3-week-old (?) babies, out of nest less than 72 hrs, may be constipated. Advice?

[reyhoward]

Hello. Rey here, in West Hollywood. This past Monday (7/28) night, a nest containing a mama and three babies fell probably 40 feet from a very large pine tree onto the spine of our roof. It made a surprisingly loud noise. Mama was spotted climbing *very* slowly up the tree soon after, and has not been seen since -- not even in response to her babies' cries the next day.

Soon thereafter, we found the nest, with two females and one male still inside. Lightly furred, eyes closed, eye slips well developed, ear flaps beginning to separate from their heads, no incisors erupted yet. Based on online resources, I'm estimating three weeks?

Per online resources such as this board and wikihow.com/Raise-a-Baby-Squirrel (http://www.wikihow.com/Raise-a-Baby-Squirrel): We put them on the water/salt/sugar re-hydrating solution immediately, six times per day, and every three hours (but not overnight). The next morning, they went on the goat's milk/ goat's milk yogurt (both full-fat) formula. Fox Valley formula is on its way. They're in an appropriately sized box and bedding, with a reliable heat source. After every feeding, we're stimulating their genitalia and anuses.

The problem is, they don't seem to be digesting their feedings adequately. Their bellies look like they're darkening and becoming distended. They're peeing well but pooing irregularly -- not even once a day. I spoke to Lee at Henry's Pets, who told me that this condition can be life-threatening. She suggested that I may be feeding them too much, and that every three hours may be too frequent. I also suspect that they heating pad may have been set too low for the first 36 hours, as the babies were cool to the touch.

I've corrected both problems. Can anyone provide further guidance?

[SammysMom]

:thankyoufor helping these little ones! Warmth is of utmost importance for digestion. You might want to try hydration only with sugar water for a couple of feedings and see if the milk line disappears. They are on GM formula at this point, right?

[SammysMom]

Could you post pics including one of their tummies or at least one of their tummies? If you can't post, you can email them to me at vfwpost7666@sbcglobal.net

[reyhoward]

Thank you, SammysMom. =^) I'll revert to the hydration solution for the next one or two feedings. You mention sugar solution: Do you mean the 1 tsp salt + 3 tsp sugar + 1 quart water? Or are you advising that I not include the salt?

I understand what you're saying regarding warmth. My biggest question is regarding calibrating warmth is, how warm should the babies feel to my hand when I pick them up for a feeding? Slightly cool, neutral, slightly warm, more-than-slightly warm? What I'm looking for is a practical, real-world translation of the "incubate at 99 degrees" principle.

Here's a photo of one of the females, taken just a few minutes ago. The other's belly is less dark and less distended, but still with a similar look:

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[SammysMom]

That is dark. They should feel warm to the touch, but not too warm. Do you have them in a plastic container with the heating pad under half of it? Generally, setting the heating pad on low is what we recommend. You might also want to add a sock filled with uncooked rice or dried beans that you can heat in the microwave for 20 seconds at a time for them to snuggle with. If you put multiple layers of fleece in, they are able to burrow or climb up to get either closer or farther from the heat or if too warm they can get off of it with the pad under only half of the container. Definitely spread out the feedings farther than 3 hours, probably 4 hours would work for them if they are eating the correct amount. Do you have weights in grams on them? They would need to eat 5 - 7% of their weight in formula at each feeding.

[reyhoward]

Plastic container with heating pad under half: Yes. I had the pad on low, but their bodies were cool to the touch so I increased it to medium. They're warmer now, but closer to neutral than warm. I don't have weights in grams -- Lee at Henry's Pets let me know I'd need a reliable gram scale, so I'm working on that. To clarify re the 5% rule: So they'll need at each feeding 5-7% in cc's of their weight in grams? For example, if one weighs 50 grams, that baby will need 50 * 5-7% = 2.5-3.5 cc's at each feeding?

[SammysMom]

Exactly! Are you near a Walmart? Or maybe an Aldi? I have seen them at Aldi, but not always. Walmart on the other hand seems to always have them in their kitchen department.

[reyhoward]

Walmarts are scarce in most of Los Angeles. I'll find a scale, though. Thank you again!

[Milo's Mom]

Bed Bath and Beyond? Any kind of kitchen gadget store? Maybe even a decent grocery store.

