Wes from N FL(flier)

[wb_carpenter]

I noticed a cat in my backyard(yard used loosely ~1acre) and he was playing with something that was hopping around. I assumed it was an injured bird and went along with my business for a min or so(not much I could do there).

I went to check it out and it took me a good 30 seconds of scanning the ground after chasing the cat away to find him.

It was a baby flying squirrel. I was shocked and at first didn't know what it was. I wrapped him in my T-shirt and took him inside.

Once inside I put on some gloves before handling him which was a smart move because this little guy was terrified and didn't hold back with the bites.

I tucked him in to a tshirt into the corner and went to do some research. After hanging a shoebox in the area I had guessed he came from for a few hours watching him(we have a hawk that lives on the property) and waiting for momma. She didn't show, I decided he wouldn't survive the night and took him in.

Off to the store for some goats milk esbilac and a heating pad. His ferocity faded a little bit but he tried to bite when removing him from his corner but I could tell he settled down after. I made sure he was warm and had to force feed him a bit 1/4cc maybe at most(concerned about dehydration).

I then decided to bravely put him into my shirt pocket.. This made him pretty happy and he hung out in there for a few hours. Fiancee decided to give him a pet and he actually seemed to enjoy it and go to sleep.

I didn't put the glove back on and have picked him up about 6 times since. He actually runs into my hand now. All of this over the course of 15 hours.

I plan to keep him. I have no problems investing into a very large cage and supplies. I am also a realtor so I actually have quite a bit of free time to check up on him during different times a day. Fiancee is a Dentist and home otherwise. If he becomes too difficult to take care of I will contact a rehabber and part ways. There's also a local Education center/Zoo that only takes in native wildlife that has a very good reputation around here.

As to a guess at age.. I'm treating him as a ~6 week old although I am probably wrong. He doesn't seem interested in solid foods and yesterday any food at that. This morning he was much more active and ate a full CC of the formula.

So without further adieu

HEY JERK PUT ME DOWN!
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/IMG_0598.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/IMG_0598.jpg.html)

Settling down a bit now.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/IMG_0594.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/IMG_0594.jpg.html)

3-5 hours later and we're buddies(even more so this morning)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/20141020_225946.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/20141020_225946.jpg.html)

[wb_carpenter]

Next step is a cage.

At the moment he/she has free range of about 10x16' insulated sunroom.

I'm thinking minimum of 3x3 and leaning towards something very comfortable. Any suggestions are welcome and willing to spend up to a few hundred dollars for something comfortable for it.

This looked nice although maybe overkill for one.

245688

[HRT4SQRLS]

:wave123 Wes
:Welcome to The Squirrel Board

Poor little baby. Yes, he was scared so they will try to bite but even if they do, the bite doesn't really hurt. I'm glad he is settling down. I would guess that your baby is a little older than 6 weeks but not much older. Flyers do make great pets because they do bond with people BUT they are unlike any other pet you have ever had. They are nocturnal. You would need to study the diet requirements carefully. Diet is critical in keeping any squirrel healthy. If the diet isn't followed, they die. I know that sounds hard but it's just the way it is. Here is a link to the Healthy Diet for Flying Squirrels.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?37700-HEALTHY-DIET-for-PET-Flying-Squirrels

Your baby needs antibiotics. We recommend Ciprofloxacin or Baytril. When a squirrel is caught by a cat they can quickly die as a result of the bacteria (Pasteurella) in the cats mouth. If you have a single pill, we can dose it for you. We will need a weight on the baby.

The goats milk Esbilac is OK for now but I would go to henryspets.com and order FoxValley 32/40 formula. It has the extra protein needed by flying squirrels. I would also order a 1cc Sklar O-ring syringe and a Miracle nipple.
You can also order Flyer Block. Your baby can have solid food and I would give the Henry's Flyer block first. Until you get this, you can give your baby a little apple or other soft veggie from the healthy diet list.

What are you using to feed with? It's very important to use a 1cc syringe with a nipple. If they aspirate formula in their lungs they will get pneumonia. Be careful feeding. Hold the baby head up and point the syringe slightly up. Don't feed him like a human baby on his back. The formula will go in the lungs. The signs of pneumonia are lethargy, loss of appetite and clicking sound when breathing. You want to avoid this.

If you change your mind about keeping the baby we do have 2 rehabbers in your area. I would start reading. There is a lot to learn about flyers. :grin2 There is a section on this forum specifically about flying squirrels. It is under the Breed Specific section.

Again, welcome! I have 3 Flyers and I just LOVE them. :grin2

[HRT4SQRLS]

That cage looks nice and I feel more space is better. I have 2 Critter Nation doubles for 2 of my flyers. The other lives in a Henry cage available from Henry's Healthy Pets.

I would be VERY careful with having free range in a huge room at this point. They can get in SO much trouble. They will chew power cords. They will go under doors. The hazards go on and on. They will get under chair cushions, you can step on them, sit on them, crush them with doors. Oh my... so much to be careful of. VERY IMPORTANT ... most flyers in the home die from accidents. The number one hazard is drowning in the toilet so be very careful. You will need toilet ladders in the toilet. :tilt

Until you get a cage, I would make a temporary home in a large Sterilite Bin. You will need to drill holes in it. I don't know if he still needs it but I would offer heat. I would put a heating pad on low under half of the bin. If he doesn't need it he will go to the opposite side from the heating pad.

