More poop problems

[Mommaluvy]

4 of my 5 of my 2-3 weekers have the runs now. It start ted with one .. The. Another. The. A day or two later ..... And now 4 outta five.

The colors vary to yellow with cream nuggets. To greenish with nuggets.

Tooth paste to mucus.

They transitioned off some kind of fox valley last Friday. Sunday the diarrhea started . I had just opened an new can of esbilac with pro B .

I had been asking about the one guy earlier in the week and had tried removing the cream from Chyrsto 's . No change - maybe worse. Kept that up added som
e kayopectate. Nothing. But either way.. Then another got it..then Another .

Sickly sweet smell. Not pleasant but not knock out stinky.

Feeding 5% every 3 hours.

These are not the squirrels that got the runs from the hydration upon intake.

Her are some lovely pictures. Various squirrel poop from this group.
sta241420241421

[Rhapsody]

When you mix up the formula is it all dissolved? -make sure there are no clumps left behind that might get sucked into their digestive track. If you feel all is well in the formula department then its possible that your little ones have developed a virus/bug in their tummy and may need some medicine if this does not clear up with you feeding them middle range of the 5-7% feeding rule every four hours for a couple of days.

[Duckman]

The difference with mine, is that the mucus is almost water colored (totally clear, no color)..

[ALittleNutty]

:eek, that's a mess you are having to deal with. Many recommend mixing the Esbilac and then letting it rest for a least an hour or overnight. When pulling out enough for a feeding I gently stir it since I find it does tend to settle to the bottom a bit.

Practicing good hygiene by washing hands before and after handling the squirrels is a must as well as washing their supplies in very hot soapy water. At this point I would probably soak them in hot water with a just a few drops of bleach added to kill any possible "bugs" and then triple rinse everything. If you can't wash syringes and nipples right away, then at least push the remaining formula out and pull in some soapy water. I keep a bowl on the counter just for this and then wash up supplies from a couple of feedings at one time. If you let the formula dry in the syringes or nipples then it can leave a residue which could be a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, etc.. Not meaning to be insulting but sometimes it can be the most simple thing that causes the biggest problems.

I really hope you get it figured out soon and your babies fell better. :grouphug

[Mommaluvy]

The good news is they don't appear dehydrated.
And they are gaining 5 grams every two days even with this.


Yes we have not tried to go to 7% yet.

Funny you mention dissolving. I use hot water ( just below boiling) mix half the water in and then mash it to a paste. The. I run it through a strainer. And keep mashing that up and pouring it back and forth through the strainer. Mix it all hard with the fork. Add he cream. Then I let it rest overnight in the fridge. Swirls before pouting to reheat.


Granted .. These 8 are my "second squirrels". But I have done this all with Pip. I have had him since he was 15g and now he is 175.

The only difference was this can of formula and making a larger batch . I have seen more sediment . More mixing ?

Do you think cutting their formula with water would help? Or going to 4% ever four hours?

I just bought a new can yesterday .. Maybe I'll crack that one open and stop using the other. 9 squirrels eat a lot :)

What kinda meds would I need to acquire if it gets there ?

Thank you !

[Mommaluvy]

The difference with mine, is that the mucus is almost water colored (totally clear, no color)..

We had that .. Just did not get a picture. That's how my boy started. His poop is now in that cup.

[Mommaluvy]

:eek, that's a mess you are having to deal with. Many recommend mixing the Esbilac and then letting it rest for a least an hour or overnight. When pulling out enough for a feeding I gently stir it since I find it does tend to settle to the bottom a bit.

Practicing good hygiene by washing hands before and after handling the squirrels is a must as well as washing their supplies in very hot soapy water. At this point I would probably soak them in hot water with a just a few drops of bleach added to kill any possible "bugs" and then triple rinse everything. If you can't wash syringes and nipples right away, then at least push the remaining formula out and pull in some soapy water. I keep a bowl on the counter just for this and then wash up supplies from a couple of feedings at one time. If you let the formula dry in the syringes or nipples then it can leave a residue which could be a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, etc.. Not meaning to be insulting but sometimes it can be the most simple thing that causes the biggest problems.

