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beezle-weezle
04-30-2015, 08:52 PM
I took in three squirrels with confirmed Coccidia. Started them on SMZ_TMP. The two boys were fine after a few days but the girl showed no improvement after 10 days on the meds. Did a dose of Baycox... 7 days later no improvement. I began thinking it had to be worms. She took her 3rd dose of Panacur tonight and their is still no improvement. She is about 12 weeks old. Eats 1/2 an HHB every morning and every night. I keep a dish of Oxbow in the cage for them to munch on and she gets Esbilac twice a day. I put baby rice cereal in her formula, If I don't she has blood in her stool. I took a stool sample to the vet and it came back clean. I really don't know what else to do at this point. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Her poop looks like light grey snot. Sometimes it smells bad and sometimes it doesn't. She is getting skinny. She hasn't lost any weight but is not gaining and has not filled out like her brothers.

Shewhosweptforest
04-30-2015, 09:31 PM
I wonder if it's similar to what Lenny went through? Lennysmom had a lot of trouble with him....I believe it did turn out to be hookworms....she had to medicate him several times. I would check out his thread :thumbsup I'm sorry she's going through so much...you, too. It was kind of you to help.....no good deed goes unpunished :grin3 I'm praying for the you both :bowdown :Love_Icon

Mommaluvy
04-30-2015, 09:50 PM
I am so sorry that your going through this...

It reminds me of my Chrysto from last year... Even the poo :(

And yes Lenny's mom had to medical him several times.

Did you follow up with the second course of the baycox ? ( I think it gets a second course)

And the panacur gets repeated too right?


It sounds like your doing everything right . Just keeping clean to prevent re infection

The only thing left I can think of is Giardiasis... But now that I typed it out .. The panacur should have done that.

Maybe another 14 day corse of the Smz TMP - perhaps the coccidia irratated the GI and now maybe there is a low grade bacterial infection? Now that the cox are gone maybe just infection?

I am just thinking out loud.

beezle-weezle
04-30-2015, 09:54 PM
I am so sorry that your going through this...

It reminds me of my Chrysto from last year... Even the poo :(

And yes Lenny's mom had to medical him several times.

Did you follow up with the second course of the baycox ? ( I think it gets a second course)

And the panacur gets repeated too right?


It sounds like your doing everything right . Just keeping clean to prevent re infection

The only thing left I can think of is Giardiasis... But now that I typed it out .. The panacur should have done that.

Maybe another 14 day corse of the Smz TMP - perhaps the coccidia irratated the GI and now maybe there is a low grade bacterial infection? Now that the cox are gone maybe just infection?

I am just thinking out loud.

I plan on doing another dose of Baycox but was waiting until she finished the Panacur. I didn't know if the two could be mixed and I didn't want to upset her stomach.

Mommaluvy
04-30-2015, 10:59 PM
I plan on doing another dose of Baycox but was waiting until she finished the Panacur. I didn't know if the two could be mixed and I didn't want to upset her stomach.

Its probaby wise to space them out at least a few days

UDoWhat
05-01-2015, 03:11 PM
I am really sorry you are having this trouble with your little one. I have a couple of questions. Does the poo have a strong bad smell? Is this baby lethargic or tucked under? Is it dehydrated due to the ongoing loses of fluid from diarrhea? Does it have runny diarrhea or just soft stool?
Since you have had it on the antibiotics for a long course I would be tempted to switch to Metronidazole (Flagyl). This is the “go to” drug for diarrhea that is not responsive to other medications. Usually, diarrhea with mucous and blood are signs of inflammation of the lining of the intestine. The mucosal lining helps to pass the stool. When that lining is being sluffed off due to extreme diarrhea it lets opportunistic bacteria grow and causes an inflammation in the bowels which more than likely at this stage needs to be treated with a different antibiotic. I might even use something like Pepto- Bismol to help soothe the lining of the intestines. I do not often use Pepto but this diarrhea has gone on for a while now. I have read that the ingredients of Pepto Bismol have anti- inflammatory, mild-antibiotic, antacid and protective qualities. It seems to coat the intestines, protecting it from toxins. I think that “Wild Mammal Babies” may have some dosing info on Pepto or a similar item. I believe CritterMom has also suggested Pepto in the past too. She may know how to dose it properly. PetSmart has a dog version called K.P.A.D. I have used that in the past. Also, I would add lacto bacillus acidophilus to the formula to replace the “good” bacteria that is being lost. Stepnstone has a great baby banana and rice cereal recipe that he adds to formula. I see you have been using just the rice cereal. I will try to find that recipe for you. It has also helped in the past. IDK what really works… but I know it is hard the baby and you too. Just another suggestion. Hope something helps. :Love_Icon

