Monky & Whiskers MBD ongoing treatment

[Sandiesquirrel]

ok, finally found the spot for non-life threatening threads, lol.

Went to petsmart and got the nutrical. So far neither of them could care less about it. Will see.

They both are on dosage #3 of their tums, bread, peanut butter already. :grin3

also, they have drank a ton of water today. That's a good sign I would think? In fact, if I am giving him syringed water, she is jealous and if I am syringing her, he wants some. lol

So, due to that, I also purchased 2 water bottles, since they are shaped similar to a syringe? We will see if they take to them. Fingers crossed. I will also keep the water dishes in their cages. She doesnt care for hers, she can and will (reluctantly) drink from it but isnt enthralled with it. I will leave them because they both also used them for bathing. Or just playing?

Yesterday was a good day. 5 dosages of MBD treatment, and Monk ate all of his veggies and asked for MORE! Gave him his monkey biscuit and even SHE ate one. Must have been hungry babies.

Speaking of that, does anyone have a reasonable site I can order more? I am running dangerously low, and do not have my contact information on where I bought them prior. Thanks.

Leigh is concerned that possibly he may have parasites as well. So I am going to reach out to someone she knows who may be able to supply a vet in my area that of course is ok with addressing his issues.

Anymore suggestions are all certainly welcome as always thank you so much everyone. :thankyou

[RobinTN]

Sandie, I'm going to try to put a brief history here so folks can get an idea whats been going on with Monkey & hopefully give you some suggestions regarding his weight loss. Please correct any facts I get wrong bc I'm going on memory, LOL!

Monkey & his sister Whiskers are approx. 1 year old greys(?). Their Squammy Sandie noticed Monkey appears to have been losing weight recently. On closer exam, skin was tenting, and he would make a "squeak" when she tent tested which seemed to possibly be pain(?). Also, when he sits, his back appears to have a more pronounced hump than he'd shown previously (possibly due to weight loss?). He hasn't shown any lethargy, and stools are normal. Sister Whiskers appears healthy.

In Sandies first thread, it was determined that their diet had been deficient in calcium, and that is being corrected. Sandie has been giving Tums as per MBD protocol, and should be getting her HHBs & calcium supplement/MBD kit from Henrys, hopefully today. Nuts have been cut out, and they're now being fed by the squirrel nutrition guidelines.

Sandie has been very diligent over the weekend and Monkey is now hydrated. This is the link to original thread:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47803-Possibly-dehydrated-squirrel&p=1047178#post1047178

Since Monkey is now hydrated & dietary issues have been addressed, I thought it would be a good idea pick everyones brains regarding Monkeys weight loss, so that we don't miss the forest for the trees

There are so many wonderful people here :grouphug Thank you all in advance! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_IconTSB:Love_Icon:Love_I con:Love_Icon

[Sandiesquirrel]

Sandie, I'm going to try to put a brief history here so folks can get an idea whats been going on with Monkey & hopefully give you some suggestions regarding his weight loss. Please correct any facts I get wrong bc I'm going on memory, LOL!

Monkey & his sister Whiskers are approx. 1 year old greys(?). Their Squammy Sandie noticed Monkey appears to have been losing weight recently. On closer exam, skin was tenting, and he would make a "squeak" when she tent tested which seemed to possibly be pain(?). Also, when he sits, his back appears to have a more pronounced hump than he'd shown previously (possibly due to weight loss?). He hasn't shown any lethargy, and stools are normal. Sister Whiskers appears healthy.

In Sandies first thread, it was determined that their diet had been deficient in calcium, and that is being corrected. Sandie has been giving Tums as per MBD protocol, and should be getting her HHBs & calcium supplement/MBD kit from Henrys, hopefully today. Nuts have been cut out, and they're now being fed by the squirrel nutrition guidelines.

