Loose poop this morning.

[beezle-weezle]

Lennie woke up with loose poop this morning. It is not runny just mushy and it smells. It is lighter color than usual so I am thinking I need to extend the time between feedings; but what is up with the smell? Can over eating cause poop to smell? or is something more serious going on?

[Monipenny]

What are you feeding and how much and how often? How many grams does Lenny weigh?

Some background information is helpful in determining the problem.

[Rhapsody]

Remember to feed squirrels at 5-7% of body weight --how often you feed depends on the squirrels age.
Please tell use what formula you are using and how much your squirrel weighs atm. Thank you.

[beezle-weezle]

The right esbilac. she weighs 135 grs and is eating 6% (8ccs) every 4 hrs. except at night she goes 6 hrs. Was thinking of moving her to 5 or 5 and a half hours during the day and 7 hours at night. Just not sure if the smell is coming from over eating. It isn't strong and it smells like poop but her poop usually has no smell.

[Rhapsody]

The right esbilac. she weighs 135 grs and is eating 6% (8ccs) every 4 hrs. except at night she goes 6 hrs. Was thinking of moving her to 5 or 5 and a half hours during the day and 7 hours at night. Just not sure if the smell is coming from over eating. It isn't strong and it smells like poop but her poop usually has no smell.

How old is she?
I would move her over to feeding every 5 hours during the day.
........ and skip the night feeding as usual.

[beezle-weezle]

How old is she?
I would move her over to feeding every 5 hours during the day.
........ and skip the night feeding as usual.

will be 6 weeks in a couple days. Should I be worried about the smell?

[Rhapsody]

will be 6 weeks in a couple days. Should I be worried about the smell?
Lets change the feeding over to every 5 hours for a few days and see what happens.
If the strong smell is still there on Monday let us know - OK!! (or if it gets worse)

[Mikey]

Lennie woke up with loose poop this morning. It is not runny just mushy and it smells. It is lighter color than usual so I am thinking I need to extend the time between feedings; but what is up with the smell? Can over eating cause poop to smell? or is something more serious going on?

Poor lennie, ive noticed especially that young no matter WHAT formula u are feeding them, they will at sum point have loose poo's. When mine got diapoo's, i picked up sum organic live culture baby yogurt frm stonyfield, it helped! Plus adding a lil more water to their mix of formula, try it , plus they love tha yogurt taste :)

[beezle-weezle]

And now it is worse! When I changed her to 5 hr feedings her poops started firming up. Yesterday they went back to loose and today it is just runny. I don't know what is causing it. She is eating 6% but still seems hungry. I do not want to give her anymore with the runs. The boys are eating the same formula and their poops are fine. Lennie is still playing and running around, eating well and no clicking. She doesn't seem sick at all just runny poop.

[Milo's Mom]

Do you have any Fox Valley 20/50 or UltraBoost?

The reason I'm asking...over the past couple days to maybe a week and a half I think I've been noticing a trend (across the board not with you specifically). To be sure I'd have to go back and find all the poop threads and I just don't have time to do that. BUT, the trend that I think I've been seeing is that SOME babies seem to do very well on the new Esbilac until 5-8 weeks of age, then they suddenly get the runny poops. I believe the babies that are on a mix of Esbilac and FV are having less of an issue, but to be positive I'd have to go back and look.

So, I'm wondering if maybe switching to FV 20/50 would change the poops to normal. Or possibly adding UltraBoost to the Esbilac, which some members have had good luck with. Or at least going to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and FV. (all of this would be done gradually over the course of several feedings)

Again, this is a trend I think I've been noticing but I do not have the time to go back to search out all the threads to substantiate my thoughts. The formula may have nothing to do with your case of runny poops, or maybe it does.

Do the poops still smell? Are they still like toothpaste or are they liquid? Are they yellow, light yellow, or green? Have you noticed any tinge of red or blood?

[beezle-weezle]

Do you have any Fox Valley 20/50 or UltraBoost?

The reason I'm asking...over the past couple days to maybe a week and a half I think I've been noticing a trend (across the board not with you specifically). To be sure I'd have to go back and find all the poop threads and I just don't have time to do that. BUT, the trend that I think I've been seeing is that SOME babies seem to do very well on the new Esbilac until 5-8 weeks of age, then they suddenly get the runny poops. I believe the babies that are on a mix of Esbilac and FV are having less of an issue, but to be positive I'd have to go back and look.

