WATER: TAP OR FILTERED ?

[BigNibbler]

I don't have a whole house water filter.
And I hate drinking tap water. Hate it.
But I drink close to five liters of filtered water every day. Sometimes more. It lubricates my sense of humor. and no, there is no liquor added.

Question, how many here feel that tap water is OK.
I had been giving my nibblers tap water.
Then I started thinking that in nature they never really drink chlorinated and flourinated water.
So for a few years now I give them the filtered water that I drink.

Maybe I recall this topic being discussed, not sure.. but figure it is a valid question?

Tap or filter.

ALSO how often do you change a one liter bottle of water when it would last many weeks being that there are other bottles as well. Do it once a week, once a day, or what ?

I generally have not had any adverse situations with changing the water ever few weeks, as long as it is not too low. But been wondering about it. The air festering over the water in the bottle.
Think someone said they change the water every day.
I think that is a bit unnecessary.
You ?

[SammysMom]

Sammy will only drink water from the fridge door. Filtered. The others get tap water. I change bottles daily. They drink almost the whole bottle daily anyway, but it is part of our morning routine.

[island rehabber]

BN, for you and me, tap water is absolutely fine. We are priveleged to enjoy some of the purest, cleanest tap water anywhere in the world here in NYC. Our water comes from far north in the mountains, bypassing hundreds of thousands of people who live closer to that source, just to come to US because we are in 'The City'. Those people between our water source and us, well, they're stuck with reservoirs and you know what people, birds and fish do in those. :grin3
I drink lots and lots of ice water, all the time, from the tap. Love it.

EDIT: I have realized just now that I misspoke myself; BN is not IN New York City as I am, and so he's subject to the vagueries of Long Island tap water. I apologize, BN....you have every right to be concerned about your water. You're such an authentic Brooklyn guy, I still think of you as living in Brooklyn. :)

[BigNibbler]

You are lucky Maura.
You know I am kind of a sensitive sort.
Whenever I drink TW in long island, ( not in my old Bronx ), but home in L.I, my belly kinds blows up, all bloated.
Happened last month again.
Hotels seem to be fine somehow.
And when I was in Florida for weeks, no problem.
I am not concerned Maura with bacteria, but with additives that nibblers normally would not have like chlorine and flourine. They naturally drink dew, and rain, and of course exhaust smoked puddles and oil flavored curb rivers. But my wilds, they all come to my window and drink from my heated bird proof water dish that has filtered water !

So again, my concern are the additives. You are saying that the additives meant for 100 pound and up mammals is not over dosing 1 pounders , just checking?

[island rehabber]

You are lucky Maura.
You know I am kind of a sensitive sort.
Whenever I drink TW in long island, ( not in my old Bronx ), but home in L.I, my belly kinds blows up, all bloated.
Happened last month again.
Hotels seem to be fine somehow.
And when I was in Florida for weeks, no problem.
I am not concerned Maura with bacteria, but with additives that nibblers normally would not have like chlorine and flourine. They naturally drink dew, and rain, and of course exhaust smoked puddles and oil flavored curb rivers. But my wilds, they all come to my window and drink from my heated bird proof water dish that has filtered water !

So again, my concern are the additives. You are saying that the additives meant for 100 pound and up mammals is not over dosing 1 pounders , just checking?

I don't think it's an issue. Remember, the Dept of Health in NY and the DEP are concerned with water that is safe for newborn babies....okay well they are 6-8 lbs but you get my drift.

[Anne]

Florine is good for strong teeth and bones. Great for squirrels -well maybe not the malocclusion ones!

[Annabelle's papa]

:) Forte' as it were, I'm retired from Municipal Water Treatment, (It's in my Bio) and even though I am an Industrial Maintenance Technician, I performed double duty in Treatment Operations. As IR stated NYC water is some of if not the best in the Nation, and it continually beats out all of the other States in both testing and taste. NYC water has also received majority approval in blind taste tests against several bottled brands such as Dasani, Aquafina, and Perrier which is CO2 infused mineral water from France.

