I get mine on ebay. You don't need much - a little goes a long way.

Did your vet tell you why he wanted to take this baby off Baytril and on SMZ? I can't think of a reason to do this and certainly knowing what his motivation is is well within your right tel get as far as information. If you do go this route, pay very close attention to hydration - it is hard on them.

[Mommaluvy]

Poor little guy. He is sounding more hopeful to me.


Did your vet tell you why he wanted to take this baby off Baytril and on SMZ? I can't think of a reason to do this and certainly knowing what his motivation is is well within your right tel get as far as information. If you do go this route, pay very close attention to hydration - it is hard on them.

No totally avoided any questions. I was rather shocked. I called him what.. 2 pm and never got a call back. Instead he texted me at 9 pm.. Face booked me actually. I nearly did not see his PM.

I asked about the vomiting and ansthetic. Told him of some bloody drainage ( just some when I cleaned up pee off his incision)
Asked about freedom of movement? And If he had any clue as to the perpetrator ( talon verses cat). I would argue that he needs the baytril longer if it was cat. I know he peobably can't tell but he has been doing wildlife for ages .. Is a coon fan.. And practically has a private zoo in his house. So I am sure he has seen talon verses teeth at some point.

That said... He owns the book from the " questionable organization" here. And may be using that to decide Meds.

My squirrels have been his first though... Despite his long standing as a wild life vet. I get the idea that many down here do not feel squirrels are worthy of vet care. That said I have been told many do minor surgeries at home if Cat-2 permit.

While I am thinking about it I'll check WMB and see if it's a preferred soft tissue drug.

[UDoWhat]

Poor little guy. He is sounding more hopeful to me.

If I were you, I would begin rubbing emu oil into his incision scar just as soon as it is closed - where you can see that it has skinned over. I won't bore everyone with the benefits of emu oil - you can google it if you are interested - but wound healing and scar reduction is one of the things it is really good at. I use emu oil for everything including my facial moisturizer - I get mine on ebay. You don't need much - a little goes a long way.

Did your vet tell you why he wanted to take this baby off Baytril and on SMZ? I can't think of a reason to do this and certainly knowing what his motivation is is well within your right tel get as far as information. If you do go this route, pay very close attention to hydration - it is hard on them.
Agree with Critter Mom. Perhaps, even a topical antibiotic until the wound closes so the skin is not tight, itchy, and have a feeling of pulling. Get him used to being handled. I would begin to gently move his arms and legs to insure he has a good range of motion and the skin does not become tight. Not sure about the switch from Baytril either. :dono I would ask the Vet. I think they are worried about that study with Great Dane puppies still and shy away from Baytril in young squirrels. Maybe not .... IDK . Would like to know the reason though.
Really ....you didn't notice through the wounds and thousands of maggots that he was skinny?? LOL!! That would have been the least of my worries at that point too. Geez .... You are doing great. :bowdown Praying for you both. :Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[Chickenlegs]

Sweet little Tyke. So vet still thinks he won't make it? Sounds like you've moved heaven and earth to get him to a point he can heal and apparently he's working hard to do just that. Kisses to your baby and continued prayers.

[TubeDriver]

I think the care you have been providing is stellar! I don't want to disagree with your vet but I think squirrels are incredible healers and also will overcome many issues. I guess I am just saying "don't set the bar low for this little guy"! He has 4 working limbs, no known neuro issues and he is a fighter!

We have seen a wild momma squirrel that was basically eviscerated with a large, gapping wound that appeared to be open completely though the abdominal wall. This wild squirrel healed, on its own without intervention.

I think the main issue right now is to control infection and to build up his strength so that he can start to recover form his injuries.

Baytril is broad acting and effective but not as effective for deeper tissue/bone type anaerobic infections. There are also a fair number of organisms that are resistant to Baytril. I am no expert but I might maintain him on the baytril and if anything looks worse then consider stacking the SMZ on top to fight MRSA and some types of anaerobes?

Clavamox is also a good Antibiotic for tissue injuries.

[Mommaluvy]

I think the care you have been providing is stellar! I don't want to disagree with your vet but I think squirrels are incredible healers and also will overcome many issues. I guess I am just saying "don't set the bar low for this little guy"! He has 4 working limbs, no known neuro issues and he is a fighter!

We have seen a wild momma squirrel that was basically eviscerated with a large, gapping wound that appeared to be open completely though the abdominal wall. This wild squirrel healed, on its own without intervention.

