FV 20/50 causing diarrhea?

[Elise]

Hello TSB fam,

I have been transitioning LuLu from esbilac to FV 20/50 since her eyes opened on May 15, one week ago today. At first I started out doing 25% FV and 75% esbilac. Then I noticed her once solid poop pellets became softer until finally becoming diarrhea. I dropped the FV down to 15% and esbilac up to 85%. Poops became more solid but never very firm. I did this for two days then back up to 25% FV. Same problem. Diarrhea. Went back down to 15% FV for a day then tried to go back up. Diarrhea again. Same process all week.

My question is, is this a long enough time to determine that FV 20/50 is just just going to work for her? Should I keep trying the transition? It's been a full 7 days since I seen a very solid poop and I'm worried about this. She is hydrated and has a great appetite. I feed her 5-7% of her body weight and I weight her every day to determine that.

Advice would be appreciated :grin3

[CritterMom]

If I were you, I would find the sweet spot for HER and stick there. If that is straight Esbilac, then so be it. You can boost it with a small bit of full fat yogurt if you wish - I like the Stoneyfield Yobaby because it is full fat, not lowfat like most, and additional fat is what you are getting from the 20/50. Not to mention it tastes yummy and they really like it! The probiotics it supplies are nice too.

[stepnstone]

I have had this with some of my babies that just can not tolerate the FV.
They do fine on the esbilac and even when adding the ultra boost if I've felt they needed it.
I wouldn't keep trying with the results you are seeing.

[Mommaluvy]

If I were you, I would find the sweet spot for HER and stick there. If that is straight Esbilac, then so be it. You can boost it with a small bit of full fat yogurt if you wish - I like the Stoneyfield Yobaby because it is full fat, not lowfat like most, and additional fat is what you are getting from the 20/50. Not to mention it tastes yummy and they really like it! The probiotics it supplies are nice too.

Ditto.

[Elise]

If I were you, I would find the sweet spot for HER and stick there. If that is straight Esbilac, then so be it. You can boost it with a small bit of full fat yogurt if you wish - I like the Stoneyfield Yobaby because it is full fat, not lowfat like most, and additional fat is what you are getting from the 20/50. Not to mention it tastes yummy and they really like it! The probiotics it supplies are nice too.

So it's ok that she's going to be on straight esbilac until she weans herself then? (If 100% esbilac is determined to be best for her?)

I doubt I can find that type of yogurt where I live (very rural) but I will sure look. When I had her on goats milk formula I found a vanilla yogurt she liked a lot that was 5% fat. That was the highest fat content I could find in all 4 grocery stores near by.

Thanks for your help!

[Elise]

I have had this with some of my babies that just can not tolerate the FV.
They do fine on the esbilac and even when adding the ultra boost if I've felt they needed it.
I wouldn't keep trying with the results you are seeing.

Thanks! I think I'm going to stick to esbilac then.

How do you determine if they need the ultra boost?

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks! I think I'm going to stick to esbilac then.

How do you determine if they need the ultra boost?

With the Fox Valley, the second number is the fat content.
32/40 is for eyes closed.
20/50 is for older.

I'm assuming since you can use puppy esbilac for newborn right on up, it isn't as specific as Fox Valley, and
may be a little low on fat content.

Not sure why but older ones need more fat in their formula. Since you aren't using the
FV formula 20/50 and just the puppy esbilac, I would do as stepnstone suggested and get the Ultra Boost.
From their site: http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/product-lines/milkreplacers/ultra-boost/

[UDoWhat]

Thanks! I think I'm going to stick to esbilac then.

How do you determine if they need the ultra boost?

I kept all of mine on Esbilac this year. They were doing so good I did not want to tempt fate. I did add a little Ultra Boost to the formula when their eyes opened.
If they are not gainig weight fast enough or more slowly then you think they should, then you may want to consider adding Ultra Boost. If they are gaining weight steadily then you may not even need or want to add the Ultra Boost to their formula.

[Elise]

Ok thanks for all the advice everyone! I will keep her on esbilac and add yogurt to it until the ultra boost arrives. Thanks again!:grin3

[janiemcm]

[From their site: [url]http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/product-lines/milkreplacers/ultra-boost]

or, if you're on the east coast, you can get the Ultra Boost from Chris's Squirrels : http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/

[janiemcm]

many of my squirrels also could not handle the 20/50. so I watered it down - 10% water to 90% formula and they were good with that. eventually, after about 2 weeks, they were fine with full strength.

[Elise]

many of my squirrels also could not handle the 20/50. so I watered it down - 10% water to 90% formula and they were good with that. eventually, after about 2 weeks, they were fine with full strength.

Do you mean 10% formula to 90% water?

If so, I would worry about that not giving enough nutrients.