I really hope you get it figured out soon and your babies fell better. :grouphug


No offense taken. I usually do clean up right away unless we are on the road . BUT something may have gotten missed. I'll bleach the nipples in the morning.

Will bleach and just below boiling water kill most everything?

[Rhapsody]

Funny you mention dissolving. I use hot water ( just below boiling) mix half the water in and then mash it to a paste. The. I run it through a strainer. And keep mashing that up and pouring it back and forth through the strainer. Mix it all hard with the fork. Add he cream. Then I let it rest overnight in the fridge. Swirls before pouting to reheat.


What kinda meds would I need to acquire if it gets there ?

Thank you !

I have been thinking about making a video of how I mix my formula (no clumps) - so let me do that tomorrow night when I need some more. I only make what my babies will drink within a 24 hour time period, this way the formula is always fresh (and) I place the formula in a plastic cup after it is warmed up then it sets in a coffee cup with hot water in it that is on a coffee cup warmer that keeps the formula warm until the very last squirrel is feed....... Cold Formula is NOT good to feed to a squirrel.

I think we need for you to feed your squirrels 5% of its body weight at a ratio of 1:3 (1 powder / 3 water) every 4 hours for a few days and lets see if this resolves the poops issue...... if not them we look at giving some SMZ or Cipro for one week.

[ALittleNutty]

No offense taken. I usually do clean up right away unless we are on the road . BUT something may have gotten missed. I'll bleach the nipples in the morning.

Will bleach and just below boiling water kill most everything?

Not sure it will kill everything but it will kill a bunch of the nasty little bugs.

I know about trying to clean up on the road. A wide mouth thermos bottle of soapy water comes in handy. Traveling with squirrels makes us get very creative, lol. I couldn't find the cord to my plug-in, travel mug that I used for heating formula, so I had to resort to letting it warm up on the dash of the car on our last trip. That didn't take long at all in this summer heat. Kept it warm too! :grin2

[Duckman]

No offense taken. I usually do clean up right away unless we are on the road . BUT something may have gotten missed. I'll bleach the nipples in the morning.

Will bleach and just below boiling water kill most everything?

Rather than bleach, which can poison the babies by slow exposure, use Vinegar in place of the bleach. Vinegar will kill anything that bleach will, but isn't toxic. On this we are experts, as our son has Cystic Fibrosis and all of his treatment equipment and breathing equipment has to be sterilized with vinegar before he can use it. We have done this for 15 years now and have never had a contamination episode!

[Mommaluvy]

I have been thinking about making a video of how I mix my formula (no clumps) - so let me do that tomorrow night when I need some more. I only make what my babies will drink within a 24 hour time period, this way the formula is always fresh (and) I place the formula in a plastic cup after it is warmed up then it sets in a coffee cup with hot water in it that is on a coffee cup warmer that keeps the formula warm until the very last squirrel is feed....... Cold Formula is NOT good to feed to a squirrel.

I think we need for you to feed your squirrels 5% of its body weight at a ratio of 1:3 (1 powder / 3 water) every 4 hours for a few days and lets see if this resolves the poops issue...... if not them we look at giving some SMZ or Cipro for one week.

I do the same .. The warming - fresh.... Etc. But I would love to see it. There are always cumbs in the strainer which I throw out

[jbtartell]

call me please:thumbsup

[Mommaluvy]

This morning My boy was better today. Having backed off the fat for 24 hours.
The girls was worse. So backing them all off today.
2 were softer than should be but formed and hardish
And tiny was still normal .

[Mommaluvy]

Tiny is still normal.
Hickory and Prune-y are mostly solid .

The Chryso and Pepita are back to gel. With no curds .

How can squirrels have such different systems ? I guess like people.

Could it be that I over stimulate their bowels? They had been used to going in Thier box.( where they had been before) I know that's a crazy question... They are supposed to be stimulated at this age.

