need help badly!!!!

[dragonwcc]

Hello i am Ken, and Tuesday of last week we had two babies come down out of a tree, assumed orphaned, we took them in and started doing what we thought was best for them, we contacted a vet and the assistant there recommended kitten formula, and rat/rodent food, when we took them in they were ALOT more active than they are now, they have lost alot of weight and are very lathargic, and they have started dragging their hind end on the ground when they walk around, and their privet area stays wet all the time, we have weighed them 3 times each, as follows A-18th-108g 21st-87g 22nd-124g
B- 18th-105g 21st-80g 22nd-85g we stopped formula because we read that puppy formula is alot better, but i am afraid they are dehydrated, so i have went with the 1tsp sugar to one cup water ratio and have been giving them that for about 4 hours now, about once an hour, i need to know what to do, i am afraid i am losing them =(

[dragonwcc]

their bottoms just drip clear/yellowish drips when you hold them, please help im very worried, i have just got over working 72 hours this week end and had left my sister and niece in charge of feeding them etc, and i dont know what to do

[SammysMom]

You do need to be sure they are hydrated. Can you text me a pic of them? I will post it for you 203 214-7427
Definitely powdered Esbilac puppy formula. Not Esbilac goats milk puppy. Just powdered puppy formula with prebiotics and probiotics.

[stepnstone]

What are you feeding with?
Do you hear any "clicking" when they breathe?

[dragonwcc]

yes i will send you photos asap

[SammysMom]

I will be going to bed shortly, so if you could send now it would be good. It's after midnight here...sorry

[dragonwcc]

just sent them, i am feeding them with a syringe i picked up from the vet when i bought the can of formula

[dragonwcc]

and no i do not hear any clicking noises when they breathe

[SammysMom]

They do look dehydrated. Getting fluid into them should be the first order of business. Then getting them onto the right formula.

[SammysMom]

The first one who looks sort of rumpled is the one that looks dehydrated. It causes their fur to look spikey.

[LaurelLynn]

their bottoms just drip clear/yellowish drips when you hold them, please help im very worried, i have just got over working 72 hours this week end and had left my sister and niece in charge of feeding them etc, and i dont know what to do

I'm not sure where you are located, but maybe admin or another senior member nearby knows someone who rehab close to you?

[dragonwcc]

i live in north west georgia

[SammysMom]

Stop the formula you are giving and hydrate them. They need the proper formula. Esbilac puppy formula. The powdered kind with probiotics and prebiotics. You will want to hydrate them to get the other stuff out of their systems and stop the diarrhea anyway. Dehydration will kill them and diarrhea is the worst cause of dehydration.

[dragonwcc]

how often should i give the water/sugar solution, and how much? and how long will it take to get the other out of thier system, and should i allow them to eat the rat/rodent food?

[stepnstone]

Stop the formula you are giving and hydrate them. They need the proper formula. Esbilac puppy formula. The powdered kind with probiotics and prebiotics. You will want to hydrate them to get the other stuff out of their systems and stop the diarrhea anyway. Dehydration will kill them and diarrhea is the worst cause of dehydration.

What SM is telling you is absolute!!
Not being hydrated they can not process formula.
Kitten formula is another if not the reason for the water runs.
Are your babies on heat?

[dragonwcc]

yes they are on heat, we have a heating pad under the back corner of the cage

[SammysMom]

I would hydrate them as much as they will take every couple of hours. I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers. Are you close to Chattanooga? We do have a vet that we know is safe in Chattanooga. I will get back to you tomorrow morning. Keep up the hydration.

[dragonwcc]

i live 45 minutes away from chatt. and ill keep up the hydrating!

[Shewhosweptforest]

You should start them out A who weighs roughly 120 g with 6 ml/cc's divided into three feedings the first day so three 2 ml feedings...the second and third day 3 mL's given in three feedings ...so three feedings of 1 ml day 2 and three. B who weighs roughly 80 g, should get three feedings of 1.3 ml the first day...and 0.7 ml's three times a day, day 2 and 3. Feed formula inbetween :thumbsupI think you should dilute their formula 50 %... So half formula half water or the hydration fluid :thumbsup I'm hoping some more experienced rehabber's come on....the diarrhea you are describing is serious :dono it definitely needs to be addressed ....good luck and thank you so much for saving and helping these orphans :bowdown :thankyou

[SammysMom]

For tonight just hydration no other formula until you get the esbilac. Try for 6-7 every 4 hours for 120g and about 4-5cc every 4 hours for the 80g for tonight.

