4 week baby, very sick, please help!

[Nletchworth]

Hi there,
My name is Nicole. I am a new caregiver to a baby squirrel. I have had him for a month now. He was very little, maybe hours old, when I found the nest on the ground. He was the only one out of five alive. He has made it this far and his eyes opened two days ago.

My concern is that for the last day, starting yesterday, going into today, he is SO lethargic. He hardly moves and has stopped calling me at night to feed. I have a friend who is a vet who gave me Biomax Amoxicillin and told me to give 0.1 ml every 12 hours. I have started that at 5 this afternoon.

I read on a website to give echinacea and homeopathic remedy carbo vegetables. I have done this. He is peeing but has only pooped once today...normally he poops at every feeding. He is not eager to eat like he was. He somewhat sucks, then just dozes and kind of drinks.

Am I going to lose my guy? How bad does this sound? Is there anything else I can do? I'm so upset about this! Please help me!

[SquirrelyDad]

Hi there,
My name is Nicole. I am a new caregiver to a baby squirrel. I have had him for a month now. He was very little, maybe hours old, when I found the nest on the ground. He was the only one out of five alive. He has made it this far and his eyes opened two days ago.

My concern is that for the last day, starting yesterday, going into today, he is SO lethargic. He hardly moves and has stopped calling me at night to feed. I have a friend who is a vet who gave me Biomax Amoxicillin and told me to give 0.1 ml every 12 hours. I have started that at 5 this afternoon.

I read on a website to give echinacea and homeopathic remedy carbo vegetables. I have done this. He is peeing but has only pooped once today...normally he poops at every feeding. He is not eager to eat like he was. He somewhat sucks, then just dozes and kind of drinks.

Am I going to lose my guy? How bad does this sound? Is there anything else I can do? I'm so upset about this! Please help me!

Hi Nicole, Sending prayers for your little guy :grouphug. Someone with more experience should chime in soon. You came to the right place!!

[Nancy in New York]

Are you giving formula, if not, he needs to be on Esbilac with probiotics, the powdered kind.
Is he on a heating pad, half under the container?
Has he aspirated?
How large is the syringe that you are using, and are you using nipples with it?
Can you post a photo?
How much does he weigh, and did the vet see him?
Also how often are you feeding. They usually never cry at night to be
fed as we typically feed a certain number of hours apart so they don't get
too hungry.

edit: What formula are or were you using?

[Nletchworth]

Are you giving formula, if not, he needs to be on Esbilac with probiotics, the powdered kind.
Is he on a heating pad, half under the container?
Has he aspirated?
How large is the syringe that you are using, and are you using nipples with it?
Can you post a photo?
How much does he weigh, and did the vet see him?
Also how often are you feeding. They usually never cry at night to be
fed as we typically feed a certain number of hours apart so they don't get
too hungry.

Thanks for the reply!
I am feeding Esbilac powdered w pre and probiotics. Every 3-3.5 hours 2-2.5 CCs from a 2cc syringe and small eye dropper, no nipple.

He is 1/2 on 1/2 off heating pad set to med heat. I have his nest resting on a towel inside of a box on the pad.

I did aspirate, which is why I went from the dropper to the syringe. I was using the dropper bc the tip was smaller and fit into his mouth better. He was so tiny when I found him that the end of the syringe didn't go in. He was doing really good w eating lately...but doing a lot of sucking and taking the milk from me more than me giving it.

My friend is the vet and would not see him. He said he couldn't bc he was a wild animal. He just told me it was likely a chest or lung issue from him aspirating since I saw bubbles in the nose and gave me the med. I am not sure how much he weighs.

He stopped crying at night about 4 nights ago. I assumed this was associated w this thing he has. My last feed for him was around 11 or 12 and he would wake me at 4-5 to eat. However, he stopped that so I have been waking him up to eat at 3.

Most recent pic attached. This is from Friday before eyes opened.

[Nletchworth]

243614

[Nancy in New York]

He is adorable, just adorable.
I don't know how your friend could have dosed this medicine without a weight on the squirrel.
That is how it is typically dosed.
Do you have a strength on the amoxi?

edit: he does NOT need Echinacea and can you tell me what carbo vegetables are?
Will your vet give you Baytril or Clavamox?

He doesn't need his nest in with him, it could have bugs, just put some nice fleece, or
tee shirts in, and no towels, they can catch their little nails on the loops. The heating pad
should be outside of the container, and placed under half of the container set on LOW.
Give a little hydration in between feedings with just sugar water, 1 teaspoon to 1 cup warm water....and try putting a little maple
syrup or molasses on his gums, see if that may perk him up some.

[Nletchworth]

Honestly, it was all done under the table so the speak. I don't think he wanted to get into trouble. There does not seem to be a dose of this anywhere. It just says Biomax amoxicillin 50 mg/ml.

I can call and ask for the other tomorrow. I also have Cefixime 200mg/5ml that I have left over from my daughter having a uti. It was a 125 dollar bottle of med that worked for E. coli....but I don't know his weight...or if that will work!?

I read about Carbo Vegetabilis on a website. It is a homeopathic remedy. They said

Homeopathic Medication.
Veterinarians using classical home-
opathy recommend oral admin-
istration of a total of one or two
doses of homeopathic Phosphorus
30c in the acute and early stages of respiratory dis- tress due to aspiration (e.g., in the first 48 hours
of respiratory problems) (Casey and Black 2002; Casey and Herman 2004). Later stages of respiratory distress due to aspiration may involve other homeo- pathic remedies, such as one or two total doses of Sulphur 30c or Carbo vegetabilis 30c, according to homeopathic principles. The homeopathic remedies in 30c potencies that are mentioned above are avail- able from homeopathic veterinarians, online sources, or pharmacies.

I'm desperate! I don't want him to die :-(

[Nletchworth]

He is adorable, just adorable.
I don't know how your friend could have dosed this medicine without a weight on the squirrel.
That is how it is typically dosed.
Do you have a strength on the amoxi?

edit: he does NOT need Echinacea and can you tell me what carbo vegetables are?
Will your vet give you Baytril or Clavamox?

He doesn't need his nest in with him, it could have bugs, just put some nice fleece, or
tee shirts in, and no towels, they can catch their little nails on the loops. The heating pad
should be outside of the container, and placed under half of the container set on LOW.
Give a little hydration in between feedings with just sugar water, 1 teaspoon to 1 cup warm water....and try putting a little maple
syrup or molasses on his gums, see if that may perk him up some.


Also, I have given the sugar water and molasses. Started those yesterday but stopped today around noon after speaking to a wildlife rehab guy who told me to stop that and get amoxicillin.....I was waiting to get added to this forum and desperate to help my guy. So should I go back to giving sugar water and molasses between feedings?

Also, will either of the meds I mentioned above work? I paid 20 bucks for this amoxicillin.

[Nancy in New York]

Also, I have given the sugar water and molasses. Started those yesterday but stopped today around noon after speaking to a wildlife rehab guy who told me to stop that and get amoxicillin.....I was waiting to get added to this forum and desperate to help my guy. So should I go back to giving sugar water and molasses between feedings?

Also, will either of the meds I mentioned above work? I paid 20 bucks for this amoxicillin.

If the dose is only .1 while that is high for a squirrel this size, I'm not sure of the strength that he gave you. How are you administering this? You are using the syringe, correct? You know where the mark is, right? I do think the amox is high, is there any other info on the bottle?
Probiotics have to be used when giving antibiotics, especially all penicillins as they cause gastric upset.
I have no idea why he would tell you to stop hydrating between feedings. Never heard of that before. You do not
have to give molasses, I just was curious to see if he would perk up. You can just give plain water if he is wanting it.

[Nletchworth]

So the med I have for my daughter is for pneumonia...but for humans. I'm not how to dose for such a small critter. Web says:


Why is this medication prescribed?
Cefixime is a cephalosporin antibiotic used to treat infections caused by bacteria such as pneumonia; bronchitis; gonorrhea; and ear, lung, throat, and urinary tract infections.





Do you guys think this is the ticket, keep doing amoxicillin, or get Baytril?

[Nletchworth]

If the dose is only .1 while that is high for a squirrel this size, I'm not sure of the strength that he gave you. How are you administering this? You are using the syringe, correct? You know where the mark is, right? I do think the amox is high, is there any other info on the bottle?
Probiotics have to be used when giving antibiotics, especially all penicillins as they cause gastric upset.
I have no idea why he would tell you to stop hydrating between feedings. Never heard of that before. You do not
have to give molasses, I just was curious to see if he would perk up. You can just give plain water if he is wanting it.

I am using a 1cc syringe to administer. I placed in the mouth. I have only given it once. Should I stop? I do know where the mark is.

The bottle says for dogs and when reconstituted, it's 50ml/g.

He, the vet friend of mine, told me to start at 0.1 CC and if he gets diareah, cut in half.

So do I keep giving this, give the med I mentioned above, or get baytril?

[Nancy in New York]

I am using a 1cc syringe to administer. I placed in the mouth. I have only given it once. Should I stop? I do know where the mark is.

The bottle says for dogs and when reconstituted, it's 50ml/g.

He, the vet friend of mine, told me to start at 0.1 CC and if he gets diareah, cut in half.

So do I keep giving this, give the med I mentioned above, or get baytril?

If you are treating for aspiration pneumonia I would get Baytril. I can pm you the page from the WMB book to show your vet for the dosing info. And I can also guesstimate the weight of your baby. OR if you have a gram scale you could weigh him. You also are suppose to feed 5-7% of their body weight so a scale is really important.

Do you mean 50 mg/ml?

[Nletchworth]

If you are treating for aspiration pneumonia I would get Baytril. I can pm you the page from the WMB book to show your vet for the dosing info. And I can also guesstimate the weight of your baby. OR if you have a gram scale you could weigh him. You also are suppose to feed 5-7% of their body weight so a scale is really important.

Do you mean 50 mg/ml?

Yes I did mean 50 mg/ml. I got your sheet. I will call the vet I n the Am for baytril. I hope my guy makes it through the night! Would love you to guess the weight. I will obtain a scale this week! Thanks so much!

[lukaslolamaus]

Sending healing prayers:grouphug

[lilidukes]

Hi Nicole :Welcome

Fist let me tell you that I too have a friend who is a vet.
She calls me for advice about the squirrels she is raising.
Many of our vet friends are wonderful for technical advice
but have little experience with squirrels. They are learning
just like we continue to do.

That Amoxi dose is way off.

Baby needs a set feeding schedule not feeding him when he
wakes you up.

I applaud you for doing so much research for your baby. But
trying too many things on this tiny animal is as bad as doing
nothing at all.

Here on TSB there are hundreds of years worth of combined
experience to learn from. So please ask us before trying
out just anything you've read on the internet. We have all
come together to save squirrels. Your baby squirrel is
loved by all here.

Praying for baby :grouphug:grouphug

[Nletchworth]

Ok guys, need help ASAP please. I have to work at 11 so if changing the med today, I need to leave like now to head to his office bc it is an hour away.

Called and he does not have Baytril but he does have Orabax, which is in Baytril family. Will that work?? I do NOT want to spend more $$ on the wrong thing.

[MollyBear361]

How is he today? Stop the homeopathic stuff. He looks cute but his fur is a little off as if he's not getting enough nutrition. But it could be the picture. You really need nipples. Do you have any? Where are you in TX? You also need a scale. Like a food scale to properly weigh this little guy to properly medicate and to also feed the correct amount..

.and to make sure he is gaining weight every day.

[Nletchworth]

How is he today? Stop the homeopathic stuff. He looks cute but his fur is a little off as if he's not getting enough nutrition. But it could be the picture. You really need nipples. Do you have any? Where are you in TX? You also need a scale. Like a food scale to properly weigh this little guy to properly medicate and to also feed the correct amount..

.and to make sure he is gaining weight every day.


I do not have nipples. I tried to get them at 3 different pet stores and they only had syringes and bottles. I am in East Texas, right on border of Texas and Louisiana. A scale I can get. I have been feeding 2-2.5 CC at each feeding. He was literally maybe a day old when I found him bc its been 4 weeks since I've had him and his eyes opened over the weekend.

