Red squirrel losing use of back legs

[nchls_school]

I am new to this forum. Earlier in the school year one of my students brought me a young red squirrel that had been passed on through several people. It fell out of the nest as a baby onto a roof. The people that found it fed the baby until it weaned. Once weaned it was passed on to a new owner. The squirrel (Peanut) has teeth that do not match up so they grow without being worn down. Peanut was passed on several times until my student brought the baby to me thinking I would know what to do about the teeth. I trim the teeth every two weeks. When I first got the squirrel the only food it ate were peanuts (hence the name). Now, my wife has the squirrel eating a variety of foods; a wide array of nuts, bread products, and greens. At first Peanut appeared very active, alert, and playful. For the last few weeks he has been walking with more and more difficulty and he appears to be loosing the use of his back legs. He is still alert and playful, but as time goes by Peanut has more difficulties in getting around. I am hoping that someone may have an idea of what might be wrong. He has not fallen that we know of and there has been no other accident other than falling on the roof as a baby. Both my wife and I have become very fond of the squirrel and it's very upsetting to my wife to watch her pet slowly worsen over time. Any Ideas of what we might try or do would be appreciated. nchls_school

[farrelli]

If your sq eats no blocks, it's probably MBD. Here is the treatment. Time is of the essence.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?34495-Emergency-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Bone-Disease-(MBD)

And here is what his diet should look like. Diet is absolutely critical.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

I have a meeting in a few minutes but others will follow up if necessary.

[farrelli]

Unfortunately, the makers of our most recommended block are on vacation for Xmas but will be back. For now, I'd recommend getting Kaytee Forti Diet (blue bag) from a pet store. Not the best blocks, but easy to get.

You should also know that vitamin D is necessary for calcium absorption but too much is toxic, so if he's had no source of it, I would take a tiny scraping from a human D3 pill and give it to him. Just one dose of this would be sufficient.

Gotta go.

[farrelli]

Better blocks, if you can find them, are Oxbow and Harlan Teklad.

He will probably hate his blocks but we can give suggestions about how to serve them if so.

[Nancy in New York]

Yes this is the first sign of Metabolic Bone Disease, their back legs give out.
Unfortuantely, the diet seems to be the issue here. Not to worry most of us never
knew what to feed the squirrels that found their way to us either.
I'm glad that you found TSB.
MBD is very painful, and he will also be prone to falls. So try to limit his activity.
His bones are very fragile now, and a fall could easily break one.

They get quite achy when they have this, though squirrels are excellent at hiding their
pain, you could give him infant ibuprophen, but we would need a weight to properly dose.
Do you by any chance have a heating pad that you could put under his container? It helps
with the discomfort. If you do, put it on low, and only under half.

It took him a long time to get to this point, and it will take a long time for him to get well.
IF you stay the course, it will work, but you HAVE to keep up the MBD treatments.
Also for a squirrel the size of a red, I would cut the amount of calcium to half of the recommended
dose.

I too am running out for a while, but will be back soon, and check in. Others will help you as well.

[farrelli]

Btw, this could also be a neurological issue from the sq falling, as they sometimes take time to show up, but MBD is the most likely cause. We'll see how he progresses. If it's neuro, we can probably help you with that too.

[nchls_school]

My thanks to all of you. My wife has health issues and is home bound. Peanut has become more than just a pet; rather, more of a companion. I've had many pets over the years, but never a squirrel. I had no idea that he would be such a playful, friendly animal. I was at a loss as to what to do. At least now my wife can feel she is doing something to help Peanut. Again, thank you all. nchls_school

[HRT4SQRLS]

At least now my wife can feel she is doing something to help Peanut.
Not only will she be doing something to help, she will quite literally be saving Peanuts life. The MBD protocol works.
Thanks for reaching out for help. It sounds like Peanut needed a place to finally call home. Good luck to you.

[farrelli]

So what are your plans for the diet? It's critical.

There is a lot to know about raising a sq, so hopefully you and your wife will be active members here, at least for a time. There are many things that you'll probably have to deal with, such as him coming into heat. Things to know about bedding, housing, etc. And perhaps you can share your experiences with teeth trimming as many people come here having to deal with that, and I'm not sure if we've had anyone with a red have to trim before. They're feisty!

And of course we'd love to see some pics!

[farrelli]

Oh, and never take him outside! We have many new people make that mistake, usually to terrible consequences.

And make sure you squirrelproof your home.

Does he have furnishings and toys?

[farrelli]

A further note about diet (I told you there's a lot to know, I hope you guys remain members so other problems don't happen), you should really be avoiding corn and peanuts right now. Both are very high in phosphorous, which blocks calcium absorption. Below is a guide to foods and their calcium/phosphorous balance. The ideal is 2:1, but most foods don't come close to that, but things like corn and peanuts are totally off the scale. They're bad for most sqs other than occasionally, and they're just horrible for an MBD sq who's trying to rebuild bone.

[CritterMom]

You will note that we utilize Tums for at least the first part of our MBD treatment. The fruit flavored ones are the best - some squirrels will grab them from you and eat them like candy, which makes dosing very easy. I sugest you try this before you begin to dissolve them and try to give by syringe - your little one may make it easy on you.

[nchls_school]

So what are your plans for the diet? It's critical.

There is a lot to know about raising a sq, so hopefully you and your wife will be active members here, at least for a time. There are many things that you'll probably have to deal with, such as him coming into heat. Things to know about bedding, housing, etc. And perhaps you can share your experiences with teeth trimming as many people come here having to deal with that, and I'm not sure if we've had anyone with a red have to trim before. They're feisty!

And of course we'd love to see some pics!

I wouldn't call Peanut feisty. He reminds me of a very tiny puppy. If he's not eating or sleeping he is playing with-cardboard tubes, baby teething rings, ping pong balls, a swinging ladder, (His favorite toy has always been our fingers. He loves wiggling finger.) and my wife has probably added to this today. I'm at school and the kids are celebrating Christmas and the prospects of ten days off from school. Trimming Peanut's teeth is easy once we got used to the tiny size. At this point Peanut opens his mouth willingly so we can check out the teeth. He's not crazy about the trimming, but as long as we keep the clippers very sharp, the job goes pretty fast. nchls_school

[nchls_school]

You will note that we utilize Tums for at least the first part of our MBD treatment. The fruit flavored ones are the best - some squirrels will grab them from you and eat them like candy, which makes dosing very easy. I sugest you try this before you begin to dissolve them and try to give by syringe - your little one may make it easy on you.

My wife (Kimmi) says that Peanut hates the eye dropper and dissolved tums. I'll tell her to try them solid. He hates anything messy and does not like getting wet; not even a little bit. nchls_school Now it's time to get back to my kids.

[CritterMom]

If he won't, try mashing them up with some peanut butter and rolling it into little "dosage" balls.

[SammysMom]

Eye droppers are very awkward. You might want to stop by your local pharmacy and ask them if you can get a syringe with no needle on it. Ask for no larger than a 3cc syringe and tell them it is for dosing an orphan kitten. THey will usually give you a couple at either no charge or a very small amount. They are easier in that you can go into the corner of the mouth and aim it up rather than down like you have to do with a dropper.

[farrelli]

Very little peanut butter, for the already mentioned reasons. Almond butter would be better if you have it (less phosphorous), or anything else you can think of. Have you ever tried avocado (no pits or seeds - toxic)? That also works and sqs typically LOVE it. You can also use an unflavored human calcium pill (calcium carbonate) all ground up, but not one with vitamin D. Like I said, it's necessary for calcium absorption, but too much is toxic. It's actually used to kill rodents.

[CritterMom]

Is this a little red squirrel or a fox squirrel? Can we see a pic? If a little red, reduce the calcium to 350 mg per day as they are much smaller than grays, which the treatment was written for.

[farrelli]

Make that, no pit or SKIN of the avocado.

[nchls_school]

Oh, and never take him outside! We have many new people make that mistake, usually to terrible consequences.

And make sure you squirrelproof your home.

Does he have furnishings and toys?

A previous owner tried to release Peanut back into the wild even though they knew he could not survive with teeth that have to be trimmed. He would not go and then he came to me. I have no intention of ever letting Peanut outside knowing what I do. If the teeth didn't do him in, the first time he ran up a stranger's leg would.

[nchls_school]

Is this a little red squirrel or a fox squirrel? Can we see a pic? If a little red, reduce the calcium to 350 mg per day as they are much smaller than grays, which the treatment was written for.

He is a red squirrel[ATTACH]248890. nchls_school

[nchls_school]

If he won't, try mashing them up with some peanut butter and rolling it into little "dosage" balls.

I'm on my way home now. We'll give it a try with almond paste. AND AGAIN, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP. nchls_school

[CritterMom]

OK - some people call the big fox squirrels "red squirrels" because they are so orange. That little sweetie should start at 350 mg of calcium per day spread over multiple feedings, and you will very slowly drop it down over a period of several months.

[TubeDriver]

What a little cutie!

You have been given good advice by the people who have responded so far. The one thing I want to emphasize is the absolute urgency of the MBD protocol at this stage. The next stage of this disease process will include broken bones and seizures and potentially irreversible loss of use of the rear legs.

If the MBD treatment is started ASAP with the introduction of a healthy diet, the MBD process can be halted and in many cases reversed. It will be several months till his little bones are healed and he is better but it can be done with dedication and perseverance to the treatment!

Good luck! I think he is lucky to have finally found owners who are willing to learn what is healthy for him and willing to stick with it!:thumbsup

[farrelli]

He's adorable. I can think of one member who's going to LOVE him (Nancy)!

[Nancy in New York]

He's adorable. I can think of one member who's going to LOVE him (Nancy)!

I am already planning my trip out there to visit him. :)
Honestly, there is NOTHING cuter and more adorable than a little
red.........he already has my heart. :Love_Icon

[nchls_school]

Better blocks, if you can find them, are Oxbow and Harlan Teklad.

He will probably hate his blocks but we can give suggestions about how to serve them if so.

Kimmi tells me that she HAS tried the blocks and, yes, he hated them. With his teeth Peanut can not chew hard foods. Any suggestions that would make it easier for Peanut to chew would be great. nchls_school

[Nancy in New York]

Kimmi tells me that she HAS tried the blocks and, yes, he hated them. With his teeth Peanut can not chew hard foods. Any suggestions that would make it easier for Peanut to chew would be great. nchls_school

What my squirrels like is something that you will see on the board, called Boo Balls.
This is how I make them, though there are a variety of ways in which people make these.
I take a bag of HHB blocks, crush that up in a food processor really good.
Take about 3/4 cup DRY Fox Valley formula 20/50 add that to the HHB's in the blender,
then I add about 1/2 cup pecans, and blend until the pecans are all ground up, and everything is
blended. THEN I dump that into a big bowl, and to that I add ~1/2 jar of organic applesauce.
I blend that in with a pastry blender and then take ~ 1 teaspoon of this mixture and roll it into a small
ball. Continue doing that until all of the ingredients are gone, this will make quite a few boo balls.
I place them in the refrig overnight and they get somewhat hard, but manageable for a little one like yours.
I take a few out and freeze the rest. Take them out as needed and let them sit.
These have no preservative in, that's why I freeze them.
You will see many recipes on the board, but this one worked best for me.

I also have one that is great from a rehabber that I will pass along, once I find it.

[nchls_school]

Eye droppers are very awkward. You might want to stop by your local pharmacy and ask them if you can get a syringe with no needle on it. Ask for no larger than a 3cc syringe and tell them it is for dosing an orphan kitten. THey will usually give you a couple at either no charge or a very small amount. They are easier in that you can go into the corner of the mouth and aim it up rather than down like you have to do with a dropper.
If the solid tums does not work we will try the syringe. We have syringes of all sizes. I've been raising many different bird species for many years. We often have to hand feed so we have all sizes of syringes on hand at all times. nchls_school

[farrelli]

We've had countless cases where a sq can't or won't eat blocks and we always win - we have to or the sq will live a short, unpleasant life. So, is it really that he CAN'T eat them? Does he eat anything else hard? Does he eat nuts, or even shell the nuts himself? If it's really that he can't, recipes like Nancy's are great, and we've even had cases where they won't eat the boo balls, and so the person has to order the vitamin and protein packs from Henry's and end up making something completely different. They will advise you how much to give.

Also, what kind of blocks did you give last time? Some are not only bad for the sq, they taste terrible. The best ones are these:

http://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-diet/

They're tasty and the only ones made for sq, not just rodents in general. A bag lasts a gray sq a month, so they'd last your guy, what, two? And there are ways to stretch them if budget is an issue.

So, for the time being, what are your plans for his diet tomorrow? The calcium is just the start of correcting his condition.

[nchls_school]

My wife (Kimmi) says that Peanut hates the eye dropper and dissolved tums. I'll tell her to try them solid. He hates anything messy and does not like getting wet; not even a little bit. nchls_school Now it's time to get back to my kids.


Can the tums be dissolved in Peanut's drinking water???

[farrelli]

You can try, but the calcium tends to settle to the bottom. It's usually not very effective. Are other means failing? Tell us what you've tried. We've been down this road a million times with people.

[Nancy in New York]

Can the tums be dissolved in Peanut's drinking water???

You will never know how much he is taking if you put it in the drinking water. This needs to be done by the book for the first couple of days, (with the lower dosage since he's a little red) this is crucial to follow this to the letter. This is a long process and you MUST follow these directions. Also if you give him pieces of the tums, you will never know how much is flying out when he eats it and it will not be spread out throughout the day, right?
Are you having a problem syringing this to him?