[stepnstone]

For tonight just hydration no other formula until you get the esbilac. Try for 6-7 every 4 hours for 120g and about 4-5cc every 4 hours for the 80g for tonight.

:thumbsup

[dragonwcc]

just fed them, setting my alarm for 5am :tap hope they make it though the night

[SammysMom]

Lots of rubbing and cuddling and soft fleece wont hurt either. A little love goes a long way:grouphug we are here for you. Would you like us to try to find a rehabber for them?

[dragonwcc]

im afraid i am not really in a position to really travel to a rehaber im afraid, so i don't really think i could carry them to one, unless it was very very close, tomorrow i am going to buy the formula if i can find it at any of the local vets/pet store, i live in a pretty small town, only one pet store and 4 vets, surely one has some

[Annabelle's papa]

im afraid i am not really in a position to really travel to a rehaber im afraid, so i don't really think i could carry them to one, unless it was very very close, tomorrow i am going to buy the formula if i can find it at any of the local vets/pet store, i live in a pretty small town, only one pet store and 4 vets, surely one has some

:) Hi dragonwcc, I understand your small town predicament because we are 30 miles from a decent pet supply store ourselves. Is there a Tractor Supply Co. in your area, I ask because most of them carry the Esbilac formula and it wouldn't be as expensive as it would at a pet store. I've also been able to get small syringes from our Walgreen's, you can tell them you found a small kitten you are trying to feed. They even have the small syringes they use to mix medicine and they are red in color, you will need to have as many as you can get.:great Above all we live in Georgia and you don't want to tell anyone you have Squirrel's because they can be confiscated by the DNR.

Stay on throughout the day tomorrow and keep everyone updated, you're doing the best you can and everyone know's that. Reread all the good advice you've received, and don't hesitate to ask about anything.:thumbsup

[HRT4SQRLS]

I noticed that your babies have dehydration WITH diarrhea.
I would use the hydration recipe with the salt added for electrolytes.

Here is the recipe:

Hydration Fluid
1 cup warm water
1/4 tsp salt (teaspoon)
1 tbsp sugar (tablespoon)

**last in the frig 72 hours

[dragonwcc]

we all made it through the night, yes we have a tractor supply! also poop is a little more firm but still bad runny

[Nancy in New York]

we all made it through the night, yes we have a tractor supply! also poop is a little more firm but still bad runny

Sorry to bombard you with so much info.
What HRT4SQRLS said is so true. If diarrhea with
dehydration you need the hydration formula she suggested.

ALSO, if you can get the POWDERED PUPPLY ESBILAC,
you need the one with probiotics. It will either say it on the top
of the can in a blue banner. However, some have said that they
cannot find the blue banner one........SO look at the third ingredient
on the back of the can, and it should say DRIED WHEY PROTEIN.
That's the can you want.

[Nancy in New York]

Are you anywhere near Dalton? I am looking for members to help you.

[Spanky]

I am not really close enough (little over 2 hours) to be much help unless the finder is looking to have someone take them and care for them. If that is the case and no one is closer, just let me know...

[Spanky]

Here is the ingredient list on the "good formulation"... lately it seems they may have a new label that does not have the blue banner that reads "Now with prebiotics and probiotics."

253979

[dragonwcc]

i am 20 minutes from Dalton, i am going in a few hours to the local tractor supply to try and find the powdered formula

[Nancy in New York]

i am 20 minutes from Dalton, i am going in a few hours to the local tractor supply to try and find the powdered formula

OK I am emailing them now.
Would you be willing to have someone take them?
If not, perhaps she could help with some supplies.

[kcassidy]

I really hope someone can come get these babies.

Thank you so much for trying. Once they are doing better you are going to see why we fight for every little one to come on the board.

We need to prepare a presentation and see if we can get invited to some vet conferences. They are killing babies (not you Dragon) professionals telling folks like you and I the absolute wrong thing.

