release as a group or singly?

[acorniv]

I need to go out of town this week, and so have been looking for a local rehabber to take Miss Hickory. I found one on the list on this board who sounds very caring, but she too is going out of town. Her squirrels ( and possibly mine) will be looked after by a second rehabber who does not currently have any squirrels, but has in the past. My gut feeling is both these women are kind, responsible peopel who look after the best interests of all their charges.

The rehabber who would actually be looking after mine will agree to do it only under the condition that Miss Hickory stay with the group so they can form a bond and all be released together, as a unit that looks after one another. This makes a lot of sense to me ( but dashes my hopes of releasing her in my own yard :Cry ). I have not seen this mentioned on this list and wondered how all of you feel about it? I realize it can't always happen because there aren't always enough squirrels to form a posse, but this woman does have some.

I want to do whatever is best for MH, of course.:Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

It's always better to release in a group, so long as MH has a chance to 'get to know' these squirrels over the week that she is with them. Squirrels who are total strangers to each other won't necessarily be friends once released.....but if she can make a friend or two her release will be that much easier and safer.

[Mars]

I agree with Island. I always try to release at least in pairs. But perhaps you can set it to be there for the release? :)

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I agree with Mars and IR. She will be much better off with a group of squirrels. This way she can learn the squirrely ways and make some friends. They are always much less scared and anxious when they are in a group. I would ask them if you could watch the release. It is a real treat seeing the little tykes go free. And even though you won't be able to see Miss Hickory every day like you had hoped, she will have new friends to hang out with that she can be with all the time.

[Buddy'sMom]

I'm not a rehabber with experience to offer you, but with the benefit of hindsight, certainly agree it would be best to release as a group that knows each other. We spent the first week of Buddy's release -- as the new little kid on the block -- watching him getting chased and harrassed by "Big Squirrel." Nothing terrible happened, though we were moved to intervene a few times. Very hard on a mom to watch baby being bullied and trying to stand back and let them work it out. So a "buddy" or two to hang out with would be very nice.

Would the rehabber agree to "let the squirrels decide"? That is, see how it goes and if they all seem to get along, release as a group. But if, for whatever reason, they don't, she would let Miss H come back to you for release? From reading around TSB, it seems that some squirrels become fast friends upon introduction, but others don't seem to take to the concept of being buddies with anyone (and that could be yours or the other ones :) ).

Is the rehabber amenable to letting you come to watch the release and take pictures? That would at least let you participate. And would put your mind at ease of you could see Miss H in her new home. (Though you should be aware that others have planned to be there for a release and "stuff happened" resulting in an earlier-than-scheduled-release -- and a very disappointed mom.)

Good Luck! You've been such a devoted mother to Miss H that I'm sure you will be able to figure out what is best for her. :grouphug :grouphug Let us know what happens.

[acorniv]

Wow! That was quick :) Thanks folks. Those were all great posts

It does feel right in my gut to go this route. I discussed it with my family yesterday and we had identical reactions - it's Sooooo sad for us, but does sound like the best option for her. Your posts will help make all of us feel more positive about it. Gosh, will it ever be hard though! My 12 yo, who got up at dawn to go to work wiht ehr dad and collect MH and has hung in there and helped every step of the way, just gulped and asked if we can visit her. We definately plan to ask if we can be there for the release. Sad as it is, it would be incredible to see her find a companion!

BTW, I've long worried because she is so tiny, but in the last 10 days she has had a big growth spurt and put on a bit of a belly for the first time, besides. She did this immediately after weaning. She now weighs just shy of a pound, up from about 9 ounces just a couple weeks ago. I feel a great sense of relief that she won't be snack sized after all. She's also less skittish and stronger over all. Now if I can get her to crack nuts, including those on predators...

:thankyou :alright.gif :thankyou

[acorniv]

Buddy's Mom, I have read about Buddy's troubles and my heart was there with him and you as he battled the playground bully. I've read that the bullies are usually females, and judging by the way MH beats the tar out of her stuffed animals and us, I think that might be true :shakehead :innocent :sorry I never thought I'd root for a bully before, but I've never been in the position of sending an inept adolescent out to make her way in the world before!