Emergency Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease (updated 3-31-09)

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 350 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093 (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16093)) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

(http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=403417)

.

[farrelli]

If you've tried the fruit juice mixture, you could also try mixing it with molasses (it's actually got calcium in it and other minerals), honey, etc. Surely he likes something that you can mix it with. Calcium is tasteless.

[Nancy in New York]

Just one other thought about the water bottle. I just wouldn't risk it clogging the nozzle.
The last thing you need is him being dehydrated too.
Thank you for finding us and for helping this little one, he sure is lucky
he finally found his way to you. :hug

[nchls_school]

You can try, but the calcium tends to settle to the bottom. It's usually not very effective. Are other means failing? Tell us what you've tried. We've been down this road a million times with people.

You're right the tums did settle. I have been trying to reply to post, but I keep getting,"error-message not long enough by one character" and the reply wont send. Hopefully this one will. I tried putting the tums in a bit of peanut butter (I'll get something better when we go to town). He ate a little. nchls_school

[nchls_school]

[QUOTE=Nancy in New York;1066257]
You will never know how much he is taking if you put it in the drinking water. This needs to be done by the book for the first couple of days, (with the lower dosage since he's a little red) this is crucial to follow this to the letter. This is a long process and you MUST follow these directions. Also if you give him pieces of the tums, you will never know how much is flying out when he eats it and it will not be spread out throughout the day, right?
Are you having a problem syringing this to him?



.[/QUOte

Thank you.

[kimnnee]

You're right the tums did settle. I have been trying to reply to post, but I keep getting,"error-message not long enough by one character" and the reply wont send. Hopefully this one will. I tried putting the tums in a bit of peanut butter (I'll get something better when we go to town). He ate a




little. nchls_school
Hi I'm Peanuts mommy and he is the most wonderful lil luv under 8 inches I've ever had in my whole life. This problem scares me but with all your help I'm sure (pray) he'll make it through. I given him for his diet broccoli slaw which has all different veggies in it cabbage carrots broc. All the veggies peel a grape 2 times a week for him pine nuts toasted n untoasted pecans almonds walnuts he Chitters the loudest when you brother him when he's eating his pine nuts or pecans basically speaks English and says mine mine get away.lol. he lovers to be scratched rubbed on his neck then his arm gerd up like OK rub here next. He did not like the syringe at all. Took a 5cc full of tums crushed with a few drops of water but let me know yuck.. tried it hours later and spit it back out most of it and chittered his mad at me very loudly. That was the maddest he's ever been at me ;( I felt so bad and explained to him why he didn't care just wanted back in his sleep box. I will try the recipe for the balls. And we have to cut his teeth again soon boy not to merry a Christmas for him poor baby. He's such a wonderful lil pet why don't people have these as pets is it just our luck and all of yours to have special sweet squirrels. Or all of them special cause they were young? Anyway your all amazing for your kindness happy holidays to all no matter his you all celebrate your all on the nice list from us Kimmi n Dan and if course peanut (Gizzy n Karlie n the 4 chickens n the 18 birds lol)

[kimnnee]

Dan just said how about a lil powdered milk in his water cup would that hurt him?

[farrelli]

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE get that calcium into him. Time is of the essence. You could have a dead or paralyzed sq if you don't get this done. You don't seem to be taking the seriousness of this situation to heart. If you genuinely care about him, force it if necessary. Tell us what you've tried so we can help!

[CritterMom]

Dan just said how about a lil powdered milk in his water cup would that hurt him?

No cows milk. It does not have enough calcium to help anyway.

350 mg of calcium is really not very much actual material. Depending on the total size of the Tums you got - they have several strengths - it is likely less than half a tablet, and that is spread out over ah entire 24 hour period. And Farelli is right, if this is allowed to continue, it can and WILL kill your baby. You are approximately half a Tums a day away from saving his life. THAT is how important it is that you get it into him somehow. You can't take no for an answer. You are a LOT bigger than he is!

[farrelli]

Try the different flavors of Tums (though not mint). Or get a flavorless calcium supplement, grind it up, and sprinkle or mix it into his food.

[Nancy in New York]

Hi I'm Peanuts mommy and he is the most wonderful lil luv under 8 inches I've ever had in my whole life. This problem scares me but with all your help I'm sure (pray) he'll make it through. I given him for his diet broccoli slaw which has all different veggies in it cabbage carrots broc. All the veggies peel a grape 2 times a week for him pine nuts toasted n untoasted pecans almonds walnuts he Chitters the loudest when you brother him when he's eating his pine nuts or pecans basically speaks English and says mine mine get away.lol. he lovers to be scratched rubbed on his neck then his arm gerd up like OK rub here next. He did not like the syringe at all. Took a 5cc full of tums crushed with a few drops of water but let me know yuck.. tried it hours later and spit it back out most of it and chittered his mad at me very loudly. That was the maddest he's ever been at me ;( I felt so bad and explained to him why he didn't care just wanted back in his sleep box. I will try the recipe for the balls. And we have to cut his teeth again soon boy not to merry a Christmas for him poor baby. He's such a wonderful lil pet why don't people have these as pets is it just our luck and all of yours to have special sweet squirrels. Or all of them special cause they were young? Anyway your all amazing for your kindness happy holidays to all no matter his you all celebrate your all on the nice list from us Kimmi n Dan and if course peanut (Gizzy n Karlie n the 4 chickens n the 18 birds lol)

Here is a great thread about pine nuts.
Let me just put here what HRT4SQRLS wrote, they are a HUGE nono.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?48313-pine-nuts-will-cause-calcium-loss&highlight=Pine+nuts


:wave123 carolphae
:Welcome to The Squirrel Board

I think the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio chart will help you understand why pine nuts are so bad.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67968&d=1232419601

The desirable foods should have a ratio of 2:1 Ca:P.
Pine nuts are 1:35.9. For every unit of Calcium there are 36 units of Phosphorus. This is a horrible imbalance. It takes a lot of calcium to balance out pine nuts. When the diet is calcium poor, the body will pull calcium out of the bones. This leads to a deadly condition called Metabolic Bone Disease. The symptoms are seizures, paralysis and then death. If not treated it is fatal. It is a condition of captive animals. In nature animals are able to balance their own diet. In captivity, they can only eat what we give them.

If you study the chart you will understand why a diet rich in nuts, seeds and corn will cause the death of squirrels. I hope this helps to explain why the diet is so important. :thumbsup

[nchls_school]

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE get that calcium into him. Time is of the essence. You could have a dead or paralyzed sq if you don't get this done. You don't seem to be taking the seriousness of this situation to heart. If you genuinely care about him, force it if necessary. Tell us what you've tried so we can help!

Why on earth would you think that we haven't tried to get as much calcium into Peanut as we can? We've used the syringe idea and I've been coaxing him to eat tums with peanut butter all morning. We could not be taking this more seriously. Dan

[farrelli]

How much have you gotten into him?

It seems like you're not serious because you're either not listing all the things that you've tried or aren't trying very many. MBD is one of the most common things that we deal with here with new users. We've all been on, literally, hundreds of cases and this one doesn't seem to be getting it done. Maybe it's a communications issue? Just list all the things you've tried. What forms and flavors of calcium have you tried, in what fashion, and in/or what foods?

[SammysMom]

If you use less water it will be less of it that you have to get into him. Make a paste and put it right into his mouth. Kids don't always like needed medicine either, but we give it to help them. I know that the situation is nod easy, but what you need to do is give the calcium.

[nchls_school]

Why on earth would you think that we haven't tried to get as much calcium into Peanut as we can? We've used the syringe idea and I've been coaxing him to eat tums with peanut butter all morning. We could not be taking this more seriously. Dan

If we make mistakes it is because of ignorance and reading inaccurate material about red squirrels and not because of lack of feeling. Dan

[CritterMom]

Why on earth would you think that we haven't tried to get as much calcium into Peanut as we can? We've used the syringe idea and I've been coaxing him to eat tums with peanut butter all morning. We could not be taking this more seriously. Dan

We are sorry. When we hear things about how the squirrels doesn't like it, etc., many people just stop trying. MBD is probably the first, second and third most common issue we deal with here and ANY sign that the calcium isn't going in makes our collective blood run cold because we know how dangerous the situation is. I am very glad we misjudged what you were saying and the little cutie is getting what he needs.

Do ready the diet threads that have been linked. They have very specific dietary needs and not meeting them can be disastrous.

[kimnnee]

We have been getting the calcium in him he's eaten approx 2 tablets approx 1000 mg so far likes it best with peanut butter I crushed a tablet n mixed it with smooth peanut butter n he's been eating that. Syringed it in him yesterday n he is already more active we put his sleeping home on the floor so he won't Fall. And took away the other foods so he'll eat the pub with calcium. He is better n we love him just cause I don't exclaim and go crazy on the forum doesn't mean we don't care his lil belly is just so big. There is nothing he eats or drinks that isn't calcium lined.
tried so we can help![/QUOTE]

[SammysMom]

Why is his belly so big?

[farrelli]

He doesn't need that much. He only needs about 350mg, though spread over the course of the day. Tons more isn't tons better. Just make sure he's actually getting at least the 350mg. It would be hard to OD him at this point, but it can cause constipation and other things, so you don't want to overdo it too much. With 1000mg over the last day, his poops might actually turn white.

What do you mean his belly is "so big"? Is he bloated? Is he still pooping and peeing?

[jbtartell]

also watch his poops.. if they start turning light grey or whitish that is a sign of to much calcium.. but do as they are saying it works.. MBD is a horrible way for them to die and it can happen fast soo that is why it is imperative to listen to them and communicate clearly. and do what they say no matter what it takes and quickly..:thumbsup

[kimnnee]

I think he's doing better. The 1000 mg has been in the last 2 days he is pooping and peeing normal he's is more active than he was before. I didn't mean anything about his belly except he can only eat so much. Everything else on him is great. We will keep with the 350 a day so if any changes we will tell all of you. We didn't want anyone to think we weren't doing as you all said we've done it all. And its working we will keep it going for a while til we see he's back to normal thank u.

[CritterMom]

OK. We are just paranoid!

If you click on my name above where it says CritterMom nest to the squirrel, you can send me a private message that won't show on the board. If you send me your name and mailing address, on Thursday I will mail you out some plain, unflavored calcium powder - it is nice because it has NO flavor so you can hide it in anything, and the dosage will be just about 1/4 teaspoon for the entire day, so it is pretty easy to get it into him. I will also send you some of the blocks that were mentioned earlier in the thread. They are made to help treat and prevent MBD and are made by one of our members here. As far as I am concerned they should be part of the MBD treatment and he should have them for the rest of his life. The people who make it are on vacation until January but I bought a bunch to make sure I had plenty and can part with a few for you. I know you mentioned that he cannot eat hard things because of his teeth - these are NOTHING like the blocks you have seen in pet stores - they are not hard. They remind me of cubes of slightly stale pumpernickel bread - sort of tough but not hard and crunchy.

[kimnnee]

No we understand that now but we would never give up I adopted 3 special needs children they were supposed to live approx 1 year or less that's how special they were but I never gave up and they lived 3 1/2 yrs for my Angel Joshy, 5 yrs for my lil man Zachy and 8 years for my daughter Stormy so we never give up. We have looked at the diets n will follow them to. Thanx

[TubeDriver]

Great offer Crittermom!:thumbsup



OK. We are just paranoid!

If you click on my name above where it says CritterMom nest to the squirrel, you can send me a private message that won't show on the board. If you send me your name and mailing address, on Thursday I will mail you out some plain, unflavored calcium powder - it is nice because it has NO flavor so you can hide it in anything, and the dosage will be just about 1/4 teaspoon for the entire day, so it is pretty easy to get it into him. I will also send you some of the blocks that were mentioned earlier in the thread. They are made to help treat and prevent MBD and are made by one of our members here. As far as I am concerned they should be part of the MBD treatment and he should have them for the rest of his life. The people who make it are on vacation until January but I bought a bunch to make sure I had plenty and can part with a few for you. I know you mentioned that he cannot eat hard things because of his teeth - these are NOTHING like the blocks you have seen in pet stores - they are not hard. They remind me of cubes of slightly stale pumpernickel bread - sort of tough but not hard and crunchy.

[Nancy in New York]

The 350mg that you give your little one is for a 24 hour period.
Oh by the way, REDS are my absolute favorite. :)

[CritterMom]

Friday, not Thusday. Can you tell I have BIG Christmas plans? :rotfl

[sdreamcatcher]

Your little red baby is adorable :Love_Icon :Love_Icon. Peanut is very lucky to have people like you willing to do everything for him, and I am glad he is already improving.

[nchls_school]

How much have you gotten into him?

It seems like you're not serious because you're either not listing all the things that you've tried or aren't trying very many. MBD is one of the most common things that we deal with here with new users. We've all been on, literally, hundreds of cases and this one doesn't seem to be getting it done. Maybe it's a communications issue? Just list all the things you've tried. What forms and flavors of calcium have you tried, in what fashion, and in/or what foods?

I appreciate the information that you and the group have given. You have given hope where there was very little. But, you should consider the feelings of the people that care for the animals that this site is about. Now I think I will leave the posts to my wife.

[kimnnee]

Thank you so much he is the size of my hand so small I love his fingers n toes it amazes me there are 5 toes five fingers so adorable did you notice there is no scent from day one he is so clean I can just bury my face in his fur for kisses. But when I'm not well I steer clear just in case. We love how red he is so fall in red color. Beautiful. We everyone have a great Christmas.