I know you are probably overwhelmed right now, but I didn't see anyone answer the question about rodent food. These babies are very young babies, they won't eat anything but formula for another 1.5 - 2 months. So no worries about that type of food.

Thanks and I hope you get sorted.

Thanks,

Kim

[Annabelle's papa]

:goodpost

[dragonwcc]

ok, i have the proper formula, the babies have been being rehydrated for 13 hours now, they are now climbing all over their cage, do i mix the formula as per instructions on the can?

[Spanky]

Maybe start with 3:1 dilution for the first couple feedings, then the full strength 2:1 mix. It best to mix it up in advance and allow it to sit in the fridge a few hours to fully dissolve. It's okay to give the formula right after mixing the first time. Maybe mix both some 3:1 and 2:1 strengths. Don't mix more than they will eat in 24 hours though.

Usually feed them between 5 - 7% of their weight, so at 90GM that would be about 1.8ML - 6.3ML per feeding.

Edit: And make sure the formula is warm, very warm, when feeding....

[kcassidy]

YAY great news!!!! How is their diarrhea situation?

[kcassidy]

ok, i have the proper formula, the babies have been being rehydrated for 13 hours now, they are now climbing all over their cage, do i mix the formula as per instructions on the can?

I usually start new intakes on 3:1 for a feeding, then 2:1 and by the next day 1:1, others might have a different theory, but so far all mine have always done okay. Of course you need to monitor poop and belly to make sure it is being digested correctly.

What nipple/syringe do you have? Have you seen photos of how to feed correctly and the correct tools? If not, we can post for you.

[RobinTN]

Maybe start with 3:1 dilution for the first couple feedings, then the full strength 2:1 mix. It best to mix it up in advance and allow it to sit in the fridge a few hours to fully dissolve. It's okay to give the formula right after mixing the first time. Maybe mix both some 3:1 and 2:1 strengths. Don't mix more than they will eat in 24 hours though.

Usually feed them between 5 - 7% of their weight, so at 90GM that would be about 1.8ML - 6.3ML per feeding.

Edit: And make sure the formula is warm, very warm, when feeding....

90 x .05 = 4.5
90 x .07 = 6.3

correct amount for a 90gm baby is 4.5-6.3ml

I'm sorry Spanky I know that was just a typo, just demonstrating how to do the calculation...

[dragonwcc]

mixing the formula now, as i was typing that last post, in that 45 seconds i wasnt watching them, i turn around and they are both on top of their cage, oh brother.... so a 3-1 ratio, alright preparing it now, their hind ends are no longer wet, i havent seen one poop in the last hour or two, will inform on that asap

[RobinTN]

Dragon, since you have a scale you can figure the amount to feed more exactly, and adjust as they grow by using this simple equation

WEIGHT(grams) x .05(5%) = minimum range (in ML or CCs)

WEIGHT(grams) x .07(7%) = maximum

[Spanky]

90 x .05 = 4.5
90 x .07 = 6.3

correct amount for a 90gm baby is 4.5-6.3ml

I'm sorry Spanky I know that was just a typo, just demonstrating how to do the calculation...

Thanks for catching my bad post and correcting it correcting that Robin, I should have double checked my post! :bowdown

[RobinTN]

Great news on the increased activity... Getting them hydrated & on the right formula will make all the difference in the world :great

[dragonwcc]

boy they loved that formula!, looks like its nap time now, should i give more water/sugar/salt in about two hours, and two hours after that another formula feeding?
and thank you all so so so much, its night and day the diffrence in them from last night to today!

[Nancy in New York]

I usually start new intakes on 3:1 for a feeding, then 2:1 and by the next day 1:1, others might have a different theory, but so far all mine have always done okay. Of course you need to monitor poop and belly to make sure it is being digested correctly.

What nipple/syringe do you have? Have you seen photos of how to feed correctly and the correct tools? If not, we can post for you.

Kim, you don't mean you do 1 part water to 1 part Esbilac, do you? :)

[Nancy in New York]

boy they loved that formula!, looks like its nap time now, should i give more water/sugar/salt in about two hours, and two hours after that another formula feeding?
and thank you all so so so much, its night and day the diffrence in them from last night to today!
YES continue to hydrate in between feedings.
Do you want us to try to find a rehabber to take these babies?
I have reached out to a member who is 20 mi from you, but I have not heard
back yet.