Ironically, my 16 yo son is also heading out into the big world - he leaves to teach kayaking for 9 weeks on May 30th. They are at pretty equicelant ages, however, he has been well prepared, knows all the rules, and what will happen if he doesn't follow them. Even though he will be doing something with inherent dangers, I know he is strong and well trained and I have no fear or trepidation about his going. MH, OTOH, is emotionally immature ( I swear, she has no more sense than a squirrel!), pays no attention to laws of nature, physics or humans, and likes to play in traffic. I'm scared to death for her!

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

acorn, don't be scared for baby..she was created with all the skills she needs. She will know how to build a nest, know how to look for and bury food. She willbe fine, make sure you can go & visit her?

[Buddy'sMom]

....MH, OTOH, is emotionally immature ( I swear, she has no more sense than a squirrel!), pays no attention to laws of nature, physics or humans, and likes to play in traffic. I'm scared to death for her!

Right there, with you!!! (That actually, would be one of the benefits of not having her in your yard -- it's nice to see them, but the terror pretty much never stops. Releasing her elsewhere, you can keep a much happier mental image going.)

Hope your son has a blast (safely, of course)! That sounds like a great experience! :thumbsup

[pamela lee]

As you know I'm not a rehabber either, but I would have given anything for Peanut to have even just one friend to go out into the world with. I felt so sorry for him being out on his own. Sometimes I think it would have been better if I had not released him here at our farm. I have not seen hide nor hair of him in 2 weeks, so I worry constantly. We have 10 acres, so I just keep telling myself he's moved farther into the woods. We have alot of females with little ones so I think they keep the boys away.

[acorniv]

Right there, with you!!! (That actually, would be one of the benefits of not having her in your yard -- it's nice to see them, but the terror pretty much never stops. Releasing her elsewhere, you can keep a much happier mental image going.)

Hope your son has a blast (safely, of course)! That sounds like a great experience! :thumbsup

Yes, I do see the benefits of not having to run across some tragedy and not having to live with anxiety >sigh<. I really would love to see Miss Hickory find someone to buddy up with.

Okay, the plot thickens.

Today I finally spoke with the woman who has squirrels - over 30, she says. We'll give her the benefit of the doubt - I don't know how anyone can maintain sanity and a good humor with that many bushy tailed charges, BUT. She was very abrupt and forceful with me. Anytime anyone is that bullying in their tone I wonder what they are trying to hide?

She probably has her heart in the right place where squirrels are concerned, and seems knowledgeable, but she clearly was not going to stand for questions from me about how she does things, and I wasn't being remotely antagonistic about it - she was. She grilled me and approved of everything I've done but all she would say about how she does things is that she isolates for disease and to give them time to pick up the scent of the house, and then introduces them one at a time to other squirrels. Nothing about cages, or food, etc. Just was willing to say what she volunteered, and got a superior tone of voice when I asked any questions.

She was insistant that I bring her this weekend, instead of waiting until right before we leave. Her reasoning made some sense - she herself is going out of town and her husband ( not the bird rehabber) will be feeding the squirrels while she is gone. She wants time to acclimate her.

However. My 12 yo, who has been the most dedicated careperson involved, is out on the Apallachian trail, and cannot even be reached by phone. How would you all feel if you were 12 and your mom dropped off the squirrel you raised from a baby without even telling you, let alone giving you a chance to say goodbye? That's the stuff life long wounds are made of. When I said I really need to give her a chance to say goodbye, this woman all but screamed at me that I was being selfish to think of a kid instead of the squirrel's best interests. By then I was biting my tongue.

She swung into a lecture about how she does not tolerate long goodbyes. She said I could drop her off, but there would be no hanging around her living room. Again, a request that might be reasonable, but how about a little diplomacy?

She does a soft release and being present for that is 'out of the question', and BTW she does not even keep track of who is who once they enter her release zone. Translation - don't phone to see how things went. Then I got the patronizing lecture about how little people like me get attached, and big people like her are 'professional' and don't.

My family wants what is best for MH, but they will never accept that what is best for her is to go to someone who is harsh to the point of being mean to people. I'm sitting here feeling sick with concern that I won't find a better place, and dreading the next phone call to the next rehabber. What if I can't find one in time?

Isn't it reasonable to expect something better than this?

