Squirrel showing possible signs of MBD?

[MRobinson0828]

I've had Lali for about a month now, she is still drinking formula 2x daily (fox mountain) and here and there she will nibble on one of Henrys squirrel blocks. She is probably only about 9 weeks (estimated by the fact that when I got her she had her eyes opened but no bushy tail yet). I feed her healthy fruits and vegetables (collard greens are a favorite around here). She also loves yogurt and cheese.

Shes been such a joy to have around. Shes so funny and cute, my kids think shes the greatest. My 12 year old is the only one allowed to handle her because I'm worried the little ones may be too rough. She's seemed in perfect health until today. She was perfectly fine, and then the next minute she started squealing a little and just started shaking. She seems weak, especially in her back legs and her left front. I don't understand how anything could have happened so fast. She is in a cage right next to me, and theres no way she could have injured herself without me noticing. I've tried to read everything I possibly can about squirrels, tried to feed her right and take good care of her. I take her outside when its nice out so she can enjoy the sunshine. I plan on slowly letting her go come spring time because she will still be nursing until it gets too cold outside.

I've bonded so much with her and I don't know what I would do if something were to happen to her. Its hard to explain exactly how she's acting, but everything I've read seems to point to her having MBD. I just don't understand how its possible if she's still nursing and eating foods high in calcium. I took her outside earlier and took a video, I wasn't very concerned with her taking off in her condition so she wasnt in a cage. If anybody has any advice for me or any idea please let me know. You can't see the weakness too much in the video but you can see the trembling pretty well and how hard it was for her to stand up. I also crushed up about a quarter of a tums when I first noticed it and she took it in a syringe with no problem. Her teeth are still smaller since she is so young. Sorry, I feel like I'm rambling but I'm so worried and just trying to give all the information I can.

I guess my main fear is could she still have MBD even with her still nursing?

[MRobinson0828]

My apologies, I couldn't figure out how to upload a video. Also, you can hear my one year old "talking" quite a bit in the background lol

http://vid1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag415/mrobinson0828/20140930_160534_zps34b7fcd4.mp4

[stepnstone]

She don't look well and she does exhibit some symptoms of mbd,
I can not say she do or don't have mbd. Starting the mbd protocol will
not harm her if it isn't but could be very beneficial to get started on it
right away if it is.
Can you explain exactly how much formula and what she eats daily.
I am suspicious of formula only 2 x a day and only "here and there
she will nibble on one of Henrys squirrel blocks." Formula and or block
are the key elements to a squirrels nutrition and the key elements in
protection against mbd.

[Nancy in New York]

What is Fox Mountain formula?

[MRobinson0828]

I read the protocol and started it, I gave her tums when it first happened and also just a few minutes ago. She eats about 12 cc's of formula in the morning and in the evening. Sometimes more if she will take it but usually no more than 12 cc. She was drinking formula more than that, but thats the only times she will take it anymore. I rarely give her any nuts of any kind (maybe every other day) and when I do I usually try to give her almonds or pecans. She will eat any kinds of fruits or vegetables, but I usually have a stash of fresh greens that we eat so I give her that. My toddler also loves pineapple and the little oranges so we usually have those on hand that I feed to the squirrel too. I also give her cabbage and broccoli occasionally when we have it. She still eats yogurt at least once a day and I give her a little piece of cheese once a day to every other day.

I'm sorry, I meant Fox Valley Day One formula. I'm a little frazzled today.

[Nancy in New York]

Please do not take offense. Could she possibly been dropped, kicked, or stepped on by one of the children?
I'm only asking because we see this often when children are allowed to handle and interact with wild life.
One tiny bite may scare them, and they will drop the squirrel, then realize it was really nothing.
Personally, I wouldn't have kids around anything that tiny, as accidents can so easily happen, and they
may be too afraid to admit to something.
Outside of a fall or trauma, the only thing that comes on this suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, is MBD.

Also never take the squirrel out without a cage, again, some of the stories we see on the board would horrify you.
They can also overheat in 10 minutes, no direct sun either, they are fine in the shade.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?17785-WARNING!-Squirrels-Can-Overheat-in-Summer!
Do you have any other animals in the house?

