Milk Thistle - How do I dose?

[Milo's Mom]

How is Milk Thistle dosed?

Searched board, unable to find.

Thanks!!!

[Nancy in New York]

Contact CritterMom, she may know.
I had it here once but can's find the info now.
I will keep looking.
What strength do you have?

[Milo's Mom]

500mg

[Milo's Mom]

PM sent to CritterMom and TubeDriver. Thanks for the leads guys!!!

If anyone knows, please don't assume someone else got back to me. Post what you know, please!

Thank you (from me and Little Girl)

[Nancy in New York]

PM sent to CritterMom and TubeDriver. Thanks for the leads guys!!!

If anyone knows, please don't assume someone else got back to me. Post what you know, please!

Thank you (from me and Little Girl)

This is what I found so far.

Milk Thistle Dosage

Because the amount of milk thistle per capsule varies according to brand, only your vet can recommend the exact dosage for your dog. However, as a general guidance, the recommended dosage is 75 to 100 mg for every 10 pounds of body weight once a day, according to the Winrock Animal Clinic in Houston, Texas. Higher dosages might be needed for dogs with severe liver problems.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/way_5158582_much-milk-thistle-give-dog.html

[Milo's Mom]

Wow. That would be like a drop of my 500mg concentrate liquid.

She barely 100 grams.

[Nancy in New York]

Wow. That would be like a drop of my 500mg concentrate liquid.

She barely 100 grams.

Yeah, that's the best I can do.
Can you measure out 500 mg, and then we can break it down from there?
I will be asking for double checking on my math so that may take me a minute.

[Nancy in New York]

Just thinking if you can measure out 500 mg. in a ml syringe, we can do this.
Just let me know the exact amount.

[Milo's Mom]

Measure out 500mg? I don't understand what you're asking me to do.

[Milo's Mom]

If it's 500mg strength 1mL would be 500mg. (at least that's what the bottle says)

Serving size is 1mL and each mL contains 500mg.

[Nancy in New York]

Measure out 500mg? I don't understand what you're asking me to do.

Does it have dosing instructions on the back?
Something like one dropper full contains X mg of mild thistle?
How would you know how much you are giving an animal?
Let me go look at my bottle.

[Nancy in New York]

If it's 500mg strength 1mL would be 500mg. (at least that's what the bottle says)

Serving size is 1mL and each mL contains 500mg.

OK Let me work this out. BRB

[Milo's Mom]

Oh and since I'm asking here's the next question.

The bottle says if on any other medications consult your doc before taking. She's on Baytril for a suspected cat attack. She's been on Baytril since Monday morning with little to no change, so I'm thinking it might not be a cat attack. She does not have any infections, but she's kind of torn up on the head and shoulder. Everything has scabbed over and nothing looks angry...her demeanor is still very lack luster and extremely quiet.

The pads of her feet are turning yellow and her urine is so freaking yellow I cannot describe the color, other than YELLOW in its truest form. She's been hydrated to the moon and back and her urine output is impressive (normal amounts).

There is no chance of transfer of color of urine to her feet.

Shall I stop Baytril and get her on the Milk Thistle or are they okay together? Last dose was at 8am this morning.

[Nancy in New York]

Going to have to search about Baytril and MT, not sure about the answer.

Here you go for the dosing.
IF you use as is, the dose will be 0.004 ml (500 mg strength)

IF you take 1 ml of the MT add 9 mls of water to make a 50 mg strength the dose will be 0.044

This is dosed at 100 mg/10 lbs.

[Milo's Mom]

Perfect, thank you.



I'm searching for the Baytril MT combo too.

[Nancy in New York]

Perfect, thank you.



I'm searching for the Baytril MT combo too.

The only antibiotic I see mentioned is Amoxicillian, nothing yet about Baytril or Cipro. :dono

[Milo's Mom]

How often and how long should the MT be given?

I'm going to stop the Baytril just to be safe...I think she needs the MT more right now.

[Nancy in New York]

How often and how long should the MT be given?

I'm going to stop the Baytril just to be safe...I think she needs the MT more right now.

Well the site above where we got the dose of 75mg - 100 mg per 10 pounds did NOT say the length of time, but the dose is ONCE daily.
However I found this. So lets start now, and we have a few days minimum to get the right answer.

