Seizures vs. gagging URGENT [Archive]

catnhat44

10-13-2014, 12:54 PM

Hello

I have a 8-9 week old Eastern Grey named Earl, whom I found on my driveway when he was about 3 weeks old. Since the beginning he has had occasional "episodes" during feeding. I feed him very slowly, using a Miracle Nipple. He was growing nicely, doing all the squirrely things he should. Until last week, when he began to decline. More lethargic, more frequent and longer lasting episodes. I took him to a vet/wildlife rehabber, but he wasn't much help because I didn't have it on video and it didn't happen while we were there. The vet did not suspect MBD.

http://youtu.be/V86bi8B5MwM

He was so lethargic over the weekend, I took him to the emergency vet last night. His bottom teeth were overgrown and had punctured his inner cheek, causing an infection. The teeth were trimmed, Baytril was prescribed, and he had pain meds. I had been giving him calcium (crushed Tums in water) over the weekend before taking him to the vet.

Today he wants to eat but can't because handling him triggers these episodes. Please help. Thanks!

Christine

farrelli

10-13-2014, 12:59 PM

Today is a bad day on TSB. Few people on.

Doesn;t click when breathing, right?

Try applying some molasses to his gums if he won;t lick it off. Sugar and minerals can help seizures.

island rehabber

10-13-2014, 01:08 PM

OK. Are you familiar with something called 'feeding seizures'? It is when a normal nursing baby squirrel will go into a kind of rigid trance, followed by sucking motions without the syringe even being in their mouths. Some babies will keep it up for minutes at a time.....others just lapse into it during the feeding session and a quick shake of the syringe, or a tap on their head, will stop it.

Earl looks very dehydrated. When he does this seizing motion, do you stop feeding him? I am wondering if he is not getting enough hydration and that is where the lethargy is coming from. Here's my suggestion:

Don't handle him to feed him. If he's in a cage, feed hium through the bars for a few days -- tilt the syringe UP toward him, between the bars, and let him eat at his own pace. He may fall into the feeding seizure that way, too (my Otto does this, and he is 11 weeks old), but a wiggle of the syringe or tap on the head should stop it. In other words, what I am saying is ignore the 'seizures' and keep going until he has taken enough nourishment.
Don't let your formula be too hot -- this sometimes triggers this as well.

Hope this helps!

catnhat44

10-13-2014, 01:51 PM

Hello! The seizures do not stop with tapping his nose or blowing in his face. Yes, I stop because I don't want him to aspirate. He does the head arching and rigid arms thing, which doesn't look like the "guppy mouth" things I've seen described as feeding seizures. I can't feed him through the bars because he stays curled in a ball unless I wake him. I am concerned about dehydration as well, and may take him for SQ fluids if I can't get him to take PO

QUOTE=island rehabber;1051483][FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#006400]OK. Are you familiar with something called 'feeding seizures'? It is when a normal nursing baby squirrel will go into a kind of rigid trance, followed by sucking motions without the syringe even being in their mouths. Some babies will keep it up for minutes at a time.....others just lapse into it during the feeding session and a quick shake of the syringe, or a tap on their head, will stop it.

Earl looks very dehydrated. When he does this seizing motion, do you stop feeding him? I am wondering if he is not getting enough hydration and that is where the lethargy is coming from. Here's my suggestion:

Don't handle him to feed him. If he's in a cage, feed hium through the bars for a few days -- tilt the syringe UP toward him, between the bars, and let him eat at his own pace. He may fall into the feeding seizure that way, too (my Otto does this, and he is 11 weeks old), but a wiggle of the syringe or tap on the head should stop it. In other words, what I am saying is ignore the 'seizures'

Nancy in New York

10-13-2014, 02:04 PM

What have you been feeding him?
What is the amount that you feed him, and how often?
Do you have a weight on him?
Did you hydrate between feedings?

On the average day, before he started these episodes, how much did he eat in total?

I know lots of questions, but they are important.

IF you used powdered formula, you are mixing it with WATER, correct?

He is SO tiny for a squirrel his age.

catnhat44

10-13-2014, 02:46 PM

Yes, mixing with water. Esbilac, water, whipping cream. He was taking 6-8 ml every 5-6 hours and was eating rodent block, fruits, veggies. His weight on 10/6 was 130 gems, but he dropped to 123 grams on Saturday. In a day, he would have formula q5-6 hours from 5 am until 10-11 pm. He was eating well, and was active.

Mommaluvy

10-13-2014, 02:55 PM

Ditto to NINY Question's. They are important.