[Mommaluvy]

Does she have kitten fur? Is that what they mean by kitten fur?
Poor baby. I would do the protocol.

[MRobinson0828]

My youngest two are not allowed to handle her at all. My oldest is 12 and is allowed to handle her as long as I'm around. He doesn't touch her without asking, or feed her anything. We don't let her run around the house alone. Basically, If she's not within a foot or so of me she's in her cage.

I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to take her outside :(. She's usually in a rabbit hutch that's usually in the shade and only on days when it's pleasantly warm for about half an hour while I clean her inside cage. I would rather not have her running around inside while I'm distracted. I did take her out today, hoping it would make her feel a little better.

Oh goodness. I've read so much about proper diet, proper care, hours spent reading others posts and I still feel like I've done everything wrong. :( Thank you for taking the time to read and helping me

[MRobinson0828]

Oh, And I do have dogs that also are not allowed anywhere near her. Not even her cage. My male dog stares at her for forever but he knows not to get within 5 feet and the are put in kennels or outside when she comes out to play. They are big dogs and a lot of dogs like to chase squirrels. I'm not taking any chances and she needs the fear for when she's released.

She does feel soft like a kitten. I sure do love her and her soft fur. :Love_Icon I've started the protocol. I'm praying that I'll see a bit of a change for the better soon. I've been giving her 200 mg every 6 hours so far.

[island rehabber]

Mrobinson, her diet does not sound bad at all and I truly wonder if this is MBD or something else. Can you take her and examine her very closely, moving her limbs one by one in several directions, pressing gently on her sides and back to see if she injured herself? They can hurt themselves leaping around -- they don't need kids or dogs to help them. She may be weaning rather early from the Fox Valley but I always have one or two like that in my rehab gang every season and no one has ever developed MBD because of it. Let's follow the injury angle and see if she has any sore spots.

[Nancy in New York]

My youngest two are not allowed to handle her at all. My oldest is 12 and is allowed to handle her as long as I'm around. He doesn't touch her without asking, or feed her anything. We don't let her run around the house alone. Basically, If she's not within a foot or so of me she's in her cage.

I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to take her outside :(. She's usually in a rabbit hutch that's usually in the shade and only on days when it's pleasantly warm for about half an hour while I clean her inside cage. I would rather not have her running around inside while I'm distracted. I did take her out today, hoping it would make her feel a little better.

Oh goodness. I've read so much about proper diet, proper care, hours spent reading others posts and I still feel like I've done everything wrong. :( Thank you for taking the time to read and helping me

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't take her out. I should have said without a cage, but I see that she is usually in a cage.
You really are doing everything fine, really. She may have just done something to herself. Now we just need to see where exactly she is having the problem.
This little girl is very lucky to have found her way to YOU! :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Oh, And I do have dogs that also are not allowed anywhere near her. Not even her cage. My male dog stares at her for forever but he knows not to get within 5 feet and the are put in kennels or outside when she comes out to play. They are big dogs and a lot of dogs like to chase squirrels. I'm not taking any chances and she needs the fear for when she's released.

She does feel soft like a kitten. I sure do love her and her soft fur. :Love_Icon I've started the protocol. I'm praying that I'll see a bit of a change for the better soon. I've been giving her 200 mg every 6 hours so far.

As island rehabber said, I agree the protocol can be started like you're doing, but I am not convinced this is MBD either.
Does she seem in any sort of pain?

[czarina]

Her breathing seemed rapid. Could she have pneumonia?

Also, again, please do not be offened, but is it possible one of the small children might have given her something through the cage bars she wasn't susposed to have.
I only ask this, cause I'm a mom.

It would seem really odd for it to be MBD with the formula being consumed, that is why I am thinking something bacterial.
Are your dogs up to date on their shots?
I am just throwing out ideas here, trying to help, not to offend you.

[Nancy in New York]

I just went to view the video again, and I'm just seeing a music note, and nothing else. :dono

[pixiepoo]

That doesn't look like MBD to me but as others suggested it isn't impossible for that to be the cause (but treatment won't hurt). Given the diet and her age, I just feel like it is unlikely and that an injury or other problem may be causing her issues. Please keep us updated. I hope she improves.