Sandie has been very diligent over the weekend and Monkey is now hydrated. This is the link to original thread:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47803-Possibly-dehydrated-squirrel&p=1047178#post1047178

Since Monkey is now hydrated & dietary issues have been addressed, I thought it would be a good idea pick everyones brains regarding Monkeys weight loss, so that we don't miss the forest for the trees

There are so many wonderful people here :grouphug Thank you all in advance! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_IconTSB:Love_Icon:Love_I con:Love_Icon

wow! Thanks robin. You're such an angel! The help is greatly appreciated as I still have issues manoeuvrings still.

Yes everything you stated is correct, except Whiskers is not his sister, she about at least a month older than him. Not that that matters. Also he is a little over a year? Guessing he was a week old when I got him, so we think he was born last june, july?

His weight loss started about approx 3 weeks ago? I did purchase a digital gram scale, but It is impossible to weight him as he wont sit still on it long enough to register, even if I set a nut on the scale (WHEN we were giving him nuts).

Also Leigh thinks it may very well be something other than MBD or in addition to. She is thinking possible parasites? She suggested I contact Nancy in New York or Island Rehaber. Said they both may be able to hook me up with a trustworthy vet in my area, Do to legalities. Although I do not know how or havent figured it out yet. Robin maybe you could PM me and tell me how? Sorry to be a pain.

As stated, yesterday and today so far have been good days. I will tent test him again later and let you all know. I can't now as he is sleeping in his hat :)

Again looking for a link or info to get more monkey biscuits. Thank you all very much.
Especially my new pal, Robin. :grin3

[Rhapsody]

Praying and sending Healing Vibes. :Love_Icon

[farrelli]

Is there a reason you want MBs instead of more Hanry's blocks? If its budget, I think Harlan Teklad or Oxbow rodent blocks are better than MBs.

If you're set on Mbs, I think most MBs are actually Zupreem Primate Chow. If you Google it, you'll find a lot of places that sell it.

[farrelli]

If you can't find a vet, though I think you will, and you think it's parasites, toy might look for some Panacur.

[Sandiesquirrel]

Praying and sending Healing Vibes. :Love_Icon

Thank you :serene

[Sandiesquirrel]

Is there a reason you want MBs instead of more Hanry's blocks? If its budget, I think Harlan Teklad or Oxbow rodent blocks are better than MBs.

If you're set on Mbs, I think most MBs are actually Zupreem Primate Chow. If you Google it, you'll find a lot of places that sell it.

No No Not that I am set on them at all. I am anxiously awaiting for my HHB's that should be coming today, any minute, I hope!!! Leigh said they were coming today.

She also said I could continue to give him a MB as a treat only AFTER he has eaten his HHB's for the day AND his new regimented diet of MBD.

Sorry for any confusion. I promise, I am following the new diet to the T. Not one nut has passed their lips, scouts honor.

[Sandiesquirrel]

If you can't find a vet, though I think you will, and you think it's parasites, toy might look for some Panacur.

Yes, I think I will find a vet as well. I am just so new to the sight I am still learning how to navigate. RobinTN has been so nice & helpful to me!

As well as Leigh. She suggested to contact two people on here, I am just trying to figure out how to do it. I will get it. And Robin always helps me.

Thanks for the encouragement. Love you're blackk squirrel. I have never seen one, is that what they are called? Neat!

[Sandiesquirrel]

If you can't find a vet, though I think you will, and you think it's parasites, toy might look for some Panacur.

By the way, I didnt understand you're last sentence: "toy might look for some Panacur"

Can you clarify please? Thanks

[farrelli]

Toy=try. Always in a rush. Panacur is a drug that's good to fight parasites. We can tell you how to dose if you need, but you'll probably get a vet.

You contact the members by clicking Notificaitons at the top right of your window, click Send New Massage, ans fill in the users ID just like on email, every letter you type will bring up a closer selection of users to what you want, and then just click on the one you want. We call it PMing.

[RobinTN]

Yes Farrelli is right, the actual name of the MBs is Zupreem Primate Chow. You might try calling around to some of your local pet stores, esp if you have any that specialize in birds. Many bird owners feed MBs, and thats where I was able to find mine... for TREATS lol:poke

Another idea I've heard mentioned (sneaky squirrel people:grin3) is contacting a vet and seeing if you can bring your "pet rats poo" in for a fecal exam without bringing the animal... "He just gets so stressed out!" After all, poo is poo and money is money, right? You would still need a weight in order to get the correct dose if you do end up worming them. Can you try putting a box or basket on your scales and putting him in it? He may stay long enough to get a weight, then subtract the weight of the container.

