Seizures

[LeilaNami]

I have a squirrel here that had a head injury 2 years ago. She used to have small seizures when I first got her due to the injury but I hadn't witnessed any for over a year. A couple weeks ago she had one and tonight she had 2-3 more. She doesn't have any symptoms of MBD, her energy is good, she doesn't act like she's in pain.

Her diet consists of:
HBB
red cabbage
cauliflower
endive
carrot
snap or snow pea
radicchio
one piece of fruit (usually kumquat, apple, or a berry)
zucchini
cucumber
butternut squash

I'm not sure of the cause of the sudden seizures or if they're just a development of the previous head injury. She doesn't have access to sunlight but I was told that as long as she was eating HBB, she shouldn't need vitamin D supplementation. The seizures last about 30 seconds each.

[SammysMom]

Looking at her diet, the seizures should not be dietary. Is there any chance of taking her to a vet? I wonder if she might need anti seizure meds. Where are you? I do have a list of safe vets from a few places around the U.S.

[LeilaNami]

I PMd you!

[LeilaNami]

Wanted to add a little more info: So far I've only witnessed these seizures in early morning and they always start while she's still sleeping. She immediately comes to us for comfort, bruxes awhile, and then goes about her business. She doesn't receive treats very often because she turns into a territorial loon. When she does get a treat, it's typically a small piece of tums, an almond, or if the season is right a pinecone (she hasn't had one in 6 months). She lost control of her bowels during the first seizure but hasn't done so with the ones tonight.

[LeilaNami]

She just had another one.

[HRT4SQRLS]

After a seizure you should give her something sweet to bring her glucose back up. Anything will work ... Molasses, honey, maple syrup, Karo syrup.

They usually love it. The first time I offered a squirrel syrup on a spoon, I started to withdrawn the spoon and the squirrel forcefully grabbed the spoon and took it back. :tilt

[LeilaNami]

After a seizure you should give her something sweet to bring her glucose back up. Anything will work ... Molasses, honey, maple syrup, Karo syrup.

They usually love it. The first time I offered a squirrel syrup on a spoon, I started to withdrawn the spoon and the squirrel forcefully grabbed the spoon and took it back. :tilt

We've been giving her molasses.

I'm not sure if this should be moved to an emergency thread. She's had at least 3 seizures in 4 hours.

[HRT4SQRLS]

It wouldn't hurt to move it to the Emergency section.

From your diet, I know this is not diet related but it wouldn't hurt to give her some calcium just to see how she reacts. At least it's something you CAN do. If it's neurological from the previous trauma I doubt there's much you can do. Do you have a vet? They might be able to recommend a sedative or even seizure meds.

For now I would keep her environment very quiet and dark, with very little stimuli. In her condition, anything can trigger another seizure. My flyer's seizures were triggered by light.

[TubeDriver]

It wouldn't hurt to move it to the Emergency section.

From your diet, I know this is not diet related but it wouldn't hurt to give her some calcium just to see how she reacts. At least it's something you CAN do. If it's neurological from the previous trauma I doubt there's much you can do. Do you have a vet? They might be able to recommend a sedative or even seizure meds.

For now I would keep her environment very quiet and dark, with very little stimuli. In her condition, anything can trigger another seizure. My flyer's seizures were triggered by light.

:goodpost

3 seizures in 4 hours is definitely an emergency! Quiet, darkish room. Keep her calm and bored.

[LeilaNami]

I gave her half a tablet of tums and she ate it readily. She had another seizure after that, though. We took down all her high toys and shelves this morning to prevent any accidental falls. I may have a vet available. Don't know yet.

Does anyone know any meds and doses that might be good for epilepsy? I'm going to explore other options besides epilepsy as well to make sure.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I gave her half a tablet of tums and she ate it readily. She had another seizure after that, though. We took down all her high toys and shelves this morning to prevent any accidental falls. I may have a vet available. Don't know yet.