[farrelli]

Just in case it's necessary, do you have any antibiotics? Cipro and Baytril are great and we can dose for you.

And Naycy is right, never outside if not in a cage.

[SammysMom]

Her back looks funny to me. Like it doesn't straighten out or something. Maybe she jumped and hurt her back?

[czarina]

MRobinson, I know you are worried sick about your little one. At this point watch her very closely,( I already know you are, it is very evident from your posts that you love her very much, and have been providing excellant care for her).

Again, I am just going to throw out some suggestions. Things you might want to gather, in case you need them.

First, I would put her heating pad back, half under her cage, where she can get to it if needed.(but not where she can chew it, or the cord). Heat can be very soothing and helpful to an ill squirrel.

Next, I would see what antibiotics you can get your hands on. One pill is usually enough for a whole week of dosing. (We will dose it for you, if needed). If you don't have any antibiotics, call around to family and friends to see what you can find.( remember, we don't know what is wrong yet, so I am just trying to cover all bases here)

Next, I would do the same thing, but this time gather up pain medicines. These are what you might need and are safe for squirrels, and again, if needed, we will dose the meds for you.
#1. Infant Advil drops
#2 Meloxicam or Metacam (it is the same)
#3Tramadol (but not Ultracet because it has acetaminophen in it, which squirrels can't take)
#4 Prednisone

Okay, now it is watch and see. Observe her very closely. Pay attention to whether she eats and drinks, watch her urine and poop output.
Watch if she is favoring any part of her body.( they can hurt themselves just while at play, and I am kind of wondering if she has a head injury)
Watch if she is lethargic or sleeping more than normal.

Maybe look around your house and see if maybe she chewed on a house plant, or bottle of household cleaner, anything she shouldn't have. (They are excellent at getting into things they shouldn't have)

Check electrical cords, could she have chewed one and gotten shocked?

There is always someone here that can help you.
If others have suggestions, they will chime in.
I will keep you both in my prayers tonight.

Good luck with your precious little one.:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Ic on:grouphug:grouphug:Love_Icon

[RobinTN]

I just watched the video & noticed how she was holding her ears pinned back. Has she been holding them back like that since her behavior changed? I may be wrong, as I'm still a :newb myself, but I think I remember reading that holding the ears pinned back can be indicative of pain. Does anyone here know if that's correct?:thinking

I believe Czarina listed some things to round up 'just in case'.... I know this was just an oversight, but it's VERY important for you to also have a scale so you can get her weight in grams. All those medicines need a weight to dose. WalMart has several models bt $10-$20 in the kitchen aids department, and make sure to get one that will give you a weight in grams.:thumbsup

Keep us posted on how she's doing, and if there's anything that you think of or notice that makes you say "Hmmm... I wonder if she could've...?" take note of it & don't be afraid to ask. You know her and her situation, environment, etc. best, so pay close attention to anything that may cause you to have a 'gut reaction'. A lot of people write those feelings off as silly or illogical, but my personal feeling is that people should learn to pay more attention to their instincts:highfive

And BTW, :Love_IconLali:Love_Icon is precious!

[Mommaluvy]

My dog will donate a tramadol
And i can mail you a cipro (fish flox) .
3-5 days in the mail. Just pm me your address.

[island rehabber]

I played the video 4 times. I truly think she injured herself -- lower back or even her hip, because she is not righting herself on her haunches although she's trying to.....and her leap up to your (knee?) was very shaky. See if any of the pain meds help her to move more normally, and keep us posted!

[MRobinson0828]

Ok everyone, sorry it took me so long to update. It's been such a hectic day. She seems to be doing better today, more like her normal active self but still not quite there. She is still shaky and seems slightly weak but she's eating her normal food and she's trying to climb a little bit. I put her in a smaller cage for the time being because I'm worried that she may hurt herself in the larger one because (poor little baby) she was trying to climb like normal yesterday. She does seem to be in pain, a few people were asking about that. But I can't find any particular place that seems to hurt more than the others. She doesn't want to be held though, maybe because she's sore?

