Need Advice - sick squirrel

[therey76]

New here, found this because I was searching by symptoms for our squirrel Chippy. Gray, maybe 4-5 months old. This morning I found him fairly lethargic in his sleep sack. When my son tried to handle him, he made this really awful groaning grunting noise. He isn't moving much, just sort of sits there with his head down. And his legs appear to be sort of "wonky". After searching the boards it looks like it may be MBD. So I got a Tums, crushed it up and made a paste and my husband spoon fed it to him but he will not eat anything else. That was about an hour ago... still the same, tho he did sit and clean his tail for a moment. I am located outside St Louis MO in case there's anyone local who can help!

[therey76]

PS - we feed him a diet of fresh veggies and fruits, some unsalted roasted almonds, some sticks and deer antlers on occasion, these nutballs a couple times a week we found at a pet store, and walnuts, pecans, cashews and a time or two he has had pistachios I think that my kids gave him. I now we need to get the rat blocks/chow, which I am going to do today.

[Fireweed]

How old is he? Definitely sounds like MBD. You've probably seen this already but I'll repost it here. Follow it to the letter.
Hoping he shows more improvement soon! :grouphug


Emergency Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease (updated 3-31-09)

Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

You will need:

--Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
--a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.

Long-Term Treatment for MBD

The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093 (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16093)) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

More Tips
MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

(http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=403417)

[Fireweed]

A really top quality block that most of us feed our squirrels can be bought online at www.henryspets.com (http://www.henryspets.com) They are called HHBs. Most squirrels like them more than other blocks.
You can find Kaytee Forti-diet for mice/rats (blue bag) or Oxbow Regal Rat or Mazuri blocks or Harlan Teklad at pet stores or online, as well. They aren't as high-quality as HHBs but they will work. If you're not sure about the blocks you find, ask us. Not all blocks have the appropriate ingredients for squirrels.

[therey76]

I did see that, yes, thank you! I gave him the Tums as soon as I did... tho I asked my husband and he said that the package says 1000mg. I did not give him the whole thing on account of that, I didn't want to make it worse. Do I leave him now, and give him another tomorrow? I am praying heartily that he recovers. It will break my heart if he doesn't... :(

As for the blocks, we have petsmart and petco here locally, and petsmart at least has the Oxbow rat food so I figure I will get that for now and order the HHBs. There were some things on the list of the healthy diet sheet that were in the avoid column that we do feed him often, so now I feel horrible. here I was thinking that giving him all these fresh veg and fruits we were doing him good! Hopefull he pulls through and I can right my wrong!

[stepnstone]

It does have the symptoms, causes (diet) and sounds like Mbd.
"Spoon" feeding him is not going to be a good way to get the
required calcium into him per mbd protocol.
Do you have a syringe? (w/o needle) Preferably a 1cc
Most drug stores will give you one, just tell them you are trying
to dose meds for a cat.

[CritterMom]

Getting a lot into him today is okay, but ideally, you want to break the 500mg of calcium per day up into multiple small doses fed throughout the day, with the idea of trying to keep the amount they are getting somewhat level, rather than spiking up with a big dose and then nothing more until the next day.

[therey76]

I meant eyedropper, I'm sorry. He actually swallowed it, so I assumed we were good there. I am going to run to the pharmacy and get some more Tums, and look for 500mg tabs. Then I should just give it to him a couple times throughout the day tomorrow, correct? I don't want to screw up, I feel so horrible already! He is so lively and active and cute and friendly, and today he is just not Chippy. WAH! Thank you everyone for your input and help.

[CritterMom]

Make sure you get the fruit flavored Tums - squirrels don't like peppermint! Yes, just give it to him off and on all through the day and up until bedtime.

[Fireweed]

As for the blocks, we have petsmart and petco here locally, and petsmart at least has the Oxbow rat food so I figure I will get that for now and order the HHBs. There were some things on the list of the healthy diet sheet that were in the avoid column that we do feed him often, so now I feel horrible. here I was thinking that giving him all these fresh veg and fruits we were doing him good! Hopefull he pulls through and I can right my wrong!
If you can get a couple kinds, even better. Some squirrels will hate one, tolerate another. We can help you with tricks to get him to eat them if need be.

In regards to the healthy diet. Try to pick things from column 1 first, then 2, then 3. Don't fill him up with things from column 3, for example. Fruits should be mostly treats. And no nuts or 'sticks' or nutballs while he recovers! Be strong! Resist the temptation! :poke:tilt

[therey76]

I'm going to ask the question I just don't want to admit could be possible - could he not recover despite the Tums daily and the change in diet? I don't even want to think it but I guess I have to consider it.