Our States water (Georgia) not so much, not to mention our largest river (the Savannah) is the 7th most polluted in the Country. We have on average about 10 fish kill's each year, and most of these occur in small tributaries that feed into the Savannah and 2 or 3 other rivers in the State. Industrial Plants in the South pollute whenever they want and when challenged pay fine's equal to parking tickets, and it stays business as usual. (Remember BP)

I used one gallon jugs of purified water with all of my Children when they were young, and I always use distilled water to mix both Infant and now Animal formula. Some brands of Infant formula suggest using distilled water, and I was once told distilled water is used so the minerals in the formula don't become unbalanced. This way the water is only an inert soluble carrier, I also used distilled water to mix photo and film processing chemicals decades ago. Distilled water should never be consumed by itself however, because it can leach electrolytes from your bloodstream. And even though the EPA and State agencies have strict guidelines pertaining to consumable water, the Quality really comes down to "Who's minding the store", but I guess the same thing is true about the jug/bottled water industries.:tilt

And Florine is good for bones and teeth and is also a mild antiseptic, although if your municipal facility is treating with either too much Florine or Chlorine you can experience a myriad of chronic symptoms ranging from Acid reflux to psoriasis. Very high levels of Iron and Phosphorus can also be found in almost all Municipal drinking water, the Iron is a given considering the Equipment used to process and the delivery system used to bring water to your Tap.

[riefderrico]

I'm sorry, I don't agree w/ tap water - only filtered goes into the kids (furry 3 and 4 legged ones and 2 legged kinds) even my outside babies. I have researched this topic extensively for work and found that treated water from county and city entities are full of chemicals and chlorine. This varies from state to state, though. Water companies are required to file a water quality report annually (may be different from state to state) but generally only test for 5 inorganic contaminates, 2 microbiological contaminates, 2 volatile organic contaminates and 1 organic contaminate as required by the Fed. If your sewer water goes to a treatment station it is generally treated and sent back into the general water supply. What is not accounted for is everything flushed (drugs are huge), run off, pesticides etc...that make it through the filtering process. Where I am - fill up a soaker tub with tap water and it sometimes has a yellow tint and sometimes a blue or green tint, depending on what was treated this week.

I opt for a whole house filtration system and ionization system (but I am also one of those nut jobs that is planting their own food and in the process of going completely organic and totally pissed off with the GMO movement going on :grin3) A cheap whole house filter from one of the retail box stores works to get out some of the bigger issues and is better than nothing and very cost effective on the budget.

I think you guys are talking about Fluoride being added to the water for bones and teeth. This is really a myth and very few if any other countries do this and it is actually quite a dangerous chemical in which back in 2006 the ADA completed a study that confirms what "Naturals" have been saying for a very long time.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030123_fluoride_babies.html

[Annabelle's papa]

:thumbsup Amen riefderrico, as a former "Insider" so to speak, I've been trying to blow the whistle on water treatment. As you mentioned the treatment guidelines put in place aren't adequate, but the actual condition of the finished product comes down to the individuals doing the treatment. Doctors feel underpaid these day's and some show it with apathetic or lax treatment, (I hold the Medical Profession in the highest esteem, especially with how much education and dedication it takes,) can you imagine how much concern a Water Plant operator has toward a 15-20.00 an hour job. A water plant works like a huge living organism and requires consistent monitoring or the entire system can become septic, hourly sample testing is routinely performed by simply checking off report sheets by people who don't ever leave the break room.:tap Sadly we really can't put much more faith in the Companies that produce purified/packaged water, unlike 40 years ago one company or another is recalling a food, produce, or meat product each week.:sadness

Every drop of water that has ever existed is still on the planet, and even though convection cycles H2O through our upper atmosphere, what falls as rainwater isn't really Healthy considering the tons of airborne pollution released each day. I hate to say We've made our beds, and now we have to drink from them, ugh, because I personally haven't made any dividends from Proctor and Gamble or Monsanto, but their Shareholders certainly have.

The only drawback to Whole House or Point of Use Filtration systems is Periodic Maintenance, because whatever medium used whether charcoal, sand or "pleated paper", accumulated bacteria and mold/mildew has to be removed on a regular basis or an entirely different health hazard will present itself.:nono

Ionic forms of both water and air purification out perform most other mechanical devices, and have been used in Hospitals for decades. Point of service or under the sink systems have a starting price that start in the thousands. These systems also require periodic maintenance to remain effective, although whole room ionic Air purifiers are worth every penny and good models start at 100.00.