[dragonwcc]

i think i am wanting to rehab these myself...i would love to learn from it to be able to help others locally if/when more are found, i have put a lot of time and emotions into these little fellers and i want to see it through

[kcassidy]

Kim, you don't mean you do 1 part water to 1 part Esbilac, do you? :)

Ugh what was I thinking :) I should have said 3:1, 3:1, then full strength, which is 2:1.... DUH DUH DUH.

I have the feeding chart cheatsheet, should I upload it for Dragon?

[RobinTN]

i think i am wanting to rehab these myself...i would love to learn from it to be able to help others locally if/when more are found, i have put a lot of time and emotions into these little fellers and i want to see it through

I appreciate your caring & concern for these sweeties, they can steal your heart so quickly! That's the way I got into squirrels myself, and this board is the BEST... I see babies being saved every week by the combined knowledge & experience being shared here. Never hesitate to ask questions, and read up on old threads, esp in baby care & nutrition forums. :Welcome to TSB

[Nancy in New York]

Ugh what was I thinking :) I should have said 3:1, 3:1, then full strength, which is 2:1.... DUH DUH DUH.

I have the feeding chart cheatsheet, should I upload it for Dragon?

That chart would be perfect! Thank you! :hug
Hey, you have 9 babies, so you are entitled to a DUH moment.

[kcassidy]

i think i am wanting to rehab these myself...i would love to learn from it to be able to help others locally if/when more are found, i have put a lot of time and emotions into these little fellers and i want to see it through

Dragon,

We can always use more rehabbers, but you have to be sure you are doing what is best for the babies, even if that means giving them up. I'm not saying that you are not the Best solution, but want to be sure you understand how time consuming & costly this is. You also need to remember you will be RELEASING them when they reach the right age. No pet squirrels, okay, even if you are worried about how cruel nature can be, they are wild animals and need to be free in the trees.

Diet is so important we can't stress that enough. I've seen so many babies killed by good intentions and it wasn't necessary. Again, not pointing fingers at you, I'm just being upfront and direct.

You will need to spend money to do this right, you need the right formula, which won't be Esbilac for the whole time. I switch when their eyes open to the Fox Valley formula, I also buy Henry's Healthy Blocks which has the right vitamins and minerals. They need fleece, a cage and a nest box, if you can do all this, then YAY you would be all set. The outdoor release cage conversation can come a bit later. :)

Are you ready to do all of this? So far you are doing really good.

If you decide you will accept this mission, take Nancy up on he offer to contact the nearby Rehabber. it sure wouldn't hurt to have some one close by who can help, if you do decide to raise them yourself.

By the way, excellent job on turning these kids around so fast, you deserve major kudo's for this.

[kcassidy]

254013

[dragonwcc]

alright this evenings weigh in is 103g and 76g, which is quite a large drop in weight, though they feel heavier to me, i think the scale i am using is bad for the job, its a tiny scale i use for coin collecting, its extremely hard to get them to stay on the little scale part, but they are TONS more active, we had to modify the cage because ever 30 seconds they were getting out of it, i have them sleeping in a shirt on my bed as im typing, we are cleaning out the cage and washing the nesting rags, they are doing so much better, also, after talking it over with my family we have decided we are going to rehab them ourselves, we are working out a feeding schedule etc etc. and by that chart i am feeding the smaller one 4.5CC and the larger one 5.5cc each feeding, with 4-5cc of rehydration liquid in between each feeding. question, do i stop formula at night but continue re-hydration liquid?

[Nancy in New York]

alright this evenings weigh in is 103g and 76g, which is quite a large drop in weight, though they feel heavier to me, i think the scale i am using is bad for the job, its a tiny scale i use for coin collecting, its extremely hard to get them to stay on the little scale part, but they are TONS more active, we had to modify the cage because ever 30 seconds they were getting out of it, i have them sleeping in a shirt on my bed as im typing, we are cleaning out the cage and washing the nesting rags, they are doing so much better, also, after talking it over with my family we have decided we are going to rehab them ourselves, we are working out a feeding schedule etc etc. and by that chart i am feeding the smaller one 4.5CC and the larger one 5.5cc each feeding, with 4-5cc of rehydration liquid in between each feeding. question, do i stop formula at night but continue re-hydration liquid?