I think the main issue right now is to control infection and to build up his strength so that he can start to recover form his injuries.

Baytril is broad acting and effective but not as effective for deeper tissue/bone type anaerobic infections. There are also a fair number of organisms that are resistant to Baytril. I am no expert but I might maintain him on the baytril and if anything looks worse then consider stacking the SMZ on top to fight MRSA and some types of anaerobes?

Clavamox is also a good Antibiotic for tissue injuries.

This is amazing !

And no I have not given up on him .. Just scared for him when they talk that way.

Yes. He wants the tribrussin stacked for a few days till he is feeling better then discontinue the baytril. He has yet to answer me on why or define feeling better .

As you can see from the look in his eye .. Tyke was unimpressed by the vets doubt of his super squirrel ness. He is bright eyed.. At his second breakfast while holding the nipple ( eager) and much more spunky looking .
259409

I am concerned about his front top teeth... See next post

[Mommaluvy]

I am pushing on his bottom jaw a little.. But do these top teeth look ok to y'all ? Too short? Broken? Just right? They do line up correctly with the bottoms.. I am just pushing on that bottom jaw.

I am guessing he is 6-7 weeks - he does try to curl his tail over his back sometimes. I have two more squees his age that just started doing that. They are huge compared to him. ( 120 grams) biggest squirrels I have ever had at their age. Last year all nine must have been runty or something. LOL
259410


And when can I stop worrying about maggot die off toxins? Any ideas?

[SammysMom]

I have a little squirrel who is dealing with multiple abscesses. We tried Baytril and SMZ and have now switched to Clavamox/Clinidimycin stacked. She is finally getting better! Both of these were recommended for soft tissue issues.

[Mommaluvy]

I have a little squirrel who is dealing with multiple abscesses. We tried Baytril and SMZ and have now switched to Clavamox/Clinidimycin stacked. She is finally getting better! Both of these were recommended for soft tissue issues.

Poor whittle thang

[TubeDriver]

Left top tooth looks ok but the right top tooth looks shorter (broken or just adjusted differently?). In any case, he has all his front teeth so hopefully they will continue to grow and fill in a bit. Just keep an eye on them!



I am pushing on his bottom jaw a little.. But do these top teeth look ok to y'all ? Too short? Broken? Just right? They do line up correctly with the bottoms.. I am just pushing on that bottom jaw.

I am guessing he is 6-7 weeks - he does try to curl his tail over his back sometimes. I have two more squees his age that just started doing that. They are huge compared to him. ( 120 grams) biggest squirrels I have ever had at their age. Last year all nine must have been runty or something. LOL
259410


And when can I stop worrying about maggot die off toxins? Any ideas?

[TubeDriver]

I have a little squirrel who is dealing with multiple abscesses. We tried Baytril and SMZ and have now switched to Clavamox/Clinidimycin stacked. She is finally getting better! Both of these were recommended for soft tissue issues.

:goodpost

In my limited experience, this is a very powerful mix that has a good chance of knocking out even very serious/multiple tissue injuries!

[Mommaluvy]

Oh.. Forgot to remind that he had the little guy on a huge dose of baytril.. Twice as high as WMB for his weight.

When I started the SmZ I went down to the WMB dose... Since he wanted it stopped after a few days. And since we can not rule out cat bite.

So he had 2 days of the high dose.

[UDoWhat]

Oh.. Forgot to remind that he had the little guy on a huge dose of baytril.. Twice as high as WMB for his weight.

When I started the SmZ I went down to the WMB dose... Since he wanted it stopped after a few days. And since we can not rule out cat bite.

So he had 2 days of the high dose.


I am so glad this little one is doing better. I am not sure how long you need to be worried about maggot toxins but since he seems to be doing better each day I am hoping that means we are "out of the woods" on that issue. What is his weight today?

I wanted to let you know that the last 2x times I have been at the Vet he has dosed Baytril for squirrels higher than we usually dose, (per WMB). He asked me what I had been dosing on the Baytril. I have always dosed at 10mg/kg. He remarked that dose seemed LOW to him and dosed it higher. Now, I am wondering if this is new info and that maybe we should dose Baytril higher?? :dono I think I will investigate this different dosing since this is the second time I am hearing this higher dose from Vets. IDK... seems like a trend. Have others had their Vets dosing Baytril higher? :thinking I will continue with the dosing per WMB until I can call around to some of the bigger centers in MD with Vets on staff to see if this Baytril dose has changed.

