MBD Treatment

[LamboSquirrel]

Hello , I am worry about my squirrel , she started always sleeping since last 4days . I think she might getting MBD. So I think I should use calcium to treat this disease. But I worry that I used wrong supplement for this squirrel.
can you check this supplement for me?
Content
Calcium………………...600.00mg
(as calcium carbonate)
Magnesium………………45.00mg
(as magnesium oxide)
Manganese………………..0.50mg
(as manganese sulphate)
Copper…………….…..…..0.50mg
(as copper sulphate)
Zinc……………………….12.50mg

(as zinc oxide)
Vitamin D3………………………200iu

Indication
as a dietary supplement

Please let me know asap :grin2

sorry for broken English .

[Spanky]

I Cannot speak to the non-calcium elements you have listed in the supplement, but we often use a calcium carbonate antacid (In USA goes by the name "Tums"). The squirrels will often eat the berry flavored ones as many of them enjoy the taste. So you may do well to check the antacid area versus supplement area of the store?

[Spanky]

Maybe this will help... It appears to me the supplement you are asking about has way too much of the other elements (copper, zinc, magnesium, etc.) to be able to get enough calcium without too much of the other elements.

The picture is of a label from some vitamins made especially for squirrels. I hope this helps... or you have luck in locating some antacids like the "Tums" we use here in the states.

Edit: Just noticed the high level of Vitamin D3 in that supplement. Know that too much Vitamin D can be lethal, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know if that pertains to D3 specifically. Hopefully more knowledgeable folks will jump in soon!

247563

[RobinTN]

Here are some links that might help.

This tells how to use Tums as an emergency treatment, and also what to do in the long term future. MBD requires a lengthy treatment and permanent dietary changes.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?34495-Emergency-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Bone-Disease-(MBD)

All species of squirrels in captivity need to be fed a high quality rodent block. The very best is Henry's Healthy Bites. They sell the Vita-Mins on their website that you can use to make your own homemade healthy bites. Here is the Henry's website.
http://www.henryspets.com/vita-mins/

And I'm looking for the exact page with the block recipe. I'll post that when I find it.:grouphug

[RobinTN]

OK, so for the recipe, when you go to the Henry's Healthy Pets page, you can select "CONTACT US" and explain your situation.
Leigh is very helpful and she cares greatly for squirrels.

Keep us updated if you can.:grouphug

[Spanky]

I believe the poster is from Malaysia (MY)? I tried to Google if Tums is available there and the only thing I found was some places selling Tums where the shipment would originate in Malaysia, so hopefully Tums is available and they can get the treatment started right away.

(Thanks for posting the links on MBD treatment and Healthy Diet Robin. I had to run get my grandson and was trying to get info about Tums out there quickly after I saw the post).

[LamboSquirrel]

I believe the poster is from Malaysia (MY)? I tried to Google if Tums is available there and the only thing I found was some places selling Tums where the shipment would originate in Malaysia, so hopefully Tums is available and they can get the treatment started right away.

(Thanks for posting the links on MBD treatment and Healthy Diet Robin. I had to run get my grandson and was trying to get info about Tums out there quickly after I saw the post).

yes I am from malaysia , can I use this tums product
http://www.biovea.com/my/mobile/results.aspx?KW=tums

[LamboSquirrel]

OK, so for the recipe, when you go to the Henry's Healthy Pets page, you can select "CONTACT US" and explain your situation.
Leigh is very helpful and she cares greatly for squirrels.

Keep us updated if you can.:grouphug

Ok I will contact her :):grin2

[RobinTN]

Yes, you can use either of those Tums. Extra strength has 750mg calcium carbonate, and the Ultra has 1000mg.

Please tell us more about your squirrel. What species is she? How old is she, and how long have you had her? What kind of foods does she eat as a regular diet? If you are able to get her weight (preferrably in grams) that would be great.

