Decongestant?

[jackibar]

I have a 10-year-old grey that has no teeth so she's been with us for all this time. About 4 years ago she knocked out her last bottom tooth in a fall and has had a recurring upper respiratory infection ever since, along with a huge pus filled lump on the side of her face. She's been on antibiotics and had the lump lanced but it just keeps coming back. We also sent off a specimen to find the best antibiotic. She also has major congestion and I wondered if it's safe to give a pediatric decongestant and what the dosage would be?

Thanks for any help!

Jacki

[CritterMom]

Where in FL are you located? There is a vet in FL who specializes in tooth issues, and I think that is what you have. She is fantastic - up in Orange Park I believe.

Squirrels can take benadryl. It is more antihistamine than decongestant though.

[Annabelle's papa]

I have a 10-year-old grey that has no teeth so she's been with us for all this time. About 4 years ago she knocked out her last bottom tooth in a fall and has had a recurring upper respiratory infection ever since, along with a huge pus filled lump on the side of her face. She's been on antibiotics and had the lump lanced but it just keeps coming back. We also sent off a specimen to find the best antibiotic. She also has major congestion and I wondered if it's safe to give a pediatric decongestant and what the dosage would be?

Thanks for any help!

Jacki

:)Hi jackibar, !0 years old is outstanding, does your Lil' One have a name, could you post some photos when you get a chance, and when she feels better.:Love_Icon

:)As CritterMom said you should discuss the use of decongestants with you Lil' Girls Doctor, increased heart rate comes to mind. You could also ask her vet about possibly using a small dose of Glucosimine in the future, it hasn't been discussed recently on the Board, however it is effective for treating aging joint tissue and works well as a decongestant.:great

:)How is your 12 year old Flyer doing , well I hope.:Love_Icon

[czarina]

Hi, I also highly recommend the vet crittermom suggested. I was willing to drive 18 hours one way to see her. She is an angel. And, also a dental expert on squirrel teeth. She lectures at our get togethers. Perhaps she could get rid of this returning abcess. I am thinking there must be a piece of root remaining in your girls jaw.

I am hoping the best for your little one. 10 years is very impressive. Theres a lot of love there!

Good luck.

[island rehabber]

clindamycin, sometimes stacked with clavamox, has proven to be especially effective on abcesses and infections in rodents in the area above the neck. For whatever reason, facial abcesses in squirrels are really really tough to kill. I would encourage you to ask your vet about clindamycin if your girl is not on it already.

I;d also say YES! to contacting Dr. Emerson in Florida. She is a miracle worker, and if nothing else you'll find out exactly what you are dealing with. :thumbsup

[jackibar]

Where in FL are you located? There is a vet in FL who specializes in tooth issues, and I think that is what you have. She is fantastic - up in Orange Park I believe.

I'm in Tallahassee... How expensive would that vet be? Don't have much money to spend unfortunately:(

[jackibar]

:)Hi jackibar, !0 years old is outstanding, does your Lil' One have a name, could you post some photos when you get a chance, and when she feels better.:Love_Icon

:)As CritterMom said you should discuss the use of decongestants with you Lil' Girls Doctor, increased heart rate comes to mind. You could also ask her vet about possibly using a small dose of Glucosimine in the future, it hasn't been discussed recently on the Board, however it is effective for treating aging joint tissue and works well as a decongestant.:great

:)How is your 12 year old Flyer doing , well I hope.:Love_Icon

Totally forgot to say her name is Peanut... :)

I had also wondered about the fast heart rate issue. It's just bothering me to see and hear her so congested...

Tiger passed away 2 years ago. Then last year we lost our other two flyers within two weeks of each other - I really think little Rocky was just heartbroken over losing his buddy...

Then our other grey, Muffin, died just last month from very aggressive breast cancer. She was 8.5 and we got her as a baby. So now it's just Peanut - the sweetest squirrel I've ever known (and we've released over 70!)... She constantly wants to be pet and will grab your hand if you pull it away! Going to try to attach a pic showing her abcess...

256433

[HRT4SQRLS]

Whoa :eek that's a bad abscess! That will definitely need stacked Clindamycin and Clavamox AFTER draining and flushing. It usually takes longer than the usual course also ... up to a month.

I assume you do have a vet locally if it has been drained before. What antibiotics have you used in the past. Dr E. IS fantastic but you are pretty far and yes, vets are expensive but I guess you already knew that. :tilt With the proper antibiotics, your vet could probably do this. Has her head been X-rayed? I think it will need to be to rule out a tooth root or foreign body. Someone on the board this week had a similar abscess drained and it was full of pus AND a piece of pecan shell.