[Mommaluvy]

Should I be seeing results ?

[Duckman]

Tiny is still normal.
Hickory and Prune-y are mostly solid .

The Chryso and Pepita are back to gel. With no curds .

How can squirrels have such different systems ? I guess like people.

Could it be that I over stimulate their bowels? They had been used to going in Thier box.( where they had been before) I know that's a crazy question... They are supposed to be stimulated at this age.

Yes, they are supposed to be stimulated at this age. I'm at a loss as well, but I am changing up what I am feeding. I am cutting out the Esbilac and going straight FV for a time. Just make sure to keep them hydrated during this.

[Mommaluvy]

Nope - no such lucky . Right back to 4 of them with the gel poop.

Tiny is still normal.

I guess I should order the fox valley. Weights were stable this am.
No gain since the watered down formula.


And now the boy with the runs is opening his eye. He weighs 60 grams.

[Duckman]

Nope - no such lucky . Right back to 4 of them with the gel poop.

Tiny is still normal.

I guess I should order the fox valley. Weights were stable this am.
No gain since the watered down formula.


And now the boy with the runs is opening his eye. He weighs 60 grams.

I'm wondering if it is the batch of Esbilac. We got ours off Amazon and have had it about 2-3 weeks now. Of course, we bought 80 lbs of it, so if it is bad, I am going to be sending it back! Luckily we have about 100lbs of the FV 32/40 (due to the fact that we already have over 200 squirrels with volunteers! :eek).

[Mommaluvy]

I'm wondering if it is the batch of Esbilac. We got ours off Amazon and have had it about 2-3 weeks now. Of course, we bought 80 lbs of it, so if it is bad, I am going to be sending it back! Luckily we have about 100lbs of the FV 32/40 (due to the fact that we already have over 200 squirrels with volunteers! :eek).


I am wondering. My first can had no probiotics. Pip had already been on it for a week before I found TSB. I finished it off just as the pinkies were transitioning . Everyone seemed to transition well . But at the end of the transition the boy got it ( had been on straight esbilac for 4 feedings before the runs started. By then I had cracked the new can open.


Then like I said .. One by one .

The girl named Sunny was already four weeks and when she hit 100 grams I put her in with the big ones. She is doing fine.. Tiny is still with the pinkies and she is doing fine.

I am transitioning the two that are worse off over to what I assume is the FV 32/40and if they get well... I will order FV . I should have enough for a few days. I could get some off the rehabber .

[Rhapsody]

Here is the video I said I would make on how I mix my formula - Esbilac.
(please watch the AD - it helps support my Squirrels) :tilt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVnjiYm94XU&feature=youtu.be

[Mommaluvy]

Thank you!

[Mommaluvy]

Ok. I had Chrysostom and Pepita on 50/50 FV and EsB-PB for two feedings yesterday. And after talking to Duckman I switched them over for the next two feedings to straight up FV. This morning.. NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL POOP . Praise GOD. .. Having kids with food allergies I never thought I would praise GOD for normal poop in anything other than humans.. but the occasion has risen .


Everyone gained weight again .. and have started the other two on 50/50 and will switch them over soon as well.


Sure hope Tiny.. who has remained normal through the whole thing does not have the opposite effect.

:grin2:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy

[Mommaluvy]

And we are back to mush for pep and Chryso:tap

[Rhapsody]

And we are back to mush for pep and Chryso:tap

Are you feeding them at the 5% rule? some times squirrels cannot take more formula at one time.
And - while the formula says to mix at a ratio of 1:2, I find many squirrels require a 1:3.

Please decide on one formula to feed them and stick to it for two weeks to see how it works. :tilt

[Mommaluvy]

Are you feeding them at the 5% rule? some times squirrels cannot take more formula at one time.
And - while the formula says to mix at a ratio of 1:2, I find many squirrels require a 1:3.