[kimnnee]

Thank you so much he is the size of my hand WI small I love his fingers n toes it amazes me there are 5 toes five fingers so adorable did you notice there is no scent from day one he is so clean I can just bury my face in his fur for kisses. But when I'm not well I steer clear just in case. We love how red he is so fall in red color. :sereneBeautiful. We everyone have a great Christmas.

[TubeDriver]

Please forgive us if we seem a little intense. It is just that we have seen MBD many, many times and while it can often be reversed with prompt treatment, it also maims or kills many squirrels when the treatment is too late or not followed through with.

You have a beautiful little red, we just want to help you so that your squirrel can live a long and happy life. One of the most difficult things about MBD is that there seems to be a tipping point at which recovery really does not happen. It is hard to judge when this tipping point occurs and although it seems like you have caught this early enough with your red, we jump into battle stations here to try and get treatment started ASAP.

It can be tough trying to figure out how to get the Calcium in your squirrel, different approaches work with different squirrels. Keep at it and make it work! We will offer suggestions as to what we have found to work and you will figure out what works best for your little red.

I know it is difficult wading through multiple reponses here to try and figure out what to do but even with these limitations, there is a ton of info, experience and good will here to use.

Good luck!:thumbsup



I appreciate the information that you and the group have given. You have given hope where there was very little. But, you should consider the feelings of the people that care for the animals that this site is about. Now I think I will leave the posts to my wife.

[Annabelle's papa]

Please forgive us if we seem a little intense. It is just that we have seen MBD many, many times and while it can often be reversed with prompt treatment, it also maims or kills many squirrels when the treatment is too late or not followed through with.

You have a beautiful little red, we just want to help you so that your squirrel can live a long and happy life. One of the most difficult things about MBD is that there seems to be a tipping point at which recovery really does not happen. It is hard to judge when this tipping point occurs and although it seems like you have caught this early enough with your red, we jump into battle stations here to try and get treatment started ASAP.

It can be tough trying to figure out how to get the Calcium in your squirrel, different approaches work with different squirrels. Keep at it and make it work! We will offer suggestions as to what we have found to work and you will figure out what works best for your little red.

I know it is difficult wading through multiple reponses here to try and figure out what to do but even with these limitations, there is a ton of info, experience and good will here to use.

Good luck!:thumbsup

:goodpost TD, When I see ya'll GO INTO ACTION the way ya'll do, It reminds me of an Emergency Room Trauma Team. The biggest difference isn't that it concerns an animal,(Because I Feel Animals Deserve As Much If Not More Than Humans,) BUT the fact ya'll don't have the Patient in front of you. Therefore, the treatment is performed Remotely, through the hands of Someone Else. Simular to when the Control Tower has to Talk A Passenger Into Landing An Airplane Safely.:tilt Hey Dan,:wave123 you and your Wife have Performed Miracles :Love_Icon With your Children,:grouphug God Bless You and Please keep posting.And Ya'll Have A Merry Christmas.CM2276

[nchls_school]

Please forgive us if we seem a little intense. It is just that we have seen MBD many, many times and while it can often be reversed with prompt treatment, it also maims or kills many squirrels when the treatment is too late or not followed through with.

You have a beautiful little red, we just want to help you so that your squirrel can live a long and happy life. One of the most difficult things about MBD is that there seems to be a tipping point at which recovery really does not happen. It is hard to judge when this tipping point occurs and although it seems like you have caught this early enough with your red, we jump into battle stations here to try and get treatment started ASAP.

It can be tough trying to figure out how to get the Calcium in your squirrel, different approaches work with different squirrels. Keep at it and make it work! We will offer suggestions as to what we have found to work and you will figure out what works best for your little red.

I know it is difficult wading through multiple reponses here to try and figure out what to do but even with these limitations, there is a ton of info, experience and good will here to use.

Good luck!:thumbsup

Past bad experiences with groups have left me quick to take offense. I have not answered many posts because of difficulties in using my hands, but I have read every word. The problem of getting the right amount of tums/calcium has been solved. I ground up one tums (500mg) with a half of pecan, added a little water-rolled it into a ball. Peanut ate almost half. I will remove the other half. From what I read half a tums is correct for one day? Or should it be a little more? Dan

[CritterMom]

How many milligrams of calcium is in your Tums? They make 500, 750 and 1000.

Try to spread the calcium out into little doses through the day, as they do pee it out.

Edit: OK, maybe I should learn to read. 500mg - so closer to 3/4 of a Tums would be appropriate.

[TubeDriver]

Excellent. :thumbsup. Figuring out what works is half the battle. As Crittermom stated, about 3/4 of a 500mg Tums is what you are aiming for per day. It is best to try and spread this over the course of a day or at least break it into morning/afternoon/evening dosing so his calcium level remains fairly consistent throughout the day.



Past bad experiences with groups have left me quick to take offense. I have not answered many posts because of difficulties in using my hands, but I have read every word. The problem of getting the right amount of tums/calcium has been solved. I ground up one tums (500mg) with a half of pecan, added a little water-rolled it into a ball. Peanut ate almost half. I will remove the other half. From what I read half a tums is correct for one day? Or should it be a little more? Dan

[nchls_school]

Excellent. :thumbsup. Figuring out what works is half the battle. As Crittermom stated, about 3/4 of a 500mg Tums is what you are aiming for per day. It is best to try and spread this over the course of a day or at least break it into morning/afternoon/evening dosing so his calcium level remains fairly consistent throughout the day.

Spreading it over the day should be easy as Peanut only eats a small amount at a time. I'm thinking that tums, pecan, and water is less likely to go bad compared to a peanut butter mixture and the squirrel seems to like it better. We have no pet store close by. Tomorrow I'm going to see my mother in a town that has a Farm and Fleet. They have a large pet area. The nearest pet store is a hour and a half away. If Farm and Fleet doesn't have the appropriate rodent/squirrel block I'll drive the half hour more to the pet store. Dan

[CritterMom]

Dan, there just isn't much in the stores that is really appropriate. You do NOT want any rat type food that has stuff like corn kernels and that in it. And even if you find something, they taste pretty dismal and most animals just don't LIKE them. The stuff I am gonna send you guys is super high quality - almost a supplement and food combined - and because the person who came up with the recipe is a squirrel person, and knows what we are up against as far as feeding them healthy foods, made it TASTE GOOD TOO (novel idea). Hopefully they will get to you the first of next week.

[nchls_school]

Dan, there just isn't much in the stores that is really appropriate. You do NOT want any rat type food that has stuff like corn kernels and that in it. And even if you find something, they taste pretty dismal and most animals just don't LIKE them. The stuff I am gonna send you guys is super high quality - almost a supplement and food combined - and because the person who came up with the recipe is a squirrel person, and knows what we are up against as far as feeding them healthy foods, made it TASTE GOOD TOO (novel idea). Hopefully they will get to you the first of next week.

Then we will wait and thank you; I'm not good at waiting though. I just wish I'd realized sooner that something was wrong. I've had many different types of rodents in the past. Having Peanut is a learning experience. When we first got Peanut I was expecting something like a gerbil or hamster/guinea pig/rabbit. Boy was that thought way off the mark. Squirrels seem to have very little in common with other rodents. Dan

[farrelli]

Has he recovered all mobility? What are you feeding him at this point? If he doesn't like the HHBs that you're being sent, like I said, we've been down that road a million times before and there are solutions. You can't take "no" for an answer.

[nchls_school]

Has he recovered all mobility? What are you feeding him at this point? If he doesn't like the HHBs that you're being sent, like I said, we've been down that road a million times before and there are solutions. You can't take "no" for an answer.

Being at work all day I did not realize how much Peanut's health had gone downhill. He is not playing with the toys at all. He does seem alert and still likes to have mock battles with our fingers. As for eating I do not think he is eating as he should. Most of the time he's sleeping. We're giving him the mixture of tums and pecan along with a little green food and nothing more. He has not eaten more than the 3/4 tums mix. Occasionally he comes out and nibbles on the mixture and the greens. Mobility seems a bit better, but that might be wishful thinking on our part. Dan

[CritterMom]

The MBD hurts. With the diet too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium, first the blood calcium levels drop and to compensate, the body begins to leach calcium from the bones to replace it. After that happens for a bit, the bones begin to weaken like a woman with osteoporosis. You are seeing that now. It is going to take some time for him to get back to normal and in fact you want to try to slow him down for a while because the bones ARE weak and what wouldn't hurt them normally can break them now.

We often recommend trying to supply some heat via a heating pad like when he was a baby but that can be difficult depending on how he is caged - you don't want him chewing wires. You can also give him infant ibuprophen - we would need his weight and can give you dosing info for that.

What did he like to eat before this started - what were his favorites? Have you ever offered avocado (peeled and pitted - never feed the peel and pit) to him? Some of the like the taste of Ensure - the nutrition milk shakes for humans, and while not a permanent diet they can be a good way to get nutrition into him short term until he feels better and his appetite improves.

[farrelli]

I was just about to mention Ensure. Most seem to either like that or Nutra-Cal (same idea, but for animals). His pain my be compromising his appetite, as would an abrupt change in diet. Make sure he stays hydrated, that he's eating, and that he's getting the calcium. If he starts to tank and becomes lethargic, some molasses (rubbed on his gums if necessary) will often bring them around enough so that you can force some food into them. Maple syrup, and then any other syrup are second and third best. You should really keep an ongoing log of what and how much he consumes at this point. You don't want to enter a downward spiral that's hard to exit.

[nchls_school]

The MBD hurts. With the diet too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium, first the blood calcium levels drop and to compensate, the body begins to leach calcium from the bones to replace it. After that happens for a bit, the bones begin to weaken like a woman with osteoporosis. You are seeing that now. It is going to take some time for him to get back to normal and in fact you want to try to slow him down for a while because the bones ARE weak and what wouldn't hurt them normally can break them now.

We often recommend trying to supply some heat via a heating pad like when he was a baby but that can be difficult depending on how he is caged - you don't want him chewing wires. You can also give him infant ibuprophen - we would need his weight and can give you dosing info for that.

What did he like to eat before this started - what were his favorites? Have you ever offered avocado (peeled and pitted - never feed the peel and pit) to him? Some of the like the taste of Ensure - the nutrition milk shakes for humans, and while not a permanent diet they can be a good way to get nutrition into him short term until he feels better and his appetite improves.

Our home is kept at 80+. Both my wife I have problems with arthritis. I have a heating pad, but Peanut shows no signs of being cold. We use a wooden finch box for a nest box for Peanut. The box is lined with soft fabric.

I have a gram scale that I use with the birds and I'll pick up the infant ibuprofen. The foods he likes the best are pine nuts (yes, I know...now), bread, pecans, broccoli, cabbage, and crisp lettuces. We have not tried avocado but will do so tomorrow and we have ensure (how to feed?). The teeth make it very hard for him to chew things that are hard. He is not able to open the shell of peanuts or pecans with out them being cracked first. This we did until it was obvious that no amount of chewing would help wear down the teeth. The hardest material Peanut seems able to chew are the peanut kernels and that with difficulty within days of having his teeth trimmed.

Peanut has never been allowed to run free. When we have him out of the cage he stays on us (shoulders, lap, arms, etc.). His cage is a large conure (small parrot) cage with several perches to climb on. He does not make any effort to climb so I haven't removed the perches (maybe I should). The floor of his cage is half lined with sandpaper to help keep his nails at the right length. The other half the cage floor is covered with a soft towel. Dan

[nchls_school]

I was just about to mention Ensure. Most seem to either like that or Nutra-Cal (same idea, but for animals). His pain my be compromising his appetite, as would an abrupt change in diet. Make sure he stays hydrated, that he's eating, and that he's getting the calcium. If he starts to tank and becomes lethargic, some molasses (rubbed on his gums if necessary) will often bring them around enough so that you can force some food into them. Maple syrup, and then any other syrup are second and third best. You should really keep an ongoing log of what and how much he consumes at this point. You don't want to enter a downward spiral that's hard to exit.

Peanut is rather odd in some ways. I'm not sure why but he seems unable to drink well from a water bottle (teeth). When we first got him I watched him struggle to drink from it. He does better perching on a coffee cup with water in it. He drinks normally as far as amount is concerned.


Are all squirrels odor free? There is absolutely no smell to Peanut's cage. I've never had a rodent type animal that had no odor before and I've had a lot of different rodents as pets over the years. Thank you for the information. Dan

[CritterMom]

Our home is kept at 80+. Both my wife I have problems with arthritis. I have a heating pad, but Peanut shows no signs of being cold. We use a wooden finch box for a nest box for Peanut. The box is lined with soft fabric.

I have a gram scale that I use with the birds and I'll pick up the infant ibuprofen. The foods he likes the best are pine nuts (yes, I know...now), bread, pecans, broccoli, cabbage, and crisp lettuces. We have not tried avocado but will do so tomorrow and we have ensure (how to feed?). The teeth make it very hard for him to chew things that are hard. He is not able to open the shell of peanuts or pecans with out them being cracked first. This we did until it was obvious that no amount of chewing would help wear down the teeth. The hardest material Peanut seems able to chew are the peanut kernels and that with difficulty within days of having his teeth trimmed.