I know what you were saying about Waste Water discharging into rivers that are used by other Municipalities for Drinking Water, the city of Augusta utilizes water from the Savannah River in it's Drinking water plant, and it takes this water from an area approx 5 miles downstream from where the neighboring community discharges their Waste.:tilt

[BigNibbler]

This is why I posted my original question.
The responses are seemingly at both extremes.
And I respect both of them.
Most of the time I drink filtered water.
Over the years I have had some very complex multiple filtration.
And I have had terrible fights with water bottle and water cooler companies who would deliver bottles that leaked ( meaning air also was getting in ) and coolers that were sold as advance filtration systems and which both tasted awful and upon inspection had toy filters.

I feel bad if I drink tap water that has not been filtered.
So it is hard for me to be objective.
Furthermore, I drink on average five liters of water daily.
NEVER do I drink soft drinks which I feel are evidence of society's idiocy.
Why drink liquid that already has solubles in it.

But Flouride has always been a controversy.
Chlorine levels vary, and is a very powerful chemical.

So for a small mammal who would normally not drink water that is treated, I just think the lack of good minerals that may be filtered out, is exceeded by the likelihood of undesirable additives.
This does not address bacteria as depending on filtration, those may not be removed anyhow.

Lets keep this dialogue going. Thought that with several responses on on both sides, it was time as the OP to clarify my view for the time being.

[ReRe]

Pardon me for asking a question that may not be related to this thread...(new member). I would use tap though. My question is Odus is about 5 wks, still on formula, my first baby...I haven't thought about giving water period....just did the milestone of figuring out what/how to feed and the pee/poop issues. So, should Odus be getting water? If so how much? She is knocking 70 grams now. Just found out Odus is a girl:gigg...LOL Your help will be appreciated.

[LaurelLynn]

What about with tap water from a well? I know wells vary from place to place

We are lucky now that our well water is wonderful tasting but before moving here, our well water had different minerals or something and if i used it to mix formula it would get all weird, clumpy and almost gritty. I had to use bottled water

[HRT4SQRLS]

I use well water. It's fine.

ReRe, Odus doesn't need water yet. If she was still with her mom she would only be getting milk. Sometimes if continued dehydration is an issue, water or sugar water is given between feedings to boost the hydration but as a rule, NO ... water isn't necessary.

[Annabelle's papa]

Pardon me for asking a question that may not be related to this thread...(new member). I would use tap though. My question is Odus is about 5 wks, still on formula, my first baby...I haven't thought about giving water period....just did the milestone of figuring out what/how to feed and the pee/poop issues. So, should Odus be getting water? If so how much? She is knocking 70 grams now. Just found out Odus is a girl:gigg...LOL Your help will be appreciated.
:)Hi ReRe, from what I understand they receive plenty of hydration from the water mixed with the formula, I've also seen where water can be given to them between feedings if they need extra hydration.:great

What about with tap water from a well? I know wells vary from place to place

We are lucky now that our well water is wonderful tasting but before moving here, our well water had different minerals or something and if i used it to mix formula it would get all weird, clumpy and almost gritty. I had to use bottled water

:)Ahhh well water LL, if your well is away from an overly populated area, where groundwater contamination "can" be less of a hazard you should still have your water tested periodically to stay on the safe side. Considering groundwater contaminants can leach great distances your water could be affected at any time, many municipalities use wells in conjunction with surface water. However some wells in the middle of paradise can contain naturally occurring levels of contaminants that exceed EPA standards, including Fluoride.:tilt

Fluorine is a naturally occurring element that when exposed to the air virtually takes on other atoms which makes it the compound we know as Fluoride, much the way dark blue/black blood becomes red when exposed to oxygen.:Love_Icon There are several different compounds used to put fluoride in drinking water, and they can be in liquid or dry powder form depending what type of system is used. Both fluoride and chlorine dissipate from treated water rather quickly though, usually within 24-48 hours. In nature Squirrel's and other Animals have access to many different sources of water including of course standing puddles of water on hard surfaces, and smaller amounts of water from leaves and other thick bedded ground cover. How about "Tree's", the water oak and I'm sure many other species hold water in the trunk and limbs, I bravely:tilt stuck my arm into the trunk of a tree when I was younger in hopes of finding "Something" I could take home and make a pet out of and was freaked out when my arm plunged into about 10 inch's of water.:eek

