What is wrong with this squirrel?

[cierpke]

http://www.ewildagain.org/images/Esbilac%20Squirrel%20Bloat%20Fever.jpg

What is wrong with this squirrel? Is it from using Esbilac? Is this just malnourishment or is there infections in play? Can it be reversed by switching over to Fox Valley? Thanks for any answers!!

:thankyou

[HRT4SQRLS]

:eek
We need more information. What kind of Esbilac?
Is your heating pad too hot?
How long have you had him?
Was he found in the sun! Looks like terrible sunburn.

[cierpke]

This isn't my squirrel!! It's a picture I found in a study on the formula changes in the puppy Esbilac (PetAg)

[Duckman]

It doesn't look formula related, but rather a severe burn. Poor baby, it just breaks my heart to know that some go through things like this. :sad

[HRT4SQRLS]

Whew! You scared me there!
It's hard to say without knowing the entire story. There have been changes in the Esbilac formula. They are making us insane.

At first, Esbilac Puppy formula was good. Many rehabbers used it.
Then, around 2010 they changed it and many baby squirrels died. It was awful. Most rehabbers stopped using Esbilac entirely. FoxValley became the preferred formula. In 2013, Esbilac changed the formula again. It is the Esbilac with probiotic and prebiotics. It is now being used successfully for baby squirrels.
Unfortunately, now FoxValley has issues. Very tiny babies and pinkies can not digest FoxValley and are bloating from it.
Oye! It is a constant battle!!!
Just curious, why do you ask?

[cierpke]

Well I have a baby I've had for 4 weeks and we guestimate she was between 1-1 1/2 weeks when we found her (with a busted nose that has since healed up beautifully) and I feel like she isn't growing like she should and I've been battling dry skin with her as well. Compared to images of squirrels that are supposedly the same age, I feel like she isn't growing at the same rate. So that's why I started researching formula. I've already ordered the 20/40 Fox Valley or her to see of that will help and I apply baby oil every morning.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Do you have her in a cardboard box? They are very drying to the skin. We recommend plastic Sterilite containers with holes drilled in them. Baby oil really shouldn't be needed if everything is correct. Is your baby fully hydrated? Does the skin tent if you pinch it up between the shoulders?

I guess her eyes have not opened right? They open at 5 weeks.

[HRT4SQRLS]

One other thing, the Esbilac Puppy formula with prebiotics and probiotics is the correct one. The other Esbilac products should not be used. The FV 20/50 is a good formula for an older baby. Can you post a pic of your baby? We want to help you get her on tract.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I know this is a lot of question but we want to help you with your baby.
How much does she weigh?
How much formula is she taking?
Is she active or lethargic?
You don't hear a clicking when she breaths do you?

[cierpke]

Yes, she's in a 1x1ft 6in deep plastic container with holes drilled in lid. Her skin tents for about a second but she's so wiggly and climbs everywhere she pulls the skin back so it's hard to tell. She's definitely not lethargic. Her pee is almost clear and her poop is med. brown. Not rock hard or runny so…idk? I'm using the Esbilac w/ probiotics right now till the Fox Valley gets here. Her heating pad is on outside of tub on low.

Edit: I'm not sure how much she weighs.
She's taking in 2-3 1cc syringes at every feeding.
Definitely not lethargic.
No clicking. I hold her upside down if she aspirates. She used to do it often but pretty much never these days.
She has really fine hair all over her body but it's hard to see unless in profile but she has quite a bit more hair on her tail. I'm thinking the dry skin is not helping with hair growth. I can get pictures as soon as I get my phone back. Eyes have not opened but ears are almost all the way open.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Yes, she's in a 1x1ft 6in deep plastic container with holes drilled in lid. Her skin tents for about a second but she's so wiggly and climbs everywhere she pulls the skin back so it's hard to tell. She's definitely not lethargic. Her pee is almost clear and her poop is med. brown. Not rock hard or runny so…idk? I'm using the Esbilac w/ probiotics right now till the Fox Valley gets here. Her heating pad is on outside of tub on low.

Edit: I'm not sure how much she weighs.
She's taking in 2-3 cc syringes at every feeding.
Definitely not lethargic.
No clicking. I hold her upside down if she aspirates. She used to do it often but pretty much never these days.

Everything you're doing sounds good so far.
A weight would be good to know if you're feeding enough. They should receive 5-7% of their body weight per feeding. Example: If the baby weights 60g the correct amount would be between 3cc - 4.2cc. How often are you feeding her?
I would think a 5 week old would be taking more than 2-3cc per feeding. That sounds low to me. Even our FL squirrels (which are small) weigh 50-60g or more at 5 weeks. We really do need a weight.



Is her container half on/ half off the heating pad so that she can move off if she gets too warm.?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Two things I would suggest.
(1) get a small lid of some type and put some damp cotton or material in it. Put it on the heat pad side. This will help to humidify the container she is in and help with the dry skin.

(2) get a scale. I don't think she's eating enough. She might also need additional hydration between meals for the dry skin. I would try to get some water or hydration fluid in her between meals. The hydration fluid is 3 Tablespoons of sugar in one quart of warm water.