Peanut has never been allowed to run free. When we have him out of the cage he stays on us (shoulders, lap, arms, etc.). His cage is a large conure (small parrot) cage with several perches to climb on. He does not make any effort to climb so I haven't removed the perches (maybe I should). The floor of his cage is half lined with sandpaper to help keep his nails at the right length. The other half the cage floor is covered with a soft towel. Dan

A couple things: First, please replace the towel in the cage. Terry cloth is dangerous because their nails can get caught in the loops and pull threads out that can then get wrapped around limbs. This isn't theoretical - we had an adult squirrel have this happen less than a month ago and came very close to losing a foot. Furthermore, one of the very first symptoms people notice of MBD is their squirrel seeming to get it's nails snagged in things. What is actually happening is their limbs are getting weak and they are beginning to not have proper control - like how you tend to stumble when you are exhausted simply because you aren't lifting your feet properly. We like fleece a LOT on here - it is not woven like most fabric and so does not ravel into threads. I would replace any fabric in the cage that is woven.

You can try several methods for the ensure. I would warm it up first - same temp as formula. He might lap it out of a spoon if you offer it that way, or a little in a small dish. You may want to try syringe feeding it.

I dislike water bottles - they are hard to keep clean and people tend to get a little lax about that. I much prefer bowls, and I change the water at least twice a day. Squirrels are like every single animal I have ever tried this on - all my birds, squirrels, every dog I know, my horse - all of them LOVE to drink really warm water. I am talking pretty hot here - like shower temperature. A nice, refreshing glass of hot water...my wild squirrels will FIGHT at the birdbath when I put hot water in there...my little flying squirrel will stand in front of his water dish and stare at it every time I walk by so that I take it out and refill it with hot water. If you want to encourage more drinking, heat the water!

[farrelli]

Many people put pebbles in a shallow bowl so as to prevent tipping.

You can also see if he like yogurt (vanilla seems to be the most preferred flavor). No artificial sweeteners. Many people use it as a healthy treat, but while your guy is transitioning to a better diet and you're waiting on the blocks, this would be a nice addition to his diet.

Btw, pecan or vanilla seem to be the Ensure favorite flavors that most like best.

You know that bread is now out, right? It can be a sometimes treat once his diet is corrected.

[nchls_school]

A couple things: First, please replace the towel in the cage. Terry cloth is dangerous because their nails can get caught in the loops and pull threads out that can then get wrapped around limbs. This isn't theoretical - we had an adult squirrel have this happen less than a month ago and came very close to losing a foot. Furthermore, one of the very first symptoms people notice of MBD is their squirrel seeming to get it's nails snagged in things. What is actually happening is their limbs are getting weak and they are beginning to not have proper control - like how you tend to stumble when you are exhausted simply because you aren't lifting your feet properly. We like fleece a LOT on here - it is not woven like most fabric and so does not ravel into threads. I would replace any fabric in the cage that is woven.

You can try several methods for the ensure. I would warm it up first - same temp as formula. He might lap it out of a spoon if you offer it that way, or a little in a small dish. You may want to try syringe feeding it.

I dislike water bottles - they are hard to keep clean and people tend to get a little lax about that. I much prefer bowls, and I change the water at least twice a day. Squirrels are like every single animal I have ever tried this on - all my birds, squirrels, every dog I know, my horse - all of them LOVE to drink really warm water. I am talking pretty hot here - like shower temperature. A nice, refreshing glass of hot water...my wild squirrels will FIGHT at the birdbath when I put hot water in there...my little flying squirrel will stand in front of his water dish and stare at it every time I walk by so that I take it out and refill it with hot water. If you want to encourage more drinking, heat the water!

Kimmi has noticed Peanuts nails getting caught in the towel fibers, We'll be sure to replace it with fleece fabric. The coffee cup we use for water is big and heavy; it won't tip over. This morning is the first time I've seen the squirrel sitting on the rim of the cup to drink in a very long time. Drinking does not seem to be a problem; I've watched and Peanut drinks often. Before today he was bracing himself against the cage bars and leaning over the rim to drink. It's nice to see him acting more like he was before this calcium problem started. The droppings are now a grayish-white (a good sign?). The situation is improving; and this time it is not wishful thinking. Dan

[TubeDriver]

A couple things I wanted to mention.

Avocado is a great treat and useful when trying to add weight but remember that the pit and skin are deadly poisonous. Only the avocado meat can be used!

Greyish-whitish colored poops can mean an excess of calcium but I would not worry about that as long as this is nota consistent. It can also mean things like liver failure but that is not likely. Most probably his calcium level just spiked up so fast that he excreted the excess. If his poops are consisently whitish (for several days) you may want to reduce the calcium a bit from 375mg down to ~300mg.

The coffee cup works but that will require him to bakance on the lip? If you have any low, wide glass bowls that might make it easier for him to reach? Mywife has acouple of bowls that we use to put peanuts out when guest come over. They work great because they are low enough to prevent tipping andallow easy access to the water,no stones/pebbles needed because they are only 2" high.

[CritterMom]

That is great to hear.

Walmart and similar places usually have fleece lap throws for a couple dollars apiece. It is a lot cheaper than buying at the fabric store normally. They are usually bound on the edged with stitching. Cut the stitched edges off and pitch it in the dryer for about 20 minutes - the dryer will suck all the lint out of the cut edge so you aren't picking it off everything when you use it, and he won't get tangled in the hem if it comes loose.

The grayish white is excess calcium passing through that isn't being used.

Does Peanut's mom have any calcium supplements that she takes that have vitamin D in them? If so, can you put the milligrams of both up so we know what it is? I would like to get some D into him as well as the calcium. When you get the food I am sending you, it HAS the D in it but until you get the package we can add a bit of it to your Tums mixture.

[farrelli]

I mentioned before that when you were giving 1000g of calcium, and all in one blast as opposed to over the day, his poop might start to turn whitish. Have you reduced the level of calcium to about 350g and are now giving it over the course of the day and not just in one shot? There's little risk of calcium OD at this point, but far too much can cause constipation.

As to vitamin D, as I also mentioned earlier, I would also like to see some given to him BUT too much is toxic. It's actually used to kill rodents. It's fat soluble so it doesn't get flushed out, as such, if there's an OD, there's not much to do about it but hope he won't die. So, if you have some, let us know what it is and we can advise about how much to give.

[kimnnee]

I replaced the former towel that the loops were getting caught in his nails before anyone said fleece I cut up a fleece blanket and he will have those from now on. Peanut is different he doesn't like warm or hot water (shower) temp he likes room temp only. He's also in and out of his bed box eating and drinking great on all counts now so we will treat him with avocado later today I know about the skin n pit so I'll make sure. If any changes we will type but I'm sure it will just take time he seems to be a little better then 3 days ago so I'm thrilled we will keep it up with him and our hopes. Thanks again all. I will type later his weight then we will know from you all how much infant medicine to give him. :grin2 Kimmi

[nchls_school]

Has he recovered all mobility? What are you feeding him at this point? If he doesn't like the HHBs that you're being sent, like I said, we've been down that road a million times before and there are solutions. You can't take "no" for an answer.

The squirrel is able to move better but all mobility-no. The same as I posted before. Tums mixed with pecan ground up. When a substantial amount has been consumed he is given a small portion of cabbage/carrot/broccoli that's shredded. nchls_school

[nchls_school]

The MBD hurts. With the diet too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium, first the blood calcium levels drop and to compensate, the body begins to leach calcium from the bones to replace it. After that happens for a bit, the bones begin to weaken like a woman with osteoporosis. You are seeing that now. It is going to take some time for him to get back to normal and in fact you want to try to slow him down for a while because the bones ARE weak and what wouldn't hurt them normally can break them now.

We often recommend trying to supply some heat via a heating pad like when he was a baby but that can be difficult depending on how he is caged - you don't want him chewing wires. You can also give him infant ibuprophen - we would need his weight and can give you dosing info for that.

What did he like to eat before this started - what were his favorites? Have you ever offered avocado (peeled and pitted - never feed the peel and pit) to him? Some of the like the taste of Ensure - the nutrition milk shakes for humans, and while not a permanent diet they can be a good way to get nutrition into him short term until he feels better and his appetite improves.

Peanut weighs 112 grams. I hate shopping; there's never a clerk around when you need help finding something. I have the infant ibuprophen and an avocado. Is there any certain way to give avocado that is better? Peanut is eating the tums mixture well; would giving ensure and the tums mixture be more beneficial? If so we have that in the cupboard. Dan

[nchls_school]

Many people put pebbles in a shallow bowl so as to prevent tipping.

You can also see if he like yogurt (vanilla seems to be the most preferred flavor). No artificial sweeteners. Many people use it as a healthy treat, but while your guy is transitioning to a better diet and you're waiting on the blocks, this would be a nice addition to his diet.

Btw, pecan or vanilla seem to be the Ensure favorite flavors that most like best.

You know that bread is now out, right? It can be a sometimes treat once his diet is corrected.

No bread. nchls_school

[nchls_school]

A couple things I wanted to mention.

Avocado is a great treat and useful when trying to add weight but remember that the pit and skin are deadly poisonous. Only the avocado meat can be used!

Greyish-whitish colored poops can mean an excess of calcium but I would not worry about that as long as this is nota consistent. It can also mean things like liver failure but that is not likely. Most probably his calcium level just spiked up so fast that he excreted the excess. If his poops are consisently whitish (for several days) you may want to reduce the calcium a bit from 375mg down to ~300mg.

The coffee cup works but that will require him to bakance on the lip? If you have any low, wide glass bowls that might make it easier for him to reach? Mywife has acouple of bowls that we use to put peanuts out when guest come over. They work great because they are low enough to prevent tipping andallow easy access to the water,no stones/pebbles needed because they are only 2" high.

The coffee cup is positioned so that Peanut is able to drink without too much effort. Today he is able to perch on the rim to drink without difficulty; I think it best to not change what doesn't need to be changed. Oddly, at least to me, he show obvious distress when items are changed in his cage. Dan

[nchls_school]

That is great to hear.

Walmart and similar places usually have fleece lap throws for a couple dollars apiece. It is a lot cheaper than buying at the fabric store normally. They are usually bound on the edged with stitching. Cut the stitched edges off and pitch it in the dryer for about 20 minutes - the dryer will suck all the lint out of the cut edge so you aren't picking it off everything when you use it, and he won't get tangled in the hem if it comes loose.

The grayish white is excess calcium passing through that isn't being used.

Does Peanut's mom have any calcium supplements that she takes that have vitamin D in them? If so, can you put the milligrams of both up so we know what it is? I would like to get some D into him as well as the calcium. When you get the food I am sending you, it HAS the D in it but until you get the package we can add a bit of it to your Tums mixture.

Kimmi is checking to see if she has calcium with vitamin D. I bought Calcium tablets today but not with D. Dan

[nchls_school]

I mentioned before that when you were giving 1000g of calcium, and all in one blast as opposed to over the day, his poop might start to turn whitish. Have you reduced the level of calcium to about 350g and are now giving it over the course of the day and not just in one shot? There's little risk of calcium OD at this point, but far too much can cause constipation.

As to vitamin D, as I also mentioned earlier, I would also like to see some given to him BUT too much is toxic. It's actually used to kill rodents. It's fat soluble so it doesn't get flushed out, as such, if there's an OD, there's not much to do about it but hope he won't die. So, if you have some, let us know what it is and we can advise about how much to give.

1000g was the dosage Kimmi used the first day when using eye dropper/syringe; the syringe definitely worked better. After that we were careful not to exceed 350g mixed with ground pecan. Today I gave less; 250-300g. After the first day, the calcium was given throughout much of the day. Dan

[Nancy in New York]

Peanut weighs 112 grams. I hate shopping; there's never a clerk around when you need help finding something. I have the infant ibuprophen and an avocado. Is there any certain way to give avocado that is better? Peanut is eating the tums mixture well; would giving ensure and the tums mixture be more beneficial? If so we have that in the cupboard. Dan

I will send you the dosing for the infant ibuprophen.
Do you have a 1 cc syringe?

[CritterMom]

Peanut weighs 112 grams. I hate shopping; there's never a clerk around when you need help finding something. I have the infant ibuprophen and an avocado. Is there any certain way to give avocado that is better? Peanut is eating the tums mixture well; would giving ensure and the tums mixture be more beneficial? If so we have that in the cupboard. Dan

Giving the ensure along with the tums would be a great idea. I would like to get a little Vitamin D in him to help him utilize the calcium and the ensure will provide that.:thumbsup

Make sure you feed only the meat of the avocado - no peel or pit. Just cut a little cube of it and see what he does - a lot of them treat it like squirrely crack - they can't get enough! It has lots of healthy fat and when they aren't eating a lot that can help. If he loves it, it will also be an easy way for you to give him calcium, without having to mess with syringing him.

I shipped your package today - you will get it Monday. I sent you two different "flavors" of the squirrel block - some of the regular adult formula: http://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-blocks-adult-formula/ and some of the "Picky bites": http://www.henryspets.com/picky-blocks-adult-formula/. That way you can determine which is his favorite before you order them. Ideally, he should be eating 1 to 1.5 of them a day. They are a lovely product, designed specifically for squirrels with an eye to tasting good, and fully fortified with all of the nutrients he needs and that are very difficult to provide. With healthy veggies and occasional fruit and nut treats, it is a complete diet.

I also sent you a baggie of calcium carbonate powder. It doesn't really have much taste - so you can easily hide it in food. I like to put it between two thin sliced of avocado - like a little calcium sandwich, but you can really sprinkle it on or in anything he likes to eat.