I was expecting to get bitten but not wet, but think about it that is probably the healthiest water available, after being filtered though porous wood cells, to then be collected in the cavity of the trunk. After all of this talk about the dangers of drinking water, the idea of "Drink Milk" comes to mind. (Insert smiley with white mustache) After all milk is water that has been filtered through a large Cow, ha., but I undress, cows are fed hormones and antibiotics and I think this could be why so many gastroenterologists have a long waiting list for appointments. :dono


I've always used distilled water to mix Human and now Animal formula because I didn't want to upset the vitamin and mineral balance of the said formulations, merely as a soluble carrier, and I think I read it before on a can of Similac. And have used packaged purified water with my Children while they were young, however there's little that can be done to improve the condition of our drinking water, we have to depend on our bodies to defend us from latent foreign contaminants.

[Annabelle's papa]

I use well water. It's fine.

ReRe, Odus doesn't need water yet. If she was still with her mom she would only be getting milk. Sometimes if continued dehydration is an issue, water or sugar water is given between feedings to boost the hydration but as a rule, NO ... water isn't necessary.

Hi H4S, I was typing when you posted,:tilt but the water in the formula being adequate was another thing I've learned from you and the other experienced members.:thumbsup

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

I think it depends on where you are, all water systems are different
I drink out of my Brita and so does Gio and my dogs.
Florida has some funky water.

[BigNibbler]

I am glad to read the more scientific responses here, as I usually pursue a technical understanding of things.
And I am happy to read that GIO drinks water from the filters that my Sweetie often finds in her birdproof water feeder.

Tap water in my area simply tastes bitter and obnoxious to me.
Last month, my filter was long over due for a change.
And next thing I find, I am all bloated and feeling sick.
That is when this situation bubbled over.

In the past, I have demonstrated double blind taste testing, and was able to identify my favorite water every time. That water is somewhat controversial as it has a lot of solids. It is Evian water.
Normally I do not buy any brand name waters.
Think that is all hype, and all spring water is man made.
But there is something delicious, very clear, soothing, just a pleasure to drink.

Around here, the outside nibblers, can get water from dew, leaves, and branch moisture as you say.
But those who do not drink from my dish, or those who are chased from my dish at busy times, I personally observe drinking from the gutters which I never clear out, curb side rivulets and puddles - which are the most scary, as they contain exhaust and petroleum additives.
So my water is appreciated.

And as you notice, none of the water sources they otherwise access, would have the water facilities treatments. As we are to be guided by the creature's natural history, it seems we are forced to choose which is more natural - to filter out some native minerals, or to serve a chemically altered ?
Since I dislike drinking tap water, and respond badly to it, and since none of those I see around me are ever drinking from the village water supply it makes sense to me to filter it.

But I would love to do some tests where the amount consumed in a controlled experiment is measured to see if they themselves prefer one flavor or the other.
So many variables come into play outdoors, that this would have to be done with indoor nibblers.
And even indoors, there are variations in humidity, temperature, the day's activity, and water content consumed with in their food.
This really would require a very well planned, meticulously measure set up.
Could be done. Should be done.
I realistically will probably never do it.
Perhaps someone in a more conducive environment could or perhaps even already has done this test.
Tap vs Filtered water and rodent water consumption, general health, dunno, what other parameters - hydration tests...
Just seems could be useful knowledge and consideration.
Might make a difference in borderline hydration situations.
Me, for example, without filtered water, I drink one 1.5 liters vs 5 liters in a day.

[Annabelle's papa]

:) Hi BN, I 'm glad you plunged into this subject, I enjoy reading how Folk's including yourself feel about their own supplies of water, but the NYC product is first class from everything I've ever read. :great A couple of factors could be the relatively short distance it travels to reach the City, and the fact that all of the area from Manhattan up is solid granite. The taste of the water you receive in your immediate area could be altered because of the treatment methods used by your closest facility, or the distribution lines in your community. Because of basic deterioration, iron piping can contribute scale, rust, and an excessive amount of iron. The next time you get a chance, remove the screen from beneath the faucet on your kitchen sink, you could find white gritty scale, or small flecks of rust, and if your finger tips are inky black you have a lot of elemental iron. Nothing harmful but all of it can change the way water tastes, and most of it comes from the piping in your immediate area or even the pipes in your home.