So do you think it is lack of nutrition rather than sickness??

[MollyBear361]

Also is he hydrated? You can do a tent test to check. Sometimes if they are dehydrated he won't eat. Pull up on the skin between his shoulder blades/neck. If it snaps back he is good. If it stays up and tents he is dehydrated.

also does he click...do you hear clicking in his chest every time he breathes? That is what pneumonia sounds like.

[Nancy in New York]

Stay with the amoxicillin for now. This is not a bad choice,
just not the first choice, but it's good.
This is what I am dosing, and please know this is just a guesstimate on his weight.

I am guessing 75 grams, so the dose would be 0.03 twice daily for 7-10 days.
Keep him well hydrated.
Give probiotics 2 hours before or 2 hours after administering any antibiotic, but especially
anything in the penicillin family as it can cause gastric upset.

[MollyBear361]

You will have to order nipples online at Henry's Healthy pets or some other sites. Or PM me and I can send you one or two until you get some ordered....I'm in South TX so shouldn't take that long to get to you.

[Nletchworth]

there is NO clicking going on when he breaths. He is just VERY lethargic. It is not any better this AM and was not over night.

I am getting a scale today. But, I have a question.

1. I have been feeding every 3 hours. Is that not enough?

2. If I am giving Sugar water in between feedings, how often, every 1.5 hours and how much do I give?

3. For the Amoxil dose, my synringe is not small enough to measure 0.03. The smallest syringe I have is a 1 CC so the smallest dose is .01. Do they make smaller syringes and can I get that at CVS? Apparently the vet did not have one which is why he told me to give 0.1 for the dose. It was the smallest he had.

[Mommaluvy]

Can you post a pic of your syringe ?
Is it a 1 cc or a 3 cc .. Or what is the total it holds?

[Nancy in New York]

Your 1 cc syringe should have the .03.
Look at this picture, see where the .05 is marked? (It's the longer one with the arrow)
You go two spaces below that mark and that is .03
I'm running late, will be back in about 2 hours.
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[Nletchworth]

OMG...I had a scale all along! It was in the my teaching things! YEAAAAAA!! Baby weighs in at 42.8g. So exactly how much should I be feeding?

For my syringe, the most it holds is 1.0 ML. It is small. Do you still need a pic?

[Nletchworth]

Your 1 cc syringe should have the .03.
Look at this picture, see where the .05 is marked? (It's the longer one with the arrow)
You go two spaces below that mark and that is .03
I'm running late, will be back in about 2 hours.
243620

OMG...I feel like an idiot! Ok, I see that now. Thanks Nancy!:Love_Icon

[Nletchworth]

Mollybear, thanks for sending them! I ordered just now but it will take 5-7 days for them to get to me. I am sure I will get your first! Thanks again!:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

OMG...I feel like an idiot! Ok, I see that now. Thanks Nancy!:Love_Icon

We have ALL done things like this, so NOT to worry at all. :Love_Icon
This is exactly why Stosh made up this photo with the explanation, and it comes
in SO handy, almost daily! :Love_Icon

[MollyBear361]

42.8g x .05 = 2.14 cc. This 5%.
42.8g x .07= 2.996 cc. This is 7%.
Feed between 2.14-2.996 cc each feeding. Adjust with weight each day. Weigh same time each day. Usually morning before feeding and/or after bathroom.

[MollyBear361]

So he is an eastern grey? Looks so by the white tail. I know you have both foxers and eastern greys where you live. I don't want to alarm you but I think he is under weight. He needs to eat.....I hope he gets better. Poor baby. Feed the 5 to 7 percent body weight every 4 to 5 hours.

[MollyBear361]

NINY. This baby weighs way less than that. Can you adjust meds?

Has baby gotten any meds yet at all?

[Nancy in New York]

NINY. This baby weighs way less than that. Can you adjust meds?

Has baby gotten any meds yet at all?

Will do, thank you for pointing this out. :thumbsup

[Nancy in New York]

Because you now have a weight on the squirrel, take the dose down to 0.02 twice daily.

[Nancy in New York]

NINY. This baby weighs way less than that. Can you adjust meds?

Has baby gotten any meds yet at all?

Not sure if he got any today, but he did get one dose from what the vet said at .1 ml.
I also pm'd her to bring the amount down a notch to .02 from what my "guesstimate" was
of .03

[Nletchworth]

Ok, so I will take that dose down but he had the 03 dose this AM. Will that hurt him?

Also, I need to know how much sugar water to give between feedings pls. Same amount as feed?

Lastly, the orphaned squirrel site had me stop overnight feedings after 1 week on their chart. Do I need to still get up w him every 3 hours at night to feed? On their chart, it says:

"Feed 6 – 9cc or more per feeding 5 times a day every 3.5 hours. Example of a feeding schedule for 5X a day: 7am, 10:30am, 2pm, 5:30pm, 9pm "

This is the feeding schedule I was following, but he was not and has never taken 6-9 CC of food!

OMG....have I starved this baby to death almost??:(

[MollyBear361]

Some squirrels are just smaller. Also depends in if they are greys or foxers. Their weight varies. Keep with the 5 to 7 percent every four hours or since he seems to be underweight. You can also add blocks to chew on now that his eyes are open. I an sending you some. Mostly they will play with it and chew on it but won't really eat it for awhile. Since he is so small I would keep feeding every 4-5 hours since he's so small. Just want to make sure he has a chance to digest before the next feeding. If he takes in slightly more than the 5 to 7 percent it is ok. It may differ a tiny bit each feeding. It is a guideline. Hopefully he will pick up some weight. Maybe others have some ideas on getting his weight up. I'm not sure he can fill up with sugar water or not which would cause him to eat less formula which has the nutrients he needs. Some people try pecan ensure but I would wait to see if someone recommends this right now. Have you checked for tenting. Is he dehydrated? I would be worried if he isn't dehydrated that the sugar water would fill him up and then he wouldn't get enough actual food and nutrients from formula. He should be gaining weight every day.
Most people recommend to offer only blocks as first food so they get used to it. Others try cheerios or apples . Peeled . No seeds or peelings. Seeds are poisonous.

[Nletchworth]

Some squirrels are just smaller. Also depends in if they are greys or foxers. Their weight varies. Keep with the 5 to 7 percent every four hours or since he seems to be underweight. You can also add blocks to chew on now that his eyes are open. I an sending you some. Mostly they will play with it and chew on it but won't really eat it for awhile. Since he is so small I would keep feeding every 4-5 hours since he's so small. Just want to make sure he has a chance to digest before the next feeding. If he takes in slightly more than the 5 to 7 percent it is ok. It may differ a tiny bit each feeding. It is a guideline. Hopefully he will pick up some weight. Maybe others have some ideas on getting his weight up. I'm not sure he can fill up with sugar water or not which would cause him to eat less formula which has the nutrients he needs. Some people try pecan ensure but I would wait to see if someone recommends this right now. Have you checked for tenting. Is he dehydrated? I would be worried if he isn't dehydrated that the sugar water would fill him up and then he wouldn't get enough actual food and nutrients from formula. He should be gaining weight every day.
Most people recommend to offer only blocks as first food so they get used to it. Others try cheerios or apples . Peeled . No seeds or peelings. Seeds are poisonous.

I have checked for tenting and think it is staying up...but it could be a shoulder blade. He doesn't have much skin. Here is what I have so far from waking bc I thought the skin was staying up. I will take a pic for you to see and you can say if its tenting from dehydration or just his body.


8:00 fed 2.5 CCs. He was willing to eat, but VERY slow at it this am
8:20 .03 Amoxil
9:30 1 CC sugar water. He perked up a little after.

Removed nest and towel from box. Added T shirts. Still 1/2 on heating pad, now on Low. Whole thing is in window right now getting sunlight. good/ bad?

[MollyBear361]

Don't be discouraged. You've done more to save him than most people would. And you are trying. More pics would help. If he is dehydrated you could pick up skin behind his neck and it would stay tented. If it snaps down he is not dehydrated. Maybe more full body pics would help us.

What kind of box is he in? Cardboard is bad and sucks the moisture from him. A sterlite container is good. I would worry he may get too hot in the window....we're in Texas. The sunlight through a window wont do him any good anyway. Give him Tshirts to snuggle in. Good with the heating pad half....on low....put a shirt or towel on top then put the sterlite container on it half on/off. :grin3

[Nletchworth]

243621243622

Can you see. I'm thinking he is dehydrated. Also, he peed on me without stimulation when I picked him up to take this pic. Is that bad?

[Nletchworth]

243623

[Nletchworth]

Guys, this 4 week old looks NOTHING like 4 week olders I have seen! Do you think he is younger...or have I just starved him to this point? Geez, maybe I need to bring him to someone else. I feel like such a failure! I was doing exactly what the other site said to do. Thanks SO much guys for your help. I do not know what I would do w out your help!

[MollyBear361]

They learn to pee on their own about this age so its ok. Keep stimulating him for now.

Yes, he is very malnourished and small. NINY - can you recommend something to help get some meat on him? He needs to get some meat on him asap. It may be pneumonia or he may just be weak from not enough nutrients...Should she try pecan or ensure or something.

I'm headed to post office. I will try to get the nipples to you overnight. Baby is in bad shape. Thank you for doing all you are for him....:hug

[MollyBear361]

Guys, this 4 week old looks NOTHING like 4 week olders I have seen! Do you think he is younger...or have I just starved him to this point? Geez, maybe I need to bring him to someone else. I feel like such a failure! I was doing exactly what the other site said to do. Thanks SO much guys for your help. I do not know what I would do w out your help!
You've said you had him for four weeks right? And he just opened his eyes?

[UDoWhat]

At this time, I would not take him up past 5-7% of his weight. He is not use to it and could develop over feeding diarrhea. You and this baby do NOT need that to deal with that. Some healthy baby squirrels can take more than 5-7% of their weight but please stabilize this little one before attempting to raise his formula and then only very slowly if at all. For most of my babies I do not go over 7%.... except in a few cases.

Please know that you are doing the best you can with him. He would have died without your help. TSB members will guide you to help you raise a healthy baby squirrel. You are in the right place to do just that.

[MollyBear361]

Guys, this 4 week old looks NOTHING like 4 week olders I have seen! Do you think he is younger...or have I just starved him to this point? Geez, maybe I need to bring him to someone else. I feel like such a failure! I was doing exactly what the other site said to do. Thanks SO much guys for your help. I do not know what I would do w out your help!

You are not a failure. You are trying your best.....most people would have walked away from him in the nest. :Love_Icon Does he have a name?

[stepnstone]

That picture... he looks extremely dehydrated!
...and malnorished. Glad you found TSB.

[MollyBear361]

What can she do to get his weight and hydration up? If he's not clicking are we sure she should continue meds? I'm trying to help but there are more experienced peeps on here. Don't give up. :grouphug

[Nletchworth]

Thanks for all of the help! I just fed 7% and he took it and wanted it! I gave sugar water at 9:30 and plan to give it between feedings unless you guys say no...

His name is Rocky.

He pooped after so yeah ;-) No runny stools from meds yet.

I have to teach online for an hour. I will be back for tips at 1:00. I need to run to the store this afternoon and plan to get yogurt and anything else you guys suggest. I have pecans and fruit here already.

Thanks again guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grouphug

[UDoWhat]

That picture... he looks extremely dehydrated!
...and malnorished. Glad you found TSB.

He does look malnourished in those pictures so please do not over feed him. Just like people who are malnourished you can not flood their systems with too much food. It can do more harm than good. Too much at once can kill him. Please go slowly with the amount you are feeding him. I would stick to the 5% of his body weight in this case at least until he is stable. If he is weak his body will not be able to handle large amounts of formula at each feeding. Smaller meals every 3 1/2 hours is better and safer with a malnourished baby. :Love_Icon

I know he may want more but in this weakened state his system is fragile. Do be careful with feeding too much at each feeding. 5% is a safer amount in this case at least for a few days. We are always tempted to feed these little malnourished ones too much.