NO you cannot stop formula at night.
TSB had a gathering this past weekend.
There was fantastic information on how to properly hydrate
a squirrel AND feed them.
However, I did NOT attend. :Cry
BUT I will alert some members that did attend and have them explain how
to hydrate while still feeding. They go hand in hand, not one or the other.
I will find someone now, though it may take a while for them to respond, I'm
sure you will get help on this asap. So please be patient. :hug

[RobinTN]

I'm seriously questioning the accuracy of your scale. You can get one for under $20 at WalMart in the kitchen aids section. Slimline digital scale by Mainstays. It's got a button on the back to switch it over to grams. I set a small plastic basket or tupperware on it, then zero it out, then add a baby. The container help keep active littles corralled up long enough to weigh:grin3

[Nancy in New York]

OK I just put out an SOS in the gathering thread for anyone
that attended to please come here and explain the new hydration protocol.
Hang on, or check back later. I'm sure you will have an answer before you have
to worry about night feeding and hydration.

[BigNibbler]

THIS IS WHAT NANCY MAY BE REFERRING TO.
This is not new. It is simply a reminder of what everyone has been taught for years at all the wildlife symposiums. The quick calculation was perhaps Erica Miller's shortcut some years ago to make it simple.

Listen - 10% don't seem like much. But
THAT's ALL THERE IS WHEN IT COMES TO WATER !!!
ANYTHING MORE THAN A BIT OVER TEN PERCENT LOSS RESULTS IN DEATH!!!
When you feel thirsty, that is only ONE PERCENT !
One percent and you already feel thirsty! Get it.

At 5% the baby will not feel like eating fully and will get picky, tentative, play with the food.
5-7% you will get very little urine, and lethargy
8-10% is dry, tacky mucous membranes slow skin return and spiky fur.
Like its rubbed backwards from rear to head.

That is why their weight is important.
Too much, burdens their digestive track and creates bloat. But too little kills!

If a baby is dehydrated, each day it still needs the normal amount of fluids PLUS ADDITIONAL fluid to over the course of THREE DAYS catch up on the dehydration.

You cannot feed the babies if they are dehydrated. Their organs are not working right.
Once they are hydrated for the first day, then they need nutrition.

Nutrition comes from formula.
Which should include their daily maintenance fluid.
In ADDITION and BETWEEN MEALS - THREE TIMES A DAY you give them HYDRATION FLUID. Which must quickly help overcome their lack of water.
Fluids are required for appetite, for recovery, for gastro intestinal function, for normal kidney and circulatory function.
If a baby has been dehydrated, it will not recover properly if only switched to correct fluid amount – amount that they would normally be maintained on.
At first you must also give the baby REPLACEMENT FLUIDS to replace what was missing.
It’s like catching up when you are late, you have to move at the normal speed plus more to make up the difference.

Maintenance fluid is usually 5% of baby’s body weight.
Fluid is measured in Milliliters and weight is measure in Grams.
So for a 100 gram baby you would feed 5 milliliters in volume measure 5 cubic centimeters.
NOW FOLLOW THIS:
REPLACEMENT FLUIDS ARE ALSO AN ADDITIONAL FIVE PERCENT THE FIRST DAY.
And continued at half that amount for two more days.
So that is 1st day 5% ADDITIONAL FOR A TOTAL OF 10 %
And the second and third day are 2.5% additional for a total of 7.5% daily.

You do not give all the fluids at one time. They must not get over filled.
You distribute it over three servings each day.
A QUICK CALCULATION IS TEN PERCENT THE FIRST DAY OVER THREE SERVINGS IS 3.3%
AND THE NEXT TWO DAYS AT 2.5% BECAUSE THREE FEEDINGS OF 2.5% = THE 7.5% TOTAL FOR THE DAY.
STARTING DAY FOUR YOU CONTINUE AT FIVE PERCENT.
YOU CAN GIVE A BIT MORE BUT NOT LESS.