[Mommaluvy]

What is his weight today?

I wanted to let you know that the last 2x times I have been at the Vet he has dosed Baytril for squirrels higher than we usually dose, (per WMB). He asked me what I had been dosing on the Baytril. I have always dosed at 10mg/kg. .

Tyke is still 88 today.. but no loss :) and he just started taking 5% BW today. He was MUCH better this morning even.. very curious .. I even offered him a rodent block JIC he was interested. Seemed like he wanted more formula.. at the last two feedings.

Vet used the 10mg/kg but wanted it done twice a day. Instead of once. So for instance.. If WMB said a squee of a certain weight gets .05 for daily dose .. This vet said to use that TWICE a day.

[TubeDriver]

hmmm...:dono Dosage strength is listed as 2.5mg/kg up to 15mg/kg.

I always found the WMB dosing for baytril confusing because it lists TOTAL daily dose (but for other ABs it lists each dose separately). So whatever dose you see listed for should be halved for BID dosing.

Perhaps just err on the side of giving slightly too little since the dose is really a little more than recommended?

On the other hand, he sounds to be improving so perhaps just continuing on the same course is called for?




Tyke is still 88 today.. but no loss :) and he just started taking 5% BW today. He was MUCH better this morning even.. very curious .. I even offered him a rodent block JIC he was interested. Seemed like he wanted more formula.. at the last two feedings.

Vet used the 10mg/kg but wanted it done twice a day. Instead of once. So for instance.. If WMB said a squee of a certain weight gets .05 for daily dose .. This vet said to use that TWICE a day.

[UDoWhat]

So happy to see his weight holding.:dance He will begin to gain soon, I know.

On the Baytril, TD, the dosing range for mammals is suggested 2.5 - 15mg/kg so the 10mg/kg is below the highest daily dose. Hmmmm, I think I will call some others in the area and see if they have changed anything. :Phone IDK. Also WMB lists Baytril total daily dose because it can be dosed 1x per day. Still confusing...

[Nancy in New York]

From the Rat Guide.

259461

[TubeDriver]

Hi UDW, I agree that 10mg/kg is pretty standard dosing...but not if you double up the dose. It effectively becomes 20mg/kg at that point, right? It is probably fine but I would err on the side of being very conservative when drawing up the solution in a syringe. I like the 1x day dosing with Cipro because I have been able to treat wilds without trapping them but for indoor/caged squirrels I think 2x per day will provide more consistent drug levels. It will be great for everyone if you can figure out if there has been any change in Baytril dosing?

I do not want to distract too much from the thread here, this squirrel sounds like it is improving so lets keep fingers crossed and hope to see continued improvement! :)




So happy to see his weight holding.:dance He will begin to gain soon, I know.

On the Baytril, TD, the dosing range for mammals is suggested 2.5 - 15mg/kg so the 10mg/kg is below the highest daily dose. Hmmmm, I think I will call some others in the area and see if they have changed anything. :Phone IDK. Also WMB lists Baytril total daily dose because it can be dosed 1x per day. Still confusing...

[Mommaluvy]

I don't mind a little distraction :)

He is just cruising along slowly. Still resting a lot.

Found a new injury.. His tongue.

Has a flap hanging off like he bit his tongue. Saw it when he yawned today . :/ maybe he bit it when he was either dropped or first caught?

He has a skritchy spot on his jaw... Make s him melt LOL


And his stools are normal FV colored now... But there is blood in his stool. Just streaked stools. No diarrhea Thank God. But .. Maybe internal injury ?

He is only the second squirrel in 16 to not have the runs. LOL

I'll remove a bunch of videos and stuff and see if I can get one posted for you all to evaluate his gait. I am hoping it's just weakness and tight skin.

[UDoWhat]

Gee wiz this little one ( and you) have been through it... :shakehead I think now most likely a bird of prey snatched him and then dropped little Tyke. Poor little wee one. I love him more everyday. :blowkiss
Every once in a while I have had babies with blood in their stool for several days and then it just disappeared. Usually it lessened in appearance as the days passed. Watch for increasing amounts of blood. I would call the Vet if you see increased amounts. I am thinking this will go away soon, however.
It will be interesting to see video of his gait but it may be early to really tell. I am sure the little guy is thinking, "What ? They want me to walk perfectly this soon? I am a little baby, you know ......" :laugh2

[Mommaluvy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca8KUbz1b9E

True.. It may be to soon. But I think it's weakness etc. he did go through an awful lot.