[CritterMom]

He's young. That helps. Don't get ahead of yourself, okay?

When you go to the www.henryspets.com site, they also have what is called an "MBD kit" which includes the good food (full sized bag) plus some baggies of both unflavored powdered calcium and of some vitamins and a couple other things. The powdered calcium is nice - it has no flavor and is strong so the volume of what he needs isn't that much - and it is easy to hide in food. I would prefer that type calcium for the long term treatment over the Tums just because the Tums has other stuff in it (like flavoring and stuff to make it stick together in tablet form). Tums, however, are just fine for now.

Do not use your own calcium supplements - the ones you take - because they have too much vitamin D in them. Tums has none, and the powdered calcium carbonate has none either.

[therey76]

Ok, one day at a time... and some prayers!! I'll make sure to order that as well. Thanks for this forum, I feel better knowing that I can ask questions to people who are knowledgeable rather than guess. Squirrels are definitely outside my typical petcare knowledge base of dogs and cats.

[stepnstone]

I'm going to ask the question I just don't want to admit could be possible - could he not recover despite the Tums daily and the change in diet? I don't even want to think it but I guess I have to consider it.

Yes, mbd can be deadly but it appears as if you caught it in time and he can
recover as long as you stay on top of the mbd protocol.
We have treated many compromised squirrels with mbd far worse off then your
baby who are living on their happy little lives as if nothing had ever happened.
Think positive, act positive, leave no room for negativity.

[therey76]

That is so encouraging, thank you for your reply :) I am ordering the MDB kit right now on express shipping. Until then Oxbow and Tums. Can I feed him items on List 1 of the veggies? Or just stick to the rat chow until the MDB kit arrives?

[farrelli]

The veggies are good too, but block and Tums are the most important. Block should be the mainstay of the diet.

Btw, you understand that the calcium should be given through the day and not just in one big dose, right?

[therey76]

I do now yes, I did give him that initial dose but the instructions and a post or 2 above say to spread it out - 500mg daily for the first week.

I will stick with the chow and Tums until we get the Kit. Hopefully by then he's feeling better. I need to get one of those rice buddies I guess too. Not sure if I can buy or just make my own yet, but going to check into that next.

[CritterMom]

Actually, if it is safe to offer him a heating pad (if there s a way to do this without him being able to chew it) you could do that - they sometimes gravitate to the heat - I think it makes their bones feel better and is soothing. That is the idea of the rice buddy - just supplemental heat. If your house is cool it might be a good idea.

[farrelli]

Making your own is super simple, just put some rice or beans in a sock, tie it off, nuke it for a bit, squish it around to avoid hot spots, and hand it over.

[CritterMom]

Making your own is super simple, just put some rice or beans in a sock, tie it off, nuke it for a bit, squish it around to avoid hot spots, and hand it over.

DRY, UNCOOKED rice or beans - LOL!

[therey76]

Wow, ok, that IS simple - I sometimes overcomplicate in my attempt to do the right thing :) When he came to us, we actually covered a rubber hot water bottle in a sock and that was OK. But now, I think he would prob chew it - tho maybe not in this state. I will stick with the rice! Thanks everyone!

[CritterMom]

Wow, ok, that IS simple - I sometimes overcomplicate in my attempt to do the right thing :) When he came to us, we actually covered a rubber hot water bottle in a sock and that was OK. But now, I think he would prob chew it - tho maybe not in this state. I will stick with the rice! Thanks everyone!

Make sure you knead it with your hands for a few minutes before you give it to him. Microwaves do some funky things when they heat - one part will be cold and another burning hot. You don't want to do damage, so squeeze, squeeze, squeeze before you give it to him.

[therey76]

Sock deployed. I'm going to move his cage I think to a warmer spot that's sunnier in the house as well. Thought that might help, and it's still in an area I can see all day while I work to keep an eye on him and talk to him. Thanks again everyone, very much appreciated.

[Milo's Mom]

If you go buy more TUMS, please make sure it does NOT have Vitamin D added.

Good luck!!:grouphug

[island rehabber]

If you go buy more TUMS, please make sure it does NOT have Vitamin D added.

Good luck!!:grouphug

:thumbsup good point, especially if you get the Henry's Blocks which are already balanced for VitD.
JUST to be on the sure side, I would gently feel his body up and down, methodically, and each limb right out to the paw, to make sure he has not sprained or hurt himself jumping around being a squirrel. His behavior is consistent with MBD, yes, but it's rare at his young age. So let's be certain that he did not sustain some injury which is making him like this. Look for swelling, a hot feeling, or cold feeling in all his limbs.