Also, very important, other than her sleeping alot, what other symptoms is she having? If she has been lacking calcium in her diet, this could well be MBD, but without knowing much about her symptoms, it could be something else.

:Welcomeglad you found The Squirrel Board!

[LamboSquirrel]

Yes, you can use either of those Tums. Extra strength has 750mg calcium carbonate, and the Ultra has 1000mg.

Please tell us more about your squirrel. What species is she? How old is she, and how long have you had her? What kind of foods does she eat as a regular diet? If you are able to get her weight (preferrably in grams) that would be great.

Also, very important, other than her sleeping alot, what other symptoms is she having? If she has been lacking calcium in her diet, this could well be MBD, but without knowing much about her symptoms, it could be something else.

:Welcomeglad you found The Squirrel Board!

She is a plantain squirrel , about 12+week . Normally , i feed her , chinese cabbage , yogurt , carrot , apple and broccoli. She start become less active since last tuesday and she didn't like to climb the cage anymore . her weight is 110 grams . i am looking for a rodent block for her diet , but i not able to find that in my country .

[Spanky]

She is a plantain squirrel , about 12+week . Normally , i feed her , chinese cabbage , yogurt , carrot , apple and broccoli. She start become less active since last tuesday and she didn't like to climb the cage anymore . her weight is 110 grams . i am looking for a rodent block for her diet , but i not able to find that in my country .

What type of formula were you feeding her before she started eating solid foods?

I don't know a lot about plantain squirrels, but in general squirrels 12 weeks old are usually weaning; we like to keep feeding them healthy formula for as long as they will take it. How long have you had this little one?

Are there other symptoms besides sleeping more and lack of climbing? How is her appetite?

:Welcome to TSB!!

[LamboSquirrel]

What type of formula were you feeding her before she started eating solid foods?

I don't know a lot about plantain squirrels, but in general squirrels 12 weeks old are usually weaning; we like to keep feeding them healthy formula for as long as they will take it. How long have you had this little one?

Are there other symptoms besides sleeping more and lack of climbing? How is her appetite?

:Welcome to TSB!!

I had this squirrel for about 6+weeks.I feed her kitten milk . she also make some weird sound sometime .

[Spanky]

I had this squirrel for about 6+weeks. I feed her kitten milk . she also make some weird sound sometime .

If you have not already, you really should start her on the MBD protocol as soon as possible to get her calcium levels up. It takes a long time to reverse this, just like it probably took 6 or more weeks to become a problem. It is extremely likely the kitten formula did not have enough calcium for a squirrel to remain healthy.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...-Disease-(MBD)

Here is the puppy formula that is best for squirrels which if fairly common here in the pet stores. It's the powdered version and NOT the liquid. Make sure it has the probiotics which is the newer formulation:
247586

Also Fox Valley makes a formula for opossum and squirrels and other mammals.

In the meantime, here is a goats milk formula that can be used:

Goat's Milk Formula
3 parts goat's milk either the liquid or the powder mixed according to directions on the can.
1 part vanilla full fat yogurt with no artificial sweeteners

[LamboSquirrel]

If you have not already, you really should start her on the MBD protocol as soon as possible to get her calcium levels up. It takes a long time to reverse this, just like it probably took 6 or more weeks to become a problem. It is extremely likely the kitten formula did not have enough calcium for a squirrel to remain healthy.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...-Disease-(MBD)

Here is the puppy formula that is best for squirrels which if fairly common here in the pet stores. It's the powdered version and NOT the liquid. Make sure it has the probiotics which is the newer formulation:
247586

Also Fox Valley makes a formula for opossum and squirrels and other mammals.

In the meantime, here is a goats milk formula that can be used:

Goat's Milk Formula
3 parts goat's milk either the liquid or the powder mixed according to directions on the can.
1 part vanilla full fat yogurt with no artificial sweeteners

I need to use this formula for how many weeks? Do you know what food can replace rodent block?