Please decide on one formula to feed them and stick to it for two weeks to see how it works. :tilt

I am Defiantly feeding at 5% I know its better to under feed than over feed.

I am afraid I may not have two weeks. Not trying to be sarcastic. I was partly wrong.. the boy seems to be normal. I just saw poop smeared all over them for the ten feeding . He pooped normal then had loose in the middle and then his poop after finishing his food was normal again.

the girl however pooped stuff that looked like curd of cottage cheese only slightly yellow.. then followed by bloody tinged mucus.

This whole thing is a mess. My re habber gave me a small baggie of FV and told me to transition then to what ever I was using at home for my other three squirrels. I did that per the 25/75 2 feedings.. 25/50 2 feedings.. 75/25 two.. and then finally straight . No one had any loose stools after that for 24 hours.

Chrysto then has had the runs 5/6 days
Pepita for 3/4
Then Pruney and Hickory for 2/3 days.

I called her yesterday and she demanded that I put them on FV again . Told me not to even transition them. That they had been stable when they left her. And was quite mad , short, and stern with me.

I guess she forgot that she told me to feed them what ever I was using. She was also mad that I had been stimulating them.. called it a waste of time. I am in NO WAY blaming HER for this. But I have no history on this batch. I dunnno if they fell, or how long she had them. Days or weeks? So I would appreciate her not blaming me. I am doing EVERYTHING I did for these guys my others and esp for Pip. But I never ran into these problems before. I don't agree with the practice of not stimulating them. They have been in my care for nearly 3 weeks. They were 1-2 weeks when I got them. ( cept sunny was 3-4 weeks )

This is why I had changed so much. I am trying to get them back on the FV but am now waiting for it to get here cause I don't normally use it. But Pep and Chyrso were getting worse on the 1:3 .

I really feel abandoned in all this. And that I have screwed up royally in my duties. In fact this rehabber is not actually my Permit holder.. she is my permit holders friend who is a permit holder. Its a big fat stinking mess. And if it were not for you guys I would have NO Blinking idea of how to proceed.

I guess if push comes to shove I will call my vet. But Apparently Pip was his first squirrel.


Not trying to sound like a jerk. I am just very raw, confused, concerned and feel horrible.

[ALittleNutty]

Sorry you are having such a rough time with this. I do not agree with her on the "don't stimulate them".

I do think it would be best to stick with one formula recipe for at least a one week minimum. They have been through so many changes their little systems just can't catch up. Not blaming you but I think sometimes we want instant results and we tend to rush to change instead of giving it a little more time to work out.

Hang in there and I really hope they get regular soon.

[Mommaluvy]

Sorry you are having such a rough time with this. I do not agree with her on the "don't stimulate them".

I do think it would be best to stick with one formula recipe for at least a one week minimum. They have been through so many changes their little systems just can't catch up. Not blaming you but I think sometimes we want instant results and we tend to rush to change instead of giving it a little more time to work out.

Hang in there and I really hope they get regular soon.

:Love_Icon

True. And thank you for understanding my rant. Her logic which may or may not be accurate was that she knew the FV was digestible for them. And that made sense in some ways. And when they got worse on the dilute after a while I panicked. And now this blood is freaking me out.

[ALittleNutty]

:Love_Icon

True. And thank you for understanding my rant. Her logic which may or may not be accurate was that she knew the FV was digestible for them. And that made sense in some ways. And when they got worse on the dilute after a while I panicked. And now this blood is freaking me out.

You are welcome. Sorry but I don't have a clue about the blood other than their intestinal tract may just be severely irritated. I hope someone with more experience will think of something.