Because he is so small - wow; 112 grams - lets REDUCE the amount of calcium he is getting. Right now you are giving almost 3/4 of a 500mg Tums a day. Drop down to right about half of the tablet. When you get the package, you will REPLACE the Tums with the powder - don't give both.

OK, this is where the math comes in. Let's say that probably for the next week or so, you are going to get about 275mg of calcium TOTAL into him per day.

The Henry's squirrel blocks have approximately 100 mg of calcium in each one. So if he eats one block, he has already eaten 100 mg of his daily calcium, dosage, leaving 175mg left for the day. That is 1/8 teaspoon of the calcium powder, to be given through the day. That is not very much and you will easily be able to hide it in his food. Don't just sprinkle it indiscriminately everywhere - more is not better, and you want to be sure of how much he gets, so use stuff he always eats ALL of - or keep hiding it in the peanut butter if that works well.

It would be very helpful for everyone if you keep this thread going. In probably a week or so, you are going to start very slowly stepping down the amount of additional calcium you are giving him, and eventually he won't need it as long as he continues to eat the Henry's food. But when that stepping down process should begin will be driven by how he is doing and we need you to be our eyes so we can help with that.

The Henry's food has no preservatives. Put a couple of each of them in a baggie or something in the refrigerator and the balance in the freezer, taking them out as needed. And when you order from Henry's, make sure you let her know you are a TSB member - you will get a 10% discount.

I will PM you dosing info for the ibuprophen. They tolerate it well but if you say he is eating and drinking normally, he may not need it. You know your baby - if you think he hurts, by all means give it to him. They normally love the flavor! You will need a 1cc syringe to give it - don't use the one that comes with it.

If you have ANY questions, please ask, even if you are pretty sure it doesn't mean anything.

Oops - looks like Nancy got you the ibuprophen dosing. She's too quick for me!

[nchls_school]

I will send you the dosing for the infant ibuprophen.
Do you have a 1 cc syringe?

Yes. We have the 1 cc syringe.

[Nancy in New York]

Yes. We have the 1 cc syringe.

Perfect! So you see where the arrow is for the infant ibuprophen, in
the photo I pm'd.
I sometimes get overly cautious dosing.........but again, we have seen
TOO many mistakes, so I like to be extra careful. :thumbsup :)

[nchls_school]

So far I have been too worried to think past getting Peanut better; and better he is. Thank you group. Now I'm curious. I know nothing about any of you. Inquiring minds want to know. Who are you? What kind of squirrel/animals do you have? Are all species of squirrels similar? What about the lack of unpleasant odors? Are all squirrels so clean and fastidious? Will Peanut stay as playful as he is as he gets older? What kind of changes should we expect? I know that Kimmi probably has many questions too. Should I be asking these questions on a different part of the squirrel board? How on earth do you keep everything straight about this forum? I haven't belonged to a group in a decade. Things have changed a lot. And this boggles my mind. Dan

[nchls_school]

Perfect! So you see where the arrow is for the infant ibuprophen, in
the photo I pm'd.
I sometimes get overly cautious dosing.........but again, we have seen
TOO many mistakes, so I like to be extra careful. :thumbsup :)

The photo is clear as what to do. Dan

[CritterMom]

So far I have been too worried to think past getting Peanut better; and better he is. Thank you group. Now I'm curious. I know nothing about any of you. Inquiring minds want to know. Who are you? What kind of squirrel/animals do you have? Are all species of squirrels similar? What about the lack of unpleasant odors? Are all squirrels so clean and fastidious? Will Peanut stay as playful as he is as he gets older? What kind of changes should we expect? I know that Kimmi probably has many questions too. Should I be asking these questions on a different part of the squirrel board? How on earth do you keep everything straight about this forum? I haven't belonged to a group in a decade. Things have changed a lot. And this boggles my mind. Dan

We are everyone! You will find all religions, political beliefs, etc., represented here - we are united by an interest in and love of squirrels. Some are licensed rehabbers, some are not, some actually have squirrels living with them like you, some get their squirrels fix from their outdoor buddies. We have regular posters from the US, Canada, Australia, Costa Rica, Bali, England, and less regular from many other countries.

As you may have noticed, it is a very busy board. If you post an emergency, you WILL get a response fast - usually within a few minutes. But if there is an emergency happening, it often steals all of the attention and you may ask a question and not get an answer, just because everyone is otherwise occupied. Just ask again!

They are all pretty clean - they don't poop and pee in their nests and groom all the time. I would imagine staying as scent free as possible is very important when things are looking to make you lunch! As far as behavior, I will leave that to someone who has more experience with little red squirrels since they are very different from the grays.

Here is a secret: See where it says "New Posts" under the banner that says "The Squirrel Board?" If you click that every time you open the site, it will bring up ONLY threads that have been updated since the last time you clicked "new posts" and will make your life a LOT easier. But when you have time, looking through things like our caging threads, and the nutrition section, are very educational. You will be an old pro in no time!

[nchls_school]

Giving the ensure along with the tums would be a great idea. I would like to get a little Vitamin D in him to help him utilize the calcium and the ensure will provide that.:thumbsup

Make sure you feed only the meat of the avocado - no peel or pit. Just cut a little cube of it and see what he does - a lot of them treat it like squirrely crack - they can't get enough! It has lots of healthy fat and when they aren't eating a lot that can help. If he loves it, it will also be an easy way for you to give him calcium, without having to mess with syringing him.

I shipped your package today - you will get it Monday. I sent you two different "flavors" of the squirrel block - some of the regular adult formula: http://www.henryspets.com/squirrel-blocks-adult-formula/ and some of the "Picky bites": http://www.henryspets.com/picky-blocks-adult-formula/. That way you can determine which is his favorite before you order them. Ideally, he should be eating 1 to 1.5 of them a day. They are a lovely product, designed specifically for squirrels with an eye to tasting good, and fully fortified with all of the nutrients he needs and that are very difficult to provide. With healthy veggies and occasional fruit and nut treats, it is a complete diet.

I also sent you a baggie of calcium carbonate powder. It doesn't really have much taste - so you can easily hide it in food. I like to put it between two thin sliced of avocado - like a little calcium sandwich, but you can really sprinkle it on or in anything he likes to eat.

Because he is so small - wow; 112 grams - lets REDUCE the amount of calcium he is getting. Right now you are giving almost 3/4 of a 500mg Tums a day. Drop down to right about half of the tablet. When you get the package, you will REPLACE the Tums with the powder - don't give both.

OK, this is where the math comes in. Let's say that probably for the next week or so, you are going to get about 275mg of calcium TOTAL into him per day.

The Henry's squirrel blocks have approximately 100 mg of calcium in each one. So if he eats one block, he has already eaten 100 mg of his daily calcium, dosage, leaving 175mg left for the day. That is 1/8 teaspoon of the calcium powder, to be given through the day. That is not very much and you will easily be able to hide it in his food. Don't just sprinkle it indiscriminately everywhere - more is not better, and you want to be sure of how much he gets, so use stuff he always eats ALL of - or keep hiding it in the peanut butter if that works well.

It would be very helpful for everyone if you keep this thread going. In probably a week or so, you are going to start very slowly stepping down the amount of additional calcium you are giving him, and eventually he won't need it as long as he continues to eat the Henry's food. But when that stepping down process should begin will be driven by how he is doing and we need you to be our eyes so we can help with that.

The Henry's food has no preservatives. Put a couple of each of them in a baggie or something in the refrigerator and the balance in the freezer, taking them out as needed. And when you order from Henry's, make sure you let her know you are a TSB member - you will get a 10% discount.

I will PM you dosing info for the ibuprophen. They tolerate it well but if you say he is eating and drinking normally, he may not need it. You know your baby - if you think he hurts, by all means give it to him. They normally love the flavor! You will need a 1cc syringe to give it - don't use the one that comes with it.

If you have ANY questions, please ask, even if you are pretty sure it doesn't mean anything.

Oops - looks like Nancy got you the ibuprophen dosing. She's too quick for me!

Peanut looks to be doing well, but I'm concerned about the absence of droppings this morning. As I said, Peanut appears to be alright. I do not know what to look for in his appearance. Is there another way to determine if constipation is occurring? Dan

[SammysMom]

Does his tummy feel bloated or harder than you are accustomed to? If he isn't eating a lot, he won't poop a lot.:grin3

[nchls_school]

Does his tummy feel bloated or harder than you are accustomed to? If he isn't eating a lot, he won't poop a lot.:grin3

I worry too much. He's fine. He's playing more than he has in quite a while. Yes, he is eating; and more. Definitely more active. No bloat or hardness. And he's gripping our fingers with his back feet and the front paws have an even stronger grip than yesterday. Funny, he's rolling around, hiding in his blanket and then peeking out. The Ibuprophen has really helped...and fast. Question-We gave him a bird cuttle bone and he's chewing; something soft enough to chew and a good source of calcium. Has anyone tried these with squirrels? They are a must with our birds; they also require additional calcium. I wish I had thought of them before. Dan

[Annabelle's papa]

So far I have been too worried to think past getting Peanut better; and better he is. Thank you group. Now I'm curious. I know nothing about any of you. Inquiring minds want to know. Who are you? What kind of squirrel/animals do you have? Are all species of squirrels similar? What about the lack of unpleasant odors? Are all squirrels so clean and fastidious? Will Peanut stay as playful as he is as he gets older? What kind of changes should we expect? I know that Kimmi probably has many questions too. Should I be asking these questions on a different part of the squirrel board? How on earth do you keep everything straight about this forum? I haven't belonged to a group in a decade. Things have changed a lot. And this boggles my mind. Dan

Hi Dan, I'm a Newbie myself, and the information and guidance I received from TSB saved the life of our 65 gram Southern Flying Squirrel Annabelle. She came into our Family in Oct. of this year, and without finding the proper diet, ect. She would no longer be alive. I as you,(you mentioned having Birds) have taken care of, helped rescue, and shared my life with Animals for decades. But had no idea of the specific needs that captive Squirrels require. I know your attention is directed on caring for the little Fuzzer your treating at the present, by following the time tested protocol you've been directed with. However, soon He will be much better and you will still have many more questions as he gets older. And while posting to ask these said questions, you will find yourself answering questions or giving advice to others. And when this happens, you will find that now in fact you are a member of this group which you inquire about. There is probably a myriad of vital information you could find yourself providing to others. But take your time with your little Red, as CritterMom and everyone else suggested, and as they said, it's going to take a good deal of time to get Him through this, because it took a good deal of time for Him to get in this shape.

[CritterMom]

Worry is good. Calcium CAN be constipating - it is why I told you to back off the amount you are giving him when I got his weight. Just like us - more veggies and plenty of water usually does the trick.

I always have cuttlebones in the enclosures but only my flying squirrel uses it. My gray loves deer antlers - I get the sheds and clean them and anchor them to the wire - the SOUND when he chews is just awful - like fingernails on the chalkboard on steroids, but he loves them!

[SammysMom]

Cuttlebone is wonderful for them! I am so glad to hear that things are going better. The one warning that I will give is to be careful with the ibuprofen. It can make them feel well enough that they jump or do other things that can cause injury. Pain is the body's alarm system to prevent us from doing more damage. Letting her alarm hold her back a bit is okay. You don't want your baby to feel so good that more injury occurs. You are doing a great job!:grouphug

[nchls_school]

Cuttlebone is wonderful for them! I am so glad to hear that things are going better. The one warning that I will give is to be careful with the ibuprofen. It can make them feel well enough that they jump or do other things that can cause injury. Pain is the body's alarm system to prevent us from doing more damage. Letting her alarm hold her back a bit is okay. You don't want your baby to feel so good that more injury occurs. You are doing a great job!:grouphug

Yes. I've been wondering about that. Peanut played, ate, and climbed all over his cage for more than an hour. It's been a long time since he has been this active; three weeks. How to be careful is what I need to know. Kimmi is thrilled that Peanut is acting more like himself, but we both know this could be unhealthy. How do you tell when not to give ibuprofen? Seeing him like this shows us how much pain he has been in and is in. Dan

[nchls_school]

Hi Dan, I'm a Newbie myself, and the information and guidance I received from TSB saved the life of our 65 gram Southern Flying Squirrel Annabelle. She came into our Family in Oct. of this year, and without finding the proper diet, ect. She would no longer be alive. I as you,(you mentioned having Birds) have taken care of, helped rescue, and shared my life with Animals for decades. But had no idea of the specific needs that captive Squirrels require. I know your attention is directed on caring for the little Fuzzer your treating at the present, by following the time tested protocol you've been directed with. However, soon He will be much better and you will still have many more questions as he gets older. And while posting to ask these said questions, you will find yourself answering questions or giving advice to others. And when this happens, you will find that now in fact you are a member of this group which you inquire about. There is probably a myriad of vital information you could find yourself providing to others. But take your time with your little Red, as CritterMom and everyone else suggested, and as they said, it's going to take a good deal of time to get Him through this, because it took a good deal of time for Him to get in this shape.

Hello Annabelle,

Having this squirrel is way different than what I expected; I kept thinking of him as like a gerbil or hamster. I should have been comparing him to our parrots. Peanut has a lot more in common with the birds than he does to any other rodent. The intelligence, the playfulness, the dietary requirements are quite similar to our sun conures and cockatiels. Live and learn. Dan

[Annabelle's papa]

Cuttlebone is wonderful for them! I am so glad to hear that things are going better. The one warning that I will give is to be careful with the ibuprofen. It can make them feel well enough that they jump or do other things that can cause injury. Pain is the body's alarm system to prevent us from doing more damage. Letting her alarm hold her back a bit is okay. You don't want your baby to feel so good that more injury occurs. You are doing a great job!:grouphug

Hi Dan, As SammysMom was saying, you kinda have to balance the Pain reliever with the Pain so he doesn't become to active while his bones are still frail. Unless he appears to be really suffering or anguished, I would hold off on any more pain reliever. Anyway, I was just stopping by to ask you to post a few pictures so the rest of us can say ahhhhhh, and look at his cute little face. Thanks!