Usually sinus issues are related to the teeth so I would definitely want to rule out a tooth root. This type of thing is Dr. Emerson's specialty but you mentioned money and I do think your vet can do it. What do you think?

PS. If you used Baytril before ... It will NOT work, just so you know.

[jackibar]

We do have 1 vet in town that we use for our squirrels... He is very compassionate and caring. He (and we) does believe it's a tooth root but says it's next to impossible to get to those due to the anatomy of squirrels' heads...? Plus, we're concerned about her being able to tolerate a surgery at her age.

We've had her abscess lanced, drained, and cleaned out about 3 times. The past few months, it gets very tight and then she busts it herself and we drain and clean it (saves the $150 at least). Meanwhile she has been on constant antibiotics the whole time.

We've tried (uh oh) Baytril (which did work at first), SMZ/TMP, a combination of those 2, then we had a specimen sent off which showed it was resistant to the SMZ but was responsive to Baytril, so we kept on with that. Most recently he has us using Marbofloxacin, which is a newer, stronger form of Baytril (so now I'm wondering if this won't work either if Baytril doesn't work on these things)...

Have never done the head x-ray because he felt positive it was a tooth root based on when and how this all started. Peanut came to us around 1.5 years old (raised by a non-squirrel person and fed the wrong diet) - she had started to show signs of malnutrition - teeth falling out, etc. She had no top teeth but did have 1 bottom tooth. She knocked the bottom tooth out twice before and it grew back, but this last time it did not grow back. It was right after that that this infection started up... We've been fighting it ever since!

Not totally opposed to trying Dr. Emerson, if she's that good - depending on how much it would cost! But I'm thinking right now at least I'll contact our current vet to see about trying the Clindamycin/Clavamox combination if that works better for these kinds of problems. That is definitely a combination we have not yet tried...

Sweet little Peanut - she is SO tolerant of what all we have to do to her in giving her the meds, cleaning out the abscess, etc.! One night (after several days in a row of us messing with her) my husband was holding her and I was trying to give her the meds, and she literally took both paws and covered her whole face!! It was TOO funny and we both cracked up laughing at her!! I wish we had a video of that :)

Is there a phone number for Dr. Emerson so I could contact her?

[CritterMom]

We do have 1 vet in town that we use for our squirrels... He is very compassionate and caring. He (and we) does believe it's a tooth root but says it's next to impossible to get to those due to the anatomy of squirrels' heads...? Plus, we're concerned about her being able to tolerate a surgery at her age.

We've had her abscess lanced, drained, and cleaned out about 3 times. The past few months, it gets very tight and then she busts it herself and we drain and clean it (saves the $150 at least). Meanwhile she has been on constant antibiotics the whole time.

We've tried (uh oh) Baytril (which did work at first), SMZ/TMP, a combination of those 2, then we had a specimen sent off which showed it was resistant to the SMZ but was responsive to Baytril, so we kept on with that. Most recently he has us using Marbofloxacin, which is a newer, stronger form of Baytril (so now I'm wondering if this won't work either if Baytril doesn't work on these things)...

Have never done the head x-ray because he felt positive it was a tooth root based on when and how this all started. Peanut came to us around 1.5 years old (raised by a non-squirrel person and fed the wrong diet) - she had started to show signs of malnutrition - teeth falling out, etc. She had no top teeth but did have 1 bottom tooth. She knocked the bottom tooth out twice before and it grew back, but this last time it did not grow back. It was right after that that this infection started up... We've been fighting it ever since!

Not totally opposed to trying Dr. Emerson, if she's that good - depending on how much it would cost! But I'm thinking right now at least I'll contact our current vet to see about trying the Clindamycin/Clavamox combination if that works better for these kinds of problems. That is definitely a combination we have not yet tried...

Sweet little Peanut - she is SO tolerant of what all we have to do to her in giving her the meds, cleaning out the abscess, etc.! One night (after several days in a row of us messing with her) my husband was holding her and I was trying to give her the meds, and she literally took both paws and covered her whole face!! It was TOO funny and we both cracked up laughing at her!! I wish we had a video of that :)

Is there a phone number for Dr. Emerson so I could contact her?


http://www.ravenwoodvet.net/our-doctors/

I doubt the Marbofloxacin (or any other floxacin for that matter) is going to do the trick. The Clavamox/Clindamycin will work to clear the infection (the abscess will of course need to be cleaned out thoroughly) but unless the underlying issue is addressed, it will continue to re-occur.

