Help!! Bad Acorn?????

[Amathis84]

I now have two baby squirrels. I just started a new bag of FV and one is doing fine but the other is not wanting to move. She allows you to hold her and doesn't try to escape and move all around. I did give them each an acorn earlier. I went back to one of their cages and seen the acorn was dark. I took it from her but know that she got maybe 1/4-1/2 of the acorn before I noticed! It seems like her stomach is pretty upset. I've started pushing fluids (water) and she has drank 6ccs of water in the first hour. Can I give her sugar water right after she ate? What else can I do? I am about to give her some milk thistle.

Please help!!! I don't want to lose her :(

[farrelli]

Sugar water is fine. MT is great. And if you have any activated charcoal, that would be awesome if she ate the acorn within a couple hours. If you have that, use that first to absorb what can be absorbed and then later start the MT to help with any possible damage.

[stepnstone]

I now have two baby squirrels. I just started a new bag of FV and one is doing fine but the other is not wanting to move. She allows you to hold her and doesn't try to escape and move all around. I did give them each an acorn earlier. I went back to one of their cages and seen the acorn was dark. I took it from her but know that she got maybe 1/4-1/2 of the acorn before I noticed! It seems like her stomach is pretty upset. I've started pushing fluids (water) and she has drank 6ccs of water in the first hour. Can I give her sugar water right after she ate? What else can I do? I am about to give her some milk thistle.
Please help!!! I don't want to lose her :(

How old are these two?
Pushing fluids is always good to try and flush
the system. Personally I'd go with plain water.

What indications are you seeing for comment "It seems like her stomach is pretty upset?"

[Amathis84]

The MT that I have is "Extra" with dandelions, fennel and licorice? I don't know if that is acceptable?

I'm saying her belly hurts because she is just kinda hunched over and not standing up like she normally does. No activated charcoal here... She ate the nut around 6hrs ago.

They are probably 11-14 weeks. Still eating formula.

[stepnstone]

Most acorn poisonings have included vomiting as well as lethargy.
Is it possible she is constipated? How does her belly feel to you, soft
or hard?

Edit: Question: New bag of FV- 32/40 or 20/50?

[Amathis84]

I wondered that at first but she let a pellet loose on my arm when I was holding her. It was whiter than normal though. They've been yellow and firm. This was a little more white. They are both on FV and the Fox is getting around 25cc and the grey is getting around 15cc. 2 water to 1 formula.

[farrelli]

White usually means overfeeding - too much or too often. It's not getting a chance to digest. So how much do you feed and how often? FV takes a bit longer to digest than many other formulas.

[Amathis84]

She is also shaking pretty bad. Not convulsion like but just shaking... She doesn't normally do that. She also normally just jumps up when you walk in.

[stepnstone]

I wondered that at first but she let a pellet loose on my arm when I was holding her. It was whiter than normal though. They've been yellow and firm. This was a little more white. They are both on FV and the Fox is getting around 25cc and the grey is getting around 15cc. 2 water to 1 formula.

White is usually a indication of over feeding.
Either too much at a feeding or feedings too
close together.
How does her belly feel and look? Does it appear rounded?
Can you stimulate her to try to move the bowels?

[Amathis84]

She has been at 21cc for about 2 weeks now. They get fed approximately every 6-8 hours.

Belly is not rounded, nor hard.

[stepnstone]

Which FV was this new bag, 32/40 or 20/50?
Does she appear bloated?

[Amathis84]

20/50 which is what the last bag was. She does not appear bloated. Belly is not swollen nor is it hard.

Thanks so much for the responses! I'm still trying to give her water which she is not a fan of...

[stepnstone]

We haven't had any problems with digestion of the 20/50 to my knowledge.
Assuming upset stomach, moving the offending out is what you want to accomplish.
If mine I'd want to see poops. You could also give her 1-2 drops infant gasx if warranted.
Can you give her some access to some heat? Heat always makes the aches feel a little better.

[Amathis84]

The grey is doing fine. So I'm not thinking it's the actual batch... She did poop earlier even though it was only one pellet that I saw. I'm rubbing her belly now. She is enjoying it for sure and just peed. My GF just went to the store to get MT and charcoal. Would it be ok to give her a little peroxide to induce vomit?

[stepnstone]

Do not make a squirrel vomit!
Their systems are not designed to vomit as strange as that sounds.
This is why when a squirrel does vomit, you have a serious problem!

[Amathis84]

Ok, got it! I am giving her the charcoal now. Does this dehydrate them?

[stepnstone]

BTW... One pellet does not constitute a good poop.

I'm really thinking she has more of a stomach upset
then an actual poisoning. I would be careful not to
overload her system with more she will just have to
process.
With the suspected "bad" nut being consumed over 6
hours ago the administering of charcoal would be totally
useless.