I have to step away from the computer now but others are here to help you. I need to finish mowing. Don't leave us, we really want to help you with your baby.

What is her name?

[Mommaluvy]

Yes make sure the pad is under only 1/2 or 1/3 of the container so he or she can get off the heat if its too hot.

My 6/7 week old squirrel ( 40 days in my care.. got im as a pinky) weights 115 g . And eats about 6-7 CC of esbilac ever 4 hours.

The squirrel in the picture to me .. the one at the top of this thread looks sunburned or some sort of burn.

It is my understanding the esbilac of the old day was causing digestive issues that were leading to death. Diarrhea in some.. non digestion and blocking up in others.

Now FV is causing similar digestive issues.

I know digestion/nutrition and the skin are related - in humans and squirrels. But if your little guy is having skin issues I would look to another cause.. such as mites or fat content of the formula.

I would try maybe a more natural oil on its skin if you think it needs it. Like Coconut or olive.. or walnut oil.. LOL......

Baby oil has a fragrance and I personally would be worried that it may affect the lungs. BUT that is just my personal preference.

[Mommaluvy]

The hair loss is not just around the mouth is it? If so it could be milk burn.

[cierpke]

Where would I get a scale?? At any super store or somewhere like Feeder's Supply??

And the heating pad is 1/2 off 1/2 on. She has lots of hair on her chin and nose but not so much on the head/neck/torso/legs. Lots on tail too.

I haven't used the baby oil on her in several days b/c I put a water source to hopefully humidify her tub but it didn't seem to evaporate or help at all.

I usually just feed her until she refuses the food which can be anywhere from 1cc to 3ccs at a time b/c I don't want her to bloat.
I even strain the formula to get the chunks that don't dissolve out. After eating the above her belly is full and round with a large milk line so I'm afraid to feed her more.

[Mommaluvy]

Usually at a regular store.. in the food prep section.. a regular food scale will work. Just make sure you devote it to squirrels only after this use :P

I dunno what people do once the squirrel goes over the limit of the scale. So get the cheapest one that goes up high as you can .. Mine only goes ot 450.. so eventually I am gonna need a new one.

[farrelli]

Home Depot, Target, Bed, Bath, & Beyond... Lots of places have them. Most have a 5lb or more limit, so it should carry you through. $20 will get you a nice digital one with a tare function.

[cierpke]

Her name is Jane. (We thought she was a boy at first and were calling her Tarzan so we had to switch it up)
She should be no older than 4 weeks now. You can see her dry skin.

These are the pics from the day we found her:
You can see she landed on her nose.
240618240619

This is from right after her nose completely healed:
240620

And the first of these is from a few days ago with the others being from a few minutes ago:
240623240624240625240626

[HRT4SQRLS]

Hi Jane!

cierpke, I'm gonna be honest with, Jane is way too small for a 4 week old but I think you already knew that. That's what made you start searching for answers. :thumbsup
That was a really bad nose job there. You did well to pull her through that. With her tiny size and that awful wound she could have easily passed just from that. We see a lot of nose injuries from falls but Jane's looked especially bad.
Is she a black squirrel? She looks very dark.

When is the FoxValley going to arrive? The Esbilac is Not working for Jane. Have you tried adding a little heavy cream to her formula? That would probably help.

Walmart also sells the scale. It would be in the kitchen supply area. It should weigh in grams. They are relativity inexpensive. I paid less than $20. ($14 I believe)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Just to confirm, you're sure the Esbilac is the Puppy type with probiotics and prebiotics. The only reason I ask is because Jane DOES look the emaciated Esbilac babies that were on the bad stuff. She has very little muscle mass. Her skin is loose.

A rehabber from last year raised her babies on the the new Esbilac and she did indicate that she was not happy with the way her babies looked. She was used to the fat little rollie-pollie FoxValley babies. Most rehabbers now are using the Esbilac and/or goat milk for the tiny babies and are then transitioning to FoxValley and/or Esbilac when they get older. Jane needs to switch very soon.

[cierpke]

The Fox Valley came this afternoon and I plan on giving it to her in her next feeding, about an hour from now.

And yes, the Esbilac said it had pre and probiotics on a blue strip at the top. I feel like it worked well for her at first because she grew really fast but then she kind of stopped suddenly. I'll keep this thread updated as i switch her to Fox Valley. If this doesn't work I don't know what to do :/

[HRT4SQRLS]

Whoa, let me send some others to this thread. You need to transition Jane to the FoxValley. Hold off until you get some advice on that.

[HRT4SQRLS]

cierpke,
It looks like you're stuck with me. :shakehead

You have to be very careful switching formulas. They can get diarrhea OR their bowels can lock up and get bloat. That is very dangerous.
I would mix the FoxValley, 1 part FV with 3 parts warm water. Let it sit.

I probably would use the Esbilac alone this feeding and give the Fox Valley a little time to sit.

You have the Esbilac already made up, right?

On the next feeding, I would start adding the FV to the already made Esbilac.
1/4 FV to 3/4 Esbilac, then
1/2 FV to 1/2 Esbilac, then
3/4 FV to 1/4 Esbilac, then
100% FoxValley.