[Fireweed]

IR is right. We shoulda mentioned that earlier. :thumbsup

Curious: did you guys raise him since he was a baby? Or did you find him recently?

[therey76]

Well, he is the same today. Curled up in a ball with his head under him in the front. but his tail is not curled over him like usual in his sleep sack. He isn't even getting up into it anymore. He isn't eating, isn't drinking other than the eyedroppers of water we give him. He will raise his head occasionally when I talk to him but otherwise just sits there. If you try to pick him up he groans and grunts and makes this noise that is awful. Normally he jumps on your arms and runs up and down your arms, etc. I havent noticed a seizure. Getting ready to give his first dose of Tums for the day. (I checked and do not see VitD anywhere on the package). Could it be something else?

[therey76]

Also, we got him as a small baby... had him since march I think, maybe April. He was found on a sidewalk alone in the city. Someone put him in a box and gave him to my husband since we live in the country and we've had him since.

[island rehabber]

can you give us a quick run-down of the actual foods he would eat most often, in the greatest quantity? Not "veggies" but specifics, like "carrots, 'peas" etc.....In the meantime, continue the MBD protocol to the letter. It will save his life if that's what this is, and it certainly will not hurt him if it isn't.

[squirrelmommy22]

I am not an expert here, but just saw he is not eating any thing and wondered if she should give him nutrical? Just a suggestion as I have seen it recommended in the past.
Prayers going up for Chippy.:grouphug

[therey76]

Almost daily:
Kale
Spinach
Carrots

Occasionally other veggies from the garden like broccoli, zucchini, fresh green beans, cucumber. i think that's been it.

Fruit
Cherry
Watermelon
Grapes when we have them
Canteloupe at times
Strawberries once in awhile
Blueberries often

Then i have some applewood sticks he gets a few times a week. Some nutballs I bought from Petsmart called Kaytee healthy bits. And I hate to admit that he would sometimes get a Lays chip or 2. Apparently the guys that gave him to my husband in the office fed him those and my kids gave him one here and there as a treat which is horrible Im sure. Also he had 1 or 2 raw walnuts a few weeks ago. I have roasted unsalted almonds he gets a few times a week, sometimes walnuts or pecans as well.

[CritterMom]

Was he ever fed formula?

He really is a classic MBD case - it usually strikes shortly after they wean. They get the calcium they need from mama's milk and from the replacement formulas we feed the babies, but after they stop consuming that, if you do not replace that calcium with something like the blocks you have ordered, it doesn't take terribly long for them to develop it. In the wild they get the calcium they need - in captivity, if the finder doesn't know any better, they usually not only do not get the calcium, they end up getting fed foods that actually COUNTERACT what calcium they get, making things worse. Corn, sunflower seeds, nuts - all of the stuff a pet store will tell you to feed them, are actually robbing their little bodies of calcium.

So yes, it could be something else, but given his history, MBD would be my first three choices of possibility...

[therey76]

We fed him cats milk on the advice of someone... that was for the first few weeks we had him. Then we got some squirrel food in a bag, but I barely gave him that and opted for the fresh items and addl nuts I listed. I just managed to get a few dropperfuls of Tums liquid into him, but he bit my son pretty good. He does not want to be touched! Time for the gloves... I'm just worried that whatever it is, if he's not eating and drinking otherwise he will die from that. Could it be a UTI instead possibly? I wouldnt think hed be constipated cons the diet he's been getting but I am far from an expert.

Also, worrying about Chippy is consuming my entire day! I cannot concentrate on work because I'm stressed about his health! Who knew I would become this attached.

[CritterMom]

Yes, the appetite loss is also a symptom. You can try a couple things.

The meal replacement shakes for people - Ensure - aren't too bad a stop gap - plus they are sweet and a lot of times they LIKE it. You will likely have to give it to him by syringe. Another option is Nutri-cal - it is for dogs and cats that are ill and need a big boost of nutrition - it is sort of a gel, and some squirrels like that. It is something you would find at a chain pet store like Petco (I would call around).

Fluids are important - watermelon can be a good way to keep them hydrated if he will eat it.

[therey76]

I have watermelon in the fridge, and I found some nutrical from when one of our dogs got Parvo (who knew it was in raccoon crap, I DO NOW!) but it was dried up. I bet he would love some vanilla Ensure. I will try that, too. THANK YOU! All of you :) I am going to try and get a pic and post here so you can see how he sits. Just thought it might be a good visual.