[Annabelle's papa]

Hello Annabelle,

Having this squirrel is way different than what I expected; I kept thinking of him as like a gerbil or hamster. I should have been comparing him to our parrots. Peanut has a lot more in common with the birds than he does to any other rodent. The intelligence, the playfulness, the dietary requirements are quite similar to our sun conures and cockatiels. Live and learn. Dan

Hi again Dan, I appreciate the reply, and you are right about the comparisons. I still haven't asked anyone if Squirrel bones are semi hollow like a Bird, or are more cartilage based such as a Rat or Shark!:eek

[SammysMom]

It is totally okay to use the pain reliever. I guess I just mean to not let her do a lot of climbing or really, any climbing. You just want to be sure she is well contained and can't fall.

[nchls_school]

Hi Dan, As SammysMom was saying, you kinda have to balance the Pain reliever with the Pain so he doesn't become to active while his bones are still frail. Unless he appears to be really suffering or anguished, I would hold off on any more pain reliever. Anyway, I was just stopping by to ask you to post a few pictures so the rest of us can say ahhhhhh, and look at his cute little face. Thanks!

Peanut before he became ill. I think there is duplicates. Dan

249042249043249044249045

[nchls_school]

Peanut before he became ill. I think there is duplicates. Dan

249042249043249044249045

No duplicates. I'll figure out how everything works yet. Dan

[SammysMom]

Oh good grief! Too cute!!!

[Nancy in New York]

Akkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...............there is just nothing cuter than a little red. :grin2
I don't think their pictures actually do them justice, showing their true size,
because they are quite tiny, even full grown. :)

[nchls_school]

Oh good grief! Too cute!!!

He's impossible to resist. He has a new favorite food-avocado. He's shown preferences before, but avocado got the biggest reaction of all; what a little pig. Kimmi held a spoon of it by his nest box door and the little goof grabbed the whole thing and pulled it into his house to eat. I've never seen him eat in the nest box. Whenever we entice him out of the box wih food he's always grabbed it and brought it out to eat. Peanut is definitely getting a lot better. Kimmi asks if you can post a few pictures of your squirrel. Dan

[nchls_school]

Akkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk...............there is just nothing cuter than a little red. :grin2
I don't think their pictures actually do them justice, showing their true size,
because they are quite tiny, even full grown. :)

You're right about that; the pictures may be cute, but nowhere as cute as the real thing.

[SammysMom]

Be careful what you wish for, Kimmee... I won't clutter up your thread. Here is one pic and the link to Sammy's thread...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?33778-Sammy-s-Thread&highlight=

[nchls_school]

Be careful what you wish for, Kimmee... I won't clutter up your thread. Here is one pic and the link to Sammy's thread...
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?33778-Sammy-s-Thread&highlight=

Cute, and soooo bigggg. Kimmi says she wants one and I say, "We have enough pets!"; right before I go out and get another-HA We need a farm!

[TubeDriver]

Great update.

[Annabelle's papa]

Great update.

Morning TD, I didn't know if anyone was up this early, and now I'm threadjacking Dans' sight to catch up. I saw on Sqyrls' s page that you really did mean Bicycles and not motorcycles, that's cool, I've been a dedicated in town biker for six years. I grocery shop and even do small loads of laundry on occasion, it breaks the boredom of just "Riding" with no particular goal except the ride. Shoot me back on your thread, considering I still haven't started a dedicated thread yet.

[Annabelle's papa]

You're right about that; the pictures may be cute, but nowhere as cute as the real thing.

Good Morning Dan and Kimnnee, Sorry about threadjacking, did ya'll have a good evening with your little one, or was it an up and down night of concern.:tilt Thanks for the pictures, did you see all of the ooooh's and aaaaah's from everybody. And Ms. Nancy in NY, gave a big aaaaaaaak, oh and I didn't mean ya'll were responsible for the calcium loss in the diet when I said "long time to get in this condition," I was referring to the different hands you said he came through before he made it to your's.:thumbsup

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh My Goodness!! :fluff2Peanut is the cutest thing! I want one.:grin2

[farrelli]

You might also try introducing spruce cones. Reds normally love them (and make a horrible mess with them), but I don;t know about this guy with his dental problems. On the other hand, if he does shred them, they might help keep his teeth down.

I can't remember if anyone answered a question I think you asked about what to expect with him in the future, but one thing is seasonal hormones. Once or more a year they can become a bit nasty, though it seems that girls can be worse then boys. We get tons of people on here showing up in tears that their baby has become a monster, but usually if you wait it out, they go back to being themselves. It can take a day or two months, but it usually happens. Sometimes not though, and we call that wilding up, and if they get miserable and seem to no longer be happy inside, and it doesn't go away, we'd have to think of other things because your guy is NR. We have someone else on here (Fireweed) who's had to deal with reds longing for the wild which can't be released, so that's been covered too.

Also, a lot of sqs tend to become one-person animals who, at best, grudgingly accept others and only really love their primary care taker. I;d just make sure that you both handle him a lot to try to avoid this, but it's no guarantee.

[nchls_school]

Good Morning Dan and Kimnnee, Sorry about threadjacking, did ya'll have a good evening with your little one, or was it an up and down night of concern.:tilt Thanks for the pictures, did you see all of the ooooh's and aaaaah's from everybody. And Ms. Nancy in NY, gave a big aaaaaaaak, oh and I didn't mean ya'll were responsible for the calcium loss in the diet when I said "long time to get in this condition," I was referring to the different hands you said he came through before he made it to your's.:thumbsup

Good afernoon Annabelle. Peanut is fine. Kimmi's the one that loves pictures. We trimmed Peanut's teeth today. The calcium problem has effected his teeth. When Kimmi was clipping one tooth broke of at the base; I'm not sure who was more upset Peanut or Kimmi. Going by Peanut's behavior it was painful.

[nchls_school]

Oh good grief! Too cute!!!

This is one of my favorite pictures of Peanut. 249086

[SammysMom]

I can see why! She is just precious!!!:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

One of his teeth broke at the base? Did it split going vertically or horizontally?

[farrelli]

Yes, the tooth breakage could be very serious. Please describe it in detail. This is one of the reasons you have to be so very careful while trimming and use the best possible instruments. A bad break (or accidental extraction) can cause something called an odomtoma which can eventually cause death. Some have had it fixed through a pretty nasty surgery, but not only would you have to somehow find someone to do this, on such a small sq, I don't even know if it would be possible.

[nchls_school]

One of his teeth broke at the base? Did it split going vertically or horizontally?

Lower tooth and it broke vertically; not a good thing?

[Nancy in New York]

Lower tooth and it broke vertically; not a good thing?


It would have been "better" horizontally.
It may have gone to the root vertically.
Let me alert some other members that may know more
about these issues. I have always read that the one thing
we want to avoid is a tooth splitting vertically.

[nchls_school]

Lower tooth and it broke vertically; not a good thing?

There really isn't much detail. I hold Peanut and Kimmi clips the teeth as quickly and carefully as she can. The clipper is small enough for his tiny tooth and sharp. When she clipped, the tooth broke vertically instead of being cut horizontally. What next?

[Nancy in New York]

There really isn't much detail. I hold Peanut and Kimmi clips the teeth as quickly and carefully as she can. The clipper is small enough for his tiny tooth and sharp. When she clipped, the tooth broke vertically instead of being cut horizontally. What next?

Hold on, I'm looking for help.

[CritterMom]

Is there anything left of the tooth? Can you tell if the horizontal break goes down into the gums?

You need really good quality, expensive side cut clippers - they are frequently used in the jewelry trade. Cheaper clippers are made of softer metal and when healthy, squirrel teeth are HARD and after a few trims, cheaper clippers will stop working properly and this happens.

[kimnnee]

Maybe i better clarify this I think I told Dan wrong. When I cut his tooth the lower which has 2 teeth that looks like one and it's the Luke buck teeth but opposite bottoms are in from n uppers are farther back in his mouth. I have to trim those to or they will go into his tongue. The lowers actually every 2 weeks have to be clipped or it goes (grows) into his cleft in his upper lip. So when I trimmed it the 2 front bottoms one broke farther down than I clipped so only 1 tooth is visible going up from the bottom gum. God I felt so bad I cried. He bled a lil to. I had a nightmare that night. My poor baby.

[Milo's Mom]

First, you, Peanut, & Kimmi need to take some Rescue Remedy. Peanut will pick up on you being upset and then you get more upset cause Peanut is upset, and etc, etc, etc.

Chances are you are more upset than Peanut at this point. When a clipping goes bad it hits you in the gut like a freaking truck. It is scary and it does really need to be avoided but sometimes it happens.

When you say the tooth split instead of cutting, do you mean the entire tooth split in half top to bottom and nothing came off to shorten the tooth? Is there a way you could post a picture?

How much of the tooth is above the gum line? Did any part of the tooth come out of her mouth or are both pieces still intact?

Sometimes when a tooth splits part of it becomes a loose chard and it wiggles and cause pain. Take a look to see if this is the case (unless part of it came out)

[Milo's Mom]

Maybe i better clarify this I think I told Dan wrong. When I cut his tooth the lower which has 2 teeth that looks like one and it's the Luke buck teeth but opposite bottoms are in from n uppers are farther back in his mouth. I have to trim those to or they will go into his tongue. The lowers actually every 2 weeks have to be clipped or it goes (grows) into his cleft in his upper lip. So when I trimmed it the 2 front bottoms one broke farther down than I clipped so only 1 tooth is visible going up from the bottom gum. God I felt so bad I cried. He bled a lil to. I had a nightmare that night. My poor baby.

Okay, this sounds like you got them clipped, but one broke off at the gum line and the other one is the proper length. Is this a correct statement?

[CritterMom]

So if I understand you correctly, the tooth broke but not way down in the jaw - it is just shorter than you would like it because you had to even them up, right?

And you cut too far and made it bleed, correct? As awful as it feels to have done this, it is much better than if it split all the way down into the jaw!

It surely hurts though so do make sure you give him the ibuprophen. I so hoped he would be able to start eating the blocks when you get them today but he may not want to, though after he gets a few doses of ibuprophen you may be able to tempt him with avocado.

If you have to trim that frequently you REALLY need good clippers. Somewhere we have info about them and I am hunting for it and will get it on the board when I find it.

[kimnnee]

First, you, Peanut, & Kimmi need to take some Rescue Remedy. Peanut will pick up on you being upset and then you get more upset cause Peanut is upset, and etc, etc, etc.

Chances are you are more upset than Peanut at this point. When a clipping goes bad it hits you in the gut like a freaking truck. It is scary and it does really need to be avoided but sometimes it happens.

When you say the tooth split instead of cutting, do you mean the entire tooth split in half top to bottom and nothing came off to shorten the tooth? Is there a way you could post a picture?

How much of the tooth is above the gum line? Did any part of the tooth come out of her mouth or are both pieces still intact?

Sometimes when a tooth splits part of it becomes a loose chard and it wiggles and cause pain. Take a look to see if this is the case (unless part of it came out)

There is one tooth trimmed properly n the one next to it lower jaw is just above the gum so it will grow no damage that I know of to his roots. Its just way shorter than the one next to it. At least he couldn't gnaw before this so there doesn't need to be changes to his diet at least. I know about the anxiety rubbing off onto him after that fiasco but I tried to calm down gave lots of kisses. Pretty soon he won't want to picked up by me cause he'll think what now will she do to me.

[kimnnee]

Okay, this sounds like you got them clipped, but one broke off at the gum line and the other one is the proper length. Is this a correct statement?

Yes exactly right do they all have the bottoms in front and the top teeth behind?

[TubeDriver]

Damage that extends to the root can be very bad. If the split did not go to the root then it is probably alright but as others said here, you should invest in a top quality trimmer. Here is a German made trimmer with C70 hardened tool steel:

http://www.all-spec.com/products/Wire.Cable_Tools_and_Acc|Wire_Strippers_and_Cutter s|TOL-4D/56815.html

Can you post a pic?


There is one tooth trimmed properly n the one next to it lower jaw is just above the gum so it will grow no damage that I know of to his roots. Its just way shorter than the one next to it. At least he couldn't gnaw before this so there doesn't need to be changes to his diet at least. I know about the anxiety rubbing off onto him after that fiasco but I tried to calm down gave lots of kisses. Pretty soon he won't want to picked up by me cause he'll think what now will she do to me.

[Milo's Mom]

One of the bottom lowers being shorter than the other is NOT that bad. Just watch to make sure it keeps growing; it most likely will. You may need to clip the other lower tooth a time or two before the short one catches up, and that's fine.

I am not very familiar with Peanut so I'm not sure if any of the teeth actually meet or not. If they do, you'll have to watch the top tooth on the side of the extra short lower tooth to make sure it doesn't get too long.

When a squirrels mouth is closed the bottom teeth "normally" go up behind the top teeth almost like when you casually close your mouth. Not sure if that answered your question...not sure if I am understanding your question.