beezle-weezle
05-01-2015, 06:58 PM
I am really sorry you are having this trouble with your little one. I have a couple of questions. Does the poo have a strong bad smell? Is this baby lethargic or tucked under? Is it dehydrated due to the ongoing loses of fluid from diarrhea? Does it have runny diarrhea or just soft stool?
Since you have had it on the antibiotics for a long course I would be tempted to switch to Metronidazole (Flagyl). This is the “go to” drug for diarrhea that is not responsive to other medications. Usually, diarrhea with mucous and blood are signs of inflammation of the lining of the intestine. The mucosal lining helps to pass the stool. When that lining is being sluffed off due to extreme diarrhea it lets opportunistic bacteria grow and causes an inflammation in the bowels which more than likely at this stage needs to be treated with a different antibiotic. I might even use something like Pepto- Bismol to help soothe the lining of the intestines. I do not often use Pepto but this diarrhea has gone on for a while now. I have read that the ingredients of Pepto Bismol have anti- inflammatory, mild-antibiotic, antacid and protective qualities. It seems to coat the intestines, protecting it from toxins. I think that “Wild Mammal Babies” may have some dosing info on Pepto or a similar item. I believe CritterMom has also suggested Pepto in the past too. She may know how to dose it properly. PetSmart has a dog version called K.P.A.D. I have used that in the past. Also, I would add lacto bacillus acidophilus to the formula to replace the “good” bacteria that is being lost. Stepnstone has a great baby banana and rice cereal recipe that he adds to formula. I see you have been using just the rice cereal. I will try to find that recipe for you. It has also helped in the past. IDK what really works… but I know it is hard the baby and you too. Just another suggestion. Hope something helps. :Love_Icon

Sometimes it smells bad, and sometimes no smell at all. She is not as active as her brothers but is still playing and climbing. She is not dehydrated I give her water from a syringe 3 times a day and I see her drinking from the water bottle too. She passes the pinch test. I wouldn't really call it diarrhea or loose stools. It is grey and looks like snot. She was eating banana baby food and rice cereal in her formula but she has decided she is sick of bananas and refuses to eat it, so I have just been adding the rice cereal. I am going to get her some pepto and am checking now to see if I have any flagyl. Thank you for your input!

lukaslolamaus
05-01-2015, 09:43 PM
I am interested in getting pepto dosage, my little girl has been suffering from diarrhea for 2 weeks. We ended up buying a microscope to see what's going on. Yesterday we saw pin and hook worms, today only pins. She is currently on penacur and finished also the first round of baycox. I want her feeling better.
Her thread is called baby girl rescued from cat in life threatening questions

Annabelle's papa
05-02-2015, 05:28 AM
I am interested in getting pepto dosage, my little girl has been suffering from diarrhea for 2 weeks. We ended up buying a microscope to see what's going on. Yesterday we saw pin and hook worms, today only pins. She is currently on penacur and finished also the first round of baycox. I want her feeling better.
Her thread is called baby girl rescued from cat in life threatening questions

:)Good Morning CritterMom, I was bumping this for lukaslolamaus.:)

CritterMom
05-02-2015, 05:48 AM
:)Good Morning CritterMom, I was bumping this for lukaslolamaus.:)

I do not have specific dosing. Depending on the size of the squirrel, I usually give 3 or 4 drops (more for an adult of course), and watch. You will know it has gotten through the system when they start pooping BLACK (don't flip out - it is NORMAL). If the diarrhea is still bad I give a little more after 6 or so hours. My biggest concern is not giving so much that it totally blocks them up.

Annabelle's papa
05-02-2015, 05:59 AM
I do not have specific dosing. Depending on the size of the squirrel, I usually give 3 or 4 drops (more for an adult of course), and watch. You will know it has gotten through the system when they start pooping BLACK (don't flip out - it is NORMAL). If the diarrhea is still bad I give a little more after 6 or so hours. My biggest concern is not giving so much that it totally blocks them up.