[CritterMom]

You are welcome. I believe you ordered the MBD kit from Henry's? I know it has some of the vitamins that she uses in the blocks in it, and the purpose is to make kind of a do-it-yourself squirrel version of ensure with banana and a bunch of other stuff that is more geared to a squirrel and less to a human. If the recipe isn't in the kit I KNOW she would be happy to give it to you. There is probably an email on the site; here at TSB you can private message her to: 4skwerlz.

[therey76]

Well, he just ate a hunk of watermelon for me. Wouldn't eat a second piece though. I'll take it for now. 238755

[stepnstone]

You really need to get a (1cc) syringe...
Mbd is painful, have you given anything for pain?
Controlling the pain has been proven time and time
again to get better responses in these cases.
He can be given liquid infant ibufprofen but we need
a weight to dose and you need a proper tool (syringe)
to administer.

[therey76]

I have no idea what he weighs, but I can see if my husband and son can get him onto our food scale when he gets home. I didn't know he could get Ibuprofen but I can see where that would make a big difference in controlling the pain. Soon as I get his weight I will respond. Thank you!

[stepnstone]

I have no idea what he weighs, but I can see if my husband and son can get him onto our food scale when he gets home. I didn't know he could get Ibuprofen but I can see where that would make a big difference in controlling the pain. Soon as I get his weight I will respond. Thank you!

You can place him in a container of sorts, weigh and then weigh container
and subtract container weight.
All the grunting/squeaks, including biting is telling you he is in pain!
He's not going to want to eat when in pain the same as we don't.
Go to a pharmacy/drug store and get a syringe as I suggested earlier.
Just do not tell them it's for a squirrel.
And remember it's infant ibuprofen that you want to use.

[CritterMom]

You can place him in a container of sorts, weigh and then weigh container
and subtract container weight.
All the grunting/squeaks, including biting is telling you he is in pain!
He's not going to want to eat when in pain the same as we don't.
Go to a pharmacy/drug store and get a syringe as I suggested earlier.
Just do not tell them it's for a squirrel.
And remember it's infant ibuprofen that you want to use.

If you go right to the pharmacist - they are not out in the store - and tell him or her that you are trying to feed formula to a tiny kitten and you really need a 1cc syringe.

[farrelli]

Does he have a heat source? Heat can soothe MBD. Putting a heating pad set on low half under his container (so he can't chew it and can move off of the warm spot if too hot) can help. If you don't have one, we have other suggestions.

A little molasses can also help, rubbed on the gums if necessary. It can stimulate both hunger and thirst.

If he doesn't like the Ensure, do try the NutraCal. Seems that some like one or the other but often not both.

[therey76]

I put a rice buddy in there but it seems to get cool fast. I think I will try the heating pad. We have one, I just need to wrap in in a towel and try to make sure the cord is not accessible. Tho in his condition I don't see him chewing much of anything. We have a little hometown pharmacy, I can run by there they are friendly.

[RubySquirrel]

This happened to my squirrel a few months ago. the following it what i did

Heating pad( under a felt cloth) just make sure he can get away from the heat if it gets to hot
one tums tablet smashed mixed with a small amount of apple juice 4-5cc every 2 hours if he is not using the bath room on his own you need to express his bladder.
I called every vet around me for help i found one to help with Tramadol and a three day dex treatment. some people don't like dex but it does help with inflammation.
My squirrel was not eating so we gave her fox valley formula and then ordered henerys blocks ( the picky eaters type)
you want to make the bottom of the cage as soft as possible.

We did this for 3 weeks.



She now eats only fruits and veggies ( and henerys blocks for the vitamins and calcium ) we give her tums to chew on ( just incase)

If any of this is wrong please correct me for this person

[stepnstone]

I put a rice buddy in there but it seems to get cool fast. I think I will try the heating pad. We have one, I just need to wrap in in a towel and try to make sure the cord is not accessible. Tho in his condition I don't see him chewing much of anything. We have a little hometown pharmacy, I can run by there they are friendly.

The sock buddy is only meant for a substitute quick fix, as you have
discovered it's only a temporary fix and not adequate for long term care.
A heating pad really needs to be the no automatic shut off type but one
that isn't is better then nothing as long as your watching it to keep it
turned on.
It should be on low, placed half under his cage, not in with him.