[jackibar]

Just posted a bunch of my Peanut pics under my Profile :)

[jackibar]

http://www.ravenwoodvet.net/our-doctors/

I doubt the Marbofloxacin (or any other floxacin for that matter) is going to do the trick. The Clavamox/Clindamycin will work to clear the infection (the abscess will of course need to be cleaned out thoroughly) but unless the underlying issue is addressed, it will continue to re-occur.

Thanks so much for the info - at least now we might be on the right track with the right antibiotics! I'm just surprised to find that the ones that tested responsive aren't the "right ones" - oh, well. <sigh> I will contact the vet pronto on Monday morning and will keep y'all posted!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks so much for the info - at least now we might be on the right track with the right antibiotics! I'm just surprised to find that the ones that tested responsive aren't the "right ones" - oh, well. <sigh> I will contact the vet pronto on Monday morning and will keep y'all posted!

Jacki,
I'm a Microbiologist so I can answer that question for you. I'm not sure how far they went with the culture. Here's the problem, abscesses from a source like this are polymicrobial. In other words, it's not a single organism that is causing the infection, it's MANY different organisms. As a general rule we only work up 2 or maybe 3 different organisms. In a source like this ... with close proximity to the mouth, all the organisms of the mouth are probable involved in the infection. In a culture like this there could have been 10 different organisms isolated. The question is which 2 or 3 are you going to work up? Which organisms are more significant? We generally report a culture like this as Mixed Bacterial Flora. Working up one organism can give misleading information. You and the vet were under the impression that the Baytril should have worked. That is correct IF that organism was the only one involved. When you treat an infection from an area like this, you should treat with a broad spectrum antibiotics that will cover the organisms most likely from the source. Any infection in close proximity to a mucous membrane (as in the mouth) would likely have anaerobic organisms present. We don't do susceptibilities on anaerobes. They are treated empirically with drugs that will kill anaerobes. That's why we use the Clindamycin. It is an excellent drug for anaerobes. The Clavamox is a broad spectrum antibiotic that works well on organisms of the mouth. This combo has been used before on squirrels and has been shown to be both safe and effective for this type of infection. With deep seated infections like this, the usual course of 7-10 days isn't long enough. It does take longer treatment to completely eradicate the infection. With shorter treatments it usually comes back.

These two drugs should resolve this infection BUT if it doesn't, it means there is a 'cause' that isn't being addressed ... as in a possible tooth root. I hope it isn't that and that the infection will go away on proper treatment. Your vet is correct in that surgery of this type is delicate and shouldn't be undertaken by an inexperienced surgeon. Luckily, that is Dr. Emerson's specialty. I would trust her with any squirrel with this type of procedure. She has operated on squirrels older than yours. BUT, let's hope that it isn't necessary. :peace
I don't know the specifics but I'm sure it's expensive and it is invasive. I would rather NOT ever have to have it done on a squirrel but if I did, she would be the only one I would ever trust. :thumbsup

I agree with CritterMom regarding the Marbofloxacin. The quinolone drugs are not used to treat anaerobic infections.

[jackibar]

That makes total sense to me - thanks so much for the great explanation!! I'm sure my vet will be okay with trying the different antibiotics... We'll most definitely try that first... I'm having eye surgery myself on Monday and again 2 weeks later on the other eye, so it will be tough for a while both physically and financially, but we'll make it.

[jackibar]

UPDATE on our sweet little Peanut!!!! The clindamycin/clavamox combo WORKED WONDERS!!!! Thank y'all so very much for helping me out with this! She is eating like a little horse!! Coming out of her cage and running around the house all the time, has way more "fight" in her when we're trying to give her meds! And that awful abscess is GONE!!! I did post pics of her in my Profile if anyone wants to see other pics, but here's the one I took just the other day showing the side the abscess was on :)

- Jacki

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[CritterMom]

UPDATE on our sweet little Peanut!!!! The clindamycin/clavamox combo WORKED WONDERS!!!! Thank y'all so very much for helping me out with this! She is eating like a little horse!! Coming out of her cage and running around the house all the time, has way more "fight" in her when we're trying to give her meds! And that awful abscess is GONE!!! I did post pics of her in my Profile if anyone wants to see other pics, but here's the one I took just the other day showing the side the abscess was on :)

- Jacki

258222

See that microbiologist person a few posts up? She deserves your thanks. She is the reason we know about and have at least a layperson's understanding of how this combination works, and you are not the first person to benefit from it. I am SO GLAD to see this update!!

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks for the update jackibar. :greatI'm so happy the Peanut has healed from this awful abscess. He is as cute as he can be. :grin2 It's a problem we see much too frequently and I'm happy that there is a treatment that is effective.