[MollyBear361]

Are you making up a whole days batch of formula up on the morning and then pulling what you need and heating up? This makes sure it is all dissolved so he can digest it better. His poops are solid so that is a great thing!
Hang on Rocky! :Love_Icon

[Milo's Mom]

For this little one, personally, I would do smaller feedings more frequently. He is malnourished and the look of dehydration could also be from emaciation. (I am not saying he's not dehydrated - I am saying that it could also be emaciation).

His sparse fur points to malnourishment also.

When they get this malnourished they have a hard time keeping their blood sugar levels in line. When I get one in this condition (not saying I am right, just that this is what works for me) I feed every 3 hours and provide a very weak molasses/water mixture in between feedings. I do this for 24 to 36 hours round the clock.

The molasses water keeps the blood sugar levels up and gives the baby the extra push (sugar rush) to keep fighting to stay alive. It also provides them with extra hydration. They need the calories really bad, but I also need to keep them from crashing. In addition to the sugar the molasses provides tiny bits of other micro nutrients which are desperately needed. I would not give more than maybe 1cc of the molasses/water mixture.

As for bulking up the baby, right now I would stay with the current formula and add some full fat yogurt and heavy whipping cream (just a little bit at a time). Honestly, he needs more protein now than fat. The protein will help him rebuild what he's lost and the fat will come next. Also, make sure you are mixing the formula in advance and allowing it time to rest/stand before feeding.

If the in between molasses water feedings are done, I would not dilute the formula -- he needs the calories too badly.

Keep him warm at all times so he's not wasting calories on keeping himself warm.

He needs to remain as calm (sleep) as much as possible too. Movement and activity burns calories...he does not have extra right now.

I know it's hard and adrenaline is flowing but try to remember slow and steady wins the race. You've got a handful of experienced help here. No question is a dumb question...better to ask than be sorry for not asking.:thumbsup

[Nletchworth]

For this little one, personally, I would do smaller feedings more frequently. He is malnourished and the look of dehydration could also be from emaciation. (I am not saying he's not dehydrated - I am saying that it could also be emaciation).

His sparse fur points to malnourishment also.

When they get this malnourished they have a hard time keeping their blood sugar levels in line. When I get one in this condition (not saying I am right, just that this is what works for me) I feed every 3 hours and provide a very weak molasses/water mixture in between feedings. I do this for 24 to 36 hours round the clock.

The molasses water keeps the blood sugar levels up and gives the baby the extra push (sugar rush) to keep fighting to stay alive. It also provides them with extra hydration. They need the calories really bad, but I also need to keep them from crashing. In addition to the sugar the molasses provides tiny bits of other micro nutrients which are desperately needed. I would not give more than maybe 1cc of the molasses/water mixture.

As for bulking up the baby, right now I would stay with the current formula and add some full fat yogurt and heavy whipping cream (just a little bit at a time). Honestly, he needs more protein now than fat. The protein will help him rebuild what he's lost and the fat will come next. Also, make sure you are mixing the formula in advance and allowing it time to rest/stand before feeding.

If the in between molasses water feedings are done, I would not dilute the formula -- he needs the calories too badly.

Keep him warm at all times so he's not wasting calories on keeping himself warm.

He needs to remain as calm (sleep) as much as possible too. Movement and activity burns calories...he does not have extra right now.

I know it's hard and adrenaline is flowing but try to remember slow and steady wins the race. You've got a handful of experienced help here. No question is a dumb question...better to ask than be sorry for not asking.:thumbsup

I am mixing milk for the day, placing in fridge, and heating in microwave as I need it. Should I mix Pedialyte w it rather than water? I have clear non-flavored.

Ok, so can you tell me exactly how much molasses and water?

Also, how much yogurt/heavy crème to add to milk?

Lastly, keep antibiotic or stop it? I saw bubbles out the nose a few days ago. I have 2 babies (human babies) here at home so I used my little nose sucker and sucked some milk from his nose just last night.

[Nancy in New York]

Thanks for the reply!
I am feeding Esbilac powdered w pre and probiotics. Every 3-3.5 hours 2-2.5 CCs from a 2cc syringe and small eye dropper, no nipple.


Can you post a picture of your syringe.
Are you positive that you were feeding him the proper amount?
You know the syringe that you have for the meds, the 1 cc. you are doubling
that amount at every feeding?
This squirrel should not be in that condition if that is correct.
Either something is really "off" with him, or there is confusion with
the syringe.
I promise you, I am not laying blame, people get confused all the time, that's
what we are here for, to help you get your little Rocky healthy. :grouphug

[Nletchworth]

243639
Can you post a picture of your syringe.
Are you positive that you were feeding him the proper amount?
You know the syringe that you have for the meds, the 1 cc. you are doubling
that amount at every feeding?
This squirrel should not be in that condition if that is correct.
Either something is really "off" with him, or there is confusion with
the syringe.
I promise you, I am not laying blame, people get confused all the time, that's
what we are here for, to help you get your little Rocky healthy. :grouphug

[Nletchworth]

243640
243639

[Nletchworth]

243641

[Nletchworth]

Also, I was mixing the formula w Pedialyte not water. I just read on this forum that was BAD...ughhh...that is what the wild life rehab lady told me to do. Is that the issue?

Top pic shows what I am using now. I filled it 2.9 and fed slowly. Before, I would measure 2.5 and then place in a bowl and use the eye dropper to feed. He would usually suck it all out without me having to push. Schedule I was following was a 5 time a day feeding schedule.

I had him in a cardboard box w the nest. He is now in a plastic box w T shirts instead of the nest, still 1/2 on and 1/2 off heating pad.

[stepnstone]

I am mixing milk for the day, placing in fridge, and heating in microwave as I need it. Should I mix Pedialyte w it rather than water? I have clear non-flavored.


:nono No, you never mix hydration mixtures with formula.

[Nletchworth]

:nono No, you never mix hydration mixtures with formula.

This is how I have fed him from the day I got him. Is the causing the issue? The wild life rehab lady I called through Texas parks and wildlife told me to do it like that to prevent dehydration. That is why I always thought he could not be dehydrated. I mixed w plain water today and last night. I'm not even sure if the mix is correct now...1 part powder, 2 parts liquid. Right?

[Nancy in New York]

Also, I was mixing the formula w Pedialyte not water. I just read on this forum that was BAD...ughhh...that is what the wild life rehab lady told me to do. Is that the issue?


This could be the problem, I've heard it's counterproductive when mixed together.
SO he has been on pedialyte the whole time?

Does anyone think that Vital HN is a viable option?

What is that last thing you posted, the tube thing?

[Nancy in New York]

This is how I have fed him from the day I got him. Is the causing the issue? The wild life remand lady I called through Texas parks and wildlife told me to do it like that to prevent dehydration. That is why I always thought he could not be dehydrated. I mixed w plain water today and last night. I'm not even sure if the mix is correct now...1 part powder, 2 parts liquid. Right?

One part dry and two parts WATER. Mix this ahead of time, and let it sit in the refrig for at least 6 hours.
Try to make a days worth, the night before you feed. Put it in little containers if you have them and I even
freeze them. I take them out at night and put in the refrig. and it thaws by morning.

[MollyBear361]

Mix the formula with water not pedialyte. If your weight is correct then 5% is 2.14 cc every feeding. That would be qty 2 of your 1 cc syringe all the way up to the 1.0 mark plus .14 of a third syringe......between the .1 and .2 mark....is that what you're doing? I'm a little confused reading your post. Just checking your reading it right. I also will send another 1 cc and a 3 cc syringe with nipples.

[MollyBear361]

Also while you wait try to go today and get nipples from the vet....any vet...tell them you have a baby kitten and see if they have any you can put on a syringe.

[MollyBear361]

The salt in pedialyte starts dehydrating and works against them after 24 hours. This is why we ask so many questions......so we can see exactly what's going on.

[Milo's Mom]

I am mixing milk for the day, placing in fridge, and heating in microwave as I need it. Perfect!! :thumbsup



Should I mix Pedialyte w it rather than water? I have clear non-flavored.
No, you should never use pedialyte to mix formula. They serve different purposes and should be fed separately. And pedialyte should not be fed for more than 24 hours due to the high salt content. Too much salt will actually cause dehydration. Too much sugar will too and it could also cause runny poops.



Ok, so can you tell me exactly how much molasses and water? Before you go and do this, I'd like some of the others that are reading and providing advice to you to share their thoughts and opinions. This way we are all on the same page...making an group effort on an agreed upon course of action for you and Rocky. It will also be less confusing for you (and all of us).

But, if everyone agrees that this may help you want the molasses/water mixture to be the color of very light tea. Kind of like slightly discolored water. I use Black Strap Molasses so it's almost black. I mix it in a shot glass so it's like maybe 3 or 4 drops of molasses to a shot glass full of water.



Also, how much yogurt/heavy crème to add to milk?
Again, I'd like some of the others providing assistance to weigh in on this. It is best if we are making a joint effort. If everyone agrees, the amount to add would depend on how much formula you're making. Generally, how much formula do you make at a time?



Lastly, keep antibiotic or stop it? I saw bubbles out the nose a few days ago. I have 2 babies (human babies) here at home so I used my little nose sucker and sucked some milk from his nose just last night.
Please be careful when sucking stuff from his nose. I understand it has to be done, but if it's done with too much haste you could actually collapse a lung...suck the air right out of it. Most likely it won't happen, but it could, so just be careful.

Also, just because bubbles come out of the nose does not mean aspiration pneumonia. It does mean they got milk in their nose and they are blowing it out -- it does not always mean they inhaled it into their lungs. When this happens, tilt the baby head/nose down (toward the floor) and wipe his nose with something very absorbent (tissue/Kleenex or toilet paper work well). Keep wiping as long as you see formula coming out.

Since you don't have nipples yet and Rocky has done the bubbles a couple times now, I think I would keep him on the meds. I don't like using meds as a CYA (cover your butt) but he's got so much else going on right now, I don't think he'd make it if he presented with aspiration pneumonia.

Also, I forgot to mention previously, make sure that everything going into him (except the meds) is warm. If it not warm enough his body will spend precious calories warming it up and he doesn't have any to spare.

[Milo's Mom]

This could be the problem, I've heard it's counterproductive when mixed together.
SO he has been on pedialyte the whole time?

Does anyone think that Vital HN is a viable option?

What is that last thing you posted, the tube thing?

I did read the thread but in case I missed something, is Rocky seeming to have issues with digesting and/or poops? If not, I think maybe just sticking with the formula mixed correctly. BUT, I've only used/needed the VitalHN twice so my experience with it is very limited. :thinking

[SquirrelyDad]

Guys, this 4 week old looks NOTHING like 4 week olders I have seen! Do you think he is younger...or have I just starved him to this point? Geez, maybe I need to bring him to someone else. I feel like such a failure! I was doing exactly what the other site said to do. Thanks SO much guys for your help. I do not know what I would do w out your help!

I'm glad you're getting all the help for Rocky:grin2. I'm glad to read you're following directions from TSB. Don't feel like a failure you are doing your best to save him.
I also live in Houston. I have a 6wk old named "Nikko" that I found a week ago. I was also feeding him the incorrect way his formula. Preparing the formula and feeding it immediately to him, so he's had diarrhea :yuck for a few days. I'm waiting for his poop to improve today and tomorrow.

[UDoWhat]

I did read the thread but in case I missed something, is Rocky seeming to have issues with digesting and/or poops? If not, I think maybe just sticking with the formula mixed correctly. BUT, I've only used/needed the VitalHN twice so my experience with it is very limited. :thinking

Also limited on my use of Vital HN only twice in 13 years too. I am really worried to add too many other food sources. Diarrhea could be a killer here. I would stick with the formula... but have not used Vital HN all that much. Anyone else use it more often and with what kind of results????

Also.... Yes, as MollyBear wondered... It looks like you are using a 1cc/ml syringe. Is he getting at least 2 full syringes plus part of the 3rd syringe. He should be getting 2.5cc not 0.25cc . (or whatever is 5% -7% of his body weight-- didn't have time to go back and read the entire post.)