So, I'm wondering if maybe switching to FV 20/50 would change the poops to normal. Or possibly adding UltraBoost to the Esbilac, which some members have had good luck with. Or at least going to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and FV. (all of this would be done gradually over the course of several feedings)

Again, this is a trend I think I've been noticing but I do not have the time to go back to search out all the threads to substantiate my thoughts. The formula may have nothing to do with your case of runny poops, or maybe it does.

Do the poops still smell? Are they still like toothpaste or are they liquid? Are they yellow, light yellow, or green? Have you noticed any tinge of red or blood?

I do not have FV or ultra boost but will get whatever I need to help her. Poops still smell but not as bad as they did. They are Yellow and liquid at this point. No blood or streaking.

[Mommaluvy]

Try adding canned pumpkin.

Are the boys that are normal her age?

How long have you had. Lennie? How LNG has the loose poos been going on?

Do you have SMZ TMP ? Mine came in yesterday but I had already gotten some from my vet. I can send you some pills jus in case.. That was if you need it a week from now you will have it. I AM NOT SAYING YOU NEED IT .. BUT...

And yes it's possible to have squirrels in the same cage with an illness and only some or none get sick. I would however minimize their exposure by separating the sick one .

I had 6 - two got terribly ill. Two got only mildly ill and two never got sick at all.

Does it have a smell.. Can you describe it ? Can you post a picture of it?

[Mommaluvy]

And now it is worse! When I changed her to 5 hr feedings her poops started firming up. Yesterday they went back to loose and today it is just runny. I don't know what is causing it. She is eating 6% but still seems hungry. I do not want to give her anymore with the runs. The boys are eating the same formula and their poops are fine. Lennie is still playing and running around, eating well and no clicking. She doesn't seem sick at all just runny poop.

Also try going to just 5% every 5 hours.
With or without the canned pumpkin.

I had been over feeding my girl Tiny Squealer .. At 6% ( fox valley) I took her down to 5% formula and pulled up a smidge of water in the syringe to fool her into thinking it was 6%. I also added crammed pumpkin cause I panicked ( I HAVE ONE THAT HAS HAD THE RUNS FOR A MONTH - different thread) and was afraid she was finally getting the illness mine had . But she was not.

Anyhow.. Try 5% at every five hours. If she has the runs the added water should not hurt her IMO if you want to try fooling her into the added water. And every squee is different.. It's possible that 6% is too much for her but not for the others.

If that does not fix it in 12/24 I would try adding pumpkin.. If that does not work and by Wednesday she still has the runs ( making it a week from the date of the OP) I would go to meds. This has been a horrible experience for me .. And after a week one of mine was pooping blood... But with the help of my vet and TSB ... Even my sickest is improving after some weaker medication.. And now on stronger stuff. If this ever happens to me again I will not let it go that long again. I can not believe mine are still alive.

I would use SMZ TMP and if that doesn't work maybe panacur too..incase it's giardia instead of Coccidia. Not saying that's what it is but is miserable to have a sick one and not be able to obtain the meds fast. So.. Yes I can send some.

Other peeps re commended Baycox.. And that's an option too.. But I have none of that to offer and I was told it takes forever for the online store to send it.

But try the 5% every five.. Just in case. And one more question.. Does she have control of her bowels? Is she messing the cage ? Or just having the runs when stimulated? It's not terribly important but if the others are I contact with her poo.. That raises their risk. AND.. If she has no control she will need hydration between meals or she will crash .

I am new at this but this has been my life this last month. And I don't know how long you have been doing this so forgive me if your a long timer and experienced.

[beezle-weezle]

Try adding canned pumpkin.

Are the boys that are normal her age?

How long have you had. Lennie? How LNG has the loose poos been going on?

Do you have SMZ TMP ? Mine came in yesterday but I had already gotten some from my vet. I can send you some pills jus in case.. That was if you need it a week from now you will have it. I AM NOT SAYING YOU NEED IT .. BUT...

And yes it's possible to have squirrels in the same cage with an illness and only some or none get sick. I would however minimize their exposure by separating the sick one .

I had 6 - two got terribly ill. Two got only mildly ill and two never got sick at all.

Does it have a smell.. Can you describe it ? Can you post a picture of it?