THE FIRST DAY SHOULD JUST BE FLUIDS.
BUT AFTER THAT START INTRODUCING FORMULA.
DILUTE IT ¼ NORMAL STRENGHT FOR FIRST TWO FEEDINGS,
THEN INCREASE TO HALF, AND THREE QUARTERS FOR SUBSEQUENT TWO FEEDINGS.
UNTIL FULL FORMULA WHICH IS PROPERLY MIXED AS DIRECTED ON PACKAGE.
IMPORTANT: FLUIDS MUST BE BABY TEMPERATURE. SQUIRRELS ARE ABOUT 100 DEGREES.
A LITTLE WARMER IS BETTER THAN A LITTLE COLDER.

forgive any typos.. was in the middle of something else, but this is important !
I am thirsty!

[Nancy in New York]

THIS IS WHAT NANCY MAY BE REFERRING TO.
This is not new. It is simply a reminder of what everyone has been taught for years at all the wildlife symposiums. The quick calculation was perhaps Erica Miller's shortcut some years ago to make it simple.

Listen - 10% don't seem like much. But
THAT's ALL THERE IS WHEN IT COMES TO WATER !!!
ANYTHING MORE THAN A BIT OVER TEN PERCENT LOSS RESULTS IN DEATH!!!
When you feel thirsty, that is only ONE PERCENT !
One percent and you already feel thirsty! Get it.

At 5% the baby will not feel like eating fully and will get picky, tentative, play with the food.
5-7% you will get very little urine, and lethargy
8-10% is dry, tacky mucous membranes slow skin return and spiky fur.
Like its rubbed backwards from rear to head.

That is why their weight is important.
Too much, burdens their digestive track and creates bloat. But too little kills!

If a baby is dehydrated, each day it still needs the normal amount of fluids PLUS ADDITIONAL fluid to over the course of THREE DAYS catch up on the dehydration.

You cannot feed the babies if they are dehydrated. Their organs are not working right.
Once they are hydrated for the first day, then they need nutrition.

Nutrition comes from formula.
Which should include their daily maintenance fluid.
In ADDITION and BETWEEN MEALS - THREE TIMES A DAY you give them HYDRATION FLUID. Which must quickly help overcome their lack of water.
Fluids are required for appetite, for recovery, for gastro intestinal function, for normal kidney and circulatory function.
If a baby has been dehydrated, it will not recover properly if only switched to correct fluid amount – amount that they would normally be maintained on.
At first you must also give the baby REPLACEMENT FLUIDS to replace what was missing.
It’s like catching up when you are late, you have to move at the normal speed plus more to make up the difference.

Maintenance fluid is usually 5% of baby’s body weight.
Fluid is measured in Milliliters and weight is measure in Grams.
So for a 100 gram baby you would feed 5 milliliters in volume measure 5 cubic centimeters.
NOW FOLLOW THIS:
REPLACEMENT FLUIDS ARE ALSO AN ADDITIONAL FIVE PERCENT THE FIRST DAY.
And continued at half that amount for two more days.
So that is 1st day 5% ADDITIONAL FOR A TOTAL OF 10 %
And the second and third day are 2.5% additional for a total of 7.5% daily.

You do not give all the fluids at one time. They must not get over filled.
You distribute it over three servings each day.
A QUICK CALCULATION IS TEN PERCENT THE FIRST DAY OVER THREE SERVINGS IS 3.3%
AND THE NEXT TWO DAYS AT 2.5% BECAUSE THREE FEEDINGS OF 2.5% = THE 7.5% TOTAL FOR THE DAY.
STARTING DAY FOUR YOU CONTINUE AT FIVE PERCENT.
YOU CAN GIVE A BIT MORE BUT NOT LESS.

THE FIRST DAY SHOULD JUST BE FLUIDS.
BUT AFTER THAT START INTRODUCING FORMULA.
DILUTE IT ¼ NORMAL STRENGHT FOR FIRST TWO FEEDINGS,
THEN INCREASE TO HALF, AND THREE QUARTERS FOR SUBSEQUENT TWO FEEDINGS.
UNTIL FULL FORMULA WHICH IS PROPERLY MIXED AS DIRECTED ON PACKAGE.
IMPORTANT: FLUIDS MUST BE BABY TEMPERATURE. SQUIRRELS ARE ABOUT 100 DEGREES.
A LITTLE WARMER IS BETTER THAN A LITTLE COLDER.

forgive any typos.. was in the middle of something else, but this is important !
I am thirsty!