[Nletchworth]

Also limited on my use of Vital HN only twice in 13 years too. I am really worried to add too many other food sources. Diarrhea could be a killer here. I would stick with the formula... but have not used Vital HN all that much. Anyone else use it more often and with what kind of results????

Also.... Yes, as MollyBear wondered... It looks like you are using a 1cc/ml syringe. Is he getting at least 2 full syringes plus part of the 3rd syringe. He should be getting 2.5cc not 0.25cc . (or whatever is 5% -7% of his body weight-- didn't have time to go back and read the entire post.)


I am filling the syringe up two full times and part of a third. I did the 7% amount at the last feeding so it was 2.9 but I will now do 5%.

I am pre making the milk, but it does not sit 6 hours before feeding. I will get in there and make another batch so it sits longer. Some of my feedings, if I ran out, were mixed then fed right away. All feedings were always warm, and always had pedialyte instead of water until yesterday.

I did the molasses at 12:30. He is due to eat again at 2.

Also, no issues w poop or digestion. He poops fine, no runny stools yet.

The blue thing is a snot sucker for my baby. I didn't know what else to do, so I used it. I have not seen any bubbles since, but will be careful if I need to use it again. He has blown bubbles a few times since I had him. I always just stopped feeding and wiped. He was a pigger and would suck the milk out of that dropper like it was nobody's buisness! The past few days not anymore though. He is smacking today when I'm feeding him though so it really looks like he may be doing a tiny bit better.

I seriously don't know if he would be here if not for y'all's help! Thank you SO much!

[Nancy in New York]

I think the problem here is that he was fed formula mixed in his pedialyte for 4 weeks.
His kidneys have got to be compromised as is possibly his liver.

Can you get some milk thistle from a health food store, this may help the damage already done.

[Nancy in New York]

Written by Sara Rowe
http://www.squirreltales.org/
Rehydration and digestion are mutually exclusive processes; they cannot be achieved at the same time. When food and water are introduced to the stomach, the water in the stomach is not used for digestion: the stomach makes a demand on the cells of the body to give up fluids to digest the food; the cells will give up fluid no matter how little the body has at the time of demand, leaving the body further depleted. The water in the stomach is not absorbed until it reaches the small intestines, after the digestive demand has been made; what is absorbed then, is not enough to repair and refill, so a downward spiral ensues with each feeding: food causes digestive demand followed by more fluid depletion followed by more severe dehydration, ending in death in a few days if not immediately.

There is absolutely nothing gained and much damage done by combining rehydration fluids with formula in a feeding. This is a fairly common practice and is not rehydration. At the end of a rehydration period using electrolyte fluids, when body function has been restored, formula can be introduced with a large volume of plain water, not electrolyte fluids, to increase water reserves and allow the body to slowly adjust to the digestion of food once again. Without initial rehydration, you will have a thin, dry, grayish little mummy, too weak to lift its head, instead of a precious, fat, round, wet, pink baby. If you have already given formula, then stop immediately and start over with rehydration. Again, rehydration and digestion cannot take place at the same time so rehydration has to be accomplished before food is given.

Remember that rehydration is a temporary measure meant to address deficiencies and should not be continued indefinitely.

[Nletchworth]

I think the problem here is that he was fed formula mixed in his pedialyte for 4 weeks.
His kidneys have got to be compromised as is possibly his liver.

Can you get some milk thistle from a health food store, this may help the damage already done.


I can get this, but not until tomorrow. The closest one is over an hour away. I have a ton of health stuff on hand...but not that.

Do you think he can be saved?

[UDoWhat]

I am filling the syringe up two full times and part of a third. I did the 7% amount at the last feeding so it was 2.9 but I will now do 5%.

I am pre making the milk, but it does not sit 6 hours before feeding. I will get in there and make another batch so it sits longer. Some of my feedings, if I ran out, were mixed then fed right away. All feedings were always warm, and always had pedialyte instead of water until yesterday.

I did the molasses at 12:30. He is due to eat again at 2.

Also, no issues w poop or digestion. He poops fine, no runny stools yet.

The blue thing is a snot sucker for my baby. I didn't know what else to do, so I used it. I have not seen any bubbles since, but will be careful if I need to use it again. He has blown bubbles a few times since I had him. I always just stopped feeding and wiped. He was a pigger and would suck the milk out of that dropper like it was nobody's buisness! The past few days not anymore though. He is smacking today when I'm feeding him though so it really looks like he may be doing a tiny bit better.

I seriously don't know if he would be here if not for y'all's help! Thank you SO much!

:thumbsup Great... just making sure. You are doing great.
Yes NIN and Nletchwort, I think the problem is too much pedialyte. Squirrels are amazing with a strong will to survive. You can do it. :Love_Icon

[Milo's Mom]

Written by Sara Rowe
http://www.squirreltales.org/
Rehydration and digestion are mutually exclusive processes; they cannot be achieved at the same time. When food and water are introduced to the stomach, the water in the stomach is not used for digestion: the stomach makes a demand on the cells of the body to give up fluids to digest the food; the cells will give up fluid no matter how little the body has at the time of demand, leaving the body further depleted. The water in the stomach is not absorbed until it reaches the small intestines, after the digestive demand has been made; what is absorbed then, is not enough to repair and refill, so a downward spiral ensues with each feeding: food causes digestive demand followed by more fluid depletion followed by more severe dehydration, ending in death in a few days if not immediately.

There is absolutely nothing gained and much damage done by combining rehydration fluids with formula in a feeding. This is a fairly common practice and is not rehydration. At the end of a rehydration period using electrolyte fluids, when body function has been restored, formula can be introduced with a large volume of plain water, not electrolyte fluids, to increase water reserves and allow the body to slowly adjust to the digestion of food once again. Without initial rehydration, you will have a thin, dry, grayish little mummy, too weak to lift its head, instead of a precious, fat, round, wet, pink baby. If you have already given formula, then stop immediately and start over with rehydration. Again, rehydration and digestion cannot take place at the same time so rehydration has to be accomplished before food is given.

Remember that rehydration is a temporary measure meant to address deficiencies and should not be continued indefinitely.

Nancy this is awesome and should be a sticky! This is a question that comes up so many times every year and this is the best explanation I've ever seen. :thumbsup

[Nletchworth]

Nancy this is awesome and should be a sticky! This is a question that comes up so many times every year and this is the best explanation I've ever seen. :thumbsup



Now I'm confused! Should I be feeding or focusing on rehydration????

[CritterMom]

Aw, sweet baby...

No more pedialyte. You can very easily give additional hydration with JUST water or a mixture of a teaspoon of sugar and a cup of water.

When they are very hungry and when they get a little older and stronger, you no longer will be pressing on the end of the syringe plunger to squirt the formula into their mouth - on their own they can and will suck that syringe dry - and do it fast enough to choke themselves. You need to wrap a finger around the plunger and prevent them from doing that - you are in charge - you need to be the one determining the flow of milk. Mess around with holding they syringe in such a way that you can control the amount of milk flow - while keeping it in the proper nipple up plunger down position for feeding.

When you see bubbles: Some people just completely gross out when I tell them this but since I would crawl through broken glass for these little twirps, THIS seems tame! Immediately tip baby nose down, put your lips around his nose and mouth and suck. Unlike the baby suckers, you can FEEL exactly how hard you are doing it so there is no chance of accidentally hurting them. Yeah, yeah, squirrel snot, whatev...

As long as he is so very tiny and emaciated, he will do better being fed on the low side (5%) a little more often, and I would also be giving hydration in the form of water or water and sugar only in between these feedings at least until you go to bed tonight. Make sure you do lots of pee stimulating - we are trying to flush the salt out and pee is the way that happens.

Since this little one is so tiny, until you begin to see regular weight gain at each feeding, you need to just gut it out and get up at night to keep the feedings regular. Don't try to push him longer at night so you can sleep, at least not for a few days. And make sure he is kept nice and warm. I strongly suggest a rice buddy in addition to the heating pad - and the nice thing is that if they are on the heating pad they don't get completely cold. There is something about that shape - they want to hug them - and I think it helps their little orphan brains to have their sock mama... If you have never heard of one, get an old sock and fill it with enough dry, uncooked rice to make a fair sized lump - I usually do something about 3 times the size of the baby - tie it off and heat it in the microwave. How long depends on your micro - you need to test and see. When you get it out, mash it around to make sure there are no hot spots - if it is too hot, hold it out until it is right.

[MollyBear361]

Now I'm confused! Should I be feeding or focusing on rehydration????
Sorry I think everyone is just saying that what the wildlife person told you was wrong and a common issue. It's not your fault half the "experts" have no clue what they're doing. Keep with feeding and extra hydration in between as mentioned above. I fedexed you supplies.

[UDoWhat]

I would say focus on formula feeding and hydrate with plain water or water mixed with a tiny bit of apple juice if needed between feedings. He needs both ... I am guessing.

(BTW ,I would also like to see the rehydration/ hydration section of WBM written by Dr. Erica Miller, DVM posted too. Hydration/Rehydration is a specific calculation and takes 3-4 days to rehydrate as explained in that chapter in WBM.)

[Mommaluvy]

Yes he could be tenting. The extra water would not hurt him.

You have been doing a fine job.

I was also told by a Rehabber to not hydrate my guy with diarrhea for a month... Sounded ridiculous to me. In what world does plain water cause diarrhea? He would have been dead if I had taken that advise.

He is a cutie.

I think I used that same chart in combination withTsB advise . Mine never took as much formula as it suggested . My littles were not much bigger at that age.

Also .. I made soc siblings for my guy.. His 3 brothers were able to be reunited.. So I took baby socks from the dollar store and filled with rice. I did not heat them .. Just had the heating pad. But many a nap he spent under one or on top of one. He eventually got real siblings. I just did not want him to feel alone in the nest.

Keep up the good work the experts here won't steer ya wrong.

[stepnstone]

Do you think he can be saved?
It can be done...
We have seen worse turn around, stay positive! :grouphug

[Nletchworth]

243661
It can be done...
We have seen worse turn around, stay positive! :grouphug



243661


Don't want to mess anything else up for this critter! Rice buddy, too big, too small, just right?

[pappy1264]

Long before I knew what the heck I was doing, I made the same mistake (mixing pedialyte in with formula.) He was older when I got him then this little one, but I almost lost him. I agreed, milk thistle should be on board. I thought the same thing, about the vital HN, as he will get the calories, but his little body will not have to work to digest it as it would the formula. Poor little one. Praying very hard.

I would not use apple juice, just plain water, or if needed a tiny bit of molasses added to it.

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy this is awesome and should be a sticky! This is a question that comes up so many times every year and this is the best explanation I've ever seen. :thumbsup

I agree, it's easy to understand and to the point.
I also like what Annette wrote a few years back.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?40584-Rehydrating-a-squirrel

[Nletchworth]

I agree, it's easy to understand and to the point.
I also like what Annette wrote a few years back.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?40584-Rehydrating-a-squirrel

what is Vital HN and how/where do I get that?

Guys, I am not sure if this is wishful thinking but he looks better. Now, he is not like the other pics I have seen but he is holding my finger when I feed him now, moving his legs, and much, MUCH more alert!

New issue: soft stool...not sure what squirrel diarrhea looks like, but its not pellets anymore but rather like toothpaste. I assume from the amoxil.

I will get Milk Thistle tom. Is this drops? Any specific kind/brand I need to look for?

[MollyBear361]

I think if you add a tiny bit of full fat yogurt to his formula the pro biotic help with diarhhea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong to add too early. I also sent some Benibac you should get in the morning.

[pappy1264]

It may be from getting too much food (as much as he needs it). Perhaps as Milo's mom mentioned doing smaller amounts more often? I am sure he probably is feeling a bit better just from the changes you have made. Really slow, give fluids in between formula, just very small amounts, but to help hydrate him w/o diluting the formula (as it would if you fed it at the same time). How much are you feeding him now per feeding and how often?


http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/vital-hn.html

[Nletchworth]

I think if you add a tiny bit of full fat yogurt to his formula the pro biotic help with diarhhea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong to add too early. I also sent some Benibac you should get in the morning.