[SammysMom]

You are very welcome. Please post when you see a change. If it doesn't seem like the hydration alone is enough, you can maybe start with diluted formula. Those bellies need to come down a bit though. Do you have any infant Gax-X? aka simethicone

[farrelli]

Yes, I'd get the gas-x. This is really very dangerous. I'd also gently massage their bellies and sides, ideally when half submerged in a warm water bath. I think that Nancy (one of our best members) also suggests gentle patting.

Also, please see the proper feeding technique thread/video. It's super important. If you ever hear clicking, we need to know about it immediately:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?36777-PROPER-FEEDING-TECHNIQUE!!

[reyhoward]

Milo's Mom: I've located a good scale, I'll have it and syringes tomorrow.

SammysMom and Farrelli: The good news for the evening is that both of the two little girls peed and pooed after their 6pm hydration (hydration only, no goat's milk+yogurt formula). Obviously happy about that development. =^) FYI, at the recommendation of Lee at Henry's Pets, I included a small amount of apple juice in the hydration -- she recommended it as a natural laxative. I don't have Gas-X -- given the bowel movements, do you still recommend it?

Farrelli: I can't get that feeding video to play. Even the stills are informative, though -- thanks for the recommendation.

Everyone: The bad news for the evening is that the little boy of the threesome has passed since the 6pm hydration. =^( =^( =^( Not at all happy about that -- I've shed quite a few tears over it, even though he was in my life for just 72 short hours. The appearance of both the abdomens and the mustard-yellow bowel movements of the girls, though, suggest that something else was going on with the little boy (which doesn't make me any happier, but eases some of the guilt I'm feeling). He was more listless than the girls from the get-go. His abdomen had gone dark well under 24 hours after we found the nest -- and unlike the girls', was darker and distended mostly on one side. Finally, this morning he actually *did* have a bowel movement -- but rather than mustard yellow, the poo was more like a bright orange, with white bits in it that didn't look at all like food. Add to all this the height from which the nest fell, and the loud noise it made when it hit our roof -- and I'm wondering whether he sustained some internal injuries that set the odds against him?

Regardless, thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. =^)

[Mommaluvy]

[QUOTE=reyhoward;dd to all this the height from which the nest fell, and the loud noise it made when it hit our roof -- and I'm wondering whether he sustained some internal injuries that set the odds against him?

Regardless, thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. =^)[/quote].


When you said that about dark bellies that was what I thought. I am betting that he did have internal injuries . You did what you could. Don't have guilt :)

I am sorry for your loss though. It's never easy.

[reyhoward]

Mommaluvy: Thank you. =^)

[reyhoward]

Hi and thanks to anyone following! =^) Today is a week since the nest of three babies fell from the sky. The week has brought sad news, happy news, and lots of learning.

The new piece of sad news is that a few days ago, several hours after the little boy passed, one of the little girls followed him. It was especially crushing given that it meant the remaining baby no longer had nestmates. Burying sweet little furry things is a big fat bummer. =^(

The happy news is that the second little girl is doing great! Eating like a champ, and pooing perfect little mustard yellow morsels immediately after or between every feeding. Very squirmy and active during mealtimes, and very contentedly curled up and snoozing in between. She weighed 49 grams first thing this morning, so she's getting 5% = 2.5ccs every four hours. She's been on 3/4 whole goat's milk, 1/4 whole goat's milk yogurt -- Fox Valley formula arrives today.

Here's what I've learned, from online resources, this message board, Tim at Fox Valley, or Lee at Henry's Pets...

1) Rehydrate first, even if you've gotten them immediately after the mishap which delivered them (which we did). I'm pretty sure that that little boy sustained internal injuries during the nest fall. But I wonder whether the little girl who passed (and maybe the little boy, too) might still be with us if we hadn't immediately added the stress of a new diet to that (a) the mishap, (b) mama's sudden absence, and (c) the drastic change of environment.

2) Keep the nest box at a high enough temperature that the babies are quite warm to the touch. I've found that to be a much more practical guideline than the 99-degree rule.

3) It's okay to revert to rehydration fluid or skip a feeding altogether if the babies aren't digesting their meal well enough to excrete regularly.

4) Warm-water baths after feedings/rehydrations are a great way to stimulate excretion.