[drakkonia]

Geez, sounds like you are in a tough situation. I think I definitely would be one of the "little people". How could you not care, at least to some degree? This lady sounds like a condescending *****.

[Kathy56]

Its hard to let go. I agree with everybody that it is better to release as a group. My first squirrel was an only child and I was afraid to release him in my back yard(next door neighbor has 2 demon sons). I was afraid that until he wilded up he would come around and maybe get hurt by them. I took him to a wildlife center about 2 hours from here and they released him for me. He loves it there and is doing great. He will soon be a year old. I have 2 now that were brought to me when they were about 6 weeks old and I will release them in my yard because they were wild when I got them and they are still wild. They do not like humans.I don't worry about them coming back because once that door is open they will take off. My baby AJ has been with me since he was under a week old. He is starting to wild up some but I will take him back to the same center because humans are all he has ever known and he will be safe there until he is completely wild. Rufus(my first boy)made a friend before he was released so he had somebody to kind of show him what it was like to be wild. Hopefully Rufus and Rat-tail will befriend AJ when I take him down for his release next month.(I will leave BJ and CJ's cage outside for them as long as they need it. I don't worry about them getting close enough to demon sons is what I meant.)Sorry didn't mean to ramble. I tend to do that from time to time. Old age.:D

[acorniv]

Geez, sounds like you are in a tough situation. I think I definitely would be one of the "little people". How could you not care, at least to some degree? This lady sounds like a condescending *****.

You said it, and you know what? That is fine - so long as it isn't about getting someone's needs met. Condescend about how I dress, where I live, how bit my butt is, but not about caregiving.

[Critter_Queen]

Is there anyone else that you know of that has just a few squirrels? I'm a rehabber and I can tell my squirrels apart...I also do soft release and have invited finders to that event in the past. It's VERY cool for the finder to see what they were able to help accomplish. ESPECIALLY CHILDREN. We need to grow the next generation of rehabbers...

I know it's better for MH to have a buddy...but this woman doesn't sound very nice at all. I would ALWAYS be willing to answer ANY questions from ANYONE about what I do....That's PART of what we're supposed to do!

:grouphug I'm sorry you're put in this tough spot... Good luck with whatever you decide....

[acorniv]

I thought I would mention that I live in North West Georgia, in case anyone knows of a rehabber that might be a better match. I am just north of Atlanta, but also just an hour and a half from Chatanooga and can reach the corner of several states in a couple of hours. I will drive for peace of mind! We could even possibly meet someone on the way to St. Louis from here on Thursday, although I want her to go somewhere with weather she is used to, and as was discussed on this board recently, squirels here are very small, so she should stay close enmough to here to be around size mates.

If I haven't told you all lately, you've all been and continue to great mroal support in this endeavor. I'm really upset about that phone call, and you make me feel like it will work out, one way or another.

[Buddy'sMom]

Wow, you are in a tough spot. It might be possible to give the snippy rehabber the benefit of the doubt in some things -- tough day, busy with lots of babies, blah, blah, blah. It still could be the best thing for Miss H (though clearly not the best for you and your family -- a little compassion for what you are dealing with would be nice).

HOWEVER .... your 12 year old. Geez. You're right. She will be totally crushed and will remember it forever. When does she return? Vs. when the rehabber goes out of town? I mean is there ANY possibility to work this out? Maybe tomorrow will be a better day and the rehabber will feel more accomodating??? :dono

[Kathy56]

We must have been typing at the same time. Read what you had last posted after I got through rambling. The people at the center where I released Rufus were as sweet and as helpful as anybody could hope for. I was told that I could call and check on Rufus anytime I wanted to and I could come and visit when I wanted. Miss Janet and the volunteers there know all the animals by name and they care for the human moms and dads.I too would want my child to have a chance to say goodby.I hope you can find somebody to help you.

[Buddy'sMom]

Kathy -- isn't KOW in South Carolina? That still could be a good distance, but I thought it was worth asking (my geographical details about GA, SC are limited to the parts that 95 runs through, not the Atlanta area)

[acorniv]

Is there anyone else that you know of that has just a few squirrels? I'm a rehabber and I can tell my squirrels apart...I also do soft release and have invited finders to that event in the past. It's VERY cool for the finder to see what they were able to help accomplish. ESPECIALLY CHILDREN. We need to grow the next generation of rehabbers...