Also.. I think IR is right.. BUT... just some things to think about.

When did he start the baytril?

Is his cheek where he was punctured swollen? Could he be "sucking" on that?

I ask about the Baytril because while this does look like a feeding seizure guppy thing.. I am wondering about silent Pneumonia. The baytril would work for that so make sure he gets his FULL COURSE. Like I said it does looking like the feeding seizure but you said Handling makes it worse.

My guy had silent Pneumonia.. and the only way I even knew was he had weird head spams. ONLY WHEN HANDLED http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?46909-Odd-behavior-Spasm&highlight=head+spasm ( has the video )

The more experienced here said they heard congestion. But slight lethargy, refusing to eat the full feeding, and this weird spasm were my only clues. I never heard the congestion.. either way.. Meds were started and then the vet gave me baytril and he recovered and was released.

So your guy is having some " Spasm", not eating much and lethargic.. Wondering if handling him makes his heart rate go up causing him to gasp for air due to labored breathing. JUST AN IDEA.. I am a total squirrel newby.. either way.. glad he is on the baytril.

catnhat44

10-13-2014, 03:21 PM

Mommaluvy

10-13-2014, 03:42 PM

The Baytril was just started last night. He was also given some pain Meds. I don't hear any congestion, but mentioned pneumonia to the vet. She said the baytril would cover both the wound and pneumonia.

Not saying it is Pneumonia.. But .. I saw improvement in my guy in 2-3 doses. Hope you see the same.

Nancy in New York

10-13-2014, 04:42 PM

I just want to do a little recap, just to get this straight myself.

You have had him for roughly 6 weeks, and you estimate his age at 8-9 weeks.
You were feeding him Esbilac with probiotics from the beginning, 6 weeks ago?
His teeth needed to be trimmed yesterday (by a vet) due to overgrowth and he has
a puncture wound on his cheek from the teeth. He is on Baytril for the infection in his cheek.
Did the vet say if the teeth were also misaligned? I'm not sure why it would puncture his cheek and
not the roof of his mouth, unless they are misaligned.

He has lost 7 grams in 6 days and is now down to 123 grams.

Prior to these episodes he was eating 6-8 ml every 5-6 hours, correct? (That would be approximately 30-40 mls daily)
And now what is his formula intake for the day?

If his main source of food is still the formula, this amount has to increase. For a squirrel this age to only weigh 123 grams, he is severely malnourished.

I am NOT saying this is your fault, we just need to find a way to correct this, as I understand that you do NOT want to feed him while he is in a feeding trance/seizure. BUT we need to get hydration, and calories into him. So let's figure Would you be willing to have him looked at by a trusted wild life rehabber if we could find one, and maybe even left there for him to stabilize. I think he needs to be seen by someone that has raised squirrels. I'm not even sure we could find anyone, but he cannot go on like this.

stepnstone

10-13-2014, 05:57 PM

I agree with Nancy he needs experienced hands/eyes on him,
he'll just continue to deteriorate the way he's going. :(

Do you have him on heat?

catnhat44

10-13-2014, 08:00 PM

You have had him for roughly 6 weeks, and you estimate his age at 8-9 weeks. Yes
You were feeding him Esbilac with probiotics from the beginning, 6 weeks ago? Yes
His teeth needed to be trimmed yesterday (by a vet) due to overgrowth and he has
a puncture wound on his cheek from the teeth. He is on Baytril for the infection in his cheek.
Did the vet say if the teeth were also misaligned? I'm not sure why it would puncture his cheek and
not the roof of his mouth, unless they are misaligned. Yes, I can see they are misaligned.

He has lost 7 grams in 6 days and is now down to 123 grams.

Prior to these episodes he was eating 6-8 ml every 5-6 hours, correct? (That would be approximately 30-40 mls daily)
And now what is his formula intake for the day? He has not taken much formula because of the seizures.

If his main source of food is still the formula, this amount has to increase. For a squirrel this age to only weigh 123 grams, he is severely malnourished. Prior to these episodes, he ate rodent block, fruits/veggies. He had been growing nicely, and weighed 130 grams this past Monday. He has lost weight since then due to the seizures.