:)Thank You CritterMom, I believe Lil' Sabrinas weight is around 234 gms, lukaslolamaus will see this sometime this morning.:thumbsup

CritterMom
05-02-2015, 06:32 AM
Oh, then a little more. That isn't a teeny baby! I would give her 0.4cc and see what happens - like I said, if she is showing no signs of slowing down with the poops in 6 or so hours, then give a second, smaller dose (maybe 0.25 t0 0.3cc). Don't forget the black poops - I am trying to save you from a heart attach here!

I am sorry I haven't looked at this thread...have you tried rice chex? Rice is good and they are particularly good for slowing stuff up and drying it out because they are dry - so you have both the dryness of the cereal plus the water absorbing properties that rice normally has anyway working together, all in a little package that most squirrels love (rice chex are Mister P's favorite treat)
and that have, believe it or not, a 3:1 ca:ph ratio. You don't want to raise a squirrel on them but you can feed when they have the runs like this and it will help.

Sometimes their bowels are so torn up by all of that corrosive diarrhea that has passed through that they continue to have the runs even after all the parasites are gone. The only way to stop that is to break the cycle and stop the diarrhea long enough to allow them to heal and work normally. A couple doses of the pepto, rice chex, removal of all fruit and veggies can help a lot. You may want to see if she will take camomile tea too - just the regular Celestial Seasonings stuff is fine (read label to ensure it only has chamomile in it). Add a little honey if you have to. Chamomile slows peristalsis, which is the "caterpillar" action of the muscles in the intestines that move food along. Now you have slowed that and added things to soak up the nasty mucous, etc., in the poop (the pepto and rice). If there is nothing underlying like residual parasites or other problems, this may solve the problem.

lukaslolamaus
05-02-2015, 07:44 AM
Oh, then a little more. That isn't a teeny baby! I would give her 0.4cc and see what happens - like I said, if she is showing no signs of slowing down with the poops in 6 or so hours, then give a second, smaller dose (maybe 0.25 t0 0.3cc). Don't forget the black poops - I am trying to save you from a heart attach here!

I am sorry I haven't looked at this thread...have you tried rice chex? Rice is good and they are particularly good for slowing stuff up and drying it out because they are dry - so you have both the dryness of the cereal plus the water absorbing properties that rice normally has anyway working together, all in a little package that most squirrels love (rice chex are Mister P's favorite treat)
and that have, believe it or not, a 3:1 ca:ph ratio. You don't want to raise a squirrel on them but you can feed when they have the runs like this and it will help.

Sometimes their bowels are so torn up by all of that corrosive diarrhea that has passed through that they continue to have the runs even after all the parasites are gone. The only way to stop that is to break the cycle and stop the diarrhea long enough to allow them to heal and work normally. A couple doses of the pepto, rice chex, removal of all fruit and veggies can help a lot. You may want to see if she will take camomile tea too - just the regular Celestial Seasonings stuff is fine (read label to ensure it only has chamomile in it). Add a little honey if you have to. Chamomile slows peristalsis, which is the "caterpillar" action of the muscles in the intestines that move food along. Now you have slowed that and added things to soak up the nasty mucous, etc., in the poop (the pepto and rice). If there is nothing underlying like residual parasites or other problems, this may solve the problem.

Thank you so much for dosing! I just gave her some pepto with her breakfast and see what happens from here.

UDoWhat
05-02-2015, 09:13 AM
Thanks Crittermom. I thought I had seen a post a while ago about Pepto. I did find a suggested dosing in my notes from another rehabber. I had a baby very similar to your baby a year ago. The dosing from a rehab center that was suggested was 1-2mg /kg. That was calculated on the over the counter, adult , Pepto. I went with the 1mg per kg. so the dosing that Crittermom suggested is great :thumbsup I usually always stay with the lower end dose just to be safe if I am not sure of the med. I am using. (Unless my Vet tells me differently. ) The dosng info I found said it can be given 2-4 times per day. I think I gave only 2 x per day. Not sure why I gave only 2x per day. I need to take better notes. :grin3 I do wish we had some magic formula or go to solution for this diarrhea issue. I know each situation is very different. It can be so frustrating for baby and caregiver. I do believe working together is very helpful. Keep us in the loop for any change or progress. :Love_Icon

beezle-weezle
05-02-2015, 09:53 AM
Gave a dose of pepto. Haven't been able to get my hands on Flagyl yet but I do have lacto bacillus acidophilus. How much can she have. She weighs 250 grams. I have already stopped all fruits and veggies. She gets only Formula (with rice cereal), HHB, Oxbow, and rice Chex (these are her fav.). Is there any other antibiotic that will work? I have a lot of different ones just not Flagyl.