[HRT4SQRLS]

There is no such thing as 'overkill' when it comes to our flyer babies. :jump :jump
Yep, we are owned! :grin3

[wb_carpenter]

:wave123 Wes
:Welcome to The Squirrel Board

Poor little baby. Yes, he was scared so they will try to bite but even if they do, the bite doesn't really hurt. I'm glad he is settling down. I would guess that your baby is a little older than 6 weeks but not much older. Flyers do make great pets because they do bond with people BUT they are unlike any other pet you have ever had. They are nocturnal. You would need to study the diet requirements carefully. Diet is critical in keeping any squirrel healthy. If the diet isn't followed, they die. I know that sounds hard but it's just the way it is. Here is a link to the Healthy Diet for Flying Squirrels.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?37700-HEALTHY-DIET-for-PET-Flying-Squirrels

Your baby needs antibiotics. We recommend Ciprofloxacin or Baytril. When a squirrel is caught by a cat they can quickly die as a result of the bacteria (Pasteurella) in the cats mouth. If you have a single pill, we can dose it for you. We will need a weight on the baby. The only means I have to weigh would be a kitchen scale. Not sure I'd feel comfortable with its accuracy. Suggestions? The only antiboiotics I have in house is amoxicillin although I did find a few sources where vets give it to squirrels. Is the Baytril or Ciprofloxacin prescription only? If administered in humans I can easily get a script written for any antibiotic needed but easier is faster/better.

The goats milk Esbilac is OK for now but I would go to henryspets.com and order FoxValley 32/40 formula. It has the extra protein needed by flying squirrels. I would also order a 1cc Sklar O-ring syringe and a Miracle nipple.
You can also order Flyer Block. Your baby can have solid food and I would give the Henry's Flyer block first. Until you get this, you can give your baby a little apple or other soft veggie from the healthy diet list. Done and done. Are pine nuts okay in the mean time? I bought some for him and I have apples.

What are you using to feed with? It's very important to use a 1cc syringe with a nipple. If they aspirate formula in their lungs they will get pneumonia. Be careful feeding. Hold the baby head up and point the syringe slightly up. Don't feed him like a human baby on his back. The formula will go in the lungs. The signs of pneumonia are lethargy, loss of appetite and clicking sound when breathing. You want to avoid this. I have been very careful but will be moreso now.

If you change your mind about keeping the baby we do have 2 rehabbers in your area. I would start reading. There is a lot to learn about flyers. :grin2 There is a section on this forum specifically about flying squirrels. It is under the Breed Specific section. So far he has been a treat to have around but I will let you know.

Again, welcome! I have 3 Flyers and I just LOVE them. :grin2

I have been feeding him with a syringe with a side fluid tip. My fiancee is a dentist so we have plenty of those laying around. I've been feeding him as you said upright in my hands and not on his back(BTW i've defaulted to calling it a him or he/not sure).
Doesn't seem to make any clicking noise so far.

It was hard to feed him yesterday but today he's eating like a savage and grabbing at the syringe. I assume a good sign. He has mostly wanted to sleep so far but did come out in the past hour away from the heating pad into the open. still sleeping though.


I answered quite a few questions directly in the quote above in bold.

[wb_carpenter]

That cage looks nice and I feel more space is better. I have 2 Critter Nation doubles for 2 of my flyers. The other lives in a Henry cage available from Henry's Healthy Pets.

I would be VERY careful with having free range in a huge room at this point. They can get in SO much trouble. They will chew power cords. They will go under doors. The hazards go on and on. They will get under chair cushions, you can step on them, sit on them, crush them with doors. Oh my... so much to be careful of. VERY IMPORTANT ... most flyers in the home die from accidents. The number one hazard is drowning in the toilet so be very careful. You will need toilet ladders in the toilet. :tilt

Until you get a cage, I would make a temporary home in a large Sterilite Bin. You will need to drill holes in it. I don't know if he still needs it but I would offer heat. I would put a heating pad on low under half of the bin. If he doesn't need it he will go to the opposite side from the heating pad.

In the sunroom no electrical so not worried there although he could get to the heating pad cord. I'd venture that he still needs it as I have caught him in a shiver a few times when leaving my pocket or in the open. He seems fine now but better safe than sorry. I keep it so he can get away if needed.

He hasn't moved much. If I put him down he just kind of stays put and when I put my hand down he climbs in. I think he is very tired from being played with yesterday. I have a sterlite bin and will probably modify it in the mean time. Holes drilled to keep heating pad cord from cage/etc. Do you recommend a certain type of bedding? No towels of course dont wanna break his tiny toes.

I put him in the sunroom last night but during the day i'm was just planning on keeping him near me or in my pocket. Should I leave him alone for awhile or keep at trying to bond? In all honesty I think the bond has already happened.

I plan on waking him up in a couple hours or so to massage his genitals since he hasn't pooped yet. He did pee once though.



There is no such thing as 'overkill' when it comes to our flyer babies. :jump :jump
Yep, we are owned! :grin3

He will be well taken care of.

[wb_carpenter]

I also remember reading that they secrete a natural oil that repels most insects/parasites like fleas.

Is this true or should I be checking for fleas(haven't seen any)?

[Nancy in New York]

I saw your reply above concerning the antibiotics.
All you would need is ONE Cipro or Baytril pill and we
can break it down and dose for you.
However, when dosing, we need an accurate weight on the
squirrel to determine the correct amount of medicine to dose.
They sell gram scales in places like Bed Bath and Beyond, or
Walmart.
Cute little one you have there! :grouphug

[wb_carpenter]

I saw your reply above concerning the antibiotics.
All you would need is ONE Cipro or Baytril pill and we
can break it down and dose for you.
However, when dosing, we need an accurate weight on the
squirrel to determine the correct amount of medicine to dose.
They sell gram scales in places like Bed Bath and Beyond, or
Walmart.
Cute little one you have there! :grouphug

Seems as though either will need a prescription.