Benibac? What is that?

[Nletchworth]

It may be from getting too much food (as much as he needs it). Perhaps as Milo's mom mentioned doing smaller amounts more often? I am sure he probably is feeling a bit better just from the changes you have made. Really slow, give fluids in between formula, just very small amounts, but to help hydrate him w/o diluting the formula (as it would if you fed it at the same time). How much are you feeding him now per feeding and how often?


http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/vital-hn.html


I am giving 5% of body weight every 3 hours w watered down molasses between feeding at the 1.5 hour mark. Been faithful w it all day. He's also taking that Amoxil though and my vet had him on a too high dose...so maybe that?

[Nancy in New York]

I am giving 5% of body weight every 3 hours w watered down molasses between feeding at the 1.5 hour mark. Been faithful w it all day. He's also taking that Amoxil though and my vet had him on a too high dose...so maybe that?

I would suspect two doses that high did have an effect on him.
BUT does he really need the amoxi. If NOT, I would take him off,
why compromise his tummy more if it's not needed, right?
I suspect his little body just started giving out and shutting down.
You are doing fantastic!

[Nancy in New York]

I think if you add a tiny bit of full fat yogurt to his formula the pro biotic help with diarhhea. Someone correct me if I'm wrong to add too early. I also sent some Benibac you should get in the morning.

Thank you MollyBear for your thoughtfulness and generosity in sending supplies. You are a life saver.
I think for now, the simpler the better, and while the full fat yogurt is a great idea, I think
I would hold off until stabilized. I would also consider taking him off of the amoxi.

[Mommaluvy]

Benibac? What is that?

Benibac is short for benificial bacteria . It comes in a gel or powder .
You can feed the gel directly but its a real pain to clean the syringe afterward.

The pwder you add to the formula just before you feed .. You dont want it too hot though as that kills the bacteria. Imo if you have benibac you dont need the yogurt just yet.

And the sugar in the nolasses can be cauing loose poo too. Hopefully its too much food, sugar or amox.

You aslo asked about the vial hn .. I have no idea what that is.

[ALittleNutty]

I think adding the yogurt would be beneficial for the extra protein and the healthy bacteria. Also I would recommend heating water in a small bowl in the microwave and then putting the formula in a shot glass or other small dish to warm it in the hot water or you could pre-load the syringes with formula and put them in a zip lock baggie and place them in a cup of hot water.

[Nancy in New York]

I think adding the yogurt would be beneficial for the extra protein and the healthy bacteria. Also I would recommend heating water in a small bowl in the microwave and then putting the formula in a shot glass or other small dish to warm it in the hot water or you could pre-load the syringes with formula and put them in a zip lock baggie and place them in a cup of hot water.

I totally agree about the yogurt.
However since she has been on formula mixed with pedialyte for the past 4 weeks, I think for a few days, the less put in her the better, until she can stabilize a little. This had to have done a number on her little organs.
For now I would only recommend formula and water hydration in between. Give her a chance to recoup before adding other stuff.

[Nletchworth]

I totally agree about the yogurt.
However since she has been on formula mixed with pedialyte for the past 4 weeks, I think for a few days, the less put in her the better, until she can stabilize a little. This had to have done a number on her little organs.
For now I would only recommend formula and water hydration in between. Give her a chance to recoup before adding other stuff.

Ok, I won't add anything for now. Are you sure about stopping Amoxil? The improvements I'm seeing aren't from that but from correct nutrition? I will stop...just scared to.

[Nletchworth]

Also, rice buddy...done correctly?

[Nancy in New York]

Do you hear her clicking? Do you think that she has pneumonia?
Let me look for a thread here that talked about listening for pneumonia, I will post it after I find it.
Rice buddy!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect.
I'm sorry I forgot do you have her on a heating pad, under the container, set on LOW?

[Nancy in New York]

Also read the link that stepnstone mentions in his post.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47654-Aspiration-Pneumonia-Interesting-observation

[UDoWhat]

You are doing a great job with this little one. :Love_Icon Please be sure to stay on the 5% end of the feeding scale. As I mentioned today in earlier posts he cannot handle too much food in his compromised condition. Over feeding diarrhea could weaken him further.

[Nletchworth]

Do you hear her clicking? Do you think that she has pneumonia?
Let me look for a thread here that talked about listening for pneumonia, I will post it after I find it.
Rice buddy!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect.
I'm sorry I forgot do you have her on a heating pad, under the container, set on LOW?


Yes, plastic container, no longer card board, 1/2 on 1/2 off heating pad, set to LOW.

No clicking at all and it is not all in my head that he is doing better. My hubby said he looks WAY better already! He is moving his legs, holding his head up and is WAY more alert! I will weigh him in the AM and post an updated pic. It is really AMAZING. He still has the skin flap on the back of the neck, so still dehydrated...but we are I think moving in a better direction.

So...stop the Amoxil? You guys know better than me....

Can I stop Black Strap molasses/water between feedings just through over night so that I can sleep for more than 1.5 hours and just feed formula at the 3 hour mark through the night then pick those back up in the AM?

[island rehabber]

hi --- I've been lurking because you're in some of the best hands TSB has to offer. Poor Nancy probably had to go feed her own brood over there so I will go ahead and say yes, you can let the baby go 4 hours or so overnight without fluids so that YOU can get some sleep. Bless you for being so diligent about his care, now that you know how to save him. :)

[Chickenlegs]

It's wonderful to see your baby rellying. You are SUCH a good squirrel mommy! This is why TSB is here. It really does take a village to raise a baby squirrel :Love_Icon

[UDoWhat]

Long before I knew what the heck I was doing, I made the same mistake (mixing pedialyte in with formula.) He was older when I got him then this little one, but I almost lost him. I agreed, milk thistle should be on board. I thought the same thing, about the vital HN, as he will get the calories, but his little body will not have to work to digest it as it would the formula. Poor little one. Praying very hard.

I would not use apple juice, just plain water, or if needed a tiny bit of molasses added to it.

The apple juice was only to be mixed with the plain water... only a tiny drop or so for a teeny bit of flavoring. Not apple juice alone. This is just in case she would not take plain water.

You are doing a wonderful job with this little one. Thanks for caring for her. :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Good morning, just checking in on our little patient for an update. :)
Here are my thoughts and this was discussed by some other members as well.
Let's keep him on the amox. for another 5 days, at the lowered dose of .02.

Make sure that he is getting probiotics 2 hours prior or 2 hours after giving the
antibiotic. Please forgive me, did you tell me that you have children's probiotics in a capsule
form? If so, then just a tiny tiny pinch in his formula or water 2 hours before or after the ab.
will be fine. I have the probiotics here, and alone they have a "pleasant" taste, so he shouldn't
reject them even if they are in his water.

[Mommaluvy]

Molli bear sent benebac as well - she should get that today

[Nancy in New York]

Just wanted to pass along a little info received from a well respected member of our board.
This was a suggestion for another little squirrel.
This is why I always use the probiotic capsules.
Some swear by the benebac, but I'm just throwing this info. out there. :Love_Icon

"If I might make a small suggestion: I've heard from more than one very experienced rehabber that Bene-bac doesn't seem very effective; the little capsules of dry probiotic you can buy at the drugstore actually have a lot more cultures. Also digestive enzymes which you can buy in the same section OTC, I think one name is Prozyme. Again, I have it from one of TSB's best that this combo works wonders."

[Nletchworth]

Rocky made it through another night! Yipppeeee! He has also gained weight and is now 45.8 g. I adjusted food amount to 2.3. I gave Amoxil this AM after reading these recent post and I used a tad of probiotic I have here for my son.

The only issue now that he still appears dehydrated, but it may just be he is still so skinny. Picture here

But he has terrible runny stools! It is dark like molasses and about as runny. Should I continue w molasses water between feedings today?

In regard to digestive enzymes..I have them on hand. However, I'm Leary of them bc when I given them to my son, he gets loose stool.


243688

243689

[CritterMom]

For as long as he has diarrhea, he needs to be hydrated with water between his feedings. See if he is agreeable to taking just water with no added anything.

This will not work if he has something actually wrong with him but it may help tighten things up. Give him about 2 drops of pepto bismol. Give him about 6 hours and if you are not seeing any tightening up of the stool, give him 2 more and assess again in another 6 hours.

Once the pepto makes it's way through his system, his poops will turn black - it is the pepto, so don't freak out.

[MollyBear361]

How's Rocky? Have you tried the miracle nipple yet? I had three releases awhile back. When I first got them I didn't have nipples. It took them a little while to want to use the nipple bc they were used to the end of a syringe so keep trying if it takes awhile. Just be sure to hold the end of the plunger bc they can create quite a suction and as pirate themselves. You want to regulate him. Suck. Stop. Let him swallow.Suck again. It may be a little slow at first til you get used to it.

[MollyBear361]

Worried now......

[Nancy in New York]

Worried now......

:thinking I am praying too.
Hopefully she is just catching up on her sleep. :dono

[UDoWhat]

Praying for this little one. Has anyone heard ?????:Love_Icon:Love_Icon Very worried.

[Nancy in New York]

Praying for this little one. Has anyone heard ?????:Love_Icon:Love_Icon Very worried.

Only this morning. :dono

[SquirrelyDad]

Hi Nicole:

How is Rocky doing? We are all getting worried.......:dono

[Nletchworth]

Sorry guys! Today was crazy! My work laptop crashed, daughter had gymnastics, all on top of rocky duty. I got the care package this afternoon. We started the nipple w his 6 pm feeding and he seems to really like it. It really makes feeding so much easier! Thanks SO much for sending it!

He is doing great. Still have the soft stool so he poops on me every time I touch him, but it's all good. I'm used to being pooped on, lol. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old.

Should he be walking at all at this stage cause he isn't. He is moving his legs more when I feed him, but other than that, he just sleeps. Is this what he should be doing?

[Nancy in New York]

Sorry guys! Today was crazy! My work laptop crashed, daughter had gymnastics, all on top of rocky duty. I got the care package this afternoon. We started the nipple w his 6 pm feeding and he seems to really like it. It really makes feeding so much easier! Thanks SO much for sending it!

He is doing great. Still have the soft stool so he poops on me every time I touch him, but it's all good. I'm used to being pooped on, lol. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old.

Should he be walking at all at this stage cause he isn't. He is moving his legs more when I feed him, but other than that, he just sleeps. Is this what he should be doing?

Next time check in. :tap Just kidding of course, I'm so relieved.
I think that if you continue as you are doing, and Rocky progresses
you will slowly see him doing what little squirrels should be doing at this age.
When I tell you that I honestly think he was at death's door, I'm serious.
He is still critical and we cannot rush his recovery.
Slow, steady and we are keeping it simple for now.
If the soft stools get worse, we may rethink giving him something.
For now we want his little system uncluttered with too much "stuff".
You are doing absolutely amazing! :Love_Icon

[MollyBear361]

I know I told you in PM about the blocks...but since he's not active it may be best to wait for those....if all he does is sleep he won't eat them anyway.
Anyone have recommendation on benebac? Package says for newborns under one pound use .25 to .5 gram a day. Use on days 1, 3, 5, 7.

[Nancy in New York]

I know I told you in PM about the blocks...but since he's not active it may be best to wait for those....if all he does is sleep he won't eat them anyway.
Anyone have recommendation on benebac? Package says for newborns under one pound use .25 to .5 gram a day. Use on days 1, 3, 5, 7.

I suggested that she give probiotics in the formula.
It's a capsule that you pull apart and add just a small pinch and it's suppose to be better than benebac.


Just wanted to pass along a little info received from a well respected member of our board.
This was a suggestion for another little squirrel.
This is why I always use the probiotic capsules.
Some swear by the benebac, but I'm just throwing this info. out there. :Love_Icon

"If I might make a small suggestion: I've heard from more than one very experienced rehabber that Bene-bac doesn't seem very effective; the little capsules of dry probiotic you can buy at the drugstore actually have a lot more cultures. Also digestive enzymes which you can buy in the same section OTC, I think one name is Prozyme. Again, I have it from one of TSB's best that this combo works wonders."