One thing that did worry me, when I took her out to feed her and give her the calcium supplement this morning, she bit me. Really bit me. She's nibbled on me often, I usually try to discourage it by putting her in her cage or saying no like I do with my dogs (and kids lol) and that usually stops it. But, as odd as this sounds, I don't think she did it on purpose. Meaning, I don't think she was trying to hurt me. It was almost like she was trying to steady herself? I'm not sure how to explain it. Basically after she finished eating, (she was shaking pretty bad through most of it) she just bit down, and couldn't seem to let go she was shaking so bad. I put her in the cage as gently as I could, but also quickly because I was bleeding pretty bad and didn't want her to swallow any. Once her feet touched the ground she let go and lay down like she did in the video. I can only assume that I must have hurt her somehow or that she had a vertigo spell? I'm not sure what to think. I couldn't possibly be upset about it when its obvious that she's feeling so poor. Is it possible she could have any kind of neurological problem that is only now beginning to show?

So I have some baby advil, and two separate kinds of antibiotics. Nitrofuratoin 50mg and Sulfamethoxazole-trimethoprim 800/160mg. Are either of these safe for her? My mama also has tramadol 50mg, assuming its the same for humans and animals. She weighs between .2 and .3 pounds according to a scale that my mama had, although Lali didn't want to sit still. Every store is at least an hour from here and we only have one vehicle that my husband usually drives to work. I know that is a wide range gram-wise (90-136) so I hope that it helps somewhat. I would be so grateful for any help with dosage for these medications.

To answer a few questions that were asked (and none of them offended me :thumbsup) its always possible that one of my younger kids fed her something. I do try to pay attention as close as I can and keep most things out of reach. My toddler gets into everything and tries to eat things herself, so even the non-toxic chalk is kept up unless we are playing with it (my toddler thinks its candy apparently, every piece has a few teeth marks in it). I don't let her run around eating anything and the majority of the toys wouldn't be able to fit through the bars in the cage. Also, they love to watch her but are afraid to get too close, probably because I don't let them handle her and they aren't sure if she's "safe". She's eating ok, not as well as usual but not enough for me to worry yet. She is using the bathroom fine. I've double checked all areas where she could have gotten into something. We don't have houseplants cause the baby eats them, no cords seem to be disturbed. My dogs are up to date on their shots, except the youngest one is not quite 3 months and hasn't had a rabies shot. I hope I answered everything.

Mommyluvy, I appreciate your offer of the medications. I hope that what I have is appropriate for her so that I can get her started asap. If not, I will send you my address if the offer still stands.

[CritterMom]

The antibiotics I don't think are needed - this little one doesn't look sick, I believe she may have injured herself as well. One wrong turn and you can pinch a nerve and the results are ridiculous. I leaned over my bed to pick up a sock once and pinched a nerve and wound up flat on my back for 10 days on heavy pain meds, muttering "It was a SOCK!" to anyone who would listen.

I would stick with the baby ibuprophen for now, and keep her in a small cage. The tramadol is a wonderful pain killer and they CAN use it, but it is a little too good a pain killer. If she pulled or twisted something her best bet for recovery is being quiet and as still as possible, just eating and sleeping and resting, and since you cannot explain or reason with her, the only thing that will stop her from trying to be a squirrel is having it hurt a little. I know it sounds mean but they can re-injure themselves if they don't know they are hurt.

Can you put a heating pad under part of her cage so it is under an area where she can sleep? They do like to snuggle where it is warm and it may help keep her quiet and it will certainly feel soothing to her.

Do hang on to the Sulfamethoxazole-trimethoprim though - you will see it referred to her as SMZ-TMP and it is a broad spectrum antibiotic that we use for a number of issues. I don't think she needs it now but it is a good thing to have.

[czarina]

Has anyone dosed the infant advil for you?
I think CritterMom said she was okay with using it, and I agree. It makes my boy sleepy, but if I am giving it, rest is usually a good thing for him.

Glad things didn't get any worse.