[Shewhosweptforest]

:bump the bloody mucus is a concern...as ALittleNutty said it could be an irritated intestinal tract....but honestly, I do not believe this came from transitioning them to another formula...we do this all the time....with babies that finders have been feeding God knows what :dono so don't beat yourself up about the transitioning....I think it's strange that this rehabber would even go there :thinking not someone I'd want to deal with on a regular basis :shakehead

As ALittleNutty said earlier...hopefully someone will come on to help that knows more...the only thing I would do...if she has a good weight...is try giving her just sugar water for a feeding or two...and see if her little system settles down...I'm only going by common sense and things I've done with my kids, and dogs. If they're digestive system is irritated putting something in there that needs to be digested, can aggravate it. Giving it a rest may help :dono Good luck, I'm pulling for ya :Love_Icon

Sorry the rehabber was such a jerk :get_em

[Duckman]

Mine are all starting to do better, except one. He is now skin and bones and severely dehydrated. I have had to Sub-Q him twice now and his anus is just beet red. I am having a fecal done today, so I can rule out any bacteria. The others have started to have a more firm poop again.

[Mommaluvy]

Mine are all starting to do better, except one. He is now skin and bones and severely dehydrated. I have had to Sub-Q him twice now and his anus is just beet red. I am having a fecal done today, so I can rule out any bacteria. The others have started to have a more firm poop again.


The others are also doing better. Sorry you have a mixed bag also.

Maybe I will try the sugar water. She is active and she had gained this am. But she had begun calling out at meals yesterday.. made me think she was SOOOO hungry. I have decided to be VERY light on the stimulation on her.

Will call my vet also about a fecal. That would probably be a good idea. I should have saved that sample. But Frankly.. and this is JUST my GUESS.. I would doubt it. Because if it was parasites then all of them should have it right? and they would all be not getting better. But a fecal never hurts right?!

Esp with her.. cause digestive speaking she has always been a mess. She would "bloat" up but her belly would be soft and she would still poop.. not always very much poop.. but always a turd or two. Then make up for it at the next meal. So.. that might make me think parasite.

[Mommaluvy]

:bump the bloody mucus is a concern...as ALittleNutty said it could be an irritated intestinal tract....but honestly, I do not believe this came from transitioning them to another formula...we do this all the time....with babies that finders have been feeding God knows what :dono so don't beat yourself up about the transitioning....I think it's strange that this rehabber would even go there :thinking not someone I'd want to deal with on a regular basis :shakehead

As ALittleNutty said earlier...hopefully someone will come on to help that knows more...the only thing I would do...if she has a good weight...is try giving her just sugar water for a feeding or two...and see if her little system settles down...I'm only going by common sense and things I've done with my kids, and dogs. If they're digestive system is irritated putting something in there that needs to be digested, can aggravate it. Giving it a rest may help :dono Good luck, I'm pulling for ya :Love_Icon

Sorry the rehabber was such a jerk :get_em


Thank you. I kinda needed a verbal hug. I am not normally high maintenance but this being my first squirrel season I have lots of questions and these guys are defiantly giving me experience with "something". :tilt:eek

And I highly suspect you guys are right that its irritated. My mom has all sorts of digestive stuff and this happens to her often. Diverticultius and other things.

[Shewhosweptforest]

You're doing great, even tho you're getting a baptism by fire :eek :Love_Icon :grouphug

[ALittleNutty]

: the bloody mucus is a concern...as ALittleNutty said it could be an irritated intestinal tract....but honestly, I do not believe this came from transitioning them to another formula...we do this all the time....with babies that finders have been feeding God knows what

No it wouldn't make sense if these babies had gone from one formula to another. I had to skim back through the thread, and I may have missed something, but over the past 3 days they came in on FV(?), went to Esbilac and back to FV. At some point cream was added and then removed. That's a lot of change in a short time period. I still wouldn't rule out it being a bacteria problem. At this point it's anybody's best guess what is going on in those tiny tummies.

I sure hope they feel better soon so you can enjoy them and relax a little.

[ALittleNutty]

You're doing great, even tho you're getting a baptism by fire :eek :Love_Icon :grouphug
:goodpost

[Mommaluvy]

No it wouldn't make sense if these babies had gone from one formula to another. I had to skim back through the thread, and I may have missed something, but over the past 3 days they came in on FV(?), went to Esbilac and back to FV. At some point cream was added and then removed. That's a lot of change in a short time period. I still wouldn't rule out it being a bacteria problem. At this point it's anybody's best guess what is going on in those tiny tummies.