If he has hanging bedding/nest, lower it to the floor so he does not have
to climb. You do not want him to take a fall. Mbd causes bones to be brittle
and he does not need to deal with a broken bone on top of everything else.

Another thing. Treating mbd is hands on! His daily intake of calcium is not a
choice if you expect him to get through this. Administering by syringe is the
only sure way you are going to be able to dose him and dose correctly
especially if he is not eating on his own.
Control the pain, keep him comfortable on heat, stick to the mbd protocol.



I called every vet around me for help i found one to help with Tramadol and a three day dex treatment.
In a perfect world everyone would have access to veterinary meds to treat
the injuired. Most don't.

[therey76]

Ok, I do have a regular old heating pad I can put under his cage. That is great, then I don't have to worry about him chewing it or other hazards. The bottom is just plastic so that should work well to heat up half of it for him. I will lower his sack for him too, he really loves it.

I have been trying to use a towel and gloves now to handle him to get the dropper in his mouth to feed him the Tums liquid. He is really not loving the handling, so it's hard but will try to be extra careful since his bones are brittle. Poor guy :(

[farrelli]

Have you tried seeing if he likes the Tums as is? Some think they're a treat.

[Fireweed]

I have been trying to use a towel and gloves now to handle him to get the dropper in his mouth to feed him the Tums liquid. He is really not loving the handling, so it's hard but will try to be extra careful since his bones are brittle. Poor guy :(
Are you wrapping him Burrito-style? That might help if you're not doing it already. Not too tight but tight enough he can't get out of it.

Poor little guy. The heating pad will help him feel better. Were you able to get Infant Ibuprofen?

[stepnstone]

Ok, I do have a regular old heating pad I can put under his cage. That is great, then I don't have to worry about him chewing it or other hazards. The bottom is just plastic so that should work well to heat up half of it for him. I will lower his sack for him too, he really loves it.

I have been trying to use a towel and gloves now to handle him to get the dropper in his mouth to feed him the Tums liquid. He is really not loving the handling, so it's hard but will try to be extra careful since his bones are brittle. Poor guy :(

Old style heating pads are generally automatic shut off after a period of time,
try to make sure to monitor it so his heat can stay consistent. Remember only
half under so he can move to the cooler side if he gets too warm.
Many of us will wrap "burrito" style when handling with just their little heads
sticking out. It keeps them from flailing around with their limbs and allows much
better control when having to treat.

edit: Fireweed, like minds... :thumbsup

[therey76]

Ok I have Advil Infant Drops and 1cc syringes. They are in the process of weighing him now... what is the dosage, is it per lb?

Also, I got some pediasure but after opening it up when I got home, I noticed it has 30% VitD in it. Is that going to be OK?

[CritterMom]

Just post his weight and one of us will send you the dose. No offense, but are you completely certain you understand how to read a syringe? Many people don't and we have had overdoses because folks didn't want to say anything. Don't do that!

What is the pediasure? Is that for hydration or what? Or did you get it instead of ensure??

[therey76]

1 lb 1 ounce. I have the 1cc syringe, holds 10cc. I have used these before with puppies. First time for a squirrel!

[therey76]

Someone said to get Ensure, I got the child version since they only had chocolate adult and I thought vanilla might be better.

[CritterMom]

I think it will be fine. You have the dosing for the infant ibuprophen in your PM box. :thumbsup

Warm the pediasure up - around 105 degrees is good.

[stepnstone]

I have the 1cc syringe, holds 10cc. I have used these before with puppies. First time for a squirrel!


Whoa, wait a minunte...
A 1cc syringe does not hold 10cc's, if it is a 1cc syringe that is all it holds.

[CritterMom]

Whoa, wait a minunte...
A 1cc syringe does not hold 10cc's, if it is a 1cc syringe that is all it holds.

We are trying to thrash this out right now, Step - don't worry.

[stepnstone]

Please, please make sure you understand.
There is a big weight difference between a puppy and a squirrel.
238779

[stepnstone]

We are trying to thrash this out right now, Step - don't worry.

Whew, thank you!
Can't help it, panic sets in...:grin3

[CritterMom]

Whew, thank you!
Can't help it, panic sets in...:grin3

That's okay - I have become really paranoid about this. Therey76 has a 1cc syringe - just couldn't see the decimal point in there. Dosing is all set.

[therey76]

Crisis Averted!! Thank you everyone for all your help. I can admit that I am completely green here! We were able to get it into him, a little Tums mixture afterward. Now I figure we will let him be a bit and see if it helps. heating pad is on under his cage. I hope this makes him a little more open to eating and drinking. We feel horrible because he hates it but I have to give it to him! I'm not letting go without a fight!