Thank you BN for posting.
Perhaps this reminder should be posted somewhere in the emergency
threads as I have never seen hydration described in such depth, other
than the Wild Mammal Babies book. I so would have loved to hear this presentation. :hissyfit
Erica Miller, DVM has a shortcut method for figuring replacement fluids in the book, I will scan and post.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/nancym518/Hydration%20SubQ/2016.jpg (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/nancym518/media/Hydration%20SubQ/2016.jpg.html)

[RobinTN]

:goodpost BigNibbler, that was an excellent explanation. Think I'm gonna cut, paste, & save that!

But if an admin would do the same & make it a sticky, that would work, too (hint, hint)

[island rehabber]

:thumbsup I believe the very same rehydration methodology that we learned at the Gathering, from Marty, was developed by Dr. Miller herself. We're ALL on the same page. :great

[SammysMom]

It is the same thing I learned at the CWRA meeting on Saturday in the Fluid Therapy lab.:thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

OK so we learned it, but do we apply it when we tell them to hydrate their squirrel? :dono

I know that I don't! :shakehead

[dragonwcc]

question, i have a hampster water bottle on their cage, they sparringly use it, should i keep it there even though i am rehydrating them every 4 hours now?

[SammysMom]

Definitely keep it there!

[dragonwcc]

254091
this is the most active one!

[dragonwcc]

254092
this is the camera shy less active smaller one

[dragonwcc]

please tell me they are looking better :grouphug also pldease tell me something to do to pasify them they seem to be going stir crazy crawling all over the cage!

[RobinTN]

please tell me they are looking better :grouphug also pldease tell me something to do to pasify them they seem to be going stir crazy crawling all over the cage!

Yes they are starting to look better, poor things were too weak to even stand in the 1st set of pix... Just remember it's only been 24 hours and they still need more hydration. Once their little bodies get 'caught up' you'll be able to tell an even bigger difference.
254093254094

254095254096

I can tell you're really working hard to get these two back on the right track, and time will seem to drag on forever:imp Just listen to the experts here (esp on the hydration!) and follow everything they say to the letter because these people know their squirrels!

As far as going stir crazy... well, they ARE squirrels lol:poke

[SammysMom]

Oh look how much smoother their fur is!!! Keep up the good work!:thumbsup

[Shewhosweptforest]

:hello

Nancy I posted last night.....post #19 the criteria we were taught :dono

[dragonwcc]

another update, they have starting making noises again, cute little grunts when they are rooting around in the nest and when you take the syrenge away when feeding :Love_Icon
also, how old to they seem, i cant find a good chart to go by because i cant reliably weight them

[SammysMom]

When did eyes open?

[Nancy in New York]

:hello

Nancy I posted last night.....post #19 the criteria we were taught :dono

Oh for the love of.......:)
You know I QUICKLY scanned the posts thinking that you were giving breakdown for formula feeding. My apologies.
When I see trusted members who know what they're doing at that hour of the night, I seldom read, I just scan, because I know the info is correct.
See now I have to read completely, so that I know what the heck is going on in a thread. :baghead
:hug

[RobinTN]

We can try to estimate their weight, but it really would be alot better if you can get ahold of a scale. To estimate weight we need a good pic of each next to a common household object. An empty toilet paper roll, pack of cigarettes, just anything thats always the same size.

They're feeling well enough to make noises again... Amazing how such a small thing can make you feel such intense joy, huh? I do believe you are owned... by two scrawny little fuzzbutts:owned

Now how about some names so we can get away from Baby A and Baby B?:poke

[Shewhosweptforest]

:nono Nancy :grin3 I figured I just got it wrong in this situation :dono but, we were told this was the way to go...because hydration is critical...but, formula is necessary....especially when a baby has lost so much weight. I learned it's a slippery slope....without nutrients, baby dies...without hydration, nutrients aren't absorbed. It did feel like a small amount of hydration....but I was following the formula BN posted.....I'm just thrilled the Baaabeees are improving :bowdown:Love_Icon