[Nletchworth]

Ok guys...so I am traveling to my families house tomorrow. We have four hours in the car. I plan to bring him along. I got a power inverter to plug the heating pad in during the trip. Think he will be ok?

Nancy, the stools are like molasses. Dark and watery. It's gross! I gave powdered probiotic this am two hours after feeding. I'll give another dose at 2 am when I feed cause he had Amoxil at last feeding.

[Nletchworth]

:
Next time check in. :tap Just kidding of course, I'm so relieved.
I think that if you continue as you are doing, and Rocky progresses
you will slowly see him doing what little squirrels should be doing at this age.
When I tell you that I honestly think he was at death's door, I'm serious.
He is still critical and we cannot rush his recovery.
Slow, steady and we are keeping it simple for now.
If the soft stools get worse, we may rethink giving him something.
For now we want his little system uncluttered with too much "stuff".
You are doing absolutely amazing! :Love_Icon

:grin3 I sure will check in, lol. I agree, I think had I not found you guys, he would have already passed. Think the loose stool is from Amoxil or damage from the pedialyte?

[Nancy in New York]

:

:grin3 I sure will check in, lol. I agree, I think had I not found you guys, he would have already passed. Think the loose stool is from Amoxil or damage from the pedialyte?

I think/hope that when given a couple more days, and perhaps even tomorrow, you will start to see a difference.
Since this basically started when dosed the Amoxi. I am leaning more towards the large doses of that being the problem right now.
Perhaps it just has to work itself out of his little system.

[kotagirl72]

I can send you some Fox Valley formula. I was feeding mine esbilac and they were doing so so. I put them on FV and its made a huge difference. My little boy was touch and go but now he's gaining weight and very active. It's higher fat and lower protein. Your little Rocky is adorable and is a fighter.

[pappy1264]

Was so worried, so glad to see an update. Just keep doing as you have been, this is very likely from those very high doses of amoxy. As far as moving, it will take a while, he has a lot of catching up to do, but he will, just as Nancy said, slow and steady. Safe travels.

[Nancy in New York]

If the watery stool kept up through the night, and this morning, give him 0.05 mls of Imodium A-D.
You can give again later (8-12 hours) the same amount. Do NOT exceed 4 doses.

[pappy1264]

Nancy, remember all we went through with Bean and diarrhea? I know it was not from meds but it was very bad. Finally adding the probiotics, as you stated, is what finally worked on her. I think in a day or so to start adding it, if it isn't getting better. His little body has been through so much. Such a little fighter!

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy, remember all we went through with Bean and diarrhea? I know it was not from meds but it was very bad. Finally adding the probiotics, as you stated, is what finally worked on her. I think in a day or so to start adding it, if it isn't getting better. His little body has been through so much. Such a little fighter!

He's on probiotics already since he is on antibiotics. :thumbsup

[UDoWhat]

I can send you some Fox Valley formula. I was feeding mine esbilac and they were doing so so. I put them on FV and its made a huge difference. My little boy was touch and go but now he's gaining weight and very active. It's higher fat and lower protein. Your little Rocky is adorable and is a fighter.

Great suggestion BUT this little one is so sick and compromised I would not switch or add anything at this time... please. Also some of our little ones are having trouble digesting FV. We are all not sure why but we have lost many sick and even not sick littles to FV. Some do just fine but some die. I wish we knew why. Please others let me know what you think. Because this baby may very likely have organ damage we need to just stay steady on a narrow course of action. I would not go over 5% of his body weight or even less. Diarrhea can kill this very sick little boy. Even if only caused by the Amoxi. If it combines with too much and too many changes... :eek His condition is very serious, however, he is improving slowly. (So thankful to hear this news). He should be handled with extreme care. He may only eat and sleep for a week or at least a few days until he can gain strength. Sleep is how the body heals and gains strength. Keep us posted.:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Great suggestion BUT this little one is so sick and compromised I would not switch or add anything at this time... please. Also some of our little ones are having trouble digesting FV. We are all not sure why but we have lost many sick and even not sick littles to FV. Some do just fine but some die. I wish we knew why. Please others let me know what you think. Because this baby may very likely have organ damage we need to just stay steady on a narrow course of action. I would not go over 5% of his body weight or even less. Diarrhea can kill this very sick little boy. Even if only caused by the Amoxi. If it combines with too much and too many changes... :eek His condition is very serious, however, he is improving slowly. (So thankful to hear this news). He should be handled with extreme care. He may only eat and sleep for a week or at least a few days until he can gain strength. Sleep is how the body heals and gains strength. Keep us posted.:Love_Icon

Spot on! I so hate that he has to make a 4 hour car ride.
Remember to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate as this
can cause dehydration in itself.
For whatever reason, long periods in cars causes dehydration.

[island rehabber]

Spot on! I so hate that he has to make a 4 hour car ride.
Remember to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate as this
can cause dehydration in itself.
For whatever reason, long periods in cars cause dehydration.

YES!! Cannot stress this enough, especially for a critical boy like this little one.

I would prepare hydrating solution -- whatever he likes, that you've been using all along -- and offer some to him EVERY HOUR. Put it in a thermos to keep it warm. Even if he only takes 2cc, that's fine. He can't be allowed to 'dry up' like babies do on long trips -- it could kill him. Make sure the heating pad is not too high or that the container he's in doesn't heat up too much. Years and years ago, I 'cooked' two little pinkies I was transporting in the car -- I put a Snuggle Disk under them, and put them in a large tote bag. There was not enough air circulating and it got too hot....they were both dead after only an hour. I will never forgive myself -- you won't either, so be careful.

[Mommaluvy]

.
Anyone have recommendation on benebac? Package says for newborns under one pound use .25 to .5 gram a day. Use on days 1, 3, 5, 7.


My vet said 1 gram every day. but it was a 70 gram ish squirrel. And he had been on abx for coccidia for several weeks. ( first albon them SMZ)


I also would advise in my limited knowledge to not change formula at this time. And if you do go to FV stay away from the 32/40 formula.

DITTO on the hydration in the car .. this is VERY important. even when not traveling. BTDT this season. Its amazing how fast these little guys can crash. Scary fast.

Keep up the good work.

[Nletchworth]

Ok guys I want to take him off the Amoxil. I really don't think that he has pneumonia. The stools are still loose and I think he lost some weight! I will say I had a super hard time weighing him yesterday bc he is now moving SO much. I went and got a little bowl for my scale and today he is 44.3.

My computer crashed that I had his previous weights on but I think he was 44.8 when I started, 45.8 yesterday, and now this. The weight loss scares me. Your thoughts?

[MollyBear361]

42.8 Tuesday, 45.8 yesterday according to your previous posts.

[Nletchworth]

42.8 Tuesday, 45.8 yesterday according to your previous posts.

Ok that makes me feel a little better. Yesterday he was really active on the scale, so idk....I guess I'll wait and c tomorrow and give Amoxil today.

[redwuff]

The weight loss is scary and also the fact that he is not gaining several gs/day. Go slow, can't worry about the loss cos that is behind you, but work on the now.

Is there anyone that has experience that this little baby can go to for awhile until he gets out of the critical place he is now?

Trysh

[Nletchworth]

Is there anyone that has experience that this little baby can go to for awhile until he gets out of the critical place he is now?

Trysh


No. In fact, when I found him, I called every Texas Parks and Wildlife rescue person within 2 hours of here bc there are NONE in my county. Instead of getting ANY help, I got "lectured" about how it is illegal for me to have him and I need to let him sit outside in the dirt for the mom to come back...blah blah blah!

Then, when I fillnaly found someone to talk to me, I was told to give pedalyte w the formula which is how we got here to begin with.

No disrespect, but at this point, I am not giving him to anyone else. I have gotten up through the night w him every 3 hours and nursed him from death's door to this...I be darn if I am going to give him to a stranger and run the risk of them killing him. Sorry! :tap

[stepnstone]

Ok guys I want to take him off the Amoxil. I really don't think that he has pneumonia.

You admitted baby blew bubbles several times even to a point once where
you felt it necessary to suction his nose. Aspiration pneumonia does not
always present itself with clear symptoms.
We have discussed the amoxy in triage and arrived at this conclusion;
Maybe the amoxy is not needed, but what if it has been needed and actually
started to help and responsible for the slight improvement. And what if we
do stop it and cause baby to back slide. Is he going to be strong enough for
a second shot at it? One really has to consider all the risks and weigh them
carefully with such a compromised little.
I know it presents a rock and a hard place when your dealing with diarrhea
but keeping him on the amoxy for a full term is probably in his best interest.

[stepnstone]

No disrespect, but at this point, I am not giving him to anyone else. I have gotten up through the night w him every 3 hours and nursed him from death's door to this...I be darn if I am going to give him to a stranger and run the risk of them killing him. Sorry! :tap

Trust me, that was an innocent suggestion,
no one is trying to take him from you but I
love the strong attitude! Just what this baby needs! :grouphug

[Nancy in New York]

When redwuff asked if there was "anyone"........I can guarantee that by anyone she meant a trusted member who would give him back. I think she was asking it, more or less directed to the board, since we have a lot of trusted Texas members.
There is NO doubt in my mind she would NOT want you to give him to a stranger. :nono

Great post stepnstone!

[MollyBear361]

Doesn't he have just two more days of amox? I think people are leaning on the safe side to finish his dose.......but I understand the diarrhea is scary. Have you tried anything for the diarrhea yet? He needs TONS of hydration.

[TubeDriver]

You admitted baby blew bubbles several times even to a point once where
you felt it necessary to suction his nose. Aspiration pneumonia does not
always present itself with clear symptoms.
We have discussed the amoxy in triage and arrived at this conclusion;
Maybe the amoxy is not needed, but what if it has been needed and actually
started to help and responsible for the slight improvement. And what if we
do stop it and cause baby to back slide. Is he going to be strong enough for
a second shot at it? One really has to consider all the risks and weigh them
carefully with such a compromised little.
I know it presents a rock and a hard place when your dealing with diarrhea
but keeping him on the amoxy for a full term is probably in his best interest.

I have no real baby experience but I think this makes the most sense to me. He is on amoxy, only a few more days and he will be finished with the correct course?

If he does have asp. pneumonia and the AB is stopped, he will probably not survive the time it takes to identify the symptoms and then restart him on ABs. Even if you remove him from the AB now, it will take a day or two at least for his stomach to recover.

I think slow and steady (as UDowhat stated above) is what is needed. 5% or less food, he probably can't tolerate more. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Keep him warm and let him sleep, sleep, sleep.

He is slowly moving in the right direction, I would not rock the boat with any changes or risk a step back (that the probably can't survive).

Good job working with him, getting help and expertise and sticking with him! :thumbsup

[redwuff]

No. In fact, when I found him, I called every Texas Parks and Wildlife rescue person within 2 hours of here bc there are NONE in my county. Instead of getting ANY help, I got "lectured" about how it is illegal for me to have him and I need to let him sit outside in the dirt for the mom to come back...blah blah blah!

Then, when I fillnaly found someone to talk to me, I was told to give pedalyte w the formula which is how we got here to begin with.

No disrespect, but at this point, I am not giving him to anyone else. I have gotten up through the night w him every 3 hours and nursed him from death's door to this...I be darn if I am going to give him to a stranger and run the risk of them killing him. Sorry! :tap



It is an awful dilemma when it is so hard to find the correct information to help a baby survive from a wee little one. Believe me, most of us here started out in that place.

Your dedication has been nothing but stellar. I would never think of taking a baby away from anyone, but sometimes it really helps to move them over the hump and out of the critical place when the baby is in the care of someone more experienced. It can be tough to diagnose from pictures and the information given. Many people on this board have done just that, taken the baby for a little while and then they go back to the finder. So please don't think my opinion is that you are lacking at all. This baby is just in a tough way. You have given 150%.