Should I go that route or can amoxicillin be substituted?

I will pick up a scale this morning if I can't find an accurate one capable of handling his weight.

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry for another post, but I just read what you wrote above.
With the heating pad, we suggest putting it half way UNDER the
container he is in, (outside of the container) so there would be no need to drill holes for the cord.
Also get fleece. All little squirrels love piles of fleece to crawl into.
I get blankets and cut them into little squares. NO polyfill, we had a flyer catch his little arm
in the fibers and the front paw then was taken off by the mom. I will find the link.
Get some soft material or blankets cut into 10 x 10 squares would work great. :thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

Seems as though either will need a prescription.

Should I go that route or can amoxicillin be substituted?

I will pick up a scale this morning if I can't find an accurate one capable of handling his weight.

Amoxi would NOT be the choice antibiotics for cat bites.
Clavamox or Cipro/Baytril is what you need.

IF you have a tropical fish store near you, or even Pet Smart they sometimes sell a product
called Fish Flox. That is actually Cipro. All you will need is ONE pill. You can get
any strength they have we will break it down. Call before going, it may save you some time.

[wb_carpenter]

Deleted

[wb_carpenter]

Amoxi would NOT be the choice antibiotics for cat bites.
Clavamox or Cipro/Baytril is what you need.

IF you have a tropical fish store near you, or even Pet Smart they sometimes sell a product
called Fish Flox. That is actually Cipro. All you will need is ONE pill. You can get
any strength they have we will break it down. Call before going, it may save you some time.

THANKS!

Will pick up the scale and Fish Flox this morning and report back.

Posted a few up but figured I'd repost.. Any flea concerns?

[Nancy in New York]

THANKS!

Will pick up the scale and Fish Flox this morning and report back.

In case I don't see your thread, just send me a pm.
I will check periodically and dose the medicine for you, if someone
hasn't helped you already.
Also while you are out, pick up a probiotic. Just something over the counter is
fine, preferably these capsules that you pull apart. You would just put a TINY
pinch in the formula, or other fluid that he takes.
They need probiotics 2 hours prior or 2 hours after giving antibiotics. :thumbsup

Flea concerns: hold him on a white towel and sort of rough up the fur a little.
IF you see little brown specks, it's most likely flea poop.
You can get a flea spray for kittens, nothing from Hartz, and spray a little
on a Kleenex and lightly go over his body with that. DON'T overdue.

Edit: Zodiac Flea & Tick spray for cats & kittens is a good product.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, flyers can have fleas but I would check him. Once you get rid of them you won't ever have them again unless you have other pets. Oh yes, other pets ... to cats they are prey. Be careful.
One very tiny drop of Revolution on the shoulders or a Dawn bath will get rid of them. I would prefer the warm Dawn bath. I avoid chemicals if I can especially with one so small.

Can your Fiancée the dentist write a script for Ciprofloxacin 250 mg . It is free at Publix, $4.00 at WalMart. Nancy can instruct you on how to break it down and dose. A kitchen scale that weighs in grams is what you need. I would guess that he weighs around 30g. Check your scale and see what it weighs him.

Oops, the apple is good but pine nuts aren't so good. They have a horrible Calcium to Phospate ratio so you don't want him to develop an appetite for something so unhealthy. With that said, it won't kill him.... Maybe one. :tilt

They bond very quickly with people. Once that bond is established he will be your best friend. You can't help but love them.

Yes, as Nancy said, get fleece and let him snuggle under it.

[Nancy in New York]

HRT4SQRLS I totally agree about a warm bath in dawn, I didn't recommend it
because this little bugger is so tiny, I would be afraid of dropping him in the water if he were squirmy. :eek :tilt
IF you do bathe, make sure you get him completely dry after.

Isn't revolution a prescription?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Wes, the FishFlox is Ciprofloxacin relabeled for aquarium use.
To be honest with you, I have never found it in pet retail stores. I order it online at California Vet Supply. You need it now so I would try to get the script and get it at Publix.

I have searched extensively for the FishFlox locally and have never found it and I doubt you will either. That's why I ordered it online.

[HRT4SQRLS]

HRT4SQRLS I totally agree about a warm bath in dawn, I didn't recommend it
because this little bugger is so tiny, I would be afraid of dropping him in the water. :rolf
IF you do bathe, make sure you get him completely dry after.

Isn't revolution a prescription?

Yep, they are slippery little boogers. Be careful.:grin2

Revolution is prescription but some people do have it around for other pets. :thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

Wes where in Florida are you located.

[Nancy in New York]

Yep, they are slippery little boogers. Be careful.:grin2

Revolution is prescription but some people do have it around for other pets. :thumbsup


See, I never think of that because I don't have other animals. :) :thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

Here's the link about the little one that got his arm caught in poly fill.
Thank God this member posted, because up until this tragedy, poly fill was
recommended a lot on the board for bedding. :shakehead
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47893-Baby-flyer-arm-twisted-up-in-poly-fill-no-circulation

[wb_carpenter]

Wes where in Florida are you located.

Tallahassee

Working on getting that prescription from the fiancee. No big deal but she's busy and I'd like to have it soon.

[Nancy in New York]

Tallahassee

Working on getting that prescription from the fiancee. No big deal but she's busy and I'd like to have it soon.


We have a member who is a rehabber in Tallahassee, Ellymae is her user name.
Let me send her a pm and ask if she has any Cipro or Baytril.