The boys are a week older than her. I have had her since she was 24 hrs old (now 6 weeks). What gets me is she doesn't act sick. She is still playing and running and eating well. She has been eating between 5% and 6% since I have had her and is now acting like she is starving when she finishes 6%. I have given her some straight water (don't want the sugar to make it worse) between feedings to guard against dehydration. It smells like poop; not real strong anymore but still a slight smell. Not sure what SMZ or TMP is so I don't know if I have it. Getting ready to feed so will post pic in a few.

[beezle-weezle]

I didn't get any poop from her at feeding; that's because she went in the cage. Here is pic of the t shirt

[Mommaluvy]

Here is what I was told about the meds.... its in my reinfection poop eating smell thread :P


Baycox (toltorazuril) is more commonly used in farm animals, but a lot of rehabbers are using it and this place sells it in small amounts OTC: http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=478 Normally, since it is for cattle and pigs, you have to buy a huge bottle and it is $$$ This place repackages it.

Another suggestion would be SMZ-TMP, a commonly used vet drug. Basically, it is a drug very much like Albon that has another, stronger drug, Trimethoprim, added to it. Albon does not kill the coccidia - it just stops it from replicating - the body's immune system has to get rid of the it, and if the immune system is depressed from being ill it can take a looooooooooong time for that to happen. The added Trimethoprim kills the bacteria. It is NOT as fast as the Baycox, but it is a pretty reliable drug for coccidia, and will be faster than the Albon is.

When the albon flagyl combo did not work for Chrysto ( but did work for his sisters Pepita, Hickory and Pruney ) the vet proscribed SMZ-TMP just like what Crittermom had said. I had already ordered it online as a fish medication.. so now I am drowning in SMZ-TMP. LOL.

Again.. I am not saying your liittle one has coccidia for certain.

But I think if this is overfeeding.. which it probably is since you have had her for quite a while.. so there have not been any weird stresses to activate the coccidia then its probably overfeeding.. That said.. reducing the feeds to 5% every 5 hours should fix it. in 24 hours or less ( someone correct me if I am wrong).

Mine did not act sick till the nearer the end of the first week of diarrhea. Then they started crashing. Again.. not trying to scare you.. and Hickory and Pruney who only got mildly ill never acted different at all.

That said.. everything I have read suggests that almost all wilds have coccidia. I dunno if you have to have a stressor or not to activate it but that is usually the case. I think in my guys situation ( and again this is my first squirrel season ) that going from Trauma/homeless.. to rehabber number one.. and then to ME ( number two) and then a formula transition at her house and then another at mine... all in the same week possibly .. ( They were 2-3 weeks when i got them. So they may have gone from MOM to RH#1 to me all in the same week.. I dunno when RH#1 got them) And RH #1 and myself do things totally different to boot. And I am not trying to scare you ... Just trying to narrow down likely suspects to the runs.

[Ace-the-squirrel]

This is what Ace's poop looks like also!!

[Mommaluvy]

How is Lenny today? Been thinking about you guys.

[beezle-weezle]

Lennie is doing FANTASIC! Figured out what the problem was and at last feeding poop is almost back to normal. The answer ended up being heavy whipping cream. :w00t I have always added a little to her formula but have always kept it at 1/2 a teaspoon (mostly because she was so small. I wanted a few extra calories but didn't want to risk upsetting her tiny tummy). While trying to figure out what was going on I decreased the amount of whipping cream to see if it would help. It made it worse. So at the next feeding I increased the whipping cream a little and the poop turned from runs to mush. I gradually increased up to 1 teaspoon and poops have steadily improved.

Thank you Mommaluvy for all your advice and for thinking about my sweet girl!

[Mommaluvy]

YEAH !

Glad that was easy. Go figure.. adding the cream ! Glad it worked.

[beezle-weezle]

It's back, all of a sudden and with blood. Should I start looking for meds?

[Mommaluvy]

My un professional opinion is yes. Unless the baby ate something odd yesterday. Mine would do that.. I suspected formula at first changes were productive for a poop or too.. Then back to where we started.

I have SMZ TMP if you need it pm me I'll mail it today. 2/3 days ... In the mean time talk to your vet if you have one about smz TMP or albon/flagyl.

It took 5 days on the albon Flagyl for three of mine to clear up .

Chrysto took the full course 12 days and ad normal poos twice. He is now on day 7 of SMZ-TMP . And finally normal poops for 24 hours.