I am NOT saying this is your fault, we just need to find a way to correct this, as I understand that you do NOT want to feed him while he is in a feeding trance/seizure. BUT we need to get hydration, and calories into him. So let's figure Would you be willing to have him looked at by a trusted wild life rehabber if we could find one, and maybe even left there for him to stabilize. I think he needs to be seen by someone that has raised squirrels. I'm not even sure we could find anyone, but he cannot go on like this.[/B][/I][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Since I wrote this original post, I have had a telephone conversation with a licensed rehabber/veterinarian who does squirrels. She said that there is no such thing as a "feeding seizure", and that the cause is either metabolic or neurologic. He was found on my driveway, which means that he fell from a tree for some reason. I always wondered how he could fall from such a height and not sustain a head injury. This woman also told me that if he sustained an injury to his jaw when he fell (even if it wasn't broken), his teeth can come in misaligned (which they have). She also suggested I give him some simple syrup on a q-tip, followed by pedialyte. I did both these things, and he perked up. Awhile later I was able to give him some formula, and some avocado which he ate voraciously. I will give him his Baytril this evening as ordered, and will continue the pedialyte. I have known since I started this journey with him that he may have something wrong with him, and that he may not ever be able to live independently in the wild. When I had taken him to see a different wildlife vet in Athens, GA he was given a clean bill of health (this was two weeks ago). The vet said that yes, he was small but he was not malnourished at that time. He was probably the runt of his litter. I want to do the best thing for this little guy. I am not trying to keep him as a pet, my intention was always to raise him and release him.

Nancy in New York

10-13-2014, 10:56 PM

Since I wrote this original post, I have had a telephone conversation with a licensed rehabber/veterinarian who does squirrels. She said that there is no such thing as a "feeding seizure", and that the cause is either metabolic or neurologic. He was found on my driveway, which means that he fell from a tree for some reason. I always wondered how he could fall from such a height and not sustain a head injury. This woman also told me that if he sustained an injury to his jaw when he fell (even if it wasn't broken), his teeth can come in misaligned (which they have). She also suggested I give him some simple syrup on a q-tip, followed by pedialyte. I did both these things, and he perked up. Awhile later I was able to give him some formula, and some avocado which he ate voraciously. I will give him his Baytril this evening as ordered, and will continue the pedialyte. I have known since I started this journey with him that he may have something wrong with him, and that he may not ever be able to live independently in the wild. When I had taken him to see a different wildlife vet in Athens, GA he was given a clean bill of health (this was two weeks ago). The vet said that yes, he was small but he was not malnourished at that time. He was probably the runt of his litter. I want to do the best thing for this little guy. I am not trying to keep him as a pet, my intention was always to raise him and release him.

Thank you for your reply.
Perhaps feeding "seizure" is the wrong term, but I have seen the "guppy mouthed" little squirrels numerous times, and can attest that it does happen. Some outgrow it quickly while others can take longer. I am not exactly sure that yours is doing that. Does this rehabber/vet think this is seizure activity? Have you noticed this behavior while he is just sleeping, or is it only when you go to feed?
I would suspect that he has had head trauma if he was on your driveway, at that age a fall could be the only reasonable possibility. Yes, misaligned teeth are also an indication of a fall, (or genetics) as are seizures as they grow.
I'm glad that he responded to the syrup and that you were able to get some formula into him. When squirrels have seizures it depletes the blood sugar, so when giving supplemental sugar, they typically respond.

As these little ones grow, sometimes they can develop seizures from falls that they took weeks ago. The thought is that when the brain grows it can put pressure on it thus causing seizures. Sometimes these disappear after time, and sometimes they get worse. There really is no way of telling, how a little one will develop. You just have to observe and hope for the best, that they don't get worse.

Watch the teeth issue. If these stay misaligned, he will most likely not be able to be released since he won't be able to keep them short. He is still young, and perhaps with regular clippings they will straighten themselves out. Did the vet that trimmed the teeth want to see him again?

Mommaluvy

10-13-2014, 11:19 PM

It was probably the use of the word Seizure . Technically there is nothing called a feeding seizure and the phenomenon has many names .. The one i like is called Feeding trance. Some call it guppy mouth. What ever its nane us .. Its well documented and there are hundreds of videos . Perhaps do a search here or on google.

I am not going to tell you that a licensed rehabber does not know their stuff . As i am new to the squirrel world like you. But .. I would ask here for people with neuro squirrels to take a look at your video. I have no experiance with neuro squirrels, but in the months i have read here this one behavior is not the same as the classic signs i have read about .
And NINY and IR have had many years experiance .. They woulda picked up on that.

But he could be neuro.. It just .. Usually when the videos roll in they pick up on thay right off the bat.

Again i am new new new .

But .. I still think he has pnumonia or this is releted to his mouth puncture.