Milk Thistle for Dogs - Precautions

Despite the fact that milk thistle is hailed as "the" herb for the liver, it should NOT be given to healthy dogs as a daily supplement. Some studies show that long-term use of very high dosages of milk thistle will eventually suppress liver function.

Milk thistle should therefore be used only as a medicinal herb for the treatment of liver disorders and other health problems as mentioned above.

Additionally, silymarin is not recommended for use in pregnant women. It is probably a good idea not to use milk thistle in pregnant dogs until more information has become available.

[Milo's Mom]

Thank you very much Nancy!! :thumbsup

Unless you think differently, I'm going to do the MT twice a day and the Baytril has been stopped effective immediately.

Does this sound reasonable?

EDIT: Ok, then once a day. I was going by the bottle that said 3-4 times a day. I'll do once a day, keep pushing fluids, and begging her to eat. When she does not eat she gets subq'd.

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you very much Nancy!! :thumbsup

Unless you think differently, I'm going to do the MT twice a day and the Baytril has been stopped effective immediately.

Does this sound reasonable?

Your welcome MM.
The site said once a day, but with her symptoms
I would probably suggest dosing twice daily for 5 days or
so. This is pretty wide margin for error.
I hope that others chime in as well.

I see no evidence of interaction, but if you feel the antibiotic is
doing nothing/questionable, I would stop as it can be hard on their tummies.

Milk Thistle Dosage

Because the amount of milk thistle per capsule varies according to brand, only your vet can recommend the exact dosage for your dog. However, as a general guidance, the recommended dosage is 75 to 100 mg for every 10 pounds of body weight once a day, according to the Winrock Animal Clinic in Houston, Texas. Higher dosages might be needed for dogs with severe liver problems.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/way_5158582_much-milk-thistle-give-dog.html

[Milo's Mom]

Pics of her sweet little self and of her pee yesterday. In the pics it looks like it has a tinge of brown. It does NOT, it is pure yellow...just a bad interpretation by the camera.

258734258735258733258732

[Milo's Mom]

So you think twice a day is good then? I'll do twice a day and we'll see how things go.

Thank you again, I really appreciate it.

[island rehabber]

MM, that is seriously the yellowest pee I have ever seen! Hope the MT helps this little girlie.

[CritterMom]

Just in case you decide to stick with the meds, I see no interaction warnings for it though there are quite a few on this site: http://www.rxlist.com/milk_thistle-page3/supplements.htm#Interactions

[Milo's Mom]

Just in case you decide to stick with the meds, I see no interaction warnings for it though there are quite a few on this site: http://www.rxlist.com/milk_thistle-page3/supplements.htm#Interactions

That's the site I was reading!! I don't see any either, but I don't think the meds are doing anything and with her being compromised already I don't think it's wise to push it. If something comes up I can always put her back on them.

Thanks!!

[TubeDriver]

This is what I sent MM.

Milk Thistle appears to be virtually harmless even at EXTREMELY large doses (there are numerous studies, many which involve rats).
Studies consider a toxic dose of silymarin to be 5g/kg (so approx 10g for a squirrel). No acute toxity was reported for rats given 2g/kg for 13 weeks. In other words it is incredibly safe.

It is impossible to say what percent active ingredients general "Milk Thistle" contains but
Extrapolating generally, an adult squirrel should get ~1% of the recommended human dose.

Side effects can include some GI stuff (diarrhea, gas) and always watch out for the rare but serious anaphylaxis response in cases were allergic reaction occurs.

[Nancy in New York]

This is what I sent MM.

Milk Thistle appears to be virtually harmless even at EXTREMELY large doses (there are numerous studies, many which involve rats).
Studies consider a toxic dose of silymarin to be 5g/kg (so approx 10g for a squirrel). No acute toxity was reported for rats given 2g/kg for 13 weeks. In other words it is incredibly safe.

It is impossible to say what percent active ingredients general "Milk Thistle" contains but
Extrapolating generally, an adult squirrel should get ~1% of the recommended human dose.

Side effects can include some GI stuff (diarrhea, gas) and always watch out for the rare but serious anaphylaxis response in cases were allergic reaction occurs.

Great information. :bowdown
What dose would you recommend, and how often daily?

[Nancy in New York]

So you think twice a day is good then? I'll do twice a day and we'll see how things go.

Thank you again, I really appreciate it.