I have been told Baycox is faster .. But may not be safe for baby squirrels ?!?! Unsure.

[Mommaluvy]

In the last seven days .. Has she had more normal poops or more abnormal poops?

She was the one that used to bloat right? She skipped poops?

[beezle-weezle]

In the last seven days .. Has she had more normal poops or more abnormal poops?

She was the one that used to bloat right? She skipped poops?

More abnormal than normal. She has never bloated but she did like to skip a poop. After last feeding her poop was green. Any idea what this means? My vet doesn't see squirrelsand since they are illegal here I don't know where to look.

[lennysmom]

Prayers for baby Lennie. :grouphug I'm having similar issues with my two babies right now and I know how stressful it can be.
As far as a vet goes, that can be a difficult situation when it comes to testing for parasites. When my Lenny was a baby, I didn't have a vet that would treat a squirrel either so when he started having serious digestive issues, I called the vet and asked if they would be willing to test my "pet rat" for parasites since he had been sick. Thankfully they agreed.
But I will say the green poop is really making me think it may indeed be a parasite issue..

[Mommaluvy]

While my vet will test poo on a walk in basis, I think one that does exotics will test . But won't proscribe without seeing the animal.

You can get meds off the net . Or I can send you some just in case. Someone here would have to dose it though. You only need one or two pills and a way to crush em.

SmZ tmp would treat one parasite and panacur would treat another. They sell that OTC from tractor supply etc. But again you would need dosing.

I am not trying to diagnose or force meds on you but it's a horrible feeling when your hands are tied. I have the SmZ tmp - I will mail it free of charge .

Is there a Rehabber near you? I am not saying he needs to go there but they have some access to meds and vets.

[beezle-weezle]

Prayers for baby Lennie. :grouphug I'm having similar issues with my two babies right now and I know how stressful it can be.
As far as a vet goes, that can be a difficult situation when it comes to testing for parasites. When my Lenny was a baby, I didn't have a vet that would treat a squirrel either so when he started having serious digestive issues, I called the vet and asked if they would be willing to test my "pet rat" for parasites since he had been sick. Thankfully they agreed.
But I will say the green poop is really making me think it may indeed be a parasite issue..

Can treating her for parasites without conformation cause any harm to her?

[lennysmom]

Can treating her for parasites without conformation cause any harm to her?

Probably not, but there are different meds for different parasites, so that can make it a little more difficult. There are some broad spectrum parasite meds like Panacur that is used for many different types of parasites. Just bear in mind that these meds can be hard on their little systems. That is why it is good to know what you are dealing with before treating. However, I understand that sometimes that is not possible. Before you decide on any medication though, make sure but you get the proper dosing!!
I will let the some members with more experience weigh in on this one for you.

[beezle-weezle]

Probably not, but there are different meds for different parasites, so that can make it a little more difficult. There are some broad spectrum parasite meds like I anacur that is used for many different types of parasites. Just bear in mind that these meds can be hard on their little systems. That is why it is good to know what you are dealing with before treating. However, I understand that sometimes that is not possible. Before you decide on any medication though, make sure but you get the proper dosing!!
I will let the some members with more experience weigh in on this one for you.

I would never give her meds without proper dosing. I think the best course of action now is to treat the most common parasite in squirrels. Instead of wasting more time looking for a vet I may not find. What will happen to her if parasites remain untreated? Can anyone tell me which med I need to get?

[Mommaluvy]

And the tests are often negitive for parasites.

Got your address and will send you two SMZtMP . I can not overnight to NC - hope they will let me to VA. But either way it's going out tomorrow.

DO NOT GIVE WITH OUT DOSING :)

I think Panacur is te one you will need to find at a TRactor supply or pet store. It's over the counter . That one takes out giardia .

Hopefully the SmZ will do it. You will have to give a probiotic too .

[Mommaluvy]

Do you have a 1 cc syringe?

[beezle-weezle]

Do you have a 1 cc syringe?

Yea I have 30 of them

[Mommaluvy]

Ok est delivery is Friday the 19th. Could not overnight it :( as apparently your in the same region as my daughter in NC . Not an overnight region.


I packaged them in two seperate packages inside the envelope. One is labeled with it's full name. And the milligrams The other is just the abbreviations (SMZtMP ) . But they are the same medication. I was afraid to put them together incase one got squashed in the mail - that is ok cause your gonna Smash it up anyway ... BUT.. You want control of the dosage. And if both got smashed you would not know .. So.. I can be very confusing at times :p but that's why I did that.