Just brainstorming...:tilt

[Sandiesquirrel]

Toy=try. Always in a rush. Panacur is a drug that's good to fight parasites. We can tell you how to dose if you need, but you'll probably get a vet.

You contact the members by clicking Notificaitons at the top right of your window, click Send New Massage, ans fill in the users ID just like on email, every letter you type will bring up a closer selection of users to what you want, and then just click on the one you want. We call it PMing.

got it, my Ipad, when I use it auto corrects to some pretty terrible things, lol. Just wasnt sure of the panacur, ok meds.

working on vet. Ur info will help me a lot, thanks so much.
You guys/girls are fantastic, love you all. He just seems so thin, working as fast as I can. BTW I dont have an iphone, still a flip phone, and not the best on ipad, lol...so excuse my ignorance. All help greatly appreciated. truly.

[Sandiesquirrel]

Yes Farrelli is right, the actual name of the MBs is Zupreem Primate Chow. You might try calling around to some of your local pet stores, esp if you have any that specialize in birds. Many bird owners feed MBs, and thats where I was able to find mine... for TREATS lol:poke

Another idea I've heard mentioned (sneaky squirrel people:grin3) is contacting a vet and seeing if you can bring your "pet rats poo" in for a fecal exam without bringing the animal... "He just gets so stressed out!" After all, poo is poo and money is money, right? You would still need a weight in order to get the correct dose if you do end up worming them. Can you try putting a box or basket on your scales and putting him in it? He may stay long enough to get a weight, then subtract the weight of the container.

Just brainstorming...:tilt

Love the way you think GF. Great idea, since I worry about stress of him going anywhere, seriously, no joke. Not to mention, great idea of the scale/weight. fantastic. Think I may return this one, only 20.00 and get the other one I saw, that has a cup like top, I could use one of the hats??? Just a thought.

[Sandiesquirrel]

Does anyone know of a vet that "hopefully" will see a squirrels poo and given weight for possible parasites & treat, in Rochester NY? Yall know legalities and all.......It would be great if they were willing to not see him due to added stress. if not understood, just need a start, help please!

[Sandiesquirrel]

Good news! My HHB blocks & calcium came, finally. Great news! They both devoured their first one in 5 mins or less.

Question: Leigh suggested that I give them both 50 mg of calcium for a couple of weeks then discontinue. How do I know how much is 50 mg? Suggestions?

Thanks

[CritterMom]

Did you buy some of the calcium from Leigh?

[Sandiesquirrel]

Did you buy some of the calcium from Leigh?

Yes I did, and the MBD blocks they LOVE :thumbsup

I was confused on the treatment, dosage, but Leigh private messaged me, and I think I am more clear and all set now. Just do a 100 and split in half. Sadly, I didnt think of that. lol

But I think 50 works out to about an 1/8 Tsp of calcium.

Thanks for answering me.

[CritterMom]

So this is the little plastic packet of Calcium Carbonate from Henrys?

Unless Leigh has changed very recently, your calculations are off. There is even a dosing guide on the front of my packet and 1/8 teaspoon is 165 mg Calcium. That means that you would be giving only about 1/3 of the 1/8 teaspoon! It isn't very much.

[TubeDriver]

:thumbsup

[Sandiesquirrel]

So this is the little plastic packet of Calcium Carbonate from Henrys?

Unless Leigh has changed very recently, your calculations are off. There is even a dosing guide on the front of my packet and 1/8 teaspoon is 165 mg Calcium. That means that you would be giving only about 1/3 of the 1/8 teaspoon! It isn't very much.

Yes from Henry's, plastic packet. She wrote me and told me on phone to do just do 50 Mg, once a day on both of them.