Does anyone know any meds and doses that might be good for epilepsy? I'm going to explore other options besides epilepsy as well to make sure.

It sounds like you're doing everything possible.
The possibility of a vet is great news. I hope that works out. Sometimes these problems need more than can be offered on a forum. We're here for you to lend support if nothing else. :grouphug

I don't know about seizure meds but pixiepoo does. You might want to send her a PM. Her flyer Pixie is on seizure meds. Her vet is Dr.Emerson and I trust her a lot. She has a lot of experience with squirrels. Through pixiepoo you might get some dosing info.

[SammysMom]

Dr. Emerson also does consults with other vets.

[LeilaNami]

I PMd pixiepoo. I went ahead and made an appointment with a vet for this evening. If anyone knows how to get in contact with pixiepoo faster, I'd greatly appreciate it! I don't know if this vet would want to consult with another.

[RobinTN]

Sometimes an underlying condition can cause seizures. Since she's predisposed bc of old head injury but hasn't had any in a long while, now suddenly several, it's a good chance they could be caused by an infection of some sort.

I really do hope your vet will be willing to consult.

Easier said than done, but try not to stress too badly, because she will pick up on your energy... Deep breath, calm, serene...:grouphug

[LeilaNami]

How would I go about asking her to consult with another vet? I don't know any others willing to treat squirrels so I have no contact information. Should I ask for antibiotics for potential infection?

[RobinTN]

I would just ask the vet if he/she thinks it could be related to an infection, since she's been seizure free for over a year. They should be able to confirm or rule out infection with physical exam. They may also run bloodwork, it might be a good idea if you were to print out baseline blood chem values to take with you. Most vets wouldn't have a clue what normal readings are for a squirrel. I'll see if I can find it & post a link.

see post 5 in this thread

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?40303-Normal-Blood-Chemistry-Values

[HRT4SQRLS]

I think you're sorta at this vets mercy to start with. I would feel her out to see how willing she is to work with you OR another vet. If she has no experience regarding this she might be glad to accept a consult from a colleague.

She might actually have experience with seizures in other animals and be willing to consult on dosing for squirrels. I wouldn't discount her knowledge. I would go in positive and let her know your willingness and the extent to which you are willing to go for your squirrel. That does vary from person to person so it will help you both to have a common ground.

I will send you in a PM the contact info for Dr. E. She is a lovely person and has consulted many times with vets across the country about squirrels.

[HRT4SQRLS]

One other thing, I had a cat years ago that out of the blue had a major seizure. It was so bad it left her with a permanent head tilt. I rushed her to the vet. He was very reluctant to put her on seizure meds, I guess because it's permanent and of course those meds do cause issues long term.

He suggested we try something that had no basis in the literature as a treatment for seizures. He gave her a steroid shot once a week for a month just in case there might be some sort of inflammation in the brain that would resolve. I don't know if it helped or not but she never had another seizure and she lived many years after that. It was really the 'out of the box' thinking I needed. I was glad she didn't have to go on meds.

Of course, I'm not suggesting this as a treatment for your squirrel but I would listen to anything the vet has to offer.

[LeilaNami]

Thank you guys! I printed out the blood chemistry values to bring with me. So far the fuzzbutt is acting as normal as ever and no more seizures since that last one.

[LeilaNami]

Back from the vet. She also believes the seizures are related to the previous head trauma. She didn't really want to prescribe me antiseizure medication or do blood work quite yet so she gave me diazepam to be given as needed (to prevent multi-seizure episodes) and TMS to cover any possible infection-related causes. If the diazepam doesn't work, she will do blood work and/or consider several drug options for epilepsy.

[HRT4SQRLS]

That sounds like a good plan LN. You can always go to the next step if needed. That must be standard procedures to not jump to the anti-seizure drugs right away. I know my vet didn't want to prescribe them either. I'm glad you found a vet. :tilt

Good luck to you and your baby! :thumbsup

[LeilaNami]

Thanks for the help! I will update if anything happens.