At the end he gets scritchies

[Chickenlegs]

Oh my GOD he is beautiful. What a lucky boy. Considering all he's been through he's doing GREAT. I am head over heels in love with your little man. That FACE! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[SQUIRRELSAREME]

You are doing such a amazing job with this little guy, I am always in awe at how fast they heal.

[UDoWhat]

I think he looks wonderful! :bowdown You are right in that his movement seems a bit stiff on that side. I think it is due to the stitches and tight skin. He must also have pain when he moves. That might also limit range of motion some. I would not worry about the drainage. I think drainage is normal as long as it is relatively odorless, clear and maybe slight traces of blood. If it has color or oder then it would need attention. I have to say though, I think he is making great progress. It is amazing that he is this active. Keep doing what you are doing. It's working:thumbsup I loved seeing the "armage". What a beautiful thing. :Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

Looking good lil Tyke.....I'd never be able to put him down....:embar He'd definitely be a bra baby :eek :grin3

It bears repeating "he's so lucky to have ended up with you!" :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

Oh my goodness! Tyke looks terrific!!! :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[TubeDriver]

UDOWhat - this is what I have heard about Cipro. Cipro and Baytril are essentially the same but Cipro undergoes an metabolic step before it essentially becomes Baytril. During this step, the Cipro efficacy/strength is reduced by about 30% so that in theory it might make sense to dose higher for Cipro than for Baytril. However, I have not heard any consensus on this matter.

I wonder if vets are dosing higher amounts because of increasing resistance to the AB?





I am so glad this little one is doing better. I am not sure how long you need to be worried about maggot toxins but since he seems to be doing better each day I am hoping that means we are "out of the woods" on that issue. What is his weight today?

I wanted to let you know that the last 2x times I have been at the Vet he has dosed Baytril for squirrels higher than we usually dose, (per WMB). He asked me what I had been dosing on the Baytril. I have always dosed at 10mg/kg. He remarked that dose seemed LOW to him and dosed it higher. Now, I am wondering if this is new info and that maybe we should dose Baytril higher?? :dono I think I will investigate this different dosing since this is the second time I am hearing this higher dose from Vets. IDK... seems like a trend. Have others had their Vets dosing Baytril higher? :thinking I will continue with the dosing per WMB until I can call around to some of the bigger centers in MD with Vets on staff to see if this Baytril dose has changed.

[UDoWhat]

ML and TD I am wondering the same about the resistance factor on the Baytril. I have some emails out. Hope to find out what others are doing.

I just looked at the video again. Tyke is so cute.:Love_Icon I am amazed at how good he is doing. I showed the vid to another MD rehabber. She brought up the fact that he really has lost a week of normal development just with the surgery. She too thought he was doing great. :w00t I love these little fighters. :hug

[island rehabber]

I'm lurking and grinning from ear to ear, over here....Tyke looks wonderful! The teamwork and dedication shown in this thread is just flawless and little Tyke is the proof of all of your expertise. :Love_Icon

[Shewhosweptforest]

The vet we go to always doses higher then recommended here :dono I always follow the board's advice :thumbsup I'm glad you're checking it out UDoWhat....it does shake your confidence in the vet when they don't seem to know what they are doing....at least medicinally :thinking

[Mommaluvy]

He gained a few grams.. 88-91 whoot!

Activity level is increasing and his appetite.

[SammysMom]

This is wonderful news! You are really doing a terrific job with him!:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[UDoWhat]

He gained a few grams.. 88-91 whoot!

Activity level is increasing and his appetite.

You go boy! :w00t This is soooo good. It makes me want to.....:banana:banana:banana:banana

[Chickenlegs]

Talkaboucha MIRACLES! This is a realio trulio one. Folks think miracles just fall in your lap. This one took work, dedication and love on your part ML and fight on Tykes part. Anytime I need a smile, I'm gonna think of Tyke and his loving mama!
THERE's a dynamic duo! :applause

[Mommaluvy]

The poor kid..,

The vet took out some of his stitches :( said it was infected.

Damn.. Now it smells..

He wants me to hit it with peroxide 3 times a day.. It looks terrible again .. :( Apparently I was supposed to be doing this for 8 days. Neither he, nor the tech, nor my mentor told me to do this. I feel like an idiot.

He and the tech told me to keep him dry. That was all the instruction I was given via them post op. Dang it.

Why would he stitch it if he preferred open wounds !?

I am so confused.

So.. Anyone want to teach me wound care 101?