People love the way home grown Tomatoes and other Vegetables taste, and it's because the water in them is the same as they're used to drinking. Some people feel the same about the taste of beer, and popular soft drink's can taste differently from one region to another, all because of where the water originates. I think all treated water and well water is good to consume regardless of mild contaminants, and I certainly understand your taste preferences, but even tap water will taste much better if it is refrigerated overnight.

[Coralreefer]

I'm sorry, I don't agree w/ tap water - only filtered goes into the kids (furry 3 and 4 legged ones and 2 legged kinds) even my outside babies. I have researched this topic extensively for work and found that treated water from county and city entities are full of chemicals and chlorine. This varies from state to state, though. Water companies are required to file a water quality report annually (may be different from state to state) but generally only test for 5 inorganic contaminates, 2 microbiological contaminates, 2 volatile organic contaminates and 1 organic contaminate as required by the Fed. If your sewer water goes to a treatment station it is generally treated and sent back into the general water supply. What is not accounted for is everything flushed (drugs are huge), run off, pesticides etc...that make it through the filtering process. Where I am - fill up a soaker tub with tap water and it sometimes has a yellow tint and sometimes a blue or green tint, depending on what was treated this week.

I opt for a whole house filtration system and ionization system (but I am also one of those nut jobs that is planting their own food and in the process of going completely organic and totally pissed off with the GMO movement going on :grin3) A cheap whole house filter from one of the retail box stores works to get out some of the bigger issues and is better than nothing and very cost effective on the budget.

I think you guys are talking about Flouride being added to the water for bones and teeth. This is really a myth and very few if any other countries do this and it is actually quite a dangerous chemical in which back in 2006 the ADA completed a study that confirms what "Naturals" have been saying for a very long time.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030123_fluoride_babies.html

Could not agree more on the water.
People are misled all the time about their water supplies. I've heard it all from water districts.
I spent time in the water industry. Tested municipal water supplies in numerous cities in 6 different states. Never once.... NOT ONCE did we find any supply that was truly at safe levels for dangerous chemicals even though the local govt. would tell you that their water was in fact safe. Go figure.

What most people don't understand is that govt. sets "safe water" standards to the safest levels they think they can effectively achieve not based on what would actually be considered safe. They have to. It's an impossible job to keep drinking water for the public in such large amounts truly clean of both dangerous organisms and dangerous chemicals. You're going to get one or the other.

Each water district is required to give you a water report if you request it.
Make sure you ask for the Pesticide report. Most districts leave the Pesticide portion out if you don't specifically request it because they do not want the general public knowing anything about it. I've seen reports that are 4 pages long documenting all kinds of levels of pesticides, dangerous runoff chemicals, etc in a locations water.

The only true way to have clean water is point of use water filtration that takes chemicals out right at your home or bottled water from companies that have passed testing. There are a lot of crap bottled water companies out there to so you have to be careful.

Our animals don't ever get tap water. You can't live in a bubble and stay chemical free but when you consider that water is the base need for life and you count on it to clean your body then I'd say if you make sure one thing is clean it should be your water.

Don't believe the Fluoride hype either.
This being added to your water is not a necessary step anymore and it is in fact a carcinogen.

Make your own decisions but I just wanted to share my experience on this subject.

[Annabelle's papa]

:goodpost

:) Amen Coralreefer, you were much more concise explaining the lax testing standards, especially the part where you mentioned that levels aren't meant to be necessarily safe but attainable. The most important point I tried to express is the Apathy of the people doing the treating and testing, if a high level of something isn't supposed to exceed .05 ppm, then when the end of shift comes around this is what the report sheet will reflect, even if that said level is .09 - 1.07. Let the next shift handle it, is the Mantra shared by many class I II and III water plant operators. In the olden days :oldwise people used to care about their level of Job performance, nowadays it's "Punch Clock, Collect Check", and that mindset permeates salaried and supervisory positions as well. With that said just how safe is Bottled Water, I wouldn't think employees at a bottled water company could, on average, be more dedicated than State Certified Municipal plant operators earning twice as much.

A good example of workplace Apathy can be seen in the job performance of our Governments Secret Service over the past few years, I also stopped eating out anywhere years ago, because it only takes one unhygienic member of an otherwise great kitchen staff to send you home with Dysentery or Worse.:eek Point of use filtration is the most economical/efficient way to go, and from what I've read most products on the market remove most contaminants, and Fluoride as well.:thumbsup