View Full Version : Opinions Needed Malocclusion Possible Neuro and NR Need To Re-Home
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 10:24 AM
Ya'll know from my nursery forum "Eight Is Enough", that Little Louise came in with severe bruising to her head and jaw.
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Eyes closed but one sibling opened eyes yesterday. While her siblings are in the mid 80's in grams she is only 48 grams. I am feeding the new Esbilac with heavy cream added every 3 hours. She has always had trouble eating and it takes nearly 20 minutes just to feed her. She fights the nipple constantly. She doesn't appear to like to be touched and arches her back. She is often off by herself in the cooler part of the container but occasionally I find her curled up with the other three. She will settle down after feeding and sleep in my hand but I think it's simply that she has worn herself out. I have to burrito her in order to feed.
Here are the pics of her this morning. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can tell me whether she might overcome the teeth issues. Due to the teeth and possible neuro issues she is probably going to be NR and if so I am going to need to find someone to take her. I am in an illegal state and due to traveling a lot during winter months I will not be able to keep her and offer her the care that she is surely going to need. She has stolen my :Love_Icon but I know that she is going to need more than I can provide.
Any help with this is greatly appreciated.
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Fireweed
09-12-2014, 01:00 PM
I am no expert. But seems to me you'll likely need someone to take her through the winter and possibly forever if you can't give an NR enough time. She's going to need teeth trimmings at a vet or possibly by the new Squeep for awhile, at least. Possibly forever. It looks like she may even need a trimming right now. Do those teeth touch the roof or side of her mouth? That could be causing some pain if they are scraping or puncturing the gums.
There's likely neuro issues and maybe even other things going on. Poor baby. But *maybe* with a tooth trimming she'll eat a little better? :dono What about adding ultra boost? Also, probiotics might be a good idea, too. One of the more experienced members will hopefully have a say...
Do you think she's in pain at all? The arching of the back, not liking to be touched, moving off heat, etc. That might be more than just neuro issues.
I hope someone versed in baby malocclusion will pop in, too. I have to trim my squirrel's teeth every week - but I've never had to deal with such a young baby with this problem. :(
So, giving this a BUMP! :grin3
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 01:13 PM
I am no expert. But seems to me you'll likely need someone to take her through the winter and possibly forever if you can't give an NR enough time. She's going to need teeth trimmings at a vet or possibly by the new Squeep for awhile, at least. Possibly forever. It looks like she may even need a trimming right now. Do those teeth touch the roof or side of her mouth? That could be causing some pain if they are scraping or puncturing the gums.
There's likely neuro issues and maybe even other things going on. Poor baby. But *maybe* with a tooth trimming she'll eat a little better? :dono What about adding ultra boost? Also, probiotics might be a good idea, too. One of the more experienced members will hopefully have a say...
Do you think she's in pain at all? The arching of the back, not liking to be touched, moving off heat, etc. That might be more than just neuro issues.
I hope someone versed in baby malocclusion will pop in, too. I have to trim my squirrel's teeth every week - but I've never had to deal with such a young baby with this problem. :(
So, giving this a BUMP! :grin3
I don't think they are touching her roof or cheek but I will try and get a better look in a bit. She doesn't seem to be in pain or at least not all the time. Most times I find her sleeping on her side and even her back sometimes.
Yes, I am going to need someone to take her that can give her what she needs. I feel like she would do best where she won't have to be moved around a lot. We travel every year for at least 3 weeks during the winter and although the flyers handle it fine I just don't see it being good for her. Plus being in an illegal state and traveling through others is just too much of a risk.
I have never trimmed teeth and "knock on wood" I haven't had any rescues that needed anything other than basic care until release time.
She is on the Esbilac with pro-biotics and cream but I could easily add in the yogurt if you think she needs the extra. I haven't had any potty issues with her. I'll have to order the UB.
:thankyou for the :bump
I just want to make the best decision for Louise and want to give her a chance at life if at all possible.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 01:32 PM
Good to hear you find her on her back sometimes. At least she's somewhat comfy. :Love_Icon
Yeah, she's got the probiotics with the Esbilac. :thumbsup
Just trying to BUMP this thing! :grin
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 01:44 PM
Good to hear you find her on her back sometimes. At least she's somewhat comfy. :Love_Icon
Yeah, she's got the probiotics with the Esbilac. :thumbsup
Just trying to BUMP this thing! :grin
I so appreciate the help Fireweed. I am way in over my head with this little one. She's in a bonding bag right now and is sacked out.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 01:52 PM
I just directed a couple rehabbers here. Hey, where are you located?