Mommaluvy
05-02-2015, 10:06 PM
Gave a dose of pepto. Haven't been able to get my hands on Flagyl yet but I do have lacto bacillus acidophilus. How much can she have. She weighs 250 grams. I have already stopped all fruits and veggies. She gets only Formula (with rice cereal), HHB, Oxbow, and rice Chex (these are her fav.). Is there any other antibiotic that will work? I have a lot of different ones just not Flagyl.

Flagyl ?

It wont work for worms. Though it does work for giardia but so does the Panacur.

The probiotic.. Just sprinkle some in her formula.

UDoWhat
05-03-2015, 10:51 AM
Flagyl ?

It wont work for worms. Though it does work for giardia but so does the Panacur.

The probiotic.. Just sprinkle some in her formula.

Correct. I was suggesting the Metro/Flagyl for a possible bacterial infection that would not be treated by Panacur. Definitely Panacur for the worms. Just a suggestion since this diarrhea has been ongoing for a while. :dono

Mommaluvy
05-03-2015, 12:06 PM
Correct. I was suggesting the Metro/Flagyl for a possible bacterial infection that would not be treated by Panacur. Definitely Panacur for the worms. Just a suggestion since this diarrhea has been ongoing for a while. :dono

That may be a good idea. I had suggested smztmp for the same reason... Metro would work. :) I did not see it in the post.

kcassidy
05-03-2015, 12:48 PM
Well this is a timely thread. I have 11 squirrels and one of them has had diarrhea for 2 weeks as well. I've tried yogurt and Diastat to no avail.

I can dose with Panacur, but what is the dosage and where do I get it? I have panacur for horses, but I don't think I could get that into the Squee's.

I'll also try the Pepto.

Thanks,

beezle-weezle
05-06-2015, 04:04 PM
Well I have used the Pepto for a few days and her poop looks good while it is in her but as soon as it wears off, poop goes back to snotty looking mess. Yesterday Luna flat out refused to eat her HHB. I wasn't to concerned because I seen her eating the Oxbow I keep in the cage. She refused it again today; to which I told her this was the last time! Tomorrow you will eat your HHB. WELL...her poop today has improved without Pepto. It is not perfect but it is at least formed and not so snotty looking. Has anyone ever heard of a squirrel who can't eat HHB? Should I let her continue with just the Oxbow?

CritterMom
05-06-2015, 04:10 PM
Why don't you let her eat the Oxbow for a few days. If her poop goes completely back to normal, offer her an HHB and see what happens.

Kristi S
05-07-2015, 12:27 AM
...Her poop looks like light grey snot....

I knew I'd seen something about light grey poop recently! Yesterday I read that can be a sign of liver damage. I wonder if some kind of parasite made it to her organs. Sorry to bring up a new potential problem, but I thought it could be important. It is still gray? Blood is not a good sign, of course - I hope that's gone.

I don't know if it was in your other thread about her, it may have been, but I volunteer at a WRC that has treated and released thousands of squirrels, and they say that Pepto Bismol is not effective against diarrhea, perhaps meaning that it's not a cure. They use Diastat for four feedings (in place of formula), and if that doesn't work its time for the vet to take a look.

czarina
05-07-2015, 02:14 AM
As soon as I started reading this thread, and saw the symptoms, and treatments tried, I immediately thought of Flagyl. It is an antibiotic, but it is more widely used for its efficacy with protozoans. Many which live in water. These little one celled battleships can play havic with a GI system

The mucous in her stool, poor baby, her little gut is just miserable. The gut produces mucous to shield the lining of the colon, from whatever is irritating it.
I would try to get some Flagyl as soon as you can.

Also, I cannot say enough good things about Dia-Stat. I have used it multiple times on squirrels and other animals, with excellent results. I took it to my vet when I first got it, so he could check it out, he said it is filled with wonderful ingredients, mostly electrolytes. He was so impressed with it, that they now use it in their office.

Also, I will touch bases on Kristi's excellent observation about the stool color.
Whenever you see light colored fecal matter, you do suspect liver involvement.
Especially clay colored stools. It has to do with the liver not producing biliruben correctly, so the stools become much lighter in these patients. We see it a lot with hepatitis patients.

I do not think your girls liver is involved at this point. I feel sure they are appearing gray, because of the mucous formation, so at this point I wouldn't worry about her little liver.