[SammysMom]

That sounds like a great plan! Prayers, prayers and more prayers...:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[RobinTN]

Sounds like you found a good vet... She's willing to work with you, but conservative enough not to immediately order every expensive test in the book. A good mix!

[LeilaNami]

She's definitely a good vet and openly tells me if she doesn't have a lot of experience with something. I greatly appreciate that because then I know to double check other sources and make sure I'm doing the right thing. She treats conservatively and I also appreciate that because my money gets sucked out of my wallet faster than someone opening the airlock.

[Kristi S]

My goodness, that must have been scary for both you and your poor girl!

Seizures can sometimes be triggered by high blood sugar, as well as low. This has been shown, for instance, in non-diabetic (and diabetic) rats. Unless you think she had low blood sugar to begin with, you might want to be careful about adding too much sugar too fast. Just a thought.

(High blood sugar is especially likely to cause seizures in some types of brain damage, just for future reference.)

Diazepam (Valium) is usually used only on a short-term basis for seizure control, which your vet clearly understands, since she didn't prescribe it to be taken continuously. The nice thing is that it works fast, so I'm not saying it's wrong to use it here, but it seems quite strange to give it "as needed," since that means waiting for a seizure to happen, and being aware of it when it does for it to be effective.

The vet probably told you this, but it may also cause sedation and sometimes lack of coordination, so if you see these things, that may be what is responsible.

I think it's highly likely the seizures are due to the brain trauma, and the fact that she has had so many suggests epilepsy and the need for maintenance treatment. It's common in humans for seizures to start showing up a year or two after brain injury, with none until then. The treatment usually includes anticonvulsants (anti-epileptics); there is a wide variety of them to try, including ones that have few side effects. I wonder if Lamictal can be used in squirrels - it's a good, safe one in humans (I was on it for years, though not for epilepsy). Don't despair! Though seizures can be dangerous, in most cases they can be controlled.

[LeilaNami]

My goodness, that must have been scary for both you and your poor girl!

Seizures can sometimes be triggered by high blood sugar, as well as low. This has been shown, for instance, in non-diabetic (and diabetic) rats. Unless you think she had low blood sugar to begin with, you might want to be careful about adding too much sugar too fast. Just a thought.

(High blood sugar is especially likely to cause seizures in some types of brain damage, just for future reference.)

Diazepam (Valium) is usually used only on a short-term basis for seizure control, which your vet clearly understands, since she didn't prescribe it to be taken continuously. The nice thing is that it works fast, so I'm not saying it's wrong to use it here, but it seems quite strange to give it "as needed," since that means waiting for a seizure to happen, and being aware of it when it does for it to be effective.

The vet probably told you this, but it may also cause sedation and sometimes lack of coordination, so if you see these things, that may be what is responsible.

I think it's highly likely the seizures are due to the brain trauma, and the fact that she has had so many suggests epilepsy and the need for maintenance treatment. It's common in humans for seizures to start showing up a year or two after brain injury, with none until then. The treatment usually includes anticonvulsants (anti-epileptics); there is a wide variety of them to try, including ones that have few side effects. I wonder if Lamictal can be used in squirrels - it's a good, safe one in humans (I was on it for years, though not for epilepsy). Don't despair! Though seizures can be dangerous, in most cases they can be controlled.

Hi Kristi! Yes, I do need to give diazepam after a seizure already occurs but the vet said that since she has only had two attacks, one with a single seizure and today's multiple seizures, she is not sure yet that it's epilepsy that needs preventative medication. The diazepam is strictly for preventing multiple seizure episodes provided the seizures remain few and far between. If she continues having frequent seizures, she will do the blood work and also consider prescribing anticonvulsants. She listed off a few drugs as possibilities for that and I *think* Lamictal was one of them. I know phenobarbital was another and I can't remember the third.