I would have to dig up my records .. But 130 grams at 9 weeks sounds close to what some of mine weighed. I have weird squirrels though :) tiny guys. THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY YOUR GUESSING HIM A WEEK OLDER. Than he really is.

So .. Bear with me and go back to the beginning... What did he look like when you found him ? Any pictures? Did he have any fuzz or was he pink ? How long after you had him did his eyes open?

I know at first this seems over whelming .. But TSB really does want to help you help your little One.

I still think your gunna see improvement .

Dehydration can be a vicious cycle . You wiuld think they would drink . But they dont. Which leads to more dehydration etc. Keep up the good work .

Nancy in New York

10-13-2014, 11:53 PM

Thinking about your little one again, the important question is, do you see him display this seizure/gagging when he is just resting, or playing, or just alone in his cage.
Does this only occur when you are feeding, or about to feed?

Hydration is key to so many things so keep up the hydration. Do Pedialyte for no more than 24 hours then go to just sugar water, or plain water.

He looks tiny to me. However, my last group of 4 were over 200 grams each when they opened their eyes, but that is not typical either. :)

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 01:35 AM

I have had a half dozen babies this summer who all did exactly what is in that video. It was totally feeding related and drove me out of my mind. Feeding took forever every session and it was a tense time not relaxing as it should be. I got through it by gentle pressure on the plunger onto the back of the tongue. They must eat for nutrition and hydration. I sort of began to ignore the trance and feed right through it. They would swallow it as long as i went slowly. They were just flapping their traps while i dripped formula in. It got the job done and nobody aspirated or starved. I also didn't toss anyone out a window in frustration. That was a very real possibility once i figured out it wasnt dangerous...:rofl4
i may have a video of one of mine doing it. Wrapping them in fleece like a burrito also helped. I would rub and jostle them during feedings. I do not envy you, but it really looks just like my babies.

island rehabber

10-14-2014, 07:35 AM

All I can say to the rehabber who says there is no such thing as a feeding seizure, or guppy mouth, or feeding trance is that she has NOT done a lot of baby squirrels. 200 and counting here, and at least 25 of those were major seizing-guppy-trancers! Some of them were so bad I will remember their names forever. :grin3

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 09:36 AM

Here are two short clips of mine who would go on long enough that I carried him outside to show my husband and back in and sat down before I could annoy him out of it. No feeding trances my fanny!
http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Gayle_Molloy/media/100_0738_zps55f6dee0.mp4.html?sort=3&o=16
http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/Gayle_Molloy/media/100_0737_zpsa15794cf.mp4.html?sort=3&o=18

pappy1264

10-14-2014, 09:39 AM

Just catching up. He is very dehydrated, give sub-q fluids be given first off? The three I have were very emaciated when they came in. Went through this with one of them, she actually had pneumonia, as well. It is very frustrating and scary. He is starving. When he does this, how long is it typically lasting? My little girl sometimes would hold this stance for well over a minute. Feeding the three of them would take me over an hour! But he needs to get the food into him. Can you try to swaddle him, keeping his arms sort of gripped to his body? Sometimes I have found them not being able to 'knead' with their paws helps to keep them from getting tranced out.

catnhat44

10-14-2014, 04:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c7Scbnjw7k

This video was taken this afternoon. He has perked up quite a bit but continues to have the episodes. In this video, you can see how much he wants to eat the banana, but can't. I have watched the "guppy mouth" videos, and don't think that's what's going on for him. His arms go rigid, he clasps his paws like he is praying, and his head bobs up and down, sometimes forcefully. If I try to put something in his mouth while this is happening, he pushes it away. His eyes remain open while this happens, and he sometimes cries out.
Since yesterday, I've hydrated him with pedialyte and also have managed to get some formula I to him. He is urinating and defecating. Someone asked whether these ever occur without feeding. My answer is not at first, but they do now.

TubeDriver

10-14-2014, 05:21 PM

If they occur without feeding, I think they are a seizure but I am no baby expert. He still looks spiky so keep hydrating. Peeing and pooling are good. Use Pedialyte for 24 hours MAXIMUM and then switch back to regular water. If you pinch the skin of his neck, does it tent and take a while to settle down? If so, he is still dehydrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c7Scbnjw7k

This video was taken this afternoon. He has perked up quite a bit but continues to have the episodes. In this video, you can see how much he wants to eat the banana, but can't. I have watched the "guppy mouth" videos, and don't think that's what's going on for him. His arms go rigid, he clasps his paws like he is praying, and his head bobs up and down, sometimes forcefully. If I try to put something in his mouth while this is happening, he pushes it away. His eyes remain open while this happens, and he sometimes cries out.
Since yesterday, I've hydrated him with pedialyte and also have managed to get some formula I to him. He is urinating and defecating. Someone asked whether these ever occur without feeding. My answer is not at first, but they do now.