And the expiration date is on there.

Your only going to need one pill probably but I sent two. Just incase it gets spilled or something .
When and if you need to dose the experts will tell you what else to do.



243239

[Mommaluvy]

How is she today ?

[beezle-weezle]

Poop is back to brown but still runny. She is still acting fine, still eating good. Going through cage changes like crazy. The boys are still fine. Thanks again Mommaluvy!

[Mommaluvy]

No problem :)

Hope you get it sorted out soon. I hate the consistent cleaning.. and washing of the butts.

Is it getting on her bum real bad? if so you may have to give her a bath. I use very diluted Dawn detergent . I soak him for a minute and rub gently and then rinse him. Then in between the daily baths I use unsented diaperwipes. Chryso's was so bad the diaper wipes were not doing the job very well. :( But fortunalty he seems to be on the mend.

[beezle-weezle]

No problem :)

Hope you get it sorted out soon. I hate the consistent cleaning.. and washing of the butts.

Is it getting on her bum real bad? if so you may have to give her a bath. I use very diluted Dawn detergent . I soak him for a minute and rub gently and then rinse him. Then in between the daily baths I use unsented diaperwipes. Chryso's was so bad the diaper wipes were not doing the job very well. :( But fortunalty he seems to be on the mend.

Yeah Lennie has gotten pretty used to the bath this week!

[beezle-weezle]

Lennie's poop started clearing up the day before yesterday. Yesterday evening they were perfect again. That didn't last, the runs are back Green and smelly. I am pretty convinced it is Giardia.

[lennysmom]

Lennie's poop started clearing up the day before yesterday. Yesterday evening they were perfect again. That didn't last, the runs are back Green and smelly. I am pretty convinced it is Giardia.

That's what it sounds like to me too. :(
So, are you treating her with the SMZ now?

[Chickenlegs]

Don't forget, my vet will see her BUT (like said) tests can come back negative. Folks here are looking out for you. That's what TSB does. Give Lennie a kiss on her nose from me--AFTER meds of course as don't want YOU to have anything parasitic, and I think some of our squirrley issues can become people issues. Somebody will set me straight if I'm wrong I hope.

[beezle-weezle]

Don't forget, my vet will see her BUT (like said) tests can come back negative. Folks here are looking out for you. That's what TSB does. Give Lennie a kiss on her nose from me--AFTER meds of course as don't want YOU to have anything parasitic, and I think some of our squirrley issues can become people issues. Somebody will set me straight if I'm wrong I hope.

Thank you! I spoke to a vet up here who said the test usually show up neg. I gave the the symptoms and they agree it sounds like Giardia, which humans can get

[Mommaluvy]

That's what it sounds like to me too. :(
So, are you treating her with the SMZ now?

The SmZ I sent should get there today *lF* it's needed.

But wouldn't she need Fenbenzidole or flagyl for the giardia ?? Or would the SMZ take care of those also?
And can or should she use them together- meaning say.. Fenben (aka panacur ) with the SMZ ?

[beezle-weezle]

Got meds mommaluvy sent. Now will SMZ TMP work for giardia?

[beezle-weezle]

That's what it sounds like to me too. :(
So, are you treating her with the SMZ now?

No just got it in the mail today. I am unclear if this will work for Giardia and if so what dose to give. She weighs 209.3 grams

[Mommaluvy]

Got meds mommaluvy sent. Now will SMZ TMP work for giardia?




Bump
Or would she need fenbendazole also? Amd can you give both.. And she will need dosing for both also.

[farrelli]

Don't know. Keep asking. TSB really sucks now.

[beezle-weezle]

Lennie has had 2 doses of Panacur and is doing so much better.I didn't expect it too work this fast. Her poops are pretty close to perfect! :serene Time to celebrate! ! :dance

[HRT4SQRLS]

I'm glad Lennie is doing better. That's great news. :thumbsup


Now will SMZ TMP work for giardia?
I saw this question and noticed that you didn't get an answer so I wanted to answer it so those that needed the info would have it on the record.
The answer is NO ... SMZ-TMP will not work for Giardia. For Giardia, you would need Metronidazole (Flagyl). :tilt

[farrelli]

Thanks, both people.