[wb_carpenter]

We have a member who is a rehabber in Tallahassee, Ellymae is her user name.
Let me send her a pm and ask if she has any Cipro or Baytril.

Thanks alot!

I'll be back on the board in an hour or so I'm going out to see what I can find.

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks alot!

I'll be back on the board in an hour or so I'm going out to see what I can find.

I will make it a point of coming back on just to check your thread.
Good Luck.

[pixiepoo]

Everything other members have said so far is wonderful info! :) I definitely would get the FV32/40 and mix it with cream and yogurt. He looks to me to be about 8 weeks but it's difficult to judge by the pic (love the caption on the first photo btw!!!). I would get some blocks for him and let him nibble on it.

The cage pic that you posted looks great. I would only be concerned the edges of a cage like that. I use Critter Nation type cages and other similarly made cages for my flyers. They don't have any panels that hook together so there are no gaps for little toes or hands to get smashed. Martins cages are also good (my girl is in one) but I HATE the door hooks.

In regards to the fleas, I would try Diatomaceous Earth. I would be very cautious using any type of flea medication on a flyer. Even Revolution would be easy to overdose for an itty bitty flyer. You only use a single drop for a 200g+ grey so not sure how you would even measure it for a flyer. I would try more natural remedies first...but that is just me.

Super super cute baby! Love those buggy eyes! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[wb_carpenter]

I will make it a point of coming back on just to check your thread.
Good Luck.

No luck so far on the Cipro.. If I can get it best case would be late this evening.

I checked on the little guy. If its not a pouch or food hes not interested right now. I'm trying not to overfeed but since he missed his meals yesterday is it okay to feed until he decides or based on about 1cc/ml per 3 hours?

He weighs 19.8 grams BTW.


Everything other members have said so far is wonderful info! :) I definitely would get the FV32/40 and mix it with cream and yogurt. He looks to me to be about 8 weeks but it's difficult to judge by the pic (love the caption on the first photo btw!!!). I would get some blocks for him and let him nibble on it.

The cage pic that you posted looks great. I would only be concerned the edges of a cage like that. I use Critter Nation type cages and other similarly made cages for my flyers. They don't have any panels that hook together so there are no gaps for little toes or hands to get smashed. Martins cages are also good (my girl is in one) but I HATE the door hooks.

In regards to the fleas, I would try Diatomaceous Earth. I would be very cautious using any type of flea medication on a flyer. Even Revolution would be easy to overdose for an itty bitty flyer. You only use a single drop for a 200g+ grey so not sure how you would even measure it for a flyer. I would try more natural remedies first...but that is just me.

Super super cute baby! Love those buggy eyes! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

I ordered the FV32/40, blocks, and miracle nipple(have plenty of syringes).

I'm going to give him a day or so before I start or check for any treatment.. little bugger is stressed enough as it is.

Cage is on the list but it may be a week or so before I can decide where to order one from and what size I can deal with.

[Nancy in New York]

I can't stress enough the importance of getting him on Cipro or Baytril.
Cat Saliva is deadly to squirrels. They can go downhill extremely fast.
Call around and see if any friends of relatives have this.
Cipro is typically used for UTI's so perhaps a friend or relative would
have some left over.
All you need is ONE pill.

[wb_carpenter]

I can't stress enough the importance of getting him on Cipro or Baytril.
Cat Saliva is deadly to squirrels. They can go downhill extremely fast.
Call around and see if any friends of relatives have this.
Cipro is typically used for UTI's so perhaps a friend or relative would
have some left over.
All you need is ONE pill.

Apparently Fish Flox and all other antibiotics for fish are highly regulated now. I called 3 fish stores and that's not going to happen.

Working on other avenues. Did the local rehabber have any?

[wb_carpenter]

Back to the Amoxicillin..

Fish Flox is according to the company who makes it amoxicillin. "Ingredients:
250 mg Amoxicillin"

http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/index.php/fish-mox-amoxicillin.html

I have this on hand and it may be all I can get quickly(amoxicillin)

EDIT
Just read this

Never give oral penicillian, amoxicillin ,,or tetracycline to any rodent (including squirrels) unless directed to do so by a qualified veterinarian familiar with the unique physiology of rodents. Administering inappropriate antibiotics orally will obliterate the delicate balance of beneficial bacteria in the gut and may result in life threatening intestinal problems and diarrhea. Many antibiotics that cannot be taken orally are acceptable if injected in the right dosage. Their are antibiotics that are safe to administer orally in rodents, such as Baytril or Sulfamethoxazole (SMZ/TMP). Since your veterinarian may not frequently treat wildlife, antibiotics safe for pet rats are safe for squirrels.

[Nancy in New York]

Apparently Fish Flox and all other antibiotics for fish are highly regulated now. I called 3 fish stores and that's not going to happen.

Working on other avenues. Did the local rehabber have any?

She hasn't gotten back to me. I sent her a link to your thread as well.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I would definitely feed him. :thumbsup

The antibiotics are for prophylactic purposes ... to prevent an infection in this case. The baby doesn't currently have an infection but we want to prevent one because as Nancy stated they will crash fast. There are no puncture wounds, right?

If you can get the antibiotic this evening I think it will be OK.

Yes, the fish antibiotics and other antibiotics are being controlled now due to overuse and developing resistance. We do have a source online where they are available but I would get some this evening for sure.

[wb_carpenter]

I would definitely feed him. :thumbsup

The antibiotics are for prophylactic purposes ... to prevent an infection in this case. The baby doesn't currently have an infection but we want to prevent one because as Nancy stated they will crash fast. There are no puncture wounds, right?