[Spanky]

I need to use this formula for how many weeks? Do you know what food can replace rodent block?

You should continue to offer the formula for as long as she will take it. The longer the better for squirrels without their squirrel moms... some squirrels that are not released are given formula their whole life in addition to their regular diet.

I know RobinTN has already suggested you contact Leigh at Henry's (http://henryspets.com/) via the contact link (http://www.henryspets.com/contact-us/) to help with healthy rodent blocks. Henry's are the best!

If you can buy rat (rodent) blocks there, the ones by Oxbow or Kaytee (in the blue bag) are better than nothing.

[Spanky]

Here is a link to a discussion about making blocks at home, but I think you will find most everyone will be using the Vitamins from Henry's to make sure there is the right amount of calcium and other minerals and vitamins in the blocks.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?38288-Squirrel-Block-Recipes&highlight=recipe

Here is the link for a healthy squirrel diet. I know the foundation starts with rodent block, but it will still provide an idea of what foods are good and healthy and what is considered snacks (or junk food!):
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

[stepnstone]

I need to use this formula for how many weeks? Do you know what food can replace rodent block?

Formula should be given as long as the squirrel will take it.
One should not wean the squirrel themselves but let the squirrel
decide when it is ready to wean.
Kitten formula is not an adequate formula for use with squirrels.

"Foods" alone are deficient in calcium, protein, vitamin B, D, and other
essential nutrients a squirrel needs on a daily basics and can not take
the place of a good quality rodent block. However, there are supplements
that can be used in addition to a healthy diet.

With suspicion of mbd, considering the age and the diet I would definitely
proceed with the mbd protocol.

[LamboSquirrel]

Now i bought Tums from biovea , it take 3-4 day for delivery .May i know what should i do in this 3-4 days to get the squirrel better ??:sadness

[farrelli]

Do you have any access to any calcium?

I know that your own calcium supplement out of egg shells. Just dry them out in the oven and crush them up. They're mostly calcium carbonate. The only down side is that you won't know exactly how much to give. It's a lot better than nothing though.

[LamboSquirrel]

Do you have any access to any calcium?

I know that your own calcium supplement out of egg shells. Just dry them out in the oven and crush them up. They're mostly calcium carbonate. The only down side is that you won't know exactly how much to give. It's a lot better than nothing though.

after dry and crush the calcium supplement then mix with fruit juice and feed it?

[harimau]

Hi LamboSquirrel,

I also have a plantain squirrel, in Bali. She's never had MBD so I can't help you there, but there are many experts who have already given good advice. Make sure you get the vitamins and protein from Leigh at Henry's - it has been very good for my little girl and plantains eat a lot of bugs so they need protein.

I can help you with a good everyday diet for fruit eating squirrels from local foods. Papaya, pineapple, snake fruit (salak), jeruk and mangosteen are very good. Also large red palm nuts (from the palm merah) if you have them near your house.

I will check back to see how you are doing. I hope your little girl will be OK. If you want to talk plantain squirrels you can pm me.

[harimau]

I forgot a few things:

1. Instead of blocks it was easier for me to buy the vitamins and protein and put them in mashed papaya every day. Leigh suggested this and it works well. The vitamins and protein last a long time.
2. At 12 weeks my plantain weighed 165g, so yours sounds a bit underweight.
3. Mine stopped taking formula at 9 weeks, and another local couple have a little girl who is weaned at 8 weeks. Apparently they are all different though.
4 What noises is she making? Plantains make a lot of noise but the most common baby noise is "fut" and means happiness.

[LamboSquirrel]

I forgot a few things:

1. Instead of blocks it was easier for me to buy the vitamins and protein and put them in mashed papaya every day. Leigh suggested this and it works well. The vitamins and protein last a long time.
2. At 12 weeks my plantain weighed 165g, so yours sounds a bit underweight.
3. Mine stopped taking formula at 9 weeks, and another local couple have a little girl who is weaned at 8 weeks. Apparently they are all different though.
4 What noises is she making? Plantains make a lot of noise but the most common baby noise is "fut" and means happiness.

hello harimau , may I know what kind of vitamin and protein you put into mashed papaya ? Maybe i can try too :) Thanks.