[Amathis84]

My gf was feeding her when she noticed she was acting funny. She dropped 2 pellets with her and 1 with me. I just found this out.

[stepnstone]

My gf was feeding her when she noticed she was acting funny. She dropped 2 pellets with her and 1 with me. I just found this out.

Still don't qualify as a good dump in my book and you did say
her pellet was whitish and that's an upset. Outside appearing
uncomfortable and not wanting to move around does she seem
to be alert?

[Amathis84]

Well hopefully she starts to have a few movements with all of this water. Her poop was white. It is normally a tan. I have her in the bedroom next to the bed with a heating pad beneath her. I will keep you all posted tomorrow.

Thanks again for all of the help!

[stepnstone]

As mentioned white poos are generally from over feeding unless...
Your not giving any extra calcium supplements are you??

I hope your baby gets to feeling better come day break, please
do come back on with an update. I'll put her in prayers...

[Amathis84]

Thanks again for all of the help. She is still the same this morning, just not wanting to move. She is alert and she picks her head up and looks at you but she is keeping her little body pretty still. She did not have a bowel movement last night or this morning. I put her in a box so I could put a heating pad underneath her. What can I do other than a warm qtip/cotton ball on her belly and genitals to get her poopin?

[TubeDriver]

This is a long shot but could she have fallen in her cage and injured a leg/paw? Maybe inspect her limbs and rule this out.

If it is not some other type of injury, the suggestions Stepnstone should be followed.

[Nancy in New York]

PUSH the fluids. Keep that up, do a little bit and if you can stimulate her to make her pee out the toxins if in fact this is from the acorn.
I would take the bag of FV and dump it into a bowl, and stir with a whisk or something similar to get it mixed up really well. Put it back into the bag after mixing up well.
I had a new bag of the 20/50 and when I made it, I was shocked to see all this residue on the side of the bowl. It had a textured feel to it. island rehabber was here and witnessed this as well. :dono
How is she doing this morning. Push fluids, if she is constipated, it will help, if it's toxins, it will help...........and remember to stimulate so that she pees it out, (if she allows you to).

TD might be on to something, check her out.
I am thinking more intestinal problems with the white poo, or the acorn if it were bad.
BUT it's definitely worth a shot to check her limbs.

[Amathis84]

She gets around pretty good in her cage (although accidents happen). I did look and feel her legs and everything seemed to be normal. She is a really really BIG baby. I need to get her weight because she is bigger than my previous squirrel full grown. She is only 12ish weeks.

I found her on the road standing next to her mother who had just gotten ran over. She was squeeling when I got there and barely had top teeth. Her tail had fuzz but no long hair. I assume she was around 7 weeks at the time and that was 4 weeks ago.

I just got off the phone with the gf and she said that foxy pooped while giving her water and it was brown. Hopefully as the day goes on she will get to feeling better!!

So, this is how we are feeding. We will make enough milk for the day and leave it in the fridge until ready to feed. We are feeding foxy 21cc and pixie around 12cc. We are mixing 2/1 water/formula ratio. Do we need to increase the water a bit? I know everyone says feed them formula as long as they will take it but foxy is HUGE. Not fat or round but BIG! I will take some pics of the two of them along with their weights.

[stepnstone]

She gets around pretty good in her cage (although accidents happen). I did look and feel her legs and everything seemed to be normal. She is a really really BIG baby. I need to get her weight because she is bigger than my previous squirrel full grown. She is only 12ish weeks.

I found her on the road standing next to her mother who had just gotten ran over. She was squeeling when I got there and barely had top teeth. Her tail had fuzz but no long hair. I assume she was around 7 weeks at the time and that was 4 weeks ago.

I just got off the phone with the gf and she said that foxy pooped while giving her water and it was brown. Hopefully as the day goes on she will get to feeling better!!

So, this is how we are feeding. We will make enough milk for the day and leave it in the fridge until ready to feed. We are feeding foxy 21cc and pixie around 12cc. We are mixing 2/1 water/formula ratio. Do we need to increase the water a bit? I know everyone says feed them formula as long as they will take it but foxy is HUGE. Not fat or round but BIG! I will take some pics of the two of them along with their weights.

Poop is good! Hopefully the more she is able to move out of her system the more responsive she will become.
A (normal) baby's tail at 7 weeks of age will have more then fuzz on their tail, actually their tail hair will start to fluff and get fuller at this stage. She is possibly younger then you predict.
Babies are fed 5-7% each feeding according to their weight. Without knowing her weight how do you gage to feed her without over feeding her?

[Amathis84]

This is Foxy. She is 7.6oz.