If you can get the antibiotic this evening I think it will be OK.

Yes, the fish antibiotics and other antibiotics are being controlled now due to overuse and developing resistance. We do have a source online where they are available but I would get some this evening for sure.

No visible wounds.

What is your opinion on using Amoxicillin?

If fishflox is recommended then so should Amoxicillin since its the same thing correct?

I have Amoxicillin now.

Ciprofloxacin is rarely if ever prescribed by dentists and my fiancee is hesitant to write it.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Wes,
FishFlox is not the same as Amoxicillin. FishFlox is Ciprofloxacin. Amoxicillin is a penicillin derivative, the Ciprofloxacin is a fluoroquinolone class drug ... completely different.

Yes, I do understand that a dentist would rarely prescribe Cipro as it is not used for oral infections. I didn't think about that. I also understand her reluctance.

If the Amoxicillin is all that you are able to get, I think we should use it. The Amoxicillin will work but it is a little harder on the tummy. Pasteurella should be very sensitive to the Amoxicillin and it should work.

What is the strength of your Amoxicillin in mg. It is a pill, right?
What is the weight of your baby in grams?

You will need to give yogurt while on the antibiotics.

[wb_carpenter]

Wes,
FishFlox is not the same as Amoxicillin. FishFlox is Ciprofloxacin. Amoxicillin is a penicillin derivative, the Ciprofloxacin is a fluoroquinolone class drug ... completely different.

Yes, I do understand that a dentist would rarely prescribe Cipro as it is not used for oral infections. I didn't think about that. I also understand her reluctance.

If the Amoxicillin is all that you are able to get, I think we should use it. The Amoxicillin will work but it is a little harder on the tummy. Pasteurella should be very sensitive to the Amoxicillin and it should work.

What is the strength of your Amoxicillin in mg. It is a pill, right?
What is the weight of your baby in grams?

You will need to give yogurt while on the antibiotics.

It is in pill form and is 500mg.
The weight of the baby is 19.84 grams.

Specific type of yogurt?

How long on the antibiotics?

[Nancy in New York]

It is in pill form and is 500mg.
The weight of the baby is 19.84 grams.

Specific type of yogurt?

How long on the antibiotics?

I will start writing up how to dose this.
BUT if we can get you the Clavamox
that would be the best choice.

I wrote in a post to get the probiotics in capsule form.
All you have to do is pull them apart and give a tiny pinch
in water or formula 2 hours prior to 2 hours after.

Any type of yogurt would be ok. Typically full fat and vanilla seems
to be the choice of most.

[HRT4SQRLS]

19.84g ??? Are you sure about this? That is very light for a flyer. If that is correct, he is a lot younger than I thought.

Could you weight a quarter with your scale?
I weighed 2 quarters on my scale. They weigh 10 grams.

[wb_carpenter]

19.84g ??? Are you sure about this? That is very light for a flyer. If that is correct, he is a lot younger than I thought.

Could you weight a quarter with your scale?
I weighed 2 quarters on my scale. They weigh 10 grams.

Same on my scale.

He's that small.

He may be starving its hard to say as I dont know what he should look like.

[Nancy in New York]

I just want to give a HUGE shout out to our member Ellymae.
I contacted her via pm, and she answered immediately, had the
appropriate med., she hooked Wes up and even included a dosing syringe.
Now that's what I call service!
Thank you Ellymae! :bowdown

[wb_carpenter]

I just want to give a HUGE shout out to our member Ellymae.
I contacted her via pm, and she answered immediately, had the
appropriate med., she hooked Wes up and even included a dosing syringe.
Now that's what I call service!
Thank you Ellymae! :bowdown


Awesome person.

I really appreciate it.


Couple of pictures for size reference.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/20141021_161032.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/20141021_161032.jpg.html)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/20141021_161019.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/20141021_161019.jpg.html)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Well, he is a tiny one!!! Based on that weight he should be about 21days old (3 weeks) but their eyes open at 28 days so yes this baby is very underweight. I would guess that the eyes have opened recently so he is probably closer to 4-5 weeks old.

Based on this very young age, formula should be his main diet at this point. I really didn't realize he was this small.

Wow, EllyMae is da bomb. Thanks!

[wb_carpenter]

Well, he is a tiny one!!! Based on that weight he should be about 21days old (3 weeks) but their eyes open at 28 days so yes this baby is very underweight. I would guess that the eyes have opened recently so he is probably closer to 4-5 weeks old.

Based on this very young age, formula should be his main diet at this point. I really didn't realize he was this small.

Wow, EllyMae is da bomb. Thanks!

1cc of formula every 4 hours sound about right? Or should I just fatten him up as much as he wants to eat(seems hungry every couple hours)?

Esbilac for now but fox valley 32/40 is on the way. Is that still the correct formula for a 4-5 week old?

[Nancy in New York]

1cc of formula every 4 hours sound about right? Or should I just fatten him up as much as he wants to eat(seems hungry every couple hours)?

Esbilac for now but fox valley 32/40 is on the way. Is that still the correct formula for a 4-5 week old?

Is the Esbilac with probiotics?
There have been problems with the FV 32/40 with digestion. Can you change your order
to 20/50 and then when she is a little older feed her that?

Also you could do every 3 hours with one so small. She is still young and if she seems
hungry when given the right amount, just feed more often ~ 3 hours. OR you could go
up to the 7% rule of thumb and feed 1.4 mls.
Feeding amount is typically 5-7% of their body weight.