[Milo's Mom]

Damage that extends to the root can be very bad. If the split did not go to the root then it is probably alright but as others said here, you should invest in a top quality trimmer. Here is a German made trimmer with C70 hardened tool steel:

http://www.all-spec.com/products/Wire.Cable_Tools_and_Acc|Wire_Strippers_and_Cutter s|TOL-4D/56815.html

Can you post a pic?


It did NOT split! It just snapped off lower to the gum line than the other tooth.

[Milo's Mom]

Pretty soon he won't want to picked up by me cause he'll think what now will she do to me.

Lots of (healthy) treats and kisses and belly rubs will help to prevent this. :grin3

[Milo's Mom]

You guys okay for now? Need me to hang around a little longer?

[TubeDriver]

That is good to hear!


It did NOT split! It just snapped off lower to the gum line than the other tooth.

[nchls_school]

So if I understand you correctly, the tooth broke but not way down in the jaw - it is just shorter than you would like it because you had to even them up, right?

And you cut too far and made it bleed, correct? As awful as it feels to have done this, it is much better than if it split all the way down into the jaw!

It surely hurts though so do make sure you give him the ibuprophen. I so hoped he would be able to start eating the blocks when you get them today but he may not want to, though after he gets a few doses of ibuprophen you may be able to tempt him with avocado.

If you have to trim that frequently you REALLY need good clippers. Somewhere we have info about them and I am hunting for it and will get it on the board when I find it.

Kimmi bought some more calcium but this time it's calcium with D; Ca 600mg and
D3 800IU. She asks what the dosage should be? Do we keep it at 250mg as before with the D3?

[nchls_school]

You guys okay for now? Need me to hang around a little longer?
Thank you. We looked at his teeth and I don't believe they're the problem; He is acting angry and certainly not himself. We go through this every time his teeth need trimming; just not one breaking off. Each time Peanut gets angry and standoffish; just more so this time. With his tiny mouth and being uncooperative, teeth trimming day is (not always) difficult and the little guy is standoffish for a few days. I'm hoping that the behavior we see is just a more pronounce case of the usual reaction to having teeth trimmed.

[farrelli]

Do not use the pills with D3. I can't remember if we've gotten her a source of D yet. If not, you could do HALF of one pill in order to get D into her. BUT NO MORE THAN THAT. After which, use calcium only. D is fat soluble so it stays on board. And too much is toxic. It's used in high amounts to kill rodents by exterminators.

As to being angry, you might look into buying some Rescue Remedy, as per MM's comment. She also has to clip teeth.

[CritterMom]

Kimmi bought some more calcium but this time it's calcium with D; Ca 600mg and
D3 800IU. She asks what the dosage should be? Do we keep it at 250mg as before with the D3?

You have a big baggie full of calcium without D in your package which will be there today.

[nchls_school]

Do not use the pills with D3. I can't remember if we've gotten her a source of D yet. If not, you could do HALF of one pill in order to get D into her. BUT NO MORE THAN THAT. After which, use calcium only. D is fat soluble so it stays on board. And too much is toxic. It's used in high amounts to kill rodents by exterminators.

As to being angry, you might look into buying some Rescue Remedy, as per MM's comment. She also has to clip teeth.

Thank you. The D3 will be removed or reduced. There is no source of D.

[farrelli]

Again, no more than half a pill, and only once! This will give him a D boost so as to better use the calcium but not kill him. If you keep giving him those pills, the D builds up in his system (fat soluble) and can cause death. Proper levels of D will be provided with a proper rodent block.

[nchls_school]

OK. We are just paranoid!

If you click on my name above where it says CritterMom nest to the squirrel, you can send me a private message that won't show on the board. If you send me your name and mailing address, on Thursday I will mail you out some plain, unflavored calcium powder - it is nice because it has NO flavor so you can hide it in anything, and the dosage will be just about 1/4 teaspoon for the entire day, so it is pretty easy to get it into him. I will also send you some of the blocks that were mentioned earlier in the thread. They are made to help treat and prevent MBD and are made by one of our members here. As far as I am concerned they should be part of the MBD treatment and he should have them for the rest of his life. The people who make it are on vacation until January but I bought a bunch to make sure I had plenty and can part with a few for you. I know you mentioned that he cannot eat hard things because of his teeth - these are NOTHING like the blocks you have seen in pet stores - they are not hard. They remind me of cubes of slightly stale pumpernickel bread - sort of tough but not hard and crunchy.

The blocks and calcium came today. Thank you and if ever...

[nchls_school]

Again, no more than half a pill, and only once! This will give him a D boost so as to better use the calcium but not kill him. If you keep giving him those pills, the D builds up in his system (fat soluble) and can cause death. Proper levels of D will be provided with a proper rodent block.


With D was given yesterday and this morning. None was consumed this morning/today. Before that straight calcium was used to make the mixture.

[CritterMom]

The blocks and calcium came today. Thank you and if ever...

Hopefully you read my other post - where I backed the amount of calcium down - with instructions for this. If his teeth hurt too much to tackle the blocks today, you will be giving him between 1/8 and 1/4 teaspoon per day. If he will eat avocado, it is a great way to sneak the calcium into him. Cut two thin little slices of the avocado and scrape one side up a little with a knife. Put the calcium on the scraped up mushy side and top with the other slice and press the two together. Calcium sandwich!

[TubeDriver]

Great idea! :thumbsup No avocado pits or skin, that stuff is toxic to squirrels.


Hopefully you read my other post - where I backed the amount of calcium down - with instructions for this. If his teeth hurt too much to tackle the blocks today, you will be giving him between 1/8 and 1/4 teaspoon per day. If he will eat avocado, it is a great way to sneak the calcium into him. Cut two thin little slices of the avocado and scrape one side up a little with a knife. Put the calcium on the scraped up mushy side and top with the other slice and press the two together. Calcium sandwich!

[Annabelle's papa]

:thumbsup

[farrelli]

So how much of the D laced tablet did she get in total?

[nchls_school]

So how much of the D laced tablet did she get in total?

250mg; possibly a bit less.

[farrelli]

So a little bit less than half a pill?

[nchls_school]

So a little bit less than half a pill?

Yes.

[farrelli]

That should be totally fine and help her out.

[nchls_school]

That should be totally fine and help her out.

It seems once Peanut eats a mixture he doesn't eat as much or at all after the first time. We keep trying different mixtures with calcium, but we're running out of ideas. We're tried different nuts, and the avocado. We'll try it on some green food today. I'm beginning to think that we should use the syringe and put it with the ibuprophen and force feed. The squirrel does not seem to do well with all this change in diet and his surroundings. We have not had much luck with the squirrel block either. Any ideas would be welcome.

[farrelli]

Has anyone mentioned the avocado sandwich? Take a slice, put calcium on once side, and lay another slice over it. Maybe try with bananas or baby food? When trying to get a sq to eat something, it's always an endless trial and error. You've just got to try everything. Same deal with blocks. Some people put cherry juice on them, some blueberry juice, some a bit of olive oil, some serve them warm, some cold, some sliced, some moistened, etc. Boo balls are also great, and there's a number of recipes on here. Sometimes you have to try a few. Point being, lots of caretakers have been through this and they just had to keep trying. Part of being a sq parent is being a short order cook with a demanding client whose tastes change at random. There have been cases where people have tried just about everything, and then under the advice of Henry's, have bought the bag of vitamins that the blocks are made with and mixed them with other things that they would eat, and then supplemented the protein intake in other ways.

[nchls_school]

Has anyone mentioned the avocado sandwich? Take a slice, put calcium on once side, and lay another slice over it. Maybe try with bananas or baby food? When trying to get a sq to eat something, it's always an endless trial and error. You've just got to try everything. Same deal with blocks. Some people put cherry juice on them, some blueberry juice, some a bit of olive oil, some serve them warm, some cold, some sliced, some moistened, etc. Boo balls are also great, and there's a number of recipes on here. Sometimes you have to try a few. Point being, lots of caretakers have been through this and they just had to keep trying. Part of being a sq parent is being a short order cook with a demanding client whose tastes change at random. There have been cases where people have tried just about everything, and then under the advice of Henry's, have bought the bag of vitamins that the blocks are made with and mixed them with other things that they would eat, and then supplemented the protein intake in other ways.

The avocado idea we tried and the squirrel ate it with gusto. The next time he refused it and has continued to do so. We will keep trying with the other ideas that you have suggested. In the meantime, we are going to force feed the calcium a bit at a time. We just finished the first of it today and it went well. Hopefully we will come across another mixture that will be consumed. Thank you.

[CritterMom]

Do make sure that if he refuses it with the avocado, or instance, that you later offer him avocado with NO calcium on it - that way he won't make a bad association with the food.

His teeth may hurt a bit and that may have something to do with his not wanting the blocks.

Since they may be sore, I would say that he can have ibuprophen through the day today, but I would taper it off and not give it to him unless it is absolutely needed after tomorrow. It helps with the pain but just like for us, too much of it s not a good idea - pain relievers do have eventual side effects. It is best to use as needed - you don't want them suffering to the point they stop eating for sure, but you also don't want to give it automatically either.

[farrelli]

If you use the INFANT ibuprofen, make sure you've been given dosing instruction.

[farrelli]

Btw, how is the mobility these days?

[nchls_school]

Btw, how is the mobility these days?

He's taken a step backwards. I don't think he's been eating the calcium mixture as we thought. When cleaning his cage I can easily see that the droppings are normal colored. We will hand feed the calcium with whatever else he needs; then we'll know that it has gotten into his system for sure. Peanut is a "this spring" baby-we got him in September and the only thing he would eat at that time were peanuts. Kimmi has gotten him to eat many things and at least now he will nibble new foods to see if he likes them. Certainly a step in the right direction even if the foods we got him to eat do not provide the right nutrition. I've been giving thought to what you wrote about giving vitamins he needs while we work with improving his diet. I think that's the way to go until he starts eating the squirrel block. I believe you said where to order them in a previous post; I'll look to make sure. Thank you.

[nchls_school]

He's taken a step backwards. I don't think he's been eating the calcium mixture as we thought. When cleaning his cage I can easily see that the droppings are normal colored. We will hand feed the calcium with whatever else he needs; then we'll know that it has gotten into his system for sure. Peanut is a "this spring" baby-we got him in September and the only thing he would eat at that time were peanuts. Kimmi has gotten him to eat many things and at least now he will nibble new foods to see if he likes them. Certainly a step in the right direction even if the foods we got him to eat do not provide the right nutrition. I've been giving thought to what you wrote about giving vitamins he needs while we work with improving his diet. I think that's the way to go until he starts eating the squirrel block. I believe you said where to order them in a previous post; I'll look to make sure. Thank you.

Vitamins from Henry"s added to his food and protein added-correct?

[farrelli]

You can get both the vitamins and the protein here:

http://www.henryspets.com/categories/Supplements/

That's what they make their blocks with. HOWEVER, I would call them (the owner is a member here) to get their dosages per day. You don;t want to wing it. Also, there are a variety of block and boo ball recipes on this site from people who had to try and try to find the right recipe for their particular sq.

Btw, you can't tell from the poop if she's been taking the calcium. It shouldn't be white or gray, that's a sign of too much calcium.

[TubeDriver]

It is critical to keep giving him the Calcium. Gradually improving his diet over the next weeks will also play a critical role but the Calcium now is what halts the MBD process.

Peanut weighs 112g? If that weight is correct, you can give him 0.030cc of infant motrin (50mg/1.25ml strength formula) every 4-5 hours but he should be adequately hydrated before giving him meds. Can you dose 0.030cc (ml) correctly? You will need a 1ml (or a 1/2ml) syringe to get this dosing level correct.

[nchls_school]

It is critical to keep giving him the Calcium. Gradually improving his diet over the next weeks will also play a critical role but the Calcium now is what halts the MBD process.

Peanut weighs 112g? If that weight is correct, you can give him 0.030cc of infant motrin (50mg/1.25ml strength formula) every 4-5 hours but he should be adequately hydrated before giving him meds. Can you dose 0.030cc (ml) correctly? You will need a 1ml (or a 1/2ml) syringe to get this dosing level correct.

The weight was 112g at the time we posted that number. Now-I don't need a scale to know he has lost weight. He was out of his box for the first time today. He ate well but looks to be weaker. His intake of water has always been OK (each time out of the nest box he drinks-this I've been watching for). For now we are putting Peanut back on the foods he had before getting sick. We will continue giving the calcium and ibuprophen as directed. And we will keep trying to find ways to improve his diet; but more slowly. He needs to gain the weight back. We have the appropriate size syringes and know the dosage. I'm going to offer the avocado without calcium added. Hopefully he will eat it as he did the fist time. As always thank you.

[nchls_school]

You can get both the vitamins and the protein here:

http://www.henryspets.com/categories/Supplements/

That's what they make their blocks with. HOWEVER, I would call them (the owner is a member here) to get their dosages per day. You don;t want to wing it. Also, there are a variety of block and boo ball recipes on this site from people who had to try and try to find the right recipe for their particular sq.

Btw, you can't tell from the poop if she's been taking the calcium. It shouldn't be white or gray, that's a sign of too much calcium.

We will try the boo balls using different recipes. I will contact Henry's and get the appropriate dosage for the vitamins when we make an order. There seems to be disagreement about the calcium and dropping color. I do know that when we used the syringe before, the droppings were not the normal black/dark brown but grayish. The first mixture with avocado, that was eaten quickly, had a reduced dosage and the droppings still showed the grayish.

I should have continued monitoring closely but failed to do so when Peanut's health improved. Another mistake that won't be repeated.