[stepnstone]

That's okay - I have become really paranoid about this. Therey76 has a 1cc syringe - just couldn't see the decimal point in there. Dosing is all set.
:thumbsup

With this subject, paranoid is a good thing.

[therey76]

Update: Chippy is hanging in there, about the same but he did eat a rat chip or 2 this morning and some watermelon. I managed to get some pediasure in him with the calcium and ibuprofen dosing (tho he hates the whole entire ordeal every time!). I am not sure if this is good or bad, but he doesn't seem worse, so I guess that is the positive here. he is sleeping a lot, which makes sense I suppose.

[CritterMom]

Oh good; I have been hoping for an update from you. I know it seems like this struck all of a sudden, but it takes time for MBD to develop and it takes time to rectify itself. The fact that he is eating is good. What is a rat chip?

[therey76]

That's sort of what I figured but wanted to update and get any feedback just in case! I got that oxbow regal rat food for him until i get that MBD kit in.

[CritterMom]

Oxbow is actually a fairly good food - most squirrels hate it (of course) - it is good that he eats it. Hopefully he will start eating better and better.

Have you ever given Chippie avocado? You cannot feed them the peel or the pit and need to make sure he can't get to them, but they LOVE the meat and it is a great way to hide the unflavored calcium that is part of the MBD kit. If you can hide the calcium in foods he will eat it makes dosing him a TON easier than wrestling a syringe.

[therey76]

I have not tried that yet but as soon as he seems open to eating regularly again I will try.

I have a question: I kept seeing don't get the tums with vitamin d. So I made sure to read the back and avoid that. But the ensure and pediasure all have vitd in it. Is it still ok to give that to him?

[CritterMom]

I have not tried that yet but as soon as he seems open to eating regularly again I will try.

I have a question: I kept seeing don't get the tums with vitamin d. So I made sure to read the back and avoid that. But the ensure and pediasure all have vitd in it. Is it still ok to give that to him?

Do try the avocado. It is a relatively healthy snack, has lots of good fat, and most of them regard it like an addict regards crack - "GIVE ME MORE!!!" That makes it a great way to hide the calcium - it is a lot better than trying to syringe it into a protesting little squirrel.

The amount of D in human vitamin supplements is quite high. The pediasure and ensure are not SUPPLEMENTS - they are meal replacements, so you are looking at less in the way of vitamins and minerals. Squirrels do NEED D, like every other mammal, but not in the quantity you find in human vitamin supplements (and I bet the reason there is so much in human supplements is that Vit D is cheap - this is why there is so much Vit A in a lot of human supplements - it is dirt cheap...:eek).

[therey76]

Well Chippy did not like the avacado, and I thought it would be a surefire win! Maybe once he's feeling better we will try again. I have offered a few items and the only thing he is intererested in is the watermelon still. We keep giving him the calcium throughout the day, along with pediasure which he loves once we manage to get him to accept it. The noise he emits makes me sad but I keep telling him we are NOT torturing him and it's for his own good :) I am hoping to have the HHBs delivered today and am anxious to see if he will eat it. He is still really sleeping a lot, which I assume is normal. How long should I keep giving the Advil?

[Fireweed]

Try lightly moistening the oxbow in pediasure or even plain water. Some squirrels like softer foods better and since he already takes the pediasure it might be a good way to get him to eat a few 'chips'. :) Hopefully the HHBs arrive! Those are Gold Nuggets. :grin2

I'll let someone else answer your q about the Advil. :thumbsup

[therey76]

So, my MBD package arrived... and he took that block right out of my hand and is going to town on it! He's had it for about 2 minutes and is almost done with it already. I am thrilled!!! Might have some more questions about the other contents, etc, but for now I am enjoying watching him eat :grin3

Thanks again to all who helped me thus far. I know it's not over, but I am feeling a lot more positive today!

[farrelli]

Great to hear! Some many don't like them at first. You're lucky!

[SammysMom]

Yeah!!! :fireworks:Love_Icon:fireworks

[Nancy in New York]

Just read this thread now.
Your little one is in excellent hands, with great suggestions,
and advice. There are no questions that you should ever hesitate to
ask, that's how we all learn.
Slow and steady, you are doing great.
Oh this may have already been stated, but no skin or pit
when you give him the avocado.
Also is that hay that you have for bedding?
A great litter is Care Fresh, very absorbent and
soft. CritterMom just posted a link where they
sell it at a fantastic price, perhaps she can post it here too. :)

:grouphug

[therey76]

This morning Chippy is not alert and active like he was yesterday for the first part of the day. I was disappointed, but I figure we may have days like this. He didn't take the block I offered yet, but I am going to try again in a little bit. Worse comes to worse and I can mix up the nutrition shake. I got some great PM's with additional info so going to just keep at it and pray everyday that he gets a little better until he is his old squirreley self!