I know it's better for MH to have a buddy...but this woman doesn't sound very nice at all. I would ALWAYS be willing to answer ANY questions from ANYONE about what I do....That's PART of what we're supposed to do!

:grouphug I'm sorry you're put in this tough spot... Good luck with whatever you decide....


Thanks so much for saying that. :Love_Icon It's how I feel too. I'm involved with several dying arts where the adults see ourselves as mentors, as well as doing whatever the thing is. It is only since I have had MH that I realized how many close calls I had when I was single to becoming a rehabber myself, but I was run off by someone like this. It was that attitude that made me stop taking orphans and injured animals to rehabbers and nature centers.

Being on this board has renewed my faith in people who care for animals. However, we here all have one common bond - we are all willing to talk to humans or we would not be here!

As for children, society desperately needs to begin teaching them that empathy is a good thing - it gives us mental health. So ironic that you wrote about the need for kids to see the good they have done. Just as I read it, my 16 yo walked in and said "Well! I feel good. I got to do a good deed today!" I know everyone here will relate to that, but not everyone in the world is fortunate enough to get it, especially in countries like mine, where so much is taken for granted.

[drakkonia]

I would keep calling as many rehabbers as you can. I'm sure you will eventually find one who can accommodate you. And I agree that your child deserves the chance to say goodbye. At least I think so.

[pamela lee]

I live in Alabama. I emailed and spoke to a rehabber in Columbus, Georgia last winter about releasing Peanut. It turned out I chose to over winter him until this spring. She seemed real accomadating and concerned. I can't remember her name but I think she has her own web site on squirrel care. I know that's kind of far but maybe she knows someone closer to you.

[Pam]

Acorniv~ Do you think the rehabber might release all of the squirrels together in your backyard?

[pamela lee]

Now that would be alot of fun. New fuzzy friends everywhere. That a great idea.

[drakkonia]

Acorniv~ Do you think the rehabber might release all of the squirrels together in your backyard?

Yeah, that's a good idea. Maybe you could offer to take some of her squirrels for release at your place, and that way you could still see MH? Although I wonder if you would want all 30... Hope you have a lot of trees! :D

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

Was the lady you spoke to out of a rehab center? There is no way one person could possibly raise all those squirrels from little babies, is there? If it is a center, I can understand everything she told you. They do not want one person standing watching a release and scaring all the other squirrels (it might make MH feel better with you and you will feel great, but all the other squirrels will be scared out of their minds with you staring at them and will not want to leave their cage. And about the not keeping track of them after they are in the release cage, it is almost impossible to keep track of them and they are so wild and the cage is probably so big that to get a weight on them all would be impossible.

[Pam]

Acorniv~ Is there a nice responsible teenager or young adult in your neighborhood that might come to your house and take care of Miss Hickory? When I go out of town, my daddy-in-law comes over to feed Roxy. I cut her food small enough to stick through the wire of her cage. That way I don't have to worry about her getting out. She has a water bottle that hangs on the outside of her cage. I must admit...I still worry...it is usually a miserable trip. I have even stayed at home while my family went out of town. There are times I have to choose my sons over Roxy...they will be grown and gone soon. It is so hard making decisions when you love them all. Good luck on your decisions!! :grouphug

[acorniv]

:jump You folks are getting even crazier ideas than mine right now! Take all her squirrels! And I thought I had problems now! :jump Naw, this woman is far too possessive to allow any to come back here. She's got that 'ony I can do it' thing going on.

My crazy idea at the moment is we ask our petsitters to sit MH, in the event we find no one before we leave. They are eager to meet her, so might actually agree to it, and they'd do right by her. I'd have to feel it out, and see. We have not had people over to interact with her because the fewer humans she meets the better, but I'd make an exception in this case. They are a family and are my pet's favorite sitters. The advantage to this is that we'd be able to finish rehabbing MH ourselves. The disadvantage is my sitters my never sit for us again!