HRT4SQRLS

10-14-2014, 05:50 PM

catnhat44
I'm very sorry that your baby isn't doing well. :grouphug I just reread this thread.
IMO, this video of your baby looks like neurological issues. It's odd to me that he was developing normally and then started to decline. I was curious if there are any trees near your driveway? Of course, he could have fallen from an overhanging tree or he could have been dropped by a predator. Any fall from a tree or the 'sky' onto a driveway certainly could have caused head trauma.

As was mentioned earlier, neurological damage doesn't always present itself immediately. Sometimes it can manifest later as the head grows. If this is what is presenting here, I'm afraid the prognosis might not be great. I'm curious, can your vet X-ray the baby to see if the baby had a skull fracture?

My other though was regarding the injury in the mouth that was infected. The vet prescribed Baytril for the ?pneumonia/wound. Baytril is a great drug for pneumonia but is not a good drug for wounds of the head/neck/mouth area. Many organisms of the mouth are resistant to the quinolone drugs like Baytril. Is it possible that you or the vet can re-examine the mouth wound? Does it look better? Does it look worse? Is it tender? Does the baby show indications of pain when touched around the head? I would definitely want to make sure the wound isn't getting worse. An infection in the mouth can be dangerously close to the brain and infections can be quite aggressive. I would rule this out as a cause.

If the wound looks worse, the vet might want to prescribe Clavamox. I don't want to tell your vet what to do but just as an FYI, Clavamox has been used successfully with wounds in squirrels (including the mouth).
I sure hope he starts improving soon. The video looks very sad. :(

Mommaluvy

10-14-2014, 05:54 PM

Wow .. I see what you mean. It resembles guppy.. And the clasping of hands resembles kneading ... Which is kinda normal...but this behavior is concerning.

Did this happen after the tooth clipping? Wonder if a sharp edge cut his tongue? I mean it had to be done but...
It still looks mouth related to me.. The untrained eye. :)

I do remember another person recently asking about a food induced sezuire... I'll go search for that thread.

Does anyone else think he has kitten fur ?

Do you have any pictures of when he was found? He looks younger to me. Won't change much.. But might be more comforted about his weight.

Jus it read Hrts post ( I swear it was not there a minute ago ) ... I think she is right about the mouth thing..

Mommaluvy

10-14-2014, 06:29 PM

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?45853-Anyone-else-ever-seen-Food-Seizures-in-a-squirrel&highlight=

Maybe pm duckman and ask him about how his turned out? And if it resembled yours..

Did this start after the meds?

I am just trying to get as much ruled out as you can . I would hate for it to have neuro issues.

But does anyone else think he has kitten fur? I'll post what WMB says about it.. I am wondering if it could be early metabolic bone disease . It's something you might try ..

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 07:58 PM

You are right it isn't like what I posted of the guppy mouth. Likely it is neurological. Perhaps from a fall as a tiny guy that is just showing up now. Is there any chance that you have prednisone or can get some?

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 08:01 PM

I texted Duckman to see if he could look at the thread.

Mommaluvy

10-14-2014, 08:06 PM

I may have some prednisone she could have .. let me look.

What do you think about the little ones hair? Is that kitten fur?

Duckman

10-14-2014, 08:18 PM

Mommaluvy

10-14-2014, 08:40 PM

He is already on cipro for a mouth wound.

He is not mine.. but its in one of the original posts. I thought possible pneumonia too. but he is still doing it after a few doses,, but if you think its bad that could be why.

A vet has seen him and gave her the baytril and the dosage. He reminded me of my Pip when he had those weird head spasms.

Either way.. I have roids if she needs them.

Spanky

10-14-2014, 08:42 PM

I am an about an hour from Hoschton.

I have SMZ/TMP... (and Amoxitabs, Clintabs and Keflex). I can probably get Cipro in the morning from my vet... if there is time?

Prednisone too...

I cannot help with the oxygen.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 08:44 PM

Do you have a vaporizer?

Mommaluvy

10-14-2014, 08:46 PM

She also said that he is doing it now even when not eating.

Duckman

10-14-2014, 08:47 PM

The vet may be the only one with oxygen. My vet uses SMZ-TMP, but it takes a while to build up. Hopefully it isn't too late for that. Can anyone else chime in on what Antibiotics are best for Pneumonia? I don't think the Cipro is very strong personally.