Soooo, now what? She is very knowledgeable. Maybe because he appears rehydrated and I have been giving him crushed tums in peanut butter/bread??? Both of them actually.

What are you thinking?

[Sandiesquirrel]

:thumbsup

Thanks for the support, you found me :)

One step at a time right? I still am having no success, finding a squirrel and law friendly vet for the parasites, but havent given up.

Person above me thinks 50 MG of calcium from Henry's is too little, but boy Leigh sure knows her stuff.

[Sandiesquirrel]

So this is the little plastic packet of Calcium Carbonate from Henrys?

Unless Leigh has changed very recently, your calculations are off. There is even a dosing guide on the front of my packet and 1/8 teaspoon is 165 mg Calcium. That means that you would be giving only about 1/3 of the 1/8 teaspoon! It isn't very much.

I think I see what you mean, my math is not so great with this stuff. She told me to just take 100 mg, and cut in half, but I only see calculations to 165 MG. Help please! Sorry.
Feeding time is coming up at 6pm, soon. Thanks

[Sandiesquirrel]

:thumbsup

sorry to be a pain, confused with calcium measurements/amounts.
my math is not so great with this stuff. She told me to just take 100 mg, and cut in half, but I only see calculations to 165 MG. Help please! Sorry.
Feeding time is coming up at 6pm, soon. Thanks

Geez, not sure how I passed math.

[CritterMom]

OK!! Yes, Leigh's calculations are just fine - we just need to get that amount into your squirrel.

Do you have a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon? Scoop out 1/8 teaspoon of the calcium and level it off just like you would if you were baking. Dump it out onto a smooth, clean surface. Use a little knife (if you want to look like a 1970's cocaine cowboy you can use a razor blade :gigg) and divide that little pile into three equal piles. Each one of them will be 55mg of calcium, and that is CLOSE ENOUGH!! Believe me, a few milligrams either way is not a problem. :thumbsup

[Sandiesquirrel]

I spoke to Leigh this eve, the reason for the lower dosage is bc they have no signs of MBD, this all re-energent kind of things, we are thinking parasites, which is wy we are just doing all of this now. Not ruling out anything since she appears good, him not so much. I am hunting for a squirrel friendly vet for me, with legality issues, if you get me. Leigh wanted to see pics of him now, not from before, so I am going to try to DL two pics, not great, but all I have right now.....
Btw, tried to weigh them tonight, with advice from Leigh, best I have is Monkey (thin one) appears 513, and she appears 515, in Grams, hard to tell they move fast and small platform on scale.

Any thoughts are welcome. Rochester, NY. Need a vet thinking
244247

Hope pic worked...

[nkkritters]

I know it is a bit of drive but Dr. Carl Tomaschke of Seneca Animal Hospital in Elma NY is great with wildlife/ exotics. Their phone # is 716-652-6120. It is worth a try to call and see if they will see Monkey or do a fecal.

[RobinTN]

I know it is a bit of drive but Dr. Carl Tomaschke of Seneca Animal Hospital in Elma NY is great with wildlife/ exotics. Their phone # is 716-652-6120. It is worth a try to call and see if they will see Monkey or do a fecal.


:bow:thankyounkkritters

I've been :lurkinglurking LOL, following thread but too busy last cpl days to comment. I googled these cities, & it looks like its about 1hr 20min drive. I hate to say it, but you may have to resort to that.:dono At least maybe it's an option?

[nkkritters]

oops, Monky...:squirrel2

[Sandiesquirrel]

So this is the little plastic packet of Calcium Carbonate from Henrys?

Unless Leigh has changed very recently, your calculations are off. There is even a dosing guide on the front of my packet and 1/8 teaspoon is 165 mg Calcium. That means that you would be giving only about 1/3 of the 1/8 teaspoon! It isn't very much.

No she hasn't changed it. The way she explained it to me is the fact that monkey has never been lethargic and had no changes after starting the MBD treatment, this is why she is thinking parasites, and the lower dosage. Hope that makes sense?

[CritterMom]

No she hasn't changed it. The way she explained it to me is the fact that monkey has never been lethargic and had no changes after starting the MBD treatment, this is why she is thinking parasites, and the lower dosage. Hope that makes sense?