MH and a porch squirrel have already begun showing an interest in one another, so there is a possibility of the two of them bonding. That was my original thought, back when we took her in. MH is a little aggressive about the porchling, but the other ( appears to be another female) doesn't flinch, and doesn't respond in kind. MH chitters or shows off and the other just watches. This morning MH ran up and down the curtains while the other squirrel watched.

Keep brainstorming, folks! I need all the ideas I can get, crazy or not. The laughs help too

:D

[acorniv]

I live in Alabama. I emailed and spoke to a rehabber in Columbus, Georgia last winter about releasing Peanut. It turned out I chose to over winter him until this spring. She seemed real accomadating and concerned. I can't remember her name but I think she has her own web site on squirrel care. I know that's kind of far but maybe she knows someone closer to you.

Hmmm. Does Peanut need a playmate? Of course I'd feel really bad if you released her in your yard and she kicked the stuffing out of Peanut!!! I do happen to be headed to Huntsville right after we get back from Chicago, so if my petsitters watched her... How is that for a crazy idea? Now I am obsessed that she have a mate.

Columbus is a long drive from here - probably could not manage that before we leave.

[Pam]

Acorniv~ I didn't read very well...I didn't see the 30...I read it as a 3.:D

I use to live in Lithia Springs...I'll try to think of some of my animal loving friends...

[acorniv]

Acorniv~ Is there a nice responsible teenager or young adult in your neighborhood that might come to your house and take care of Miss Hickory? When I go out of town, my daddy-in-law comes over to feed Roxy. I cut her food small enough to stick through the wire of her cage. That way I don't have to worry about her getting out. She has a water bottle that hangs on the outside of her cage. I must admit...I still worry...it is usually a miserable trip. I have even stayed at home while my family went out of town. There are times I have to choose my sons over Roxy...they will be grown and gone soon. It is so hard making decisions when you love them all. Good luck on your decisions!! :grouphug

This neighborhood? Yeah - MY kids, >sigh<. they're freaks of nature here. However, there are a couple of adults....I will ask my neighbor, who took in a great dane pup with no hearing and half an eye that she sees a few shadows with, so she would not be euthanized ( super dog, BTW!) She may know someone. MH's cage is too small to leave her in for a week. She really needs to get out and run and jump. This one is 26" X 26" X 38" so I let her out several times a day. Soon as we return I planned to make her larger one.

I have other people I should consider, so thanks for the idea. At least she is weaned.

Do you do that too? Go on trips and worry about your furry folks at home? It's the big bone of contention in my marriage. DH talks of getting an RV for this reason.

[acorniv]

Acorniv~ I didn't read very well...I didn't see the 30...I read it as a 3.:D

I use to live in Lithia Springs...I'll try to think of some of my animal loving friends...

Oh, Wonderful! :thankyou

I've got several animal loving friends but they all like their animals domesticated. The two biggest animal lovers I know are probably the two people who are most baffled that we are doing this.

You'd think I'd have connections through the Humane society since my kids volunteer at their thrift shop, but I tried that route - their rehabber has retired, and the vet she works at no longer has anyone to recommend either. Both of them are listed on most rehab lists. I've tried several lists, and have not exhausted all the names, but this is what I am running onto - a lot who used to do it but don't anymore.

[Pam]

Source of contention here, too!! John says, "Pam, they are animals." I say, "But...they are MY animals."

[Kathy56]

Buddy's Mom, KOW is in St. George,S.C. near Charleston.

[acorniv]

Was the lady you spoke to out of a rehab center? There is no way one person could possibly raise all those squirrels from little babies, is there? If it is a center, I can understand everything she told you. They do not want one person standing watching a release and scaring all the other squirrels (it might make MH feel better with you and you will feel great, but all the other squirrels will be scared out of their minds with you staring at them and will not want to leave their cage. And about the not keeping track of them after they are in the release cage, it is almost impossible to keep track of them and they are so wild and the cage is probably so big that to get a weight on them all would be impossible.

She is one person ( that she mentioned) working out of her house, and her dh pitch hits. She does keep some squirrels as long as 6 months, and she may actually be counting adutls on her property that are tehcnically released, or in the process. I think it is not possible she is referring to 30 infants! Perhaps 30 is her lifetime score, too. People count in different ways.