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 01:56 PM
I just directed a couple rehabbers here. Hey, where are you located?
Thanks, Coastal Mississippi.
Nancy in New York
09-12-2014, 02:17 PM
Thank you fireweed. I will look into this after feeding.
The only advice that I have is that if you keep the trimming up,
they may have a chance of correcting themselves while they are still young.
I will read the complete thread sometime later.
Does she have top teeth yet? I can't see any from the picture.
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Nancy, I don't think so but I will double check just to be sure. Edited:Not yet, but it feels like they are just about to break through. Bottom teeth are angled about 45 degrees.
Mommaluvy
09-12-2014, 02:34 PM
:eek yeah ... Even the newby here saw that angle ! :newb
Mommaluvy
09-12-2014, 02:36 PM
Could the whole lower jaw be misaligned? Broken? Dislocated?
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 02:37 PM
:eek yeah ... Even the newby here saw that angle ! :newb
Yeah, I was like :eek:eek:eek.
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 02:42 PM
Could the whole lower jaw be misaligned? Broken? Dislocated?
I don't think it's dislocated but misaligned is a possibility. That's why I posted several pics to get some opinions. She does work it but it's side to side at times. She will suck once you finally get her latched on to the nipple. She could have broken it during the fall. I really didn't get any history of what happened to them but two of the three had head bruising.
island rehabber
09-12-2014, 02:50 PM
I just got FW's alert (:thankyou:tilt) but am running to a 3pm appt -- this does look like a bad malocclusion situation. Will post more when I get home.
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 02:52 PM
I just got FW's alert (:thankyou:tilt) but am running to a 3pm appt -- this does look like a bad malocclusion situation. Will post more when I get home.
Thanks IR!
island rehabber
09-12-2014, 05:09 PM
I'm thinking you definitely need to get those lowers trimmed down. If they keep growing while her uppers aren't even broken thru yet, they are going to go right into her sinuses :(. Are you willing to trim them yourself? We have some good pix and video about it here somewhere.....
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 05:12 PM
I'm thinking you definitely need to get those lowers trimmed down. If they keep growing while her uppers aren't even broken thru yet, they are going to go right into her sinuses :(. Are you willing to trim them yourself? We have some good pix and video about it here somewhere.....
I can try. I don't have a squirrel friendly vet. Sucks being in an illegal state! As tiny as she is what do you recommend to use to trim them? It's a struggle just to get a toothpick in there to look at them.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 06:42 PM
It's stressful - and I hate that anyone has to do it - but if you have no vet or experienced rehabber to go to, you're on your own. :(
I know there are other recommendations for cutting tools on this board but I use the ones from Chris'. Use at your own risk :tilt: http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/rehab-supplies/squirrel-rehab-supplies/chris-favorite-teeth-cutters.html
If you do use these make absolutely sure you cut with the correct side facing the gumline!
I think it would be easier with a baby because you might not need two people to hold them.
You could use a tiny dowel (or similar) to keep her mouth open. I would actually just hold her mouth open with one finger (even if only from the side) and her bottom lip down with my thumb (or something like that-whatever works for you). If at all possible, slip a finger or dowel-like object behind the teeth.
I put their back feet up against something while I do it (my chest, in my case) - that helps them stay calm longer, I think. She is small enough you could rest her in the palm of your hand.
You can burrito her, too. Although, I have found with my squirrels if I burrito them they are harder to control than if I don't. :dono
Others more experienced will have recommendations for tools and good ideas, I hope!
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 06:50 PM
It's stressful - and I hate that anyone has to do it - but if you have no vet or experienced rehabber to go to, you're on your own. :(
I know there are other recommendations for cutting tools on this board but I use the ones from Chris'. Use at your own risk :tilt: http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/rehab-supplies/squirrel-rehab-supplies/chris-favorite-teeth-cutters.html
If you do use these make absolutely sure you cut with the correct side facing the gumline!
I think it would be easier with a baby because you might not need two people to hold them.
You could use a tiny dowel (or similar) to keep her mouth open. I would actually just hold her mouth open with one finger (even if only from the side) and her bottom lip down with my thumb (or something like that-whatever works for you).