You have gotten some excellent suggestions in this thread. I hope your wee one is soon doing much better. I will keep you both in my prayers.:Love_Icon

beezle-weezle
05-07-2015, 06:41 AM
The color has improved as the mucus decreased. It is now a dark brown. I have searched everyone I know for Flagyl with no luck. Is there anywhere I can buy it? or is there anything else I can use?

Nancy in New York
05-07-2015, 07:48 AM
The color has improved as the mucus decreased. It is now a dark brown. I have searched everyone I know for Flagyl with no luck. Is there anywhere I can buy it? or is there anything else I can use?


I have Metronidazole.
If you pm me your name and address I will get some in the mail today.

UDoWhat
05-07-2015, 09:04 AM
I am really sorry you are having this trouble with your little one. I have a couple of questions. Does the poo have a strong bad smell? Is this baby lethargic or tucked under? Is it dehydrated due to the ongoing loses of fluid from diarrhea? Does it have runny diarrhea or just soft stool?
Since you have had it on the antibiotics for a long course I would be tempted to switch to Metronidazole (Flagyl). This is the “go to” drug for diarrhea that is not responsive to other medications. Usually, diarrhea with mucous and blood are signs of inflammation of the lining of the intestine. The mucosal lining helps to pass the stool. When that lining is being sluffed off due to extreme diarrhea it lets opportunistic bacteria grow and causes an inflammation in the bowels which more than likely at this stage needs to be treated with a different antibiotic. I might even use something like Pepto- Bismol to help soothe the lining of the intestines. I do not often use Pepto but this diarrhea has gone on for a while now. I have read that the ingredients of Pepto Bismol have anti- inflammatory, mild-antibiotic, antacid and protective qualities. It seems to coat the intestines, protecting it from toxins. I think that “Wild Mammal Babies” may have some dosing info on Pepto or a similar item. I believe CritterMom has also suggested Pepto in the past too. She may know how to dose it properly. PetSmart has a dog version called K.P.A.D. I have used that in the past. Also, I would add lacto bacillus acidophilus to the formula to replace the “good” bacteria that is being lost. Stepnstone has a great baby banana and rice cereal recipe that he adds to formula. I see you have been using just the rice cereal. I will try to find that recipe for you. It has also helped in the past. IDK what really works… but I know it is hard the baby and you too. Just another suggestion. Hope something helps. :Love_Icon

I am still thinking Metro (Flagyl) is the way to go. And yes, Pepto is not a cure for diarrhea but it will help soothe and protect the gut from irritattion. As I said, I do not often use Pepto because it can mask symptoms of diarrhea but I believe the gut of this little baby must be pretty irritated by now and needs some form of coating to help soothe the gut. :Love_Icon

beezle-weezle
05-07-2015, 11:33 AM
I have Metronidazole.
If you pm me your name and address I will get some in the mail today.

Thank you thank you. Sending pm now!

czarina
05-07-2015, 12:30 PM
Nancy is a true angel.:fluff1CM916

She is a gift to all of us.:grouphug

I see UDoWhat was thinking along the same lines as me, and had posted about using Flagyl. I think it is an excellent call. (Especially because I came along later, and basically posted the same suggestion, ha ha)

We just all want to see this little one start feeling better. Poor sweet girl, with the discomfort associated with GI upsets. I am happy that the mucous is starting to slow down. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer before she can be a normal squirrel, and the only worry she'll have is: Do I eat this nut, or try finding a clever hiding spot for it.:grin3

Kristi S
05-07-2015, 06:12 PM
I was just reading the blurb about Dia-Stat on the Fox Valley site, and found it interesting (though not surprising) that the second ingredient was pregelatinized rice flour. (It also contains lactobascillus acidophilus - no surprise there, either!)

It also states, "The use of DIA-STAT in combination with anti-biotic is NOT recommended." This was a surprise. I wonder why? Anyone have any ideas?

CritterMom
05-07-2015, 06:24 PM
I was just reading the blurb about Dia-Stat on the Fox Valley site, and found it interesting (though not surprising) that the second ingredient was pregelatinized rice flour. (It also contains lactobascillus acidophilus - no surprise there, either!)

It also states, "The use of DIA-STAT in combination with anti-biotic is NOT recommended." This was a surprise. I wonder why? Anyone have any ideas?

Likely because of the lactobacillus. You need to carefully time probiotics with antibiotics or the probiotics get killed by the antibiotics and don't work.