Spanky

10-14-2014, 08:49 PM

Let me clarify... I think I could whatever from my vet.. I am willing to see if he'll call it in tonight if things are that urgent.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 08:52 PM

In general baytril is what we all use, Stacking it with smz/tmp along with prednisone may be the way to go for such a serious respiratory issue.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 08:53 PM

Let me clarify... I think I could whatever from my vet.. I am willing to see if he'll call it in tonight if things are that urgent.

This is an awesome offer~!!!

catnhat44

10-14-2014, 08:57 PM

245221

For those of you who asked for an earlier photo of Earl, here he is a few minutes after I first found him on September 3rd. His eyes were closed, and did not open for about 2 1/2 weeks. He weighed 47 grams on the day I found him.

Interestingly, he had a good afternoon after the other video I posted with the banana. He perked up and was running about, climbing up my arm, etc. You keep mentioning spikey..I'm not sure what that means. He was kinda dirty because he gets banana all over him when he eats it. I did wash him off as best I could this afternoon (washcloth with warm water and a drop of 7th Generation dish soap).

I just fed him at around 8:30, and he took 9 mls of formula without any episode at all. Gave him his Baytril. His cheek looks less swollen.

For the person who asked whether the tooth trimming could have caused this, the answer is no. He has been having these episodes since I found him. And yes, there are 50 foot oaks around, and one tree has a squirrel nest in it about 30 feet up. It's close to where I found him, so perhaps that was his nest.

I know that closed head trauma may not bode well for his future. I knew that going into this. I don't want him to suffer, and really hate when he has long episodes. If any of you are medical people, I'll say that at the beginning the seizures were sorter in duration and he would continue eating. Now, he generally goes to sleep. I don't know if predisone will work at this point..and I live in the Atlanta suburbs. I may take him to a different vet on Thursday, depending on how he's doing.

Duckman

10-14-2014, 08:58 PM

Do you have a vaporizer?

Do not use a vaporizer! No more fluid in the lungs. Even a nebulizer (put him in a tub with the hose in to at least raise the air pressure inside and help him breathe easier), would help him over nothing, if it is available.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 09:04 PM

If I could give pred, I would. No matter what it isn't going to hurt. It helps respiratory and neuro issues.

catnhat44

10-14-2014, 09:20 PM

Ok, you are going to have to work fast. He has Pneumonia. That gasping and the lethargy is the clue. I have had 2 get this same thing this year, and we didn't catch it in time until we did an autopsy. He is going to need to be on oxygen or an oxygen concentrator. He is also going to need antibiotics. Anyone close that can help?

He really isn't gasping. And he is no longer lethargic. He has had three doses of Baytril so far. As I wrote earlier, he really perked up after intensive pedialyte and some simple syrup yesterday. Earlier today he had several episodes, but had a feeding at around 8:30, took 9 ml of formula without any problem.

I am going to go get my pediatric stethoscope and have a listen.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 09:22 PM

Do you have any more baby pics? Maybe one from the other side and one from the front? Was his nose bloody when you found him?

catnhat44

10-14-2014, 09:35 PM

No, all the photos from that day are basically the same. His nose was not bloody, and he did not appear to be injured. He was cold, from being on the driveway for approximately an hour (I'd been out walking the dogs an hour before and he wasn't there).

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 09:36 PM

Can you get prednisone?

catnhat44

10-14-2014, 09:39 PM

If you tell me how much to get, I can write a prescription.

SammysMom

10-14-2014, 09:41 PM

I will pm dilution and dosing info.

TubeDriver

10-14-2014, 09:42 PM

He really isn't gasping. And he is no longer lethargic. He has had three doses of Baytril so far. As I wrote earlier, he really perked up after intensive pedialyte and some simple syrup yesterday. Earlier today he had several episodes, but had a feeding at around 8:30, took 9 ml of formula without any problem.

I am going to go get my pediatric stethoscope and have a listen.

The Baytril might be doing its magic? I am no expert but as far as I know, Baytril is great stuff for pneumonia (not so good with tissue injuries and abscess type infections). Baytril also works fast, usually offering significant relief in 2 days or so.

I would keep him on the Baytril. Adding a steroid might be a good thing, it would help with both airway inflammation and could help if there are any neuro issues.

By "spikey" looking, I meant his hair is standing up, spiked. This can be one sign of dehydration.

He looks to be in extreme distress :(, I hope you can save him.