My dog used to do this but he had a seizure maybe a couple times year and since it was so infrequent, I never needed to give him preventative medication for it. I believe she's trying to determine if this might be the case here, too.

Thank you for the information you've given me! One seizure I can handle and is reasonable to expect from time to time but I wasn't sure what to do with myself after so many in a short amount of time!

[Kristi S]

Technically, any time there are multiple seizures, it's called epilepsy. There are different kinds of seizures, some more dangerous than others. Your case is different from, for example, HRT4SQRLS's cat, which only had one, and no obvious reason for it - but which must have been very scary itself, especially considering it had permanent effects! It sounds like your dog had epilepsy, but I suppose in animals the risks of mild/moderate forms aren't as great: they aren't going to have one while driving, for instance.

In humans,
"Late post-traumatic seizures: A seizure more than seven days after a brain injury is called a late post-traumatic seizure. About 80% of people who have a late post-traumatic seizure will have another seizure (epilepsy).
.... More than half the people with epilepsy will have this problem for their whole lives." (http://www.msktc.org/tbi/factsheets/Seizures-After-Traumatic-Brain-Injury)

How long were the seizures, and what were the symptoms? Are you around enough to know when she's having a seizure? Can you think of any changes in diet or surroundings that might have precipitated these? Did she have any seizures right after the brain injury? What kind of injury was it, and how was it treated?

Phenobarbital is in the same class of drugs as diazepam, though it is a more common one for ongoing treatment of epilepsy (I think it's because it's not quite as addictive).

Was just reading more about the way diazepam is used in humans and dogs for seizure treatment. Because the oral dose takes at least 40 minutes to be effective, to treat long seizures or clusters of seizures it is administered rectally in liquid form, where it acts in 5-15 minutes. Is that how the vet prescribed it? Oral dosing where cluster seizures occur elevate the risk of choking.

All drugs have risks of side effects, of course. Many of them disappear within a few weeks of starting a med, and those that are dangerous are usually rare (though some risks might increase over time). The side effects have to be weighed against the dangers of a seizure leading to an accident, or choking if it happens during eating.

Anyway, just a few things to consider. Hopefully, this bunch of seizures is the last bunch she has!

[LeilaNami]

Technically, any time there are multiple seizures, it's called epilepsy. There are different kinds of seizures, some more dangerous than others. Your case is different from, for example, HRT4SQRLS's cat, which only had one, and no obvious reason for it - but which must have been very scary itself, especially considering it had permanent effects! It sounds like your dog had epilepsy, but I suppose in animals the risks of mild/moderate forms aren't as great: they aren't going to have one while driving, for instance.

In humans,
"Late post-traumatic seizures: A seizure more than seven days after a brain injury is called a late post-traumatic seizure. About 80% of people who have a late post-traumatic seizure will have another seizure (epilepsy).
.... More than half the people with epilepsy will have this problem for their whole lives." (http://www.msktc.org/tbi/factsheets/Seizures-After-Traumatic-Brain-Injury)

How long were the seizures, and what were the symptoms? Are you around enough to know when she's having a seizure? Can you think of any changes in diet or surroundings that might have precipitated these? Did she have any seizures right after the brain injury? What kind of injury was it, and how was it treated?

Phenobarbital is in the same class of drugs as diazepam, though it is a more common one for ongoing treatment of epilepsy (I think it's because it's not quite as addictive).

Was just reading more about the way diazepam is used in humans and dogs for seizure treatment. Because the oral dose takes at least 40 minutes to be effective, to treat long seizures or clusters of seizures it is administered rectally in liquid form, where it acts in 5-15 minutes. Is that how the vet prescribed it? Oral dosing where cluster seizures occur elevate the risk of choking.

All drugs have risks of side effects, of course. Many of them disappear within a few weeks of starting a med, and those that are dangerous are usually rare (though some risks might increase over time). The side effects have to be weighed against the dangers of a seizure leading to an accident, or choking if it happens during eating.