[UDoWhat]

When redwuff asked if there was "anyone"........I can guarantee that by anyone she meant a trusted member who would give him back. I think she was asking it, more or less directed to the board, since we have a lot of trusted Texas members.
There is NO doubt in my mind she would NOT want you to give him to a stranger. :nono

Great post stepnstone!

She absolutely meant anyone from TSB. No doubt at all.
This is a critically sick baby. Not just or only an emaciated, malnourished, dehydrated baby. If this was a human baby it might likely be in a pediatric ICU, and due to possible kidney failure, a human baby might even be on kidney dialysis due to the long term use of pedialyte and possible kidney damage. My comparison is just to let you know how sick this baby is. He was a deaths door. Hopefully he can be turned around. Our collective cautions are only out of concern for you and this precious baby. You are doing a great job. :thumbsup Please do not take offense ... we all are trying to help. :Love_Icon :grouphug :Love_Icon

[Mommaluvy]

I think your doing well.

I would finish the amox.
treat the possible pneumonia first. Maybe he has it .. Maybe he do'nt . But if he did and you stop treatment it can come back.

[MollyBear361]

Seriously, no harm was meant. TSB members have helped in the past and the baby can go back to the finder when they are well. Of course this applies to Experienced TSB members. I'm not an expert by any means, but was going to offer to keep him for a week or two mostly because I have vet access. However, my husband would have killed me, my house is full with Jill, Winston, and my flyers.....two of which have been very naughty and gave me a surprise little package with four paws this week, and I wasn't sure Rockys mommy was going to give him up......and Rocky's mommy has been very diligent in following directions and asking for advice. I'm not sure we have anyone with a lot of experience close to Rocky other than the Skuls who have their hands full. I think Rocky's mom is doing a great job. Especially considering her own litter of humans.
Noone has mentioned trying to subq Rocky? Although I'm not sure she has access of her vet friend won't help. But, a vet tech can do this as well. Or is this too stressful right now?
It is also helpful for us if you can take pics every day so we can see progress.....you look at him all day long so may not notice subtle changes (good and or bad) we can see from one day to the next. Also, I know this sounds crazy....poo picks....seriously. ..

[MollyBear361]

May I ask what town you are traveling to? Even just for the sake of seeing if we have a licensed rehabber or experienced member of TSB in that area that can take a peek at him? Eyes are better than pics.

[Nletchworth]

May I ask what town you are traveling to? Even just for the sake of seeing if we have a licensed rehabber or experienced member of TSB in that area that can take a peek at him? Eyes are better than pics.

Trip was canceled, so no worries about car ride.

I will finish the Amoxil.

As for hydration, I am giving 1 CC of molasses water and or formula every hour to hour and a half. Anymore, and he will need an iv.

Feeding schedule for today
Formula 8:00
Water w molasses 9:30
Formula 11:00
Water w molasses 12:30
Formula 2:00
Water w molasses 3:30
Formula 5:00
Water w molasses 6:30
Formula 8:00
Water w molasses 9:30
Formula 11:00
Formula 2:00 am
Formula 5:00 am
Formula 8:00 am

I appreciate all the help. I just wanted to know if I should stop Amoxil. It seems you guys think I shouldn't, so I won't.

[TubeDriver]

:thumbsup




Trip was canceled, so no worries about car ride.

I will finish the Amoxil.


I appreciate all the help. I just wanted to know if I should stop Amoxil. It seems you guys think I shouldn't, so I won't.

[MollyBear361]

:thumbsup

Trip was canceled, so no worries about car ride.

I will finish the Amoxil.

As for hydration, I am giving 1 CC of molasses water and or formula every hour to hour and a half. Anymore, and he will need an iv.

Feeding schedule for today
Formula 8:00
Water w molasses 9:30
Formula 11:00
Water w molasses 12:30
Formula 2:00
Water w molasses 3:30
Formula 5:00
Water w molasses 6:30
Formula 8:00
Water w molasses 9:30
Formula 11:00
Formula 2:00 am
Formula 5:00 am
Formula 8:00 am

I appreciate all the help. I just wanted to know if I should stop Amoxil. It seems you guys think I shouldn't, so I won't.

[Milo's Mom]

Could you slowly reduce the amount of molasses in the water to eventually get him to plain water? Reduce it slowly though, so he does not refuse the plain water.

Remember what I said the other day about sugar cause messy poops. They need the sugar to keep from crashing but too much sugar can cause problems too. It's a very fine line between the two.

You are doing an awesome job. Keep your chin up girl!!!:grouphug


EDIT: Just out of curiosity, when you first wake up in the morning after only doing formula feedings overnight, does his poop seem even the slightest bit firmer or is it the same as all day long?

[Mommaluvy]

If it makes you feel any better I basically cancelled everything I could while Chryso had the runs. I went to church and that was about it for a month. LOL.. People looked at me funny and I am sure our scout leader is kinda mad at me but.. LOL :grouphug

Your schedule looks good. How many more days of the Amox does he have and do you know the strength of it?

[Mommaluvy]

Could you slowly reduce the amount of molasses in the water to eventually get him to plain water? Reduce it slowly though, so he does not refuse the plain water.

Remember what I said the other day about sugar cause messy poops. They need the sugar to keep from crashing but too much sugar can cause problems too. It's a very fine line between the two.

You are doing an awesome job. Keep your chin up girl!!!:grouphug


EDIT: Just out of curiosity, when you first wake up in the morning after only doing formula feedings overnight, does his poop seem even the slightest bit firmer or is it the same as all day long?


Ditto that sugar may not help matters. And good question!

[Nletchworth]

Could you slowly reduce the amount of molasses in the water to eventually get him to plain water? Reduce it slowly though, so he does not refuse the plain water.

Remember what I said the other day about sugar cause messy poops. They need the sugar to keep from crashing but too much sugar can cause problems too. It's a very fine line between the two.

You are doing an awesome job. Keep your chin up girl!!!:grouphug


EDIT: Just out of curiosity, when you first wake up in the morning after only doing formula feedings overnight, does his poop seem even the slightest bit firmer or is it the same as all day long?


There are SO many tips being shared w me that I can't remember who told me to use the Molassas. I just know it was told to me to make it the color of tea bc he needs the nutrients in it. I can stop it if that is what I need to do. Stools are soft even at night. We have 2 more days of amoxil. 2 doses tomorrow, 1 on sat would be 5 days of 2 doses a day. Thanks for the hug...I kind of need it. I'm starting to feel overwhelmed.

On a ++++++++++++ note, he really is doing well other than the runs. He is moving all over his nest and is really moving all over making bathroom time quite a chore! I was cleaning his little leg and he fussed at me today and this AM when I woke up to feed him at 8, he nipped my finger! I have the cubes in the nest and he is fiddling w them. I see a HUGE difference!!!!

[Milo's Mom]

There are SO many tips being shared w me that I can't remember who told me to use the Molassas. I just know it was told to me to make it the color of tea bc he needs the nutrients in it. I can stop it if that is what I need to do. Stools are soft even at night. We have 2 more days of amoxil. 2 doses tomorrow, 1 on sat would be 5 days of 2 doses a day. Thanks for the hug...I kind of need it. I'm starting to feel overwhelmed.

On a ++++++++++++ note, he really is doing well other than the runs. He is moving all over his nest and is really moving all over making bathroom time quite a chore! I was cleaning his little leg and he fussed at me today and this AM when I woke up to feed him at 8, he nipped my finger! I have the cubes in the nest and he is fiddling w them. I see a HUGE difference!!!!


I suggested the molasses.

I know there are many tips and ideas and suggestions coming your way and I understand it can be confusing. We are all trying to help, but it gets confusing.

Try to back down on the molasses. Like by tomorrow at this time he should be on plain water (try to aim for that).

The reason I suggested the molasses was to keep his blood sugar levels up and if he was in the process of crashing (giving up and dying) the sugar would give him a boost. Just like a Coke does for us...know what I mean?

Now that he is more active and you are seeing a marked difference it's time to back him off the sugar. Too much sugar will cause runny poops and it can even cause dehydration.

[Nletchworth]

I suggested the molasses.

I know there are many tips and ideas and suggestions coming your way and I understand it can be confusing. We are all trying to help, but it gets confusing.

Try to back down on the molasses. Like by tomorrow at this time he should be on plain water (try to aim for that).

The reason I suggested the molasses was to keep his blood sugar levels up and if he was in the process of crashing (giving up and dying) the sugar would give him a boost. Just like a Coke does for us...know what I mean?

Now that he is more active and you are seeing a marked difference it's time to back him off the sugar. Too much sugar will cause runny poops and it can even cause dehydration.

Ok, got it. :grin2

[kotagirl72]

:hug Great to read that Rocky is doing better. I know I was scared when my little boy was not active like the girls and sick. Can't wait to see some updated pics of Rocky. :grin3

I just thought of something that had made one of mine sick. I used tap (City Water) to mix the formula. The chlorine had made him sick so now I stick with bottled water.

Anyone else have experience with the chlorine in city water with their little ones?

[redwuff]

I see a HUGE difference!!!!

:thumbsupWay to go! :grouphug

Trysh

[stepnstone]

I see a HUGE difference!!!!

:tap...:camera..:flash.

:worthless

[sid'smommy]

I see that no one has commented on microwaving the formula. I always did for my kids, but didn't for the squirrels.. (mainly because it was a much smaller amount and easy to over-heat) ... I have been studying a lot on milk and dairy products, as I have been recently diagnosed with a milk allergy.. (as well as pretty much everything else in my fridge..ugh) Anyway, the main protein and vitamin source in milk is in the casein... which is the one that I am allergic to. So, because milk is in almost all processed foods.... Im trying to figure out why I am not dead yet. .... I read that casein proteins are broken down in the heating process, therefore, causing no allergic reaction. No, we don't heat the formula to such a temperature that would break it down... however, microwaves heat differently.... the center can heat up quickly, and when mixing with the colder areas, it comes out just right... but were some of the vital nutrients broken down in the area that got really hot ?? I wouldn't chance it with a compromised baby... just wondering if anybody else has studied this... ? By the way, Rocky is adorable... glad he found you... you are doing great! :Love_Icon

[Nletchworth]

Morning weigh in 46.3

Thoughts on increasing food to 7% rather than 5? He seems to want more when I'm done feeding

All sugar gone from water. First stool this AM was somewhat harder, then. Went right back to water again. I really think it's the Amoxil. He has three more doses so we shall see....

[pappy1264]

I would stay with the 5% a little while longer. Then maybe in a day, go up to 6%.

[redwuff]

I would stay with the 5% a little while longer. Then maybe in a day, go up to 6%.

Nicole, I promise that your little boy will gain weight on 5% formula. Get him over the diahrea and finish off the meds first before thinkiing of feeding him any more than 5%. Overfeeding WILL cause diahrea and this boys body is still learning what to do with food. He still is in a starvation mode. Please START LOW AND GO SLOW. So glad that he is moving upward with his weight. Once he is over the diahrea, he will increase his wt gain.

You are doing great.

Trysh

[stepnstone]

Thinking about the two of you. :grouphug

[Nletchworth]

Rocky is doing great! He is moving around the nest and really getting mobile. Runny stools are gone and we did the last dose of Amoxil today. I have a question though. How far should I allow the nipple to go into the mouth when he is eating? He has been taking almost the whole thing in and I thought I saw blood.....it's a miracle nipple.

[stepnstone]

Rocky is doing great! He is moving around the nest and really getting mobile. Runny stools are gone and we did the last dose of Amoxil today. I have a question though. How far should I allow the nipple to go into the mouth when he is eating? He has been taking almost the whole thing in and I thought I saw blood.....it's a miracle nipple.

That's great to hear Rocky is doing good, things have cleared
up and all is looking up! Good job! :dance

Some babies really do deep throat the nipples, as long as they are not gagging
themselves on it or the formula no harm. Seeing the tinge of blood when nursing
is not unusual either if that's all it is, especially if they are being anxious about it.
Sometimes it can relate to teething and biting the tongue.