[harimau]

Here is the link to the vitamins:
http://www.henryspets.com/vita-mins/

And the protein:
http://www.henryspets.com/pure-protein-isolate/

She gets one heaped teaspoon of protein and 1/4 teaspoon of vitamins every day with mashed papaya. If you feed her that you shouldn't need the blocks.

[LamboSquirrel]

Here is the link to the vitamins:
http://www.henryspets.com/vita-mins/

And the protein:
http://www.henryspets.com/pure-protein-isolate/

She gets one heaped teaspoon of protein and 1/4 teaspoon of vitamins every day with mashed papaya. If you feed her that you shouldn't need the blocks.

the shipping cost is quite expensive... Do you know other product same like this ?

[harimau]

Unfortunately no. The lady who makes these makes them special for squirrels, so there isn't anywhere else to buy it.

If you contact the lady at Henry's she might be able to find cheaper shipping than the automatic price.

If you can't afford it you can pm your address (to me, or the lady at Henrys if you prefer) and I will order it for you. Your baby will really need it. She also has special mbd treatment.

[LamboSquirrel]

Unfortunately no. The lady who makes these makes them special for squirrels, so there isn't anywhere else to buy it.

If you contact the lady at Henry's she might be able to find cheaper shipping than the automatic price.

If you can't afford it you can pm your address (to me, or the lady at Henrys if you prefer) and I will order it for you. Your baby will really need it. She also has special mbd treatment.

Ok. I sent her email already.

[Spanky]

Trying to "bump" this to see if anyone can confirm if this ratio of ingredients is okay for squirrels (plantain squirrel to be exact)? The poster is in Malaysia and it will be a few days before she can get calcium from Henry's and / or Tums but she does have access to a supplement in the ratios listed below. I was concerned that the amount of some of the other elements was too high (Zinc, D3, etc.). Hoping there is someone that can say with certainty or have other suggested temporary calcium sources until her packages arrive (egg shells have bee recommended as a interim source).



Content
Calcium………………...600.00mg
(as calcium carbonate)
Magnesium………………45.00mg
(as magnesium oxide)
Manganese………………..0.50mg
(as manganese sulphate)
Copper…………….…..…..0.50mg
(as copper sulphate)
Zinc……………………….12.50mg

(as zinc oxide)
Vitamin D3………………………200iu

Indication
as a dietary supplement

Please let me know asap :grin2

sorry for broken English .

[harimau]

I've been talking to LamboSquirrel off board and Lambo (the furry one) took egg shells with papaya tonight. Maybe they'll be OK until the Tums arrive, but a proper supplement would be better. I've ordered the vitamins and protein needed for the long term from Leigh already but they'll take 10 days or more to get there.

Pic of Lambo taking the papaya mix

247594

LS loves Lambo and really wants her to get better, so please keep offering advice

[LamboSquirrel]

I've been talking to LamboSquirrel off board and Lambo (the furry one) took egg shells with papaya tonight. Maybe they'll be OK until the Tums arrive, but a proper supplement would be better. I've ordered the vitamins and protein needed for the long term from Leigh already but they'll take 10 days or more to get there.

Pic of Lambo taking the papaya mix

247594

LS loves Lambo and really wants her to get better, so please keep offering advice

thank you very much harimau :grin2

[Spanky]

I found on-line about that 1 teaspoon of chicken eggshells is 800 - 1,000mg of calcium. There were also some directions on preparing for consumption, so I think their estimate of calcium per teaspoon considers a very fine powder (they use a coffee grinder to pulverize). Some good tips about boiling and baking before grinding so they it can be stored safely over a longer period of time.