Watch the poops closely. Be careful with bloat. When she is fully transitioned for a few feedings and seems stable I would mix the FoxValley per directions 1 part FV to 2 parts water.

[CritterMom]

Can you tell us which of the Fox Valley formulas you got? They have 32/40 and 20/50.

It is important to always make food switches SLOWLY and GRADUALLY to avoid stomach issues.

Mix up a container of the Esbilac exactly the way you have been doing.

Mix up another container of the Fox Valley formula. It, too, is mixed at a rate of 2 parts water and 1 part formula powder.

You will combine them in a third container. For the first 3 or 4 feedings, mix 5 parts of the Esbilac formula and 1 part of the Fox Valley.

After you have fed that mixture at least 3 or 4 times, go ahead and mix it up to be 4 parts Esbilac and 1 part FV and do the same thing - give the baby several feedings and make sure he is tolerating the change okay. If so, your next will be 3 parts Esbilac and 1 part FV, and so on.

I strongly suggest you stop when you are feeding a 50/50 mixture of the two formulas - people are having good luck with that with the older babies. If he was mine, that is exactly what I would do.

[cierpke]

I have the 20/50 for her. The Esbilac has been mixed up since 11am EST. I mixed the FV at around 7-7:30. How long should I let it sit??

[HRT4SQRLS]

Typically a little longer, but I would go ahead and start with the dilutions that CritterMom suggested. Jane really needs some calories. Hopefully the new formula will help. There are 'failure to thrive' babies. I hope Jane isn't one of those.
Watch her milk line and poops carefully. If the milk line doesn't disappear between feeding let us know. That is a problem.

The 20/50 is the correct FV.

[Nancy in New York]

Just a little suggestion.
As HRT4SQRLS mentioned, place something in her container for
humidity.
What I use is a glass baby food jar, cut a piece of sponge
and dampen it, and place it into the jar. Place the jar inside on the part of the container
that has the heat source. Remember to keep the sponge damp, not soaking wet, you will
have to remoisten about every 6-10 hours.
I would also get a larger container. You said your's is only 6 inches deep?
They can really crawl once they get going, so make sure that you get something
that is approximately 12 inches deep.
She is tiny for her age, but oh so cute! :Love_Icon
By the way, you have gotten outstanding advice. :)
I'm glad that you found us.

[cierpke]

Thanks everyone so much for your help!! I tried feeding her just now, 2 1/2 hours after her last feeding. She wasn't interested and her milk line didn't go away. I submerged her bottom half in warm water and massaged her belly, even though she doesn't seem bloated, just in case she was having discomfort. She has pooped and peed quite a lot today so she isn't constipated. She even goes without stimulation quite a bit, judging by her linens. She had 3ccs her last feeding, as she couldn't hold anymore.

Also, her tub has a top with holes so she can't really climb out. She's going to be transitioned to something bigger as soon as she has more hair on her :/
The holes are spaced a little less than an inch apart and are about the size of someone's pinky nail.

[HRT4SQRLS]

2 and 1/2 hours is too frequent at her age. I would extend the time to 4 hours. She needs time for the formula to digest before more formula is added. You will probably see her appetite increase also with the extended time interval.

Don't let her get chilled from the 'dunking'. :grin2

[Mommaluvy]

ONe thing I do is dab baby before and after every feeding.. the last time cleaning off the milk. Pips a sloppy eater but the nipple has helped.

It mimics the grooming.. I just use a piece of gauze with some of the warm water that I used to warm the milk. Not soaking wet.. just damp and dab.

She is so young.. should she even be on the Fox valley yet? or is she no longer considered a Neonate?

[Rodentia]

Are most of you recommending using bottled water only? One of my first babies had serious delays and another rehabber thought it was possibly from the fluoride in the city water that I was using. Now I only use bottled water to mix my formula and to put in my water bottles. This same squirrel had a small area that looked similar to this squirrel. I assumed it was a burn from the rice bag. I put bag balm on it and it healed up quickly.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Mommaluvy, Jane is older than she looks. She is at least 4+ weeks old. The FV isn't recommended for the tiny ones but Jane isn't thriving on the Esbilac so it's time to try something else. :thumbsup

Interesting about the water Rodentia. I never thought about the fluoride or even the chlorine for that matter. I have a well.
I'm not sure what the others use, bottled or tap. :dono

[Mommaluvy]

honest with, Jane is way too small for a 4 week old but I think you already knew that. That's what made you start


my bad... totally misread ...yep time for bed:sleep

[Nancy in New York]

Just one other suggestion.
If while you are feeding or perhaps even when you start, if she appears to not be interested,
stimulate her to potty. What we sometimes find is that these little ones really have to go and
are more concerned with relieving themselves than eating, and once that is accomplished.......they
eat like champs.
Yes, and space out the feedings a little as well.
Are you hydrating in between feeding?

[HRT4SQRLS]

Any updates on Jane?

[Nancy in New York]

Any updates on Jane?

:dono I sure hope that everything's alright.