[Nancy in New York]

I agree with stepnstone, and I suspect that the blood will be seen no more than two days if that.
I bet he is getting new toofies in. :thumbsup

[MollyBear361]

We want pictures!!!!:poke

[RobinTN]

We want pictures!!!!:poke

:yeahthat LOL Hi :wave123 I've been :lurking lurking... You've done such a fantastic job with :Love_IconRocky:Love_Icon That's one LUCKY squirrel to have such a dedicated Squammy:serene
Way to go!!!! :grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Mommaluvy]

Rocky is doing great! He is moving around the nest and really getting mobile. Runny stools are gone and we did the last dose of Amoxil today. I have a question though. How far should I allow the nipple to go into the mouth when he is eating? He has been taking almost the whole thing in and I thought I saw blood.....it's a miracle nipple.



I have had two that bit themselves when nursing a couple tmes . Scared me to death.

[Nletchworth]

Weighed in this am at 51.5

Blood gone. It was minimal. I'll let him take the nipple deep. I just not sure if it was ok.

244045

[TubeDriver]

Nicole, I promise that your little boy will gain weight on 5% formula. Get him over the diahrea and finish off the meds first before thinkiing of feeding him any more than 5%. Overfeeding WILL cause diahrea and this boys body is still learning what to do with food. He still is in a starvation mode. Please START LOW AND GO SLOW. So glad that he is moving upward with his weight. Once he is over the diahrea, he will increase his wt gain.

You are doing great.

Trysh

:goodpost

Slow and steady progress is what you want. It sounds like he is getting over the hump (no diarrhea, eating, increased activity).:thumbsup

[MollyBear361]

What a big belly! :grin3

[SquirrelyDad]

YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!.....:thumbsup

[Nletchworth]

Hey guys. We are up to 4ccs of formula. My syringe is only 3 CCs. Where can I get either a larger one or more of these o ring type syringes. They don't stick like the ones I was getting at cvs.

[farrelli]

5-6 weeks? You probably shouldn't got above 3cc. Here is where you can order some. It's flat shipping, so you should probably also order some blocks because he's getting to that age. You can just stick them in the freezer for now.

http://www.henryspets.com/syringes-and-nipples/

[Milo's Mom]

Henry's sells syringes.

http://henryspets.com/syringes-and-nipples/

EDIT: I do not think it is a good idea to use a larger syringe. Just use more of the same size.

[Nancy in New York]

Please don't go higher than a 3 cc syringe.
I always fill up my syringes with formula, put the nipples on and place them in
a glass of HOT water. This way they stay warm and the babies don't have to wait for
me to refill.
If the water cools off, just refill with hot water again.

[MollyBear361]

You can also pull out the plunger and put a tiny bit of vegetable oil on the oring to make it slide better. Just be careful its only a tiny bit. You don't want him ingesting the oil.

[Nletchworth]

Hi all,
I am not sure if this is the right place to now post about Rockie but I feel such a bond w the folks on this board bc you all helped save him so I did not want to post on non emergency and take the chance of losing touch with this specific group of individuals.

Update: Rockie is doing GREAT! He is at 74.5 g and is up to 4.8 CC of milk. I am now giving him 7% of his body weight and he is such a little pig that I promise if I would offer more, he would take it! I have put blocks in his cage but honestly, he doesn't even want anything to do w them. I did order more syringes and I did get 9 of the 3 CC ones coming. I will just fill as much as he needs and have it ready to go. He is so squirmy that filling the one I have multiple times has gotten to be hard. I am scared I will drop him!

I have a few questions so that I know I am continuing on the right track as he grows.

1. How often should I be feeding now. I am still doing every 3 hours but have stopped night wake ups. Is this ok?
2. Yogurt, how much and how often and is flavored ok? I could only get strawberry in the full fat variety.
3. Water, do I put a water bottle in the cage or give water via syringe? If I give it, how much & how often?
4. weighing him...OMG how do you all weigh your babies?!! He is SO not having that so it has gotten really hard! He is all over the place and will NOT be still.
5. Can I handle him? He is so sweet and I love to hold him, but it that a good idea?
6. Solids- anything other than the blocks at this point? When do I give nuts etc?

Thanks guys again for all you helped me to do for him! I can't believe we saved him! I am so glad I found you all. :serene

[redwuff]

Hi all,
I am not sure if this is the right place to now post about Rockie but I feel such a bond w the folks on this board bc you all helped save him so I did not want to post on non emergency and take the chance of losing touch with this specific group of individuals.

Update: Rockie is doing GREAT! He is at 74.5 g and is up to 4.8 CC of milk. I am now giving him 7% of his body weight and he is such a little pig that I promise if I would offer more, he would take it! I have put blocks in his cage but honestly, he doesn't even want anything to do w them. I did order more syringes and I did get 9 of the 3 CC ones coming. I will just fill as much as he needs and have it ready to go. He is so squirmy that filling the one I have multiple times has gotten to be hard. I am scared I will drop him!

I have a few questions so that I know I am continuing on the right track as he grows.

1. How often should I be feeding now. I am still doing every 3 hours but have stopped night wake ups. Is this ok?
2. Yogurt, how much and how often and is flavored ok? I could only get strawberry in the full fat variety.
3. Water, do I put a water bottle in the cage or give water via syringe? If I give it, how much & how often?
4. weighing him...OMG how do you all weigh your babies?!! He is SO not having that so it has gotten really hard! He is all over the place and will NOT be still.
5. Can I handle him? He is so sweet and I love to hold him, but it that a good idea?
6. Solids- anything other than the blocks at this point? When do I give nuts etc?

Thanks guys again for all you helped me to do for him! I can't believe we saved him! I am so glad I found you all. :serene

This thread needs pictures!!!! What wonderful news.:bliss:bliss

He needs to be fed 5 times throughout the day, so that is every 4 hours. Glad to hear that you are getting sleep at night.:grin2

How old is Rocky? You can put a water bottle in his cage but he does not need it until he is eating block. The block is very drying. He needs to have block in his cage when his teeth start coming in or even before and then he will learn that it is a food source he can go to when his nippie is not there. HHB's and Mazuri are great block for him to start on. NO NUTS until he is eating block very well.

Yea, weighing can be a challenge if you do not have the right stuff. I use a container that I can put the lid on (air holes in it) but zero out the container before I weigh. I will take a picture of it later and post it for you to see.
Sounds like Rocky is an energetic boy. What a relief. Good job.

What are your plans for Rocky. He probably needs to be overwintered, but how I feed all my little guys is that when their eyes open I start putting block (I use Mazuri) in with them. I do not give anything else for him to eat than block. I do not even put veggies in until they eat block very well. Feeding these guys and getting them to eat what is good for them is our hardest challenge. I fed my first squirrel the whole nut routine. Then getting her switched around to a healthy diet was painful to both of us. And it took a long time to convince her that she wanted to eat anything else than nuts. I will never have that happen again.

I am so happy to hear how well your little man is doing.

Trysh

[kotagirl72]

Rocky is looking great. You're doing a great job. I hold mine as much as possible in a fleece to keep them warm and they love to snuggle. Filling syringe has become difficult here too. I try to keep something in one hand to distract them but it doesn't always work and my arms along with hands looks like I use it as a pin cushion. Weighing them is a chore. I put them back on the scale and keep trying to keep them still .
:grin2

[RobinTN]

I'm a bit of a :newb myself, but I can answer your #5 on handling, as I researched this for my own situation.:grin2 No matter what your plans for Rockie, be it releasing him in the spring or keeping him as a pet or anything in between... handling is GOOD. They need the contact, comfort, and affection. Since Rockie is a singleton, he doesn't have his squirrly brothers & sisters to cuddle, romp, & play with, so that's gonna be another aspect of your job:bliss:grin3 Do make sure he has a stuffee or two he can wrestle & cuddle with when you're not around. Squirrels are very social, esp when young. In the wild, youngsters that don't have family members (mom or sibs) often end up "rooming" with a friend. If you do intend on releasing him, just follow the procedure for soft release and Rockie will easily "wild up":thumbsup It seems that squirrels are extremely adaptable when it comes to humans: they accept our help and affection when they need it, and then when it's time for them to go be wild they easily go live their outdoor squirrly lives.:serene

Good luck, and thanks for keeping us posted! :Love_IconRockie:Love_Icon

[Nletchworth]

I'd like to keep him, if he will let us keep him. He is not doing much w the block. I have two kinds in his cage, he is not doing much w it at all though. Here is a recent pic. Can you guys tell me yogurt, how much and how often and is strawberry ok? The only full fat version I found was stoneyfield baby yogurt.244582

244583

[SammysMom]

Oh goodness, he is adorable! Stonyfield baby is perfect. Any kind that he likes.:Love_Icon

[Nletchworth]

Oh goodness, he is adorable! Stonyfield baby is perfect. Any kind that he likes.:Love_Icon


Thanks. How much do I give and do I mix it w his milk?

[SammysMom]

You can add it to his formula or you can offer it on a spoon. Many like it enough to just lap it off of a spoon.:thumbsup

[Nletchworth]

You can add it to his formula or you can offer it on a spoon. Many like it enough to just lap it off of a spoon.:thumbsup

Ok, will do. How much and how many times a day?

[MollyBear361]

OMG! That doesn't even look like the same squirrel! Go Rocky!:serene

[SammysMom]

Not really any set amount so go ahead and just add a bit in. Maybe 1 part yogurt to 3 parts formula?

[Nancy in New York]

Well you did one heck of a job in a little under 2 weeks!
What a difference this is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bowdown


http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-LbP8LXg/0/S/i-LbP8LXg-S.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing-2/n-GmzqZ/i-LbP8LXg/A)http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-6z2GnL6/0/S/i-6z2GnL6-S.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing-2/n-GmzqZ/i-6z2GnL6/A)

http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-fwHWXTx/0/S/i-fwHWXTx-S.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing-2/n-GmzqZ/i-fwHWXTx/A)http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/photos/i-7sX5V5v/0/S/i-7sX5V5v-S.jpg (http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TSB-resizing-2/n-GmzqZ/i-7sX5V5v/A)

[SammysMom]

WOW!!! She really doesn't look like the same baby... Awesome job!!! :fireworks

[stepnstone]

Well you did one heck of a job in a little under 2 weeks!


:yeahthat:beerchug

[RobinTN]

You can add it to his formula or you can offer it on a spoon. Many like it enough to just lap it off of a spoon.:thumbsup

I give Cassie & Sly the Stoneyfield vanilla a couple times a week, they think it's the best thing EVER:multi:multi

I just give it now in a shallow bowl. What made me laugh so hard reading that about the spoon was remembering the 1st time I gave any. It was before I got Sly, so it was just Miss Cass, who's spoiled absolutely ROTTEN anyway:grin3
She'd been on my shoulder watching as I opened the pouch & poured it in the spoon. I wasn't quite ready to give it to her - still had the pouch uncapped in one hand, spoon in the other - but when the smell hit her it didn't matter! Cass decided ready or not she was getting it NOW, not in a minute, but right then! So she was like a little grey blur down my arm, face first straight down in this spoon full of yogurt :rotfl She came right back up sneezing little droplets of the stuff all over us:rofl4 then dove right back in! I swear I think she must've held her breath for the entire 10 or 15 seconds it took her to polish off that spoon full of yogurt!:rotfl:rofl4:rotfl:donoIDK maybe you had to be there, but whew, I just got a helluva belly laugh remembering that:grin3 Talk about filthy... the entire squirrel was sticky afterwards. As badly as she hates her wipee baths, that was one time not even THAT bothered her... she was too busy licking yogurt off her toes!!!

[farrelli]

Did you get the Henry;s blocks? They usually don;t really eat them at first, just chew. Soon he'll probably prefer them to the formula. He will have to eat them eventually though, if he's to be healthy.

[TubeDriver]

Rocky looks great!:thumbsup.

:bliss


Super job!


What a sweet looking face!

[SquirrelyDad]

:thumbsup You did a great job with him!!:grin2
Does not look like the same :Squirrel.

Nikko's Mom