When I said "If Leigh hasn't changed it" I meant if she hasn't changed her calcium supplier - I knew I had a baggie of the same stuff in the refrigerator and your calculations to reach 50mg were way off based on the concentration I had.

Yes, it makes sense, especially since Monky is also eating the HHBs which have calcium in them too. You are just slightly boosting his daily amount. :thumbsup

[Sandiesquirrel]

OK!! Yes, Leigh's calculations are just fine - we just need to get that amount into your squirrel.

Do you have a 1/8 teaspoon measuring spoon? Scoop out 1/8 teaspoon of the calcium and level it off just like you would if you were baking. Dump it out onto a smooth, clean surface. Use a little knife (if you want to look like a 1970's cocaine cowboy you can use a razor blade :gigg) and divide that little pile into three equal piles. Each one of them will be 55mg of calcium, and that is CLOSE ENOUGH!! Believe me, a few milligrams either way is not a problem. :thumbsup

I do not have 1/8 teaspoon we guessed moderately today and I am going out to get one TOMORROW!!! Thanks so much.

[Sandiesquirrel]

I know it is a bit of drive but Dr. Carl Tomaschke of Seneca Animal Hospital in Elma NY is great with wildlife/ exotics. Their phone # is 716-652-6120. It is worth a try to call and see if they will see Monkey or do a fecal.

Thanks Nancy, much appreciated. Found it. Just need to make sure they are squirrel friendly and I won't have to surrender. At least maybe they could test the poop?
I will reach out to them. No prob on drive, outta work anyways.

[Sandiesquirrel]

oops, Monky...:squirrel2
No prob. Help is much appreciated.

[Sandiesquirrel]

I think? Monkey is doing better? Appears to have out on some weight. 524-525 grams now from 513? Yay! So hard to weigh them, wiggle worms. No monkey biscuits now due to my good friends Leigh and Kim. Possible cancer threat. We do all veggies first, many, then only a little fruit, and then a nut, small almond store bought. Going to stop nuts for a bit as they get a pattern and except them.
Their treat is Leigh's HHB biscuits, which they absolutely adore and grab for them. Literally out of our hands. Leigh is my hero too. Kim has been a God send with advice, suggestions as well. So has robin what a good friend. ! Can't thank everyone enough. Really want to thank you all.
Am still consistently working on acquiring a vet, waiting on two calls. Don't want to clean cage until it's a go. Just did it so no issue there.
Any mistakes on my part, feel free to point them out. Thanks again all.

Ps, whiskers didn't eat her calcium supp to isn't, but night isn't over, will try again! I me ver give up, lol.
Oh yeah, Both did some major tee teeing tonight all over sheet on bed. Good sign? Think so.

[nkkritters]

Any luck in finding a veterinarian?

[Sweet Simon's Mommy]

Here is Gio's story
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?43761-Keep-up-the-TSB-Vibes-for-little-GIO!!!!-bad-MBD-!!!&highlight=giovanni+buzwald

When i got him he was 5 or 6 months old and could barely lift his head. He had given up. I worked long and hard on him .
In Dec it will be a year that I have had him, I love him with all my heart and he still has issues and problems because of MBD, it does not just go way. I believe that some are more likely to get it than other and others can back slide very easily after having it. I have to be VERY careful what he eats and when. He still can not sit up and use his hind legs like a regular squirrel, but he is happy little guy who loves his Momma!!!
He gets NO nuts...his nuts are in his HHB's he gets fresh branches to chew on for his teeth, cutter bone and calcium treat for birds.

HHB in the morning
Brocolli, cauliflower, baby boc-choy, parsley, various greens around 11 AM
a piece of Sweet potato or fresh coconut as an afternoon snack
snap peas, carrot and water melon for dinner
HHB as nighttime treat before bed

everything always fresh, anything not eaten always is removed before the next round goes in.

He gets 15 minutes of sunshine EVERYDAY rain or shine we go out side , his calcium cannot be properly absorbed with out it.