5) Same goes for a little apple juice. (It seems to me that 3, 4, and 5 put together helped our healthy girl turn a big corner a few days ago.)

6) If baby is still squirmy and mouthing things after she's been fed according to the 5% rule, give her more until either she settles down or we hit 7%.

That's it from me. Pics to follow. =^)

Thanks again to everyone who shared their wisdom, either on the phone or online!

[reyhoward]

Here's Dolly. The photo was taken a few hours ago, right after a feeding. (This is the cloth I use to dry her with -- the cloth she sleeps on doesn't have loops. =^)

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[lennysmom]

Oh little Dolly is so cute.:Love_Icon I'm sorry to read about her siblings not making it, but I am glad to read this little girl is doing well - she looks great! :thumbsup
If I had to guess, I'd say the other little ones probably had internal injuries of some sort, especially after such a high fall. But you've saved one and that is wonderful!:)

Sounds like you have a good handle on the feeding, just make sure you always use the proper feeding technique - these little ones can aspirate so easily. The easiest way I found to do it is to lay the baby across your hand, belly down and head up.
Also, make sure you transition to any new formula slowly as sometimes making a quick transition can cause digestive problems. Which Fox Valley did you get? There has been some issues a few members have had with one form of it causing constipation, although I think the babies might have been a little younger. I'm sure members with more expertise will chime in later.
You are doing a great job with little Dolly. :thumbsup

[reyhoward]

Thanks, lennysmom! Yes Dolly is a cutie -- they all are, aren't they? =^)

Thanks for the pointer re feeding position. As I mentioned, she's sleeping really well -- but when I wake her up for feeding time.. Well, let's just say that she's a veritable Squirmin' German. She gobbles down her formula, but all four legs are moving more or less constantly during mealtimes -- there's no way she'd stay on the palm of my hand. So I hold her upright, gently but firmly, with her head up a bit. If you have any other ideas I'd love to hear them!

I know from raising dogs about gentle transitions to new diets. And I'm particularly concerned about constipation with Dolly! So I retained a bit of apple juice for the first few feedings with the Fox Valley formula (the higher-fat one for smaller babies) -- and I'm keeping a small amount of the whole goat's-milk yogurt in the mix for now as well. I'm happy to report that she's continued pooping like a champ, right through the transition.

Thanks for the encouragement as well -- she's a hard one to resist taking care of! As I posted today on Facebook... "Wanna make me your slave? Be small, furry, helpless, and irresistibly cute. See photo above for the standard." =^)

[Mommaluvy]

She is beautiful. Good job. And sorry for the others . I am raising a male just about 5weeks .


I believe I read that TSB is no longer reccomending FV for young ones. Due to bloat issues.

Esbelec WITH probiotics is what I think that are reccomend

[Shewhosweptforest]

:thumbsup Excellent job reyhoward! These poor babies and momma:( had the misfortune of falling from the sky at least they were lucky to have fallen into your hands :grouphug Your synopsis on what you've learned was right on the money :grin3 You're doing awesome....please take comfort in the fact that the little brother and sister who passed were at least safe, cared for, and loved :Love_Icon as we've all said here one time or another "who could ask for more?" I just hope the mother survived, too. :shakehead These tragedies are so hard to witness...but at least you know you made a difference...one little fur butt at a time :grouphug :thankyou

:Welcome :Love_Icon

:Love_Icon Adorable Dolly :Love_Icon

[SammysMom]

Great job!!!:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug Dolly is a dollie!:grin3

[Shewhosweptforest]

She is beautiful. Good job. And sorry for the others . I am raising a male just about 5weeks .


I believe I read that TSB is no longer reccomending FV for young ones. Due to bloat issues.

Esbelec WITH probiotics is what I think that are reccomend


Yes FV for pinkies is not recommended ...Dolly should be ok ...but I would start the first several feeding 75% Goats milk / 25% FV ...then 50/50 ...I would probably keep it at 50/50... Just in case ...at least for another week or two. Then go FV ...you can always dilute the FV too, 1 part FV, 3 parts water. Also, one trick I've was taught here...with FV, make it ahead, do not make it and then immediately use it...it really takes alot of mixing and shaking to fully dissolve it:thumbsup Keep up the good work :Love_Icon