[wb_carpenter]

Is the Esbilac with probiotics?
There have been problems with the FV 32/40 with digestion. Can you change your order
to 20/50 and then when she is a little older feed her that?

Also you could do every 3 hours with one so small. She is still young and if she seems
hungry when given the right amount, just feed more often ~ 3 hours. OR you could go
up to the 7% rule of thumb and feed 1.4 mls.
Feeding amount is typically 5-7% of their body weight.

Goats milk esbilac & doesn't appear to have probiotics. I am feeding yogurt with the antibiotics.

should I simply just add the 20/50 to the order assuming the 32/40 lasts awhile/use the 32/40 later on?

[Nancy in New York]

OK, you should get the powdered Esbilac with probiotics.
You know I am going to let the flyer experts weigh in on the
two different FV formulas. I believe that some have had success
with the 32/40 so go with what they say.
I will alert some of them to your thread. :thumbsup

[pixiepoo]

Hi!!! At that age I would go ahead and give them the FV 32/40.
Mix

2 Tbsp FV
4 Tbsp water
2 Tbsp heavy cream
1 tsp (you can give a bit more...won't hurt him) full fat vania yogurt.

If yours is underweight he won't be for long on that mix!!!! You can also do a combo of 1 Tbsp FV And 1 Tbsp powdered Esbilac. I prefer the FV because it seems to digest slower and I have had great success with it. :) with one that little I would feed every 3-4 hours since it looks to be older but still tiny. My 16g boy gained over 15g in 6 days on this mix. Your little fella should do wonderfully on it! :)

[Nancy in New York]

Hi!!! At that age I would go ahead and give them the FV 32/40.
Mix

2 Tbsp FV
4 Tbsp water
2 Tbsp heavy cream
1 tsp (you can give a bit more...won't hurt him) full fat vania yogurt.

If yours is underweight he won't be for long on that mix!!!! You can also do a combo of 1 Tbsp FV And 1 Tbsp powdered Esbilac. I prefer the FV because it seems to digest slower and I have had great success with it. :) with one that little I would feed every 3-4 hours since it looks to be older but still tiny. My 16g boy gained over 15g in 6 days on this mix. Your little fella should do wonderfully on it! :)

Thank you pixiepoo for your help! :hug

[pixiepoo]

Also wanted to add that an approx 20g baby should eat between 1 and 1.4cc every feeding. If you are only feeding the Esbilac without the cream and yogurt he will be hungrier because it isn't as filling as the mix. I would feed him up to 1.5 or a bit more every 3 hours for now until you add the cream/yogurt. ;)

[wb_carpenter]

Hi!!! At that age I would go ahead and give them the FV 32/40.
Mix

2 Tbsp FV
4 Tbsp water
2 Tbsp heavy cream
1 tsp (you can give a bit more...won't hurt him) full fat vania yogurt.

If yours is underweight he won't be for long on that mix!!!! You can also do a combo of 1 Tbsp FV And 1 Tbsp powdered Esbilac. I prefer the FV because it seems to digest slower and I have had great success with it. :) with one that little I would feed every 3-4 hours since it looks to be older but still tiny. My 16g boy gained over 15g in 6 days on this mix. Your little fella should do wonderfully on it! :)

Will do. I will have the mix within a few days.


OK, you should get the powdered Esbilac with probiotics.
You know I am going to let the flyer experts weigh in on the
two different FV formulas. I believe that some have had success
with the 32/40 so go with what they say.
I will alert some of them to your thread. :thumbsup

I think until then I will give him the yogurt/esbilac for a couple days with the antibiotics until the 32/40 gets here.


Also wanted to add that an approx 20g baby should eat between 1 and 1.4cc every feeding. If you are only feeding the Esbilac without the cream and yogurt he will be hungrier because it isn't as filling as the mix. I would feed him up to 1.5 or a bit more every 3 hours for now until you add the cream/yogurt. ;)

Will do.

Finally got to see him at his best. Rested and at night. We'll just say he's very welcome around here.

He seems very happy and relaxed now. Doesn't want me to put him down and when I do he hauls and crawls into my hand.

He crawled into my shirt and is currently sleeping on my shoulder under the shirt.

I want to make sure he's going to survive before I invest in a good cage around $200.. Want something that looks nice(not my shoddy craftmanship) and as big as possible for him.

Any suggestions in the mean time?

I have him in a plastic bin(18wx24Lx20"deep) with a heating pad set to low underneath the bin and cut a fleece blanket into a couple pouches inside with my T-shirt(want him used to my scent).. Either that or he's in my pocket.

any concerns about the occasional shaking. Its quick in duration and he does it every few minutes or less when outside of a cuddle spot. He feels warm to the touch.

[wb_carpenter]

Just an update.

He seems to be doing well. Had 5 min or so of playtime last night and today but otherwise he's pretty intent on sleeping.

Feedings are going well but I may be feeding him too often. Ive been going with 1.5hrs and letting him eat until full. I will switch this up tomorrow to every 3 hours.

Shivers are still there occasionally. He also twitches in his sleep here and there but it looks like dreaming to me.

He has been with me either in my pocket or under my shirt so far today. He comes out to see me from time to time and seems to have 0 fear of me at this point. When he does try to get away its just to get back into a comfy dark spot. He doesn't seem to have any desire to run or play on the ground and if I set him down he just runs back into my hand.

A cage shipping is in the works but i'm going to create a new thread for that.

[pixiepoo]

Yay!!! I am so glad to hear he is doing well. The pic of you holding his wee little back leg is too cute! Love those twiggy little legs!