Directions: Use up your eggs as you normally would, keeping the shell in the carton to make your supplement When you have your dozen shells, rinse them well in water. Remove any whites that might be stuck but don’t remove membrane as these have extra nutrients. Fill a stock pot with approximately 6 cups of filtered water and bring to a boil. Carefully put your eggshells into water. (This will kill any harmful pathogens) Let cook for 10 minutes. Drain shells. Spread the shells on glass or stainless steel baking sheet and let dry overnight. In the morning, put in a 200 degree (Fahrenheit) oven for about 10 minutes to completely dry out. Once completed, put a few shells into a coffee grinder and run until they are pulverized into a granular form. Continue until all of your shells are powder. Store in a tightly sealed Mason jar in the cupboard away from heat or moisture.

Eggshell Calcium: 1 tsp. contains approximately 800-1,000 mg. of calcium.

[LamboSquirrel]

I found on-line about that 1 teaspoon of chicken eggshells is 800 - 1,000mg of calcium. There were also some directions on preparing for consumption, so I think their estimate of calcium per teaspoon considers a very fine powder (they use a coffee grinder to pulverize). Some good tips about boiling and baking before grinding so they it can be stored safely over a longer period of time.

Directions: Use up your eggs as you normally would, keeping the shell in the carton to make your supplement When you have your dozen shells, rinse them well in water. Remove any whites that might be stuck but don’t remove membrane as these have extra nutrients. Fill a stock pot with approximately 6 cups of filtered water and bring to a boil. Carefully put your eggshells into water. (This will kill any harmful pathogens) Let cook for 10 minutes. Drain shells. Spread the shells on glass or stainless steel baking sheet and let dry overnight. In the morning, put in a 200 degree (Fahrenheit) oven for about 10 minutes to completely dry out. Once completed, put a few shells into a coffee grinder and run until they are pulverized into a granular form. Continue until all of your shells are powder. Store in a tightly sealed Mason jar in the cupboard away from heat or moisture.

Eggshell Calcium: 1 tsp. contains approximately 800-1,000 mg. of calcium.

Ok :) i will do this , thanks for this suggestion :D

[farrelli]

I'm so glad the calcium is being given. LS, here is the emergency MBD treatment if you haven't seen it:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?34495-Emergency-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Bone-Disease-(MBD)

Now that you know the approximate dose of calcium for egg shells, you'll be better about to follow it. So, then for the first week, your sq should get about 1/2 teaspoon a day, perhaps a little more. It would be hard to overdose, so don't be skimpy. However, make sure you understand that the idea is to deliver it throughout the day so as to keep the blood levels of calcium elevated, not just give it all in one big dose.

Harimau, thank you so very much for your attention and generosity in this. Actually, as I was falling asleep last night I realized that I should write you and ask you to weigh in here because you have the same kind of sq. I'm so happy that you're helping here.

[sasha]

Luciano kale is a good source of calcium. My baby munches on it like there's no tomorrow.

[LamboSquirrel]

I'm so glad the calcium is being given. LS, here is the emergency MBD treatment if you haven't seen it:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?34495-Emergency-Treatment-of-Metabolic-Bone-Disease-(MBD)

Now that you know the approximate dose of calcium for egg shells, you'll be better about to follow it. So, then for the first week, your sq should get about 1/2 teaspoon a day, perhaps a little more. It would be hard to overdose, so don't be skimpy. However, make sure you understand that the idea is to deliver it throughout the day so as to keep the blood levels of calcium elevated, not just give it all in one big dose.

Harimau, thank you so very much for your attention and generosity in this. Actually, as I was falling asleep last night I realized that I should write you and ask you to weigh in here because you have the same kind of sq. I'm so happy that you're helping here.

ok :) i will give her calcium everyday and treat her MBD . Thank you :)

[LamboSquirrel]

Luciano kale is a good source of calcium. My baby munches on it like there's no tomorrow.

i can't find kale , so i use chinese cabbage..:dono

[farrelli]

I'm sure that with Harimau's help, you'll have that diet squared away in no time. She's a really attentive mommy who takes great care of her squirrel, and has done a lot of research to get everything as right as it can be. Listen to her. And if you've got any more pictures, I'm sure we'd all love to see them!