[SammysMom]

What is the food that he is now eating and how much of it?

[TubeDriver]

There is a large amount of leeway with dosing motrin. If you want to be 100% safe, dose at the 0.025cc level (100g body weigh level). As long has he is hydrated, that dosage level should be fine.




The weight was 112g at the time we posted that number. Now-I don't need a scale to know he has lost weight. He was out of his box for the first time today. He ate well but looks to be weaker. His intake of water has always been OK (each time out of the nest box he drinks-this I've been watching for). For now we are putting Peanut back on the foods he had before getting sick. We will continue giving the calcium and ibuprophen as directed. And we will keep trying to find ways to improve his diet; but more slowly. He needs to gain the weight back. We have the appropriate size syringes and know the dosage. I'm going to offer the avocado without calcium added. Hopefully he will eat it as he did the fist time. As always thank you.

[nchls_school]

What is the food that he is now eating and how much of it?

How much isn't easy to be exact. I watched him for about 30 minutes eating nonstop;
pecans, almonds, cabbage, broccoli, pine nuts; no one item was abundant (a couple of each type of nuts) in an effort to make him eat a selection. All the nuts were eaten and some of the greens. I know this diet is not right for squirrels. I am alarmed at how weak he appeared. At this point I am happy that he ate on his own. The calcuim and infant ibuprophen were given by syringe.

[nchls_school]

[QUOTE=nchls_school;1067583]How much isn't easy to be exact. I watched him for about 30 minutes eating nonstop;
pecans, almonds, cabbage, broccoli, pine nuts; no one item was abundant (a couple of each type of nuts) in an effort to make him eat a selection. All the nuts were eaten and some of the greens. I know this diet is not right for squirrels. I am alarmed at how weak he appeared. At this point I am happy that he ate on his own. The calcuim and infant ibuprophen were given by syringe.[/QUOTE

I guess I do not understand why Peanut refuses to eat these foods when they are ground and mixed with flavorless calcium and we have tried many of them. Texture?

[SammysMom]

You need to stop the nuts especially the pine nuts. I know that it is hard to watch them, but he will never eat the good stuff if he can hold out for what is bad for him. Every pine nut you give him depletes his ability to absorb what little calcium you are getting into him. I am NOT trying to sound mean, but it is the fact and I know you love him too much to harm him.

[CritterMom]

You need to stop the nuts especially the pine nuts. I know that it is hard to watch them, but he will never eat the good stuff if he can hold out for what is bad for him. Every pine nut you give him depletes his ability to absorb what little calcium you are getting into him. I am NOT trying to sound mena, but it is the fact and I know you love him too much to harm him.

To keep them healthy, they need to consume TWO parts calcium for every ONE part phosphorus.

Pine nuts have ONE part calcium to THREE HUNDRED SIXTY parts phosphorus. You would need to pour the calcium into him with a funnel to compensate for that. He should literally NEVER have another pine nut.

The two most healthy nuts he can have are almonds and hazelnuts, which are both about 1 part calcium to 1.7 parts phosphorus. Not 2 to 1 but a LOT better than 1 to 360!

[nchls_school]

[QUOTE=nchls_school;1067583]How much isn't easy to be exact. I watched him for about 30 minutes eating nonstop;
pecans, almonds, cabbage, broccoli, pine nuts; no one item was abundant (a couple of each type of nuts) in an effort to make him eat a selection. All the nuts were eaten and some of the greens. I know this diet is not right for squirrels. I am alarmed at how weak he appeared. At this point I am happy that he ate on his own. The calcuim and infant ibuprophen were given by syringe.[/QUOTE

I guess I do not understand why Peanut refuses to eat these foods when they are ground and mixed with flavorless calcium and we have tried many of them. Texture?
249342249343249344249345249346

Peanut is doing well and showing a lot of improvement; each day is better. Thanks to everyone for your help and encouragement.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh stop it right now.............how could you post these pictures without a
CAUTION: CUTENESS OVERLOAD WARNING!

OMG he is just too adorable for words, and I swear he's smiling in a couple of
those pictures.
I'm thrilled that he's doing so much better, he looks just so squishable!:Love_Icon 249347

[nchls_school]

Oh stop it right now.............how could you post these pictures without a
CAUTION: CUTENESS OVERLOAD WARNING!

OMG he is just too adorable for words, and I swear he's smiling in a couple of
those pictures.
I'm thrilled that he's doing so much better, he looks just so squishable!:Love_Icon 249347

Yes he is squishable. May be HIS name should have been Charmin!!-HA

I will never understand why he went through so many homes before he came to us.

[SammysMom]

Oh yeah...he is definitely smiling! He is awfully cute! So glad to hear that he is feeling better...:Love_Icon

[TubeDriver]

Klunkage!:serene

Great to hear he is improving, keep up with the treatment! It will be several months with a good diet till his bones regain some of the normal strength!

[nchls_school]

Someone asked that I show the rest of the zoo; well, her's some of them.

249459249460249461249462249463

[CritterMom]

Beautiful sun conure! How loud is he?

OMG! You have those chickens with furry boots! They are so cool!

[SammysMom]

Gotta love chickens wearing hats and slippers...:rofl4

[nchls_school]

Beautiful sun conure! How loud is he?

OMG! You have those chickens with furry boots! They are so cool!

Dufus is actually a VERY LOUD SunDay Conure; Mom is a sun conure and dad in a jenday conure. I have the parents too.

The chickens are silky bantams. These two are Snowflake and Mocha. Mocha has seizures (a common problem with birds that have a, crest and don't normally have them) but she lays eggs, and continually goes broody trying to hatch eggs that will never hatch (no rooster). Maybe in the spring. The silkies do have "furry boots" and feathers that look and feel like hair (not able to fly). They are tame as you can see in the picture of them sitting in my lap.

I'm still at school, but Kimmi e-mailed to let me know that Peanut is having a good day. We were a bit worried, again, since yesterday he was quite subdued and spent most of the day in his box sleeping. Today, Kimmi tells me, Peanut is very active and enjoying life.

Crittermom-the vitamins are in the mail from Henry's for Peanut; as well as a few other things Kimmi thought would be good to have.

[nchls_school]

Gotta love chickens wearing hats and slippers...:rofl4

They constantly stick those "hat" in their water dish; I have no idea why, but it give them a greased back punk look.

[TubeDriver]

The whole crew is very cute!:serene


In some of those pics of Peanut, his top teeth look a little long? Can you post a pic of his front teeth when you get a chance? Just want to make sure he does not have any tooth issues, probably not but better double check.

[SammysMom]

:goodpost
The whole crew is very cute!:serene


In some of those pics of Peanut, his top teeth look a little long? Can you post a pic of his front teeth when you get a chance? Just want to make sure he does not have any tooth issues, probably not but better double check.

[CritterMom]

Peanut has known tooth issues, and gets them clipped regularly - if you look further back in the thread, there was a little issue at the last trim.

[nchls_school]

The whole crew is very cute!:serene


In some of those pics of Peanut, his top teeth look a little long? Can you post a pic of his front teeth when you get a chance? Just want to make sure he does not have any tooth issues, probably not but better double check.

Peanut's jaw and teeth are not as they should be. We clip his teeth every two weeks because the top teeth do not line up with the bottoms and do not wear down naturally. If left unchecked the bottom teeth grow out and up and would grow into his nostrils. The top teeth grow inward towards the back of the throat. Peanut would not survive a month on his own. Two weeks without being clipped is about as long as they can go and still allow the squirrel to eat.

[TubeDriver]

Good, I was afraid I was going to uncover another, new issue for Peanut. I forgot about the earlier issues with the trimming and the split tooth.


Peanut has known tooth issues, and gets them clipped regularly - if you look further back in the thread, there was a little issue at the last trim.

[TubeDriver]

Sorry, I forgot about the earlier issues you mentioned with Peanut's teeth. I just looked at the pics, did not like what I was seeing, glanced back quickly at the thread and thought MBD so I figured I should bring it up. Sometimes it is hard to keep all the threads straight.:hidechair



Peanut's jaw and teeth are not as they should be. We clip his teeth every two weeks because the top teeth do not line up with the bottoms and do not wear down naturally. If left unchecked the bottom teeth grow out and up and would grow into his nostrils. The top teeth grow inward towards the back of the throat. Peanut would not survive a month on his own. Two weeks without being clipped is about as long as they can go and still allow the squirrel to eat.

[SammysMom]

I forgot too. So Sorry!!! I have one here right now with the same issue. :shakehead

[nchls_school]

Good, I was afraid I was going to uncover another, new issue for Peanut. I forgot about the earlier issues with the trimming and the split tooth.

There split tooth has taken care of itself and we'll be certain to sharpen the clippers for next time. I'm a bit worried though. With the calcium problem that tooth broke/split easily and I'm concerned it may happen again. Would trimming a little at a time be better? The teeth are due to be clipped this Saturday. We try to do this job on the same week day every two weeks. It's easier to keep track of that way, but it's also easy to see when Peanut is starting to have troubles eating.

[CritterMom]

I would absolutely do a little at a time.

[TubeDriver]

I agree 100% with CM. If you just take off a small amount, it means you might have to clip next time a little earlier. If you accidentally take off too much or split the tooth and the root is damaged it can lead to potentially VERY serious issues that could require surgical removal of the entire tooth.

Err on the side of removing too little. They are pretty small, if you can file them down that is best but that may be impossible with an alarmed, scared and anxious squirrel.

If you are not sure about the quality of the trimmer you are using, invest in a high quality brand like Wiha. I posted a link to a clipper earlier in this thread. The cheaper trimmers tend to work fine for a few trims and then they get dull and can cause splitting. Since this is a regular occurrance, a good quality trimmer is worth the investment.



I would absolutely do a little at a time.

[nchls_school]

I agree 100% with CM. If you just take off a small amount, it means you might have to clip next time a little earlier. If you accidentally take off too much or split the tooth and the root is damaged it can lead to potentially VERY serious issues that could require surgical removal of the entire tooth.

Err on the side of removing too little. They are pretty small, if you can file them down that is best but that may be impossible with an alarmed, scared and anxious squirrel.

If you are not sure about the quality of the trimmer you are using, invest in a high quality brand like Wiha. I posted a link to a clipper earlier in this thread. The cheaper trimmers tend to work fine for a few trims and then they get dull and can cause splitting. Since this is a regular occurrance, a good quality trimmer is worth the investment.

A small amount at a time it is. Filing them down is not an option; Getting Peanut to be still to clip is challenge enough. I can just imagine how he'd take to filing. I would never have thought that teeth could grow so fast. We'll look into the clippers. Thanks all for the input.

[CritterMom]

You absolutely need top quality clippers. As the calcium treatment continues, those teeth will get harder and it will be more likely that they break weird.

[nchls_school]

I forgot too. So Sorry!!! I have one here right now with the same issue. :shakehead

It seems like Peanut's teeth are growing faster; probably my own imagination. Your post says you are dealing "with the same issue". How often do you have to clip the teeth and what kind of squirrel is it? I never realized that rodent teeth grew so fast.

[pnut2014]

Aww so cute.love from his cousion n sc pnut.

[MegNDan14]

I am new to this forum. Earlier in the school year one of my students brought me a young red squirrel that had been passed on through several people. It fell out of the nest as a baby onto a roof. The people that found it fed the baby until it weaned. Once weaned it was passed on to a new owner. The squirrel (Peanut) has teeth that do not match up so they grow without being worn down. Peanut was passed on several times until my student brought the baby to me thinking I would know what to do about the teeth. I trim the teeth every two weeks. When I first got the squirrel the only food it ate were peanuts (hence the name). Now, my wife has the squirrel eating a variety of foods; a wide array of nuts, bread products, and greens. At first Peanut appeared very active, alert, and playful. For the last few weeks he has been walking with more and more difficulty and he appears to be loosing the use of his back legs. He is still alert and playful, but as time goes by Peanut has more difficulties in getting around. I am hoping that someone may have an idea of what might be wrong. He has not fallen that we know of and there has been no other accident other than falling on the roof as a baby. Both my wife and I have become very fond of the squirrel and it's very upsetting to my wife to watch her pet slowly worsen over time. Any Ideas of what we might try or do would be appreciated. nchls_school


My baby squirrel had the same problem about 6 months of having him we thought he was bit by a spider of some sort but he grew out of it after a week or two an hes is now a year an 2 months old an healthier than ever!! never found out what it was i just kept him close and babied him

[Chickenlegs]

I'd venture to say he's in the early stages of metabolic bone disease. His diet isn't providing enough calcium so his body is taking what he needs from his bones. Check the nutrition section and start MBD protocols immediately. It's life threatening but with time, can be reversed. The MBD experts will answer all your questions but treatment is right here on TSB. it's late but if you get this, start MBD treatment NOW, it's that important!

[SammysMom]

Start by crushing 1/2 of a tums in water and givingbit a bit at a time until it is all gone. It is calcium so will get you started. Someone will paste the whole proticol, but uf they dont i will try tomorrow. I am on a device that isnt good for cut and paste.

[Nancy in New York]

My baby squirrel had the same problem about 6 months of having him we thought he was bit by a spider of some sort but he grew out of it after a week or two an hes is now a year an 2 months old an healthier than ever!! never found out what it was i just kept him close and babied him

Just for any members helping/reading.
nchls_school squirrel fine.

This is an older thread from January
but MegNDan were relaying their experience.

So there are no squirrels any longer in trouble in this thread. :thumbsup