I just wanted you to see I was applying what I've learned :thumbsup

TSB is amazing:thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

:nono Nancy :grin3 I figured I just got it wrong in this situation :dono but, we were told this was the way to go...because hydration is critical...but, formula is necessary....especially when a baby has lost so much weight. I learned it's a slippery slope....without nutrients, baby dies...without hydration, nutrients aren't absorbed. It did feel like a small amount of hydration....but I was following the formula BN posted.....I'm just thrilled the Baaabeees are improving :bowdown:Love_Icon

I just wanted you to see I was applying what I've learned :thumbsup

TSB is amazing:thumbsup

:rolf Now I just have to start applying what you learned,
and remember to read and not skim. :grin2

[BigNibbler]

OK so we learned it, but do we apply it when we tell them to hydrate their squirrel? :dono

I know that I don't! :shakehead


Exactly. But most everyone I know, simply never drink enough themselves.
that is why I tried to present it in an emotive way.
I mean for most things, 10% is marginal.
It is hard to feel that its a big loss.
That is the key point made over and over again, because knowing something is important is the first step to dealing with it effectively.

[dragonwcc]

the eyes were opened when found in the yard, ill post pictures next to an item asap.

[dragonwcc]

254103
254104

[dragonwcc]

poop update, the more active one pooped a piece about 2-3 times larger than a grain of rice, it was firm the smaller one pooped while being fed and it was still very runny, but it is slowly getting more firm for lack of a better comparison is was a little more runny than peanut butter

[island rehabber]

We're on the right track, I think. Continue to hydrate, especially the one who is still having the runs. More out means she needs a lot more coming in. :thumbsup

[RobinTN]

How much do you think these babies weigh?

254107254108

Hopefully someone with more experience can "weigh in" (collective groan)... I'm sorry I know I'm corny I really can't resist:baghead

Is the one we're calling Baby A the more active one, and also the one whose poop has firmed up? From these pics he looks like the stronger of the two, but it's kinda hard to keep which is which straight:thinking

[Nancy in New York]

How much do you think these babies weigh?

254107254108

Hopefully someone with more experience can "weigh in" (collective groan)... I'm sorry I know I'm corny I really can't resist:baghead

Is the one we're calling Baby A the more active one, and also the one whose poop has firmed up? From these pics he looks like the stronger of the two, but it's kinda hard to keep which is which straight:thinking

:rolf
Gosh this is difficult to guesstimate their weight from this angle.

Is it possible to get one from the side, or in your hand, but NOT too close?
What are we guessing weight for, formula/hydration consumption?

[RobinTN]

:rolf
Gosh this is difficult to guesstimate their weight from this angle.

Is it possible to get one from the side, or in your hand, but NOT too close?
What are we guessing weight for, formula/hydration consumption?

Yes Nancy, he's got a scale, but the weights were varying so widely, like 20-30grams a day up & down, it really didn't seem right.

There are a couple in his hand, around the top of page 4 I think?

[Annabelle's papa]

Yes Nancy, he's got a scale, but the weights were varying so widely, like 20-30grams a day up & down, it really didn't seem right.

There are a couple in his hand, around the top of page 4 I think?

:) Scale might need fresh Batteries.:tilt

[RobinTN]

:) Scale might need fresh Batteries.:tilt

And some posters (like myself) might need them, too... or a big duh smack in the middle of my forehead:stepaway

It just might be time for me to go to bed:idea

[Annabelle's papa]

And some posters (like myself) might need them, too... or a big duh smack in the middle of my forehead:stepaway

It just might be time for me to go to bed:idea

:) I carried my new scale back to Walmart -then found the little button on the bottom that converts.:tilt

[Nancy in New York]

Emergency! I gave them both hydration solution 4 hours ago about 5cc each now I'm trying to give 3:1 formula and the smaller one is just laying there breathing heavy tried to feed it and its just dripping out of its mouth gave it maybe 1 cc of hydration fluid instead of formula and it drank a few drops please help
I am starting this as a new thread.

[Nancy in New York]

New thread made for this emergency.
Please post in the thread linked below.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?49716-EMERGENCY-HELP-NEEDED-FAST!&p=1085611&posted=1#post1085611