[CritterMom]

Well, yesterday he had all that ibuprophen on board and he did just what most of us would do - he felt better so he overdid it. And since you started decreasing his ibuprophen yesterday, today he is probably a little sore. I would give him a dose and see what it does to his appetite.

You are going to have to fiddle with the pain meds. The PERFECT amount leaves him feeling good enough that he wants to eat but not so good that he wants to try out the backflips. I know that sounds mean but since they won't LISTEN and do what you tell them when you ask them to take it easy, unfortunately we have to use a little pain as a limiting device for the overall greater good. Instead of cutting down to 2 doses a day, you might want to do 3 doses but slightly decrease the amount of ibuprophen in each dose. You are just going to have to fiddle with it.

Of course you are speaking to someone who almost had to be re-admitted to the hospital after surgery because I HAD to clean the house when I got home - it was a MESS and I HAD to. :eek :nono

[sandycheeks]

Man I can't tell you how sad all of the MBD threads I see make me. I'm very glad you got this little one the help that he needs. I'm praying for a full recovery. :thumbsup

[stepnstone]

I got some great PM's with additional info so going to just keep at it and pray everyday that he gets a little better until he is his old squirreley self!

therey76, I will caution you to be very careful here...
Many times "behind the lines" / pm'ing in the background has proved to be
counter productive to the well being of a squirrel and often a dangerous practice.
Mistakes can and have been made through this practice regardless of how well
meaning they may have been. Many squirrels have been mis-treated, under
treated and over treated through this practice of back door advising.
Working as a team on open board has been proven to be the most effective
way to avoid these situations.
There is no room for hero's here when it comes to the treatment and welfare
of a squirrel. If one is truly trying to help they should have no problem stating
their suggestions on open board so all that are helping and advising can know
what procedures and treatments are being suggested and can advise (or
dispute) accordingly.

[CritterMom]

therey76, I will caution you to be very careful here...
Many times "behind the lines" / pm'ing in the background has proved to be
counter productive to the well being of a squirrel and often a dangerous practice.
Mistakes can and have been made through this practice regardless of how well
meaning they may have been. Many squirrels have been mis-treated, under
treated and over treated through this practice of back door advising.
Working as a team on open board has been proven to be the most effective
way to avoid these situations.
There is no room for hero's here when it comes to the treatment and welfare
of a squirrel. If one is truly trying to help they should have no problem stating
their suggestions on open board so all that are helping and advising can know
what procedures and treatments are being suggested and can advise (or
dispute) accordingly.


Step, I am guessing all of these PMs are from me and Leigh. Nothing earth shaking, just a little more info and more in depth stuff about MBD protocol and diet ideas.

[therey76]

Step, I am guessing all of these PMs are from me and Leigh. Nothing earth shaking, just a little more info and more in depth stuff about MBD protocol and diet ideas.

Yep, just you two! He is currently eating some healthy veggies and just finished 2 blocks. He is up and alert, so I guess he was just sleepy this morning!

[CritterMom]

Oh, that is good news! Tell him I said to take it easy today - I am just SURE he will listen.

[stepnstone]

Step, I am guessing all of these PMs are from me and Leigh. Nothing earth shaking, just a little more info and more in depth stuff about MBD protocol and diet ideas.

Thanks for the clarification, I can understand that and there's no problem there
but you do know what I'm speaking of and why it sends chills down my back when
someone mentions pm'ing. Carry on...:grin3

[therey76]

I do. I was reading a thread last night about someone's squirrel passing away and she said they got some bad advice via PM. I tend to agree tho, if it was someone random I wouldnt trust it. These guys are too precious to trust just anyone with. I and I am sure everyone else appreciates your warnings!

[stepnstone]

I do. I was reading a thread last night about someone's squirrel passing away and she said they got some bad advice via PM. I tend to agree tho, if it was someone random I wouldnt trust it. These guys are too precious to trust just anyone with. I and I am sure everyone else appreciates your warnings!