I put their back feet up against something while I do it (my chest, in my case) - that helps them stay calm longer, I think.
You can burrito her, too. Although, I have found with my squirrels if I burrito them they are harder to control than if I don't. :dono
Others more experienced will have recommendations for tools and good ideas, I hope!
Thanks! I just saw an article showing a wrapped paperclip to use for holding her mouth open. It looks like it might allow a little more room to "operate". http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-hermance/this-baby-squirrel-landed_b_5791862.html
Hopefully there might be someone willing to open their heart and home to this little sweetie soon. A Florida member would be great since I could meet them close to the FL/AL line or even around Navarre and she would be going to a safe state.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 07:04 PM
That paper clip idea is a great one! I'm gonna try it out. Though so far I have found that the less in the mouth, the easier - especially when the teeth are so small. It all goes much quicker when you don't have to worry about getting something else in there, and the squirrel doesn't freak out as much, in my experience. But then you have to be extra careful about not clipping a lip. Pros and cons. :tilt I'm sure you'll find what works best for you and your squee.
Good luck!
Why don't you start a thread with NR needs home and FL/AL/MS in the title?
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 07:07 PM
That paper clip idea is a great one! I'm gonna try it out. Though so far I have found that the less in the mouth, the easier - especially when the teeth are so small. It all goes much quicker when you don't have to worry about getting something else in there, and the squirrel doesn't freak out as much, in my experience. But then you have to be extra careful about not clipping a lip. Pros and cons. :tilt I'm sure you'll find what works best for you and your squee.
Good luck!
Why don't you start a thread with NR needs home and FL/AL/MS in the title?
Thanks, that was my thinking too. I guess as soon as I can get the clippers and some xanex (for me) I'll try to clip her. While I wait I am going to work with her on letting me check her mouth so she will be used to it.
I'll start a new thread.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 07:20 PM
I guess as soon as I can get the clippers and some xanex (for me) I'll try to clip her.
LOL! Trust me, you'll need it. :carzy2
Good idea about getting her used to you first - and you can plan out what you'll do when you see what calms her and what makes her more squirmy. See how she'll react if you slip your finger behind her teeth, too. Maybe even play with the clip idea (or dowel etc) to see what might work. By the time you are ready to trim, she might be totally used to the whole procedure.
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 07:28 PM
LOL! Trust me, you'll need it. :carzy2
Good idea about getting her used to you first - and you can plan out what you'll do when you see what calms her and what makes her more squirmy. See how she'll react if you slip your finger behind her teeth, too. Maybe even play with the clip idea (or dowel etc) to see what might work. By the time you are ready to trim, she might be totally used to the whole procedure.
Yeah, reading how others that do it are still scared every time is not a big confidence builder. :eek
She's only 48 grams so even my pinkie finger is huge compared to her mouth. So far I have manage to get a toothpick in to try and get a better look.
I started the new thread so hopefully someone with a big :Love_Icon will step up and take on this sweetie. I know I am asking a lot but there is just no way I can see being able to care for a NR up to the standards and stability that she is probably going to need.
Fireweed
09-12-2014, 07:39 PM
Yeah, reading how others that do it are still scared every time is not a big confidence builder. :eek
:rotfl Yeah, sorry, it's still scary. Maybe after the 100th time it'll get easier.
It's just nothing to take lightly since so much can go wrong... :shakehead
She's only 48 grams so even my pinkie finger is huge compared to her mouth. So far I have manage to get a toothpick in to try and get a better look.
I was thinking - you might have to use some kind of clip or toothpick because of the angle of those teeth. I don't know if it's just the picture but they look like they angle to the back of her throat, too. :thinking
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 07:47 PM
:rotfl Yeah, sorry, it's still scary. Maybe after the 100th time it'll get easier.
It's just nothing to take lightly since so much can go wrong... :shakehead
I was thinking - you might have to use some kind of clip or toothpick because of the angle of those teeth. I don't know if it's just the picture but they look like they angle to the back of her throat, too. :thinking
Yeah, I know and I am scared but I know that's not going to help her. I'll try and get another pic and then more input before I actually attempt cutting her teeth.
lilidukes
09-12-2014, 10:38 PM
you can try a 0.5cc or 1cc syringe behind the teeth to trim.