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[Amathis84]

Poop is good! Hopefully the more she is able to move out of her system the more responsive she will become.
A (normal) baby's tail at 7 weeks of age will have more then fuzz on their tail, actually their tail hair will start to fluff and get fuller at this stage. She is possibly younger then you predict.
Babies are fed 5-7% each feeding according to their weight. Without knowing her weight how do you gage to feed her without over feeding her?

We started them off at around 7% bw and just been gradually increasing by their size increases. We are obviously overfeeding because Foxy who is 7.6oz should be eating 16cc and shes been getting 21cc. Pixie is around 4oz and has been getting 12cc instead of 8cc.

[stepnstone]

We started them off at around 7% bw and just been gradually increasing by their size increases. We are obviously overfeeding because Foxy who is 7.6oz should be eating 16cc and shes been getting 21cc. Pixie is around 4oz and has been getting 12cc instead of 8cc.

And there you go...

[pappy1264]

I just read through this thread. They should not be going 8 hours between feedings. They should be on approx. every 5 hours, from looking at their pics, 5-7% of their weight.

[Duckman]

4.6oz is 120 grams. 5 percent is 6cc every 5-6 hours.

[Amathis84]

I just read through this thread. They should not be going 8 hours between feedings. They should be on approx. every 5 hours, from looking at their pics, 5-7% of their weight.

Well, they typically eat every 6 hours but at night when we are sleeping they don't eat until that following morning which is typically around 8hrs.

[Duckman]

Sorry, misread the weight. At 7.6oz that is 215g, it should only be 10-11cc. I think she is getting way too much food personally.

[Nancy in New York]

At 215 grams the rule of thumb (if going by the 5-7%) 10.75 to 15 mls of formula at every feeding.

[stepnstone]

It is a fact that a squirrel's stomach capacity is 5% of it's body weight.
That being said we are already pushing it when feeding at 7%.

[Nancy in New York]

It is a fact that a squirrel's stomach capacity is 5% of it's body weight.
That being said we are already pushing it when feeding at 7%.


WOW, not sure I've ever heard that one, interesting.
Wonder why we always recommend to newbies 5-7%.
Most of us that have done this for years KNOW when to stop,
and typically it goes way past the 7%, especially at this age.
I don't recommend it to anyone that is new to squirrels, there has to
be guide lines, but after years of raising, it's just something you learn.
How are the little ones doing by the way?

[stepnstone]

WOW, not sure I've ever heard that one, interesting.
Wonder why we always recommend to newbies 5-7%.
Most of us that have done this for years KNOW when to stop,
and typically it goes way past the 7%, especially at this age.
I don't recommend it to anyone that is new to squirrels, there has to
be guide lines, but after years of raising, it's just something you learn.
How are the little ones doing by the way?

I have wondered the same thing and honestly believe suggesting that 7% has been responsible for a large majority of diarrhea and other stomach related illness we see on here. Many right out the gate start feeding at 7%.
I personally have taken in babies with issues that "finder" was feeding 7% (or better). I give a couple feeds of hydration to flush them, cut them back to 5% formula and not have another problem out of them. And my babies grow and gain well!

I can also name you 5 squirrel sites right off the top of my head that recommend (only) feeding at 5%. Six if you want to include WMB (pg#60) who also recommends feeding at 5% although "they suggest" stomach capacity is "approximately" 5-7% of body weight.

[Nancy in New York]

I have wondered the same thing and honestly believe suggesting that 7% has been responsible for a large majority of diarrhea and other stomach related illness we see on here. Many right out the gate start feeding at 7%.
I personally have taken in babies with issues that "finder" was feeding 7% (or better). I give a couple feeds of hydration to flush them, cut them back to 5% formula and not have another problem out of them. And my babies grow and gain well!

I can also name you 5 squirrel sites right off the top of my head that recommend (only) feeding at 5%. Six if you want to include WMB (pg#60) who also recommends feeding at 5% although "they suggest" stomach capacity is "approximately" 5-7% of body weight.


Perhaps this practice should be modified, since this has been posted all over the board
as long as I remember.
I also think that keeping the squirrels age in mind is vital when recommending anything.
If formula is the only food source at 11 weeks old, 5% won't cut it, if fed only every 6-8 hours.

[stepnstone]

I also think that keeping the squirrels age in mind is vital when recommending anything.
If formula is the only food source at 11 weeks old, 5% won't cut it, if fed only every 6-8 hours.

I agree! Once a baby has "matured" they will usually let you know when they've had enough and can consume whatever as long as the stomach/bowels are not effected. For some this can come as early as 7-8 weeks. I would hope at 11 weeks of age formula would not be the only food source.