[Coralreefer]

We use the Esbilac only mixed with plain yogurt and heavy whipping cream.

None of our last 4 little ones have had issues on this besides for the initial transition from moms milk to the formula.

[Elise]

Update: So I've switched LuLu to 100% powered esbilac as of 6 days ago. Her diarrhea has STILL not let up yet. I gave it some time because I figured all the FV needed to get out of her system and that might take some time. But it's been a week as of tomorrow and she still has diarrhea. (She will be seven weeks old tomorrow).

Now, I don't know if it was actually the FV causing the diarrhea after all or if something else unrelated is going on. Now what? I don't know what to do for her and I really want to help her. Is there any medicine that I can get a hold of with out a vet?(no vets here will see us).

As far as LuLu's behavior, she has been extremely normal and doesn't seem to be uncomfortable or in any pain. I spend all day with her and still feed her once during the night and to check up on her. She is peppy, seems very happy and scales me like a tree any time she gets to.

I would appreciate help with this please! ( I'm sure LuLu would too).

[Elise]

Also, I've tried the esbilac with and without yogurt, to see if that had any effect. It didn't.

I've also been making sure to hydrate her between feelings with homemade pedialite.

[Elise]

Here are pictures of her today. :bliss258481258482

[CritterMom]

Are you talking diarrhea as in watery mess or diarrhea as in Grey Poupon? I probably just wrecked that for a lot of people.

Have you offered any blocks yet? Sometimes something like switching formula just seems to start this and it persists until they begin to consume some dry food, which firms things up. I like Rice Chex for this, too. They usually figure they are a treat and they aren't horrible in the nutrition area. Rice is notorious for binding diarrhea.

Continuing the hydration any time you see poop abnormalities is vital. At this point, remake your homemade pedialyte without the salt - she doesn't need that day in and day out but she DOES need the fluids.

Have you tried stopping formula feedings and substituting only hydration for a half day to try to flush her little system?

You are in Montana - can I assume you have farm/livestock stores/Tractor Supply type places around? Many of the wormers that are designed for horses are the same ones you would use to get rid of possible parasites in a squirrel - just in massively reduced doses. They are usually flavored something like apple which makes it a little easier to give, too. If this becomes an issue it would be good to know you have those available locally.

[Elise]

Are you talking diarrhea as in watery mess or diarrhea as in Grey Poupon? I probably just wrecked that for a lot of people.

Have you offered any blocks yet? Sometimes something like switching formula just seems to start this and it persists until they begin to consume some dry food, which firms things up. I like Rice Chex for this, too. They usually figure they are a treat and they aren't horrible in the nutrition area. Rice is notorious for binding diarrhea.

Continuing the hydration any time you see poop abnormalities is vital. At this point, remake your homemade pedialyte without the salt - she doesn't need that day in and day out but she DOES need the fluids.

Have you tried stopping formula feedings and substituting only hydration for a half day to try to flush her little system?

You are in Montana - can I assume you have farm/livestock stores/Tractor Supply type places around? Many of the wormers that are designed for horses are the same ones you would use to get rid of possible parasites in a squirrel - just in massively reduced doses. They are usually flavored something like apple which makes it a little easier to give, too. If this becomes an issue it would be good to know you have those available locally.

It's a mix of grey poupon and a watery mess. Sometimes it will be more solid and grey poupon-ish and sometimes it's just watery.

I have given her HHBs and she's chewed on them a little. I will try the rice chex mix.

I will take out the salt of the pedialite mix.

I haven't done exclusively hydration for a half of day. Should I try this?

There is definitely ranch supply store near by that would have the worming Meds. Just wondering what I should try first?

It's weird because before when I was only giving her the esbilac before the FV transitions, she had no problem on it. So strange...

[LaurelLynn]

I add Animal Essentials plant enzymes and probiotics powder to all my formula. I've found that I don't have hardly any diarrhea or constipation issues since I started doing it and if I do, it's usually just once or twice and resolves

I'm not sure if you can add it to esilibac or if it's worth adding since I think it has probiotics already? But just wanted to share in case it's helpful to you

[Mommaluvy]

It's a mix of grey poupon and a watery mess. Sometimes it will be more solid and grey poupon-ish and sometimes it's just watery.

I have given her HHBs and she's chewed on them a little. I will try the rice chex mix.

I will take out the salt of the pedialite mix.

I haven't done exclusively hydration for a half of day. Should I try this?

There is definitely ranch supply store near by that would have the worming Meds. Just wondering what I should try first?

It's weird because before when I was only giving her the esbilac before the FV transitions, she had no problem on it. So strange...

Poor thing. And poor you.
Btdt . Critter mom knows her stuff. I would try the hydration formula only tomorrow.
Meah while.. Rice chex and get some horse panacure !