My first time a friend talked me through it over the phone.
Her final words to me were "put me on speaker phone, and
suck it up hold your breath and do it" And so I did. I promise
you the first time is the hardest. I have three NR's now who all
have different clipping schedules so I have to keep a calender
just for them so I don't forget. I can have them out of their
cages trimmed and back in less than 2 minutes if I'm in a
hurry. I make no fuss over doing it with them. Trim, a kiss on
their nose and back in their cage they go. I never just let
them go play afterwards because I don't want them to start
struggling with me to play rather than get their teeth done.
I wish you good luck:grouphug
ALittleNutty
09-12-2014, 10:50 PM
Thanks Lilidukes. I have to get something to trim them with first but I will let everyone know how it goes.
Chickenlegs
09-13-2014, 12:50 AM
What a sweet baby. I wish I was in a position to take her. I even have vet care but right not I have way too many squirrels that I'll be driving with and don't want so many cages they'd draw suspicion from a state patrolman.
Rhapsody
09-13-2014, 03:00 AM
I was just looking at pics of this little girl (((hugs)) --my heart string were pulling at me and I said I cant I cant --I am off my feet for 2 to 3 months from foot surgery and I am needing help with the few babies I have..... how can I take care of special needs one on top of the special little Apollo I already have? Wow...... life sure is tough at times.
:grouphug :Love_Icon:Love_Icon :hug :Love_Icon:Love_Icon :grouphug
ALittleNutty
09-13-2014, 07:23 AM
I was just looking at pics of this little girl (((hugs)) --my heart string were pulling at me and I said I cant I cant --I am off my feet for 2 to 3 months from foot surgery and I am needing help with the few babies I have..... how can I take care of special needs one on top of the special little Apollo I already have? Wow...... life sure is tough at times.
:grouphug :Love_Icon:Love_Icon :hug :Love_Icon:Love_Icon :grouphug
Thanks Rhapsody. You worry about getting well for your other babies, they need you to get well soon. :grouphug
ALittleNutty
09-15-2014, 10:50 AM
Just wanted to update that Little Louise will be meeting her new squammy, Czarina on Thursday. I am excited she will be going to such a wonderful new home with vet access so hopefully the teeth situation will be resolved.
I am 99% sure she is going to be NR so it's great she has found a furever home. She is most likely deaf and appears to have no real "orientation". She slithers on her sides or rolls to relocate herself in the container. All her limbs work fine and she is strong but I do think the fall has caused lots of neuro issues. I hope and pray in time she will over come but I am fully confident that if not she is going to be a big cuddle bug and spoiled absolutely rotten.
Looking forward to meeting Czarina in person. I have only met 2 other members so this will be great to put a face with the name.
Thanks for all the offers of help and please keep this little one in your thoughts. Czarina can't figure out how to post pics from her phone but I think we can work it out where she can send them to me and I will post them on the thread I am sure she will start for this next chapter in Little Louise's life.
DarkLies212
09-15-2014, 10:53 AM
She's going to be an amazing Squamma to Louise!! :dance:dance
Thank you Czarina!! :hug And thank you ALittleNutty for doing everything you can to find the best home for this sweet girl :hug :clap
ALittleNutty
09-15-2014, 11:13 AM
Thanks DarkLies. It's a little hard to give her up but it's easier knowing she will have the care she needs and it's what's best for her and that is all that matters. We decided to go ahead and make the exchange as soon as we could so she could adjust better since her eyes should be opening any time now.
I never got into this work thinking of having a "pet" (flyers are an exception :grin3), but rather just be a substitute mommy and brief stop on their way to the trees. I am blessed to be able to release on our property so I still get to enjoy them being the wild creatures they were meant to be.
ALittleNutty
09-18-2014, 10:40 PM
I met up with Czarina the evening and she picked up Little Louise, Ruby, Thelma and J.D. It was very nice to put a face with the name and meet another member in person.
Little Louise is eating a little better and she started opening one eye just slightly this morning. I guess she was excited about her trip. Ruby is going to be Louise's buddy to help her adjust. She's also got the tough job of helping Churtle figure out how to be a squirrel so they can both be released in the spring. Thelma and J.D. are going to one of Czarina's friends until release time.
Already missing them so much. I went to feed and started pulling out the regular amount instead of just enough for Oak and Ash. I guess it's going to take a little getting used to.
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