Don't worry about the shaking. Since he was a wild he is just a bit scared. My adult who I have had since a couple months old still does that when she is excited or nervous. The spazzing in their sleep is normal too. Just dreaming of running on trees! :grin3

That is good that you are working him up to the 3 hour feedings. Don't be alarmed if he doesn't eat a bunch the first feeding or two because he will catch on that he is getting fed less often. :)

They love to snuggle in pockets and under shirts like yours is. Do that as much as possible. That will really strengthen the bond he will have with you. :glomp

I can tell you are taking wonderful care of him. He is a lucky little fella'!

[Anne]

Wes, don't worry about the "Trembling" when he is out, he's just talking! Here is a bit on that from my presentation that is in the breed specific section under the part on behavior.

Trembling/Vibrating
New owners are often frightened when they discover their flyer trembling when being held. This is really NOT a problem, but often ultrasonic communication that is out of human hearing range. Another reason is "bruxing" in which the flyer is grinding it's teeth. This is a natural phenomena in flyers who need to keep their teeth ground down.


Sounds as if you have a new friend! So glad you found each other. Oh, one other piece of information. The reason behind us suggesting ordering the Skylar Syringes is that these syringes have an O-ring rubber tip. The O-rings do not "catch" after a few uses as do the standard syringes with the heavy black square rubber tip. This helps prevent a sudden hard push that overwhelms a little one with too much fluid that can cause them to aspirate. Skylars last a really long time also, several of mine are still in use several months after opening.

[Ellymae]

Wes, don't worry about the "Trembling" when he is out, he's just talking! Here is a bit on that from my presentation that is in the breed specific section under the part on behavior.

Trembling/Vibrating
New owners are often frightened when they discover their flyer trembling when being held. This is really NOT a problem, but often ultrasonic communication that is out of human hearing range. Another reason is "bruxing" in which the flyer is grinding it's teeth. This is a natural phenomena in flyers who need to keep their teeth ground down.


Sounds as if you have a new friend! So glad you found each other. Oh, one other piece of information. The reason behind us suggesting ordering the Skylar Syringes is that these syringes have an O-ring rubber tip. The O-rings do not "catch" after a few uses as do the standard syringes with the heavy black square rubber tip. This helps prevent a sudden hard push that overwhelms a little one with too much fluid that can cause them to aspirate. Skylars last a really long time also, several of mine are still in use several months after opening.

Wes, if you need any of the syringes that Anne mentioned, I have every size available....just let me know. Glad to hear he is hanging in there.

[wb_carpenter]

Wes, if you need any of the syringes that Anne mentioned, I have every size available....just let me know. Glad to hear he is hanging in there.


I have the magic nipple and quite a few syringes so I am good. I have just been giving him a couple drops twice a day of the antibiotics. Havent caused any issues.


I posted in the other forum but figured I'd post here for more views.

He has quite a bit of dried formula on his chin and is a little bit squirmy for me to get it. It dried pretty hard.

Just let it work itself out or try to get it off?

[wb_carpenter]

He also went from 19 grams to 25 grams in a couple days.

Has a noticeably bigger belly now.. is this normal?
How ofter should he be going #2? He doesn't seem to during the day.

I may have to switch to calling him a she.. I'm looking more into that now.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Wes, you need to clean the formula off the babies chin. It will cause milk burn and the hair will fall out.

The large belly concerns me. Can you post a pic. Is the baby bloated? Sometimes FoxValley 32/40 causes bloat.
Bloat is a big problem! Let us know if this is bloat.

[Nancy in New York]

He also went from 19 grams to 25 grams in a couple days.

Has a noticeably bigger belly now.. is this normal?
How ofter should he be going #2? He doesn't seem to during the day.

I may have to switch to calling him a she.. I'm looking more into that now.


I know you probably know this, but the bigger belly is concerning so I have to ask.
You are stimulating him/her, correct?

[wb_carpenter]

I know you probably know this, but the bigger belly is concerning so I have to ask.
You are stimulating him/her, correct?

Warm cotton ball to the genitals.

He did take a larger feeding today(about 2cc per).. and because he's sleeping most of the time maybe once he gets up and moving he will be able to go.

Your thoughts on putting his lower half in some warm water for a couple minutes, Drying him off well and letting him cuddle up to the heating pad?

Not like this...
245853
Less than this but closer
245854

These are the best pictures I can get. I think its just because he was so small i'm noticing the change. Just being protective.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/IMG_5552.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/IMG_5552.jpg.html)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x188/xxturbowesxx/IMG_5553.jpg (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/xxturbowesxx/media/IMG_5553.jpg.html)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Wes, that's an odd looking milk line. Make sure that moves. If it doesn't, yes, I would put his bottom in the warm water to see if it will relax him enough to go. I think 2cc might be too much for now.

How long has he been on the FV?

[Nancy in New York]

Forgot to mention, or perhaps someone already did.
When feeding with the FV, it stays in their systems longer, so
no need to feed as frequently as when on only Esbilac w probiotics, or
Goats Milk Esbilac.

[wb_carpenter]

Wes, that's an odd looking milk line. Make sure that moves. If it doesn't, yes, I would put his bottom in the warm water to see if it will relax him enough to go. I think 2cc might be too much for now.

How long has he been on the FV?

Milk line?

I'll back off the amount. Up till now i have been letting him decide when to stop since he was so underweight. Skipping a meal this afternoon.

Hes been on the FV for about 24 hours now. I have also been mixing the FV with whole milk yogurt for the probiotic effect because of the antibiotics.



Forgot to mention, or perhaps someone already did.
When feeding with the FV, it stays in their systems longer, so
no need to feed as frequently as when on only Esbilac w probiotics, or
Goats Milk Esbilac.