Thank you for your understanding. I don't believe anyone purposely hands out
"bad advice," but there are certain meds that don't mix well with other's, foods
that shouldn't be given under certain treatments, a whole array of things that
could go wrong. It can be a problem that's just so unnecessary when one hand
don't know what the other is doing or has done. :grouphug

[therey76]

Chippy is active this morning again, eating his blocks and his "calcium peas" I made from the MBD kit powder. He is looking for more food, so trying to get him to eat more healthy veggies from the diet. I created a monster, so I think it will take some time to get him to like some more of those items!! Slow and steady, he is a different squirrel than one week ago and I have TSB and its awesome members to thank for that :thankyou

[Fireweed]

:alright.gif Keep up the good work! Glad to hear he's more active. :thumbsup
Try all kinds of veggies - and then try them again - and again! Sometimes what they hate one day, they'll eat on another occasion.
Most squirrels can be picky. We gotta be tough and patient and not give in to those little faces begging us for the junk! Easier said than done - I KNOW. :grin2

[sandycheeks]

Just be persistent. They will not starve themselves to death. Only give what you want him to eat. It may take a few days but he will eat eventually.
Good luck.

[Chickenlegs]

I'm so glad your baby is doing better. Keep up those healthy foods!

[stepnstone]

Been looking for a post,:tap
very good news...:thumbsup
Keep up the good work! :grouphug

[therey76]

Thanks everyone for your well wishes! And here's chippy http://youtu.be/CMCNIG5cyQU

[therey76]

I am not sure why there are Christmas figures dancing lol! Freudian slip?! :)

[stepnstone]

I am not sure why there are Christmas figures dancing lol! Freudian slip?! :)

It's a quirk with the site and the emoticons, every time C-M is together
you'll get the dancing chorus line. :dono

[CritterMom]

It's a quirk with the site and the emoticons, every time C-M is together
you'll get the dancing chorus line. :dono

It is C and M - since I am CritterMom and people like to abbreviate it, I like to think of these guys: CM -as my personal backup dancers!

[therey76]

Chippy is still doing better... he is up and around more and is finally accepting more of the healthy veggies like broccoli. Still eating his blocks, too. Now I need to figure out how to keep him satisfied because I swear he's looking at me all day long for food!!! I keep my healthy diet list handy so I can reference it until I know it inside and out. I dont know if its me or what, but I swear his coat seems shinier... wondering if he will ever have a nice bushy tail, too :grin2

Just wanted to update everyone!!

[CritterMom]

As long as he is eating his HHBs and getting acquainted with healthy veggies, you can leave some other dry food in his cage, like the Oxbow or Harlan Teklad or even the Kaytee Forti-diet (though they would below the others in quality IMHO) so that if he is GENUINELY hungry he has something to eat that isn't counter to his diet.

I am not sure if anyone told you, but when they are begging for goodies, NEVER look directly into their eyes. :grin3

This makes me feel so good - we get a lot of sad cases on here that just gnaw at you; seeing someone seek help in time - and get it - and have it be right and having YOU do what needs to be done so quickly and with the sense of urgency that was required - well, let's just say, it is really nice to get the happy ending!

And yes, coat condition and all of that is related to diet - just wait!

[therey76]

You know, he almost ate a piece of Oxbow yesterday evening... but then he was like, meh maybe not! I keep changing it out every other day so it's fresh hoping he might give it a try but not yet. Guess he isn't THAT hungry!

I have to tell you, that sense of urgency really overtook my life for this last week... I am so glad I found this place and all of you helpful people in time to save him :grouphug I literally breathed, slept and ate Chippy and his diet and care! Was totes worth it though.

[sandycheeks]

Yes it is amazing to finally see a happy MBD story on here. Too many times they don't make it.
Hoping to see your baby continue to improve.

[sandycheeks]

Sandy is wild but I was feeding her tons of garbage food. When she came in from her broken arm I finally got her Henry's blocks. Everything changed, her fur grew back in and looked great, she was no longer agressive, it was amazing.
Now all she needs to do is come home. :(

[Fireweed]

therey76, I'm glad you and Chippy found this place in time, too! Now stop hoarding the Chippy klunks all to yerself and share some pics of him already! :poke

[Chickenlegs]

therey76, I'm glad you and Chippy found this place in time, too! Now stop hoarding the Chippy klunks all to yerself and share some pics of him already! :poke

WHAT SHE SAID!

[therey76]

Ok, here you go!! (It is hard getting him to sit still long enough to catch any particular pose! So, decided to feed him and then try LOL!)
239488239489239490

[CritterMom]

How did I miss this!? Look at that cutie boy! Oh, he looks like he is feeling MUCH better!! :thumbsup