I don't think anything she said was horribly out of line - it was her secrecy and her manner that put me off. Plus a few inconsistancies and the surly attitude she had about children...I didn't catch her at a bad time, BTW - she returned my call.

You are correct - It may at times be disruptive to have people come and watch a release. However, she could have offered to give a report, or allow people to call and find out how it went.

I can't tell my porchlings apart, unless they have an injury. They are too shy for long observations. So that didn't bother me either. However, she went into this exasperated speech about how she can't tell them apart, and if she were to spray paint them they would attract hawks. I'd never ask her to spray paint them, nor did I ask her to keep tabs, etc. so I don't know where that came from. My guess is she really does not want MH, so was going out of her way to discourage me, instead of saying "I'm so sorry, we're booked - I'll send you a link to a list of other options, and best of luck to you". That, to me, is what being professional is, not being emotionally closed off from both squirrel and people.

[acorniv]

Source of contention here, too!! John says, "Pam, they are animals." I say, "But...they are MY animals."

Anmals saved me when I was a child. Truly got me through some horrific things. I have a vague memory of promising my cat I'd never forget it. Now, I can't. When I have no animal in my life I have an empty hole in my heart.

For dh, it is that they die. He cannot allow himself to fall in love because he knows he will outlive them. He had two dogs as a child - his only pets ever, and lost both tragically. He cannot handle the thought of ever feeling like that again. So, both of us have intense emotional reasons for our attitudes about animals. We both try to give but since we do have pets, he is the one who has to give the most. It's not something that can come out even.

The interesting thing is he can get almost as enthused about helping wildlife as I do. He held up traffic and risked life and limb to help an unappreciative and vicious loggerhead turtle out of the road, and recently went with me and helped with a squirrel nonrescue ( the nest was empty). He had a bird make a nest in his clothing last summer at BSA camp ( he's a leader) and gave that spot over to it. He told me about Miss Hickory, and although he kept saying "I must be crazy to tell you" over and over, he grins like a new papa when she jumps on him. It's pets he dislikes, not animals, even if they live in the house. I suppose here is less emotinoal attachment because you begin steeling yourself for their leaving when they arrive. Perhaps if I'd understood this when I married him, I'd have become a rehabber and not messed with permanent pets.

[acorniv]

Buddy's Mom, KOW is in St. George,S.C. near Charleston.

Bummer - that is too far. Sounds like a great place!

[Kathy56]

It is a great place. I wish everybody could experience what I did when I took Rufus there to release. Miss Janet held me in her arms and let me cry my eyes out. She is the sweetest person. I can call her with any kind of question and she always has the answer and is not stingy with her time. She loves my boy as much as I do. God worked overtime the day he created her.

[acorniv]

Wow...As they would say when I was much younger...You got some heavy stuff gone on there. ... I sure know about the animal life savers. My moms little **** Zoo ( I Have no idea how you spell it, but it sounds like that to me :D ) literally saved her life! My mom had went out to let her dog in, on a snowy, below freezing, late, evening and slipped and fell and broke her hip. Therefore, she could not move (besides the fact that she was 78 yo) and my dad had went to bed hours earlier. Mom said that dog ran below the bedroom window, and barked her head off...nothing...ran to the neighbors house, and barked..nothing...came back to my mom that was dressed only in a thin silk nightgown, and laid on top of her for 6 hours until my dad woke up in the middle of the night, and found her. My Mom said Precious (dog) would not get off her, and kept moving all over her body, which kept her blood circulating, and her body warm. The EMT's and Drs said Precious was the only thing that kept my mom from passing out and freezing to death.

I sure hope you find help with MH! :grouphug

That is just amazing. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad your mom made it! We give animals so little credit much of the time. What a goose bumpy story.

Here's some irony - I had a housemate who went backpacking with a friend and her German Shepard. The dog was skipping around, la de dah, and kicked lose a boulder, which rolled down the hill and hit Hilary, my housemate, breaking her hip and pelvis and pinning her under it. Her friend got her lose, but she could not move. She had to lie there in the woods all night while her friend went for help. They airlifted her out to a hospital the next day, and I'll never forget her phone call. A weak voice said "Please don't tell my mom", even before she said hello, LOL Love those doggies - sometimes they help and sometimes they hinder.