Bump up to 6hrs vs 3hrs now or less?

[Nancy in New York]

Milk line?

I'll back off the amount. Up till now i have been letting him decide when to stop since he was so underweight. Skipping a meal this afternoon.

Hes been on the FV for about 24 hours now. I have also been mixing the FV with whole milk yogurt for the probiotic effect because of the antibiotics.




Bump up to 6hrs vs 3hrs now or less?

No don't hold off for 6 hours. Does this "bloat" go down and the milk line fade
before you feed him again?
Typically we feed when we don't see the milk line, but I think you
would be safe with 4 hours. BUT watch for the milk line to disappear, or
been seen only slightly.
You can never let a squirrel eat what they want, most of them won't stop
on their own, until they bloat.
So he is only on the FV 32/40 with yogurt, correct?

[pixiepoo]

With flyers the milk line is more on one side (left side I believe) and moves more evenly as digested (at least in my experience). For a baby that old every 4 hours is sufficient. For mine I do roughly every 5-6 at that age, but it varies by each squirrel of course. Every 3 hours is too often especially with such a large amount of food. Maybe try every 4. :) the pic is a bit difficult to see but it doesn't really look very bad to me. Just like a bit of overfeeding. But I would bump to 4 hours ;)

[pixiepoo]

Also looks like a little girl to me ;)

[wb_carpenter]

Also looks like a little girl to me ;)


It seems so..

Hopefully she stays as sweet as she is now.. In all my reading it seems that males are a bit more stable.

I was questioning what the milk line is.. After some research figured it out..

She has digested what was posted before and took a monster size poop on my arm.

The dried formula is not coming off so i'm just going to leave it and hope for the best. I already tried soaking in warm water.. This stuff is made of concrete.

[HRT4SQRLS]

She has digested what was posted before and took a monster size poop on my arm.

The dried formula is not coming off so i'm just going to leave it and hope for the best. I already tried soaking in warm water.. This stuff is made of concrete.
That's great news Wes. I'm glad the formula is moving through her system. :grin2 Flyers typically always use the FV 32/40 (with the higher protein .. 32) but the problems this year with the FV32/40 causing bloat and setting up in the GI tract of the little ones makes me a little nervous when they first start on it. If she's moving it through her gut she's good to go but I would still watch to make sure. I guess I'm just over cautious. :tilt

Poor baby... the dried formula will take the hair off and maybe some skin too. I would try to not let any more collect there.
I usually dip a paper towel or whatever in the warm water that I warmed the formula with and rub the chin and mouth after feeding. I wonder if a damp square of fleece left under her chin for a while would soften it up. :dono

[wb_carpenter]

Tried to get the Formula off her chin.. Its hopeless and that stuff is the worst.

How long until I can wean her off of it? She is starting to actually eat her blocks now.

I am getting ready to buy a cage and trying to decide between the critter nation deluxe cage and Henry's house exotic cage.

I like that the critter nation is much bigger. I would take out the divider or modify it so she can have both levels but is it overkill?
http://www.henryspets.com/henrys-house-exotic-pet-cage/
http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Critter-Nation-Animal-Habitat/dp/B001NJ0DAY/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

She's starting to get energetic and it killed me to put her back into her tote and watch her run tiny circles.

Also I foolishly lost the miracle nipple so have to put in another order to henry's pets.. Should I buy the calcium carbonate?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Tried to get the Formula off her chin.. Its hopeless and that stuff is the worst.

How long until I can wean her off of it? She is starting to actually eat her blocks now.

I am getting ready to buy a cage and trying to decide between the critter nation deluxe cage and Henry's house exotic cage.

I like that the critter nation is much bigger. I would take out the divider or modify it so she can have both levels but is it overkill?
http://www.henryspets.com/henrys-house-exotic-pet-cage/
http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Critter-Nation-Animal-Habitat/dp/B001NJ0DAY/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

She's starting to get energetic and it killed me to put her back into her tote and watch her run tiny circles.

Also I foolishly lost the miracle nipple so have to put in another order to henry's pets.. Should I buy the calcium carbonate?
I wouldn't wean her. We give them formula as long as they will take it. Some adults will drink it out of a tiny bowl... some won't. It's the best insurance you have to prevent MBD.

I actually have both of these cages. I have 3 flyers ... 2 CritterNation doubles and 1 Henry's cage. I might buy a third CN for the new guy. Both are good cages. I prefer the CritterNations. I like big cages. :tilt She will love the extra space. You will be buying a lot of accessories and you'll be surprised now fast it fills up. She'll need a Magnus Wheel from attixwoks.com. :poke :grin2 Many flyers love wheels. If you decide on the CN here is a link to a better price.
http://www.ferret.com/item/critter-nation-small-animal-cage-double-unit/650232/
I would google it and SEARCH the net for the best price. The price range for these (same cage) is HUGE. I have seen them from about $170- $350 so I would shop carefully.

I have my CN's setup, one with the center divider, the other without. It just depends on how you want to do it.

I just thought about something, if you need to buy a new Miracle nipple you probably should buy the Miracle Nipple Mini. I didn't think about it before but it's shorter and much better suited for flyers. It is a drop down on the Miracle nipple page at Henry's. It's a little tricky to find, I missed it completely.

You could buy the calcium carbonate to have on hand for later. I hope you won't need it for MBD :poke but flyer peeps do roll the worms in calcium carbonate because they have a bad calcium to phosphate ratio. When she gets a little older she will need to eat meal worms or WaxWorms due to their increased protein needs. :thumbsup