Anyway, just a few things to consider. Hopefully, this bunch of seizures is the last bunch she has!

I want to clarify that I said "epilepsy that needed preventative medication", not that it wasn't epilepsy. :grin3

To answer your questions: Seizures were about 20 seconds each. It was a partial seizure that affected mostly if not solely the right side of her body which was also the side where she was injured. Eyelid flutters, leg kicks, 1 time she lost bladder control. Yes, she had the same type of seizures directly after the head injury which lessened and has been seizure free up until a couple weeks ago. Treatment for the injury was an antibiotic course and rest. This was under direction of a wildlife vet. Yes, we are around her the majority of the day and all night.

She wants me to give diazepam orally but she has stated it works quickly even when done that way. The dose is 0.05cc of whatever concentration she gave me. I'm not around the bottle right now to check.

She hasn't had one since the last time I mentioned it so hopefully she stays that way. :Love_Icon

On a side note: she really really really hates TMS

[Kristi S]

I want to clarify that I said "epilepsy that needed preventative medication", not that it wasn't epilepsy.

Oh, sorry, I should have known!

That's encouraging that she hasn't had any more. And that they are only partial seizures, and of short duration. You've had experience with animals with seizures in the past, so you're ahead of the game - she's a lucky girl in lots of ways (sorry, I must have missed her name!)!!!:):w00t

[LeilaNami]

She had her first seizure since the vet visit just now. Diazepam was given and so was molasses. It lasted for about 20 seconds. She jerked around in a clockwise circle.

[LeilaNami]

She had her first seizure since the vet visit just now. Diazepam was given and so was molasses. It lasted for about 20 seconds. She jerked around in a clockwise circle.

She unfortunately has had two more seizures (one yesterday morning and one just now). I'm calling the vet today since I'm concerned with the frequency she's having them even though diazepam is helping a little.

[Kristi S]

I'm sorry, I missed your post of 3/30, when she had another seizure. What a shame! How disappointing for you. Yep, time to get that little lady to the vet and on some maintenance anticonvulsants, perhaps.

So, she's seizing on the same side as her injury? Huh. I would expect it to be on the opposite side. Sometimes I really wish I'd become a doctor, as I wanted to all through childhood - then I might be of some real help around here.

[TubeDriver]

The diazepam is given PRN (after the fact)? I would talk to the vet about starting regular daily anti-convulsant therapy at least for a month or two. Then if the seizures stop, you can taper off and see if they come back or not.

Good luck! :grouphug



She unfortunately has had two more seizures (one yesterday morning and one just now). I'm calling the vet today since I'm concerned with the frequency she's having them even though diazepam is helping a little.

[Kristi S]

PRN means "as needed," but you probably knew that.

[LeilaNami]

Thanks everyone! I called the vet and we will be putting her on phenobarbital. She had yet another two seizures since I posted last (one this morning and one this evening) so I'm hoping this will help.

[LeilaNami]

Another update: The vet wants to see if the seizures were transient so in a week we are going to start weaning her off the medication. She doesn't think they were transient but doesn't want to continue without at least trying it.

[LeilaNami]

Just a quick update and question:

She lasted all of two days into the weaning process so we have her back on pheno. Unfortunately she is exhibiting side effects such as excessive hunger (and therefore she's getting pudgy) and she doesn't play like she used to. I'm not sure if it's because she's chubby and it's hot so she's uncomfortable or if she's depressed (which is also a side effect). I spoke with the vet and she offered the option of switching her to Zonisamide which has fewer side effects and is being used more in dogs now. The catch is that the therapeutic dose will have to be estimated but she doesn't think it will hurt anything. Does anyone have experience with zonisamide in squirrels?

To add: I've tried offering her more time outside of her room however it seems she gets overstimulated sometimes and it causes a seizure, even on pheno.