Never a problem, MM.
Tube Driver posted some valuable information, so I KNOW you're safe with twice daily.
I agree, that IS yellow. Poor little stinker. :sadness

[TubeDriver]

I am not sure but I would take what is recommended as a safe dose for a human for any given MT product and give about 1% of that for an adult squirrel. If you wanted to be conservative, give 0.5% but I think that MT is so safe that really does not matter. Dosing by squirrel body weight is pointless here, we do not know the percent of active ingredients in any given MT product and it appears to be very safe.

I would give for 3-4 weeks and revaluate symptoms. If symptoms persist, I would continue giving MT for another 3-4 weeks and evaluate.




Great information. :bowdown
What dose would you recommend, and how often daily?

[Milo's Mom]

So are you saying you think I need to go with a stronger dose of MT?

I'm not sure how long it takes for jaundice to take you down, but this is scary!

Tomorrow, if it's sunny, I'll take her outside (in the safety of her bin) and get her some direct sunlight. I know we strongly encourage people to NOT take their squirrels outside and I am very aware of the risks. She will not leave her bin and I will be within inches of her the entire time. She's entirely to weak and wobbly to run...she barely walks.

Here are pics of her urine from 10 minutes ago. Not sure if my eyes are playing tricks on me...but I think it's getting darker.

She flat out refused formula tonight. I got 3cc's of slightly diluted applesauce and 2.5cc's of Electrostat into her. In addition, she got 6cc's LRS subq.

258737258736

[Milo's Mom]

Thank you all for your help. :grouphug

[TubeDriver]

I guess I am saying that whatever you give her will probably be safe but this is one of those rare cases were more might actually be better?


1% of a human dose is ball park where you want to be. And hydrate as much as possible.



So are you saying you think I need to go with a stronger dose of MT?

I'm not sure how long it takes for jaundice to take you down, but this is scary!

Tomorrow, if it's sunny, I'll take her outside (in the safety of her bin) and get her some direct sunlight. I know we strongly encourage people to NOT take their squirrels outside and I am very aware of the risks. She will not leave her bin and I will be within inches of her the entire time. She's entirely to weak and wobbly to run...she barely walks.

Here are pics of her urine from 10 minutes ago. Not sure if my eyes are playing tricks on me...but I think it's getting darker.

She flat out refused formula tonight. I got 3cc's of slightly diluted applesauce and 2.5cc's of Electrostat into her. In addition, she got 6cc's LRS subq.

258737258736

[Milo's Mom]

I upped the dose based upon what TD said. Got 3 doses into her since the start of this thread and 5 minutes ago.

Pushing fluids and if she doesn't take them (or food) she gets subq'd. She does NOT like the subq. I think maybe her eyes look a bit brighter this morning...maybe just my head being hopeful.

Anyone know how long MT takes to work or at least start showing signs of progress? I know it's not an immediate fix, but some sort of a timeline would be nice.

After begging and pleading with her I did manage to get 6cc's of slightly diluted FV into her for breakfast. Will offer fluids at 10 and food at 12.

I believe her condition is the result of poisoning from Zodiac Flea Powder....not positive but it sure does make sense. I did not use it she came to me that way (COVERED in it...like she was breaded) and she's been thoroughly bathed with Dawn...days ago.

[TubeDriver]

Just a guess but I think you would see some results in 2 weeks or so? Not immediate results but fairly quick.

If the liver is damaged from Tylenol and alcohol,it can repair itself within 30 days.

[Milo's Mom]

Was not interested in hydration at 1030 (got 1cc into her), but she took a decent breakfast so I left her alone till lunch. I was aiming for 6cc and she called it quits at 5cc. Breakfast was diluted at bit, lunch was full strength...she really needs calories as she's been losing weight. Hydration again in a few hours.

Gave MT this morning and will again tonight.

She is certainly much perkier and even acts like she's wanting to participate. Pee is the same and poops are becoming plentiful. Poops are darn near perfect in size and consistency. They could be a tiny bit larger but honestly I'm thrilled with what she's been giving me. Their color is getting a little lighter but they have the same YELLOW undertone as her pee...they are kinda rust colored, but if I soak them in water they start to bleed YELLOW.

Her little body is working hard to keep things moving and to push out the toxins. Hopefully she can pull through this.

I am guardedly pleased as of this moment.

Thank you again for all of your help and information.