[farrelli]

Btw, have you two talked about caging and securing your home so that there are no escapes? Right after getting the diet right, getting the proper living environment (safe, secure, and enriching) is next on the list of importance.

[harimau]

We just started talking about that today, mostly about enriching, though it sounds like Lambo is getting lots of play time. I'm not sure if it's just plantains or all squirrels, but Naiki and Madu (Sasha's squirrel, another Bali plantain) just love anything and everything new. So we talked about visiting parks and forest for squirrel treats too - bark and things to chew, flower buds and shoots.

Hopefully we can talk about Lambo's cage soon :)

[island rehabber]

harimau, I am SO happy that you're helping out here! :thankyou:grouphug

[CritterMom]

Also, guys, not sure if you are aware, but papaya is an EXCELLENT choice to carry the eggshell calcium. Raw papaya is about 5 : 1` calcium : phosphorus. We TRY for 2 : 1 - this is much better when supplementing. :thumbsup

[harimau]

I'm thrilled to be able to help out and pay forward the help I received with Naiki.

Papaya is brilliant. I chose it as a staple for Naiki and she has it every day with her vitamins and protein. It's nutritionally awesome, dissolves everything, keeps well in the fridge and is a plantain squirrel favourite from slightly underripe right through to mushy. You can buy a 40cm long papaya here for 90 cents. You just have to make sure you have room in the fridge ;) even with 3 of us eating one a papaya lasts a week.

Highly recommended!

[harimau]

Just updating for LS - Lambo has been getting her eggshell and is already much better - much more active. Apparently Lambo is even happy to eat ground eggshell by itself (unmixed)

Sasha, LS and I will work together on a Plantain cheat sheet, since both the squirrels and their location call for unique instructions. We have made a beginning here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17DgaQKYTLpeY12FxNwA1X_d7PRyX7Rp6qwjl8kJTe0M/edit?usp=docslist_api

[island rehabber]

Just updating for LS - Lambo has been getting her eggshell and is already much better - much more active. Apparently Lambo is even happy to eat ground eggshell by itself (unmixed)

Sasha, LS and I will work together on a Plantain cheat sheet, since both the squirrels and their location call for unique instructions. We have made a beginning here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17DgaQKYTLpeY12FxNwA1X_d7PRyX7Rp6qwjl8kJTe0M/edit?usp=docslist_api


harimau, this is AWESOME -- good job! And totally surprising to me, at least: most of our diet rules do not apply to plantain squirrels, I see, and we could easily have steered people in the completely wrong direction. (We advise against fruit, for example, for our North American tree squirrels in captivity :shakehead) THank you thank you thank you, for pulling this great information together. :bowdown

When you feel it is complete, let me know and I will add it to Breed Specific/Plantain Squirrels as a sticky so that we can easily find it for the next adopting plantain parent who comes along :grin2.

[harimau]

Thanks IR :) It took a lot of reading to get the info about their wild diet and habits. Most of the material in English was written in the colonial era - I read as far back as Wallace and Raffles.

You'll note from looking at the pics of Lambo that there are big regional differences as well. Lambo comes from a genetic pool that is 1200 miles and quite a few sea journeys from here! She's chocolate coloured and has some morphological differences (eg her little legs seem thicker). The plantains in Singapore are significantly bigger, fluffier and more golden than the ones in Bali, who have less visible stripes and eye patches. If it weren't for Naiki I never would have educated myself about our little neighbours!

Sadly their fruit diet makes them very unpopular with farmers and gardeners :shakehead

[farrelli]

Wow, this is just fantastic! Thanks so much for putting it together and helping this little guy and all who come after!