I sure hope they feel better soon so you can enjoy them and relax a little.

Total history recap....
They came in late on the 11th on FV the 14 th I began transition. No problems in everyone but Chyrso And it was just soft mushy poop. But not anything like this... He got bad hiccups ( clicking that goes away ) or something that I thought was Pneumonia at first. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47130-Cipro-Dose-for-45-gram&highlight=


. Somewhere in that transition I popped open a new can of Esbilac with PRO. B. Shame one me for not noting when. Anyhow transition took about 24 hours or more as I went slow with the final 25/75. August 16, 17, they were fine.

Chryso started soft stools on the 15th.. LATE on the 16th. it went from semi normal soft to a - tooth paste constancy - yellowy white color. And to top it off yesterday his right eye opened ! a bit early I think.


It was his sister Pep I was concerned about here where it looked like she might be having some trouble with ANY OF THE formulas. She was also having milk line issues on FV when she came to me. THe rehabber warned me about her. .. that was before the switch to Esbilac. She was not digesting and would even have a milk line after 5 hours! It was like she was not digesting the FV but her poops were normal . ONce we switched to the Esbilac it became formed but softer than normal. Still solid though. She has gained 20+ grams through all of this. She hit her high mark at 49 grams on 8/21. She went down to 47 when the fat was removed. and was 48g this morning. It is her that has the blood tinge mucus.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?47098-Multiple-help-needed-LONG&highlight=


On the 19th Pepita got sick with the runs


on the 20th Pruny got sick.. Hickory then got it late on the 2oth. That started this thread.

Tiny remains normal and remains in with her size guys. By then Chryso and Pep had the green stuff, Hickory and Prun had the toothpast white yellow stuff.
Somewhere in there I took the big girl Sunshine out ( she hit 90 grams and i was afraid she would pop pepita's intestine stepping on her. ) Sunshine remains fine. She is in with the big kids now.. they are all fine. Back to the babies. ....

At the time of this first post they were all pooping the poops you see in the pictures. The tiny brown turds for comparison are what everyone had been pooping and what Tiny continues to poop.

So when it was just Chryso and Pep I took the cream out. No improvement. But kept on. Then when all started getting it ( cept tiny) I was cutting the formula to the diluted Esbilac. No improvement but still no weight loss. Some continued to gain. By the 21 I had Chryso and Pep on the diluted esbilac and began transition of just the two onto FV.

So yes over the last three days some of them have had no fat, and some of them had some fat( NOT PEPITA AND CHYRSO ) . And yes I write all this down and they all have nail polish on their butt so I know for certain who is who.

I weigh them empty stomach every morning.. and calculate the 5%-7% for each one. BUT.. since they have had so many issues I never go above 5% for Pepita and Chyrs. And I had done 6% for Tiny cause she NEVER has a milk line at any feeding.... But in the last few days even she has also only gotten 5%.


I know this is confusing cause there is so much going on. But long story short. For most of them the digestion issues have been going on since the switch to Esblac. 3 of the five handled it great for a few days. Pep and Chyrso did not soar through it at all. and some did great for four days.

[ALittleNutty]

Thanks for clarifying the timelines of what happened and when. Still saying prayers you get this figured out and they all get back to normal soon.

[Mommaluvy]

We had normal poops for everyone over night and almost clean paper towels for the two separated sickest. ( they are in a bin together by themselves for now) .

Morning came and totally normal poops. Good weights.. Still no major loss - some even gained.

Second feeding came and totally normal poops. I nearly posted pictures.

Third feeding - all hell broke loose in both bins and now Tiny is even toothpaste. All have loose stools when stimulated.

And they must all be close to four weeks now cause they are popping eyes open left and right. And I have had them 13 days.

All are back to FV only.

So discouraged.

One minute all is normal.. The next all is a disaster