Pee, with Blood

[Pointy Tale]

Pee, with Blood on Domestic Rabbit

Hi, would ya’ll help me with a domestic rabbit. The bunny went to the vet two weeks ago (06/10) for a UTI which the vet attributed to the rabbit having too much alfalfa pellets in her diet and was put on Baytril.

Last Tuesday (06/24) she wasn’t having a lot of poopies, so they administered a type of GasX, gave her baby lettuces and of course her Timothy Hay and Timothy Pellets.

They’ve given her several baths to clean her dirty bottom from the UTI.

Thursday, she seemed to be doing much better, more alert and eating her baby lettuces, about 5oz or so and some hay.

Rabbit (adult) weighs 5.8 lbs

Friday, she stopped eating, so they started her on Critical Care on Saturday, but that is slow going.

Today, they woke up and she had a couple of mushy poops, but at least she pooped right. She also ate her baby lettuces and some hay.

Just a few moments ago, she peed blood in her urine I have a photo, if needed. It was blood surrounded by clear liquid.

Afterwards she was more alert and came to the owner when she opened the refrig so she gave her some greens, small handful. Greens are organic and rinsed under water and given wet so she could get some more liquid.

She is drinking from her water bottle.

She finished her Baytril yesterday. Maybe she needs a different antibiotic??

Suggestions from ANYONE please, thanks much,

[Milo's Mom]

Hey PT!! :wave123

Could you please post a pic of the bloody pee and also please list specifically what kind of greens (like the names of the different greens)?

I put a call into a domestic bunny person and these are the items she asked me to ask you for. She will be logging on and looking in the near future, but was hoping to keep the ball rolling and to get the stuff up now.

[CritterMom]

I am NOT a bunny person, but...

Baytril/Cipro are REALLY effective against mostUTIs. When they work, they work with great speed. But they are not effective against them all. SMZ-TMP is a lot slower acting but it is broader spectrum and if this is a UTI that is not reacting to the baytril, I bet it would to the SMZ. It will be a longer course of meds, and you will need to make sure that it is ok for rabbits - they are very different than other animals.

[Pointy Tale]

Milo’s Mom— Hi ya! Thanks for the back-checking and reply :)

Here is a picture of the pee.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac99/PointyTale/Petunia/20140629_114904_zps8e61d1f6.jpeg (http://s889.photobucket.com/user/PointyTale/media/Petunia/20140629_114904_zps8e61d1f6.jpeg.html)

She didn’t know specifically what the greens were, so I had her take a picture of the bag, It appears like it is Baby Spinach / Spring Mix.

Earth Bound Baby Greens (also given, no photo, bag gone)

Olivia’s Organics 50/50 Blend: Baby Spinach / Spring Mix Pix.
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac99/PointyTale/Petunia/20140629_124923_zpsbf521056.jpeg (http://s889.photobucket.com/user/PointyTale/media/Petunia/20140629_124923_zpsbf521056.jpeg.html)

Thank you (and thank you domestic bunny person),
Best,
PT

[Pointy Tale]

CritterMom— Hi, if Baytril/Cipro are effective and it’s been the two weeks, you’re thinking that maybe the change in meds?? So, that leads me two questions (forgive my ignorance)

1. What is SMZ-TMP?
2. How can we determine IF it’s okay for bunnies?

[Milo's Mom]

According to the House Rabbit Society bunnies can take SMZ-TMP.

SMZ-TMP is Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole or co-trimoxazole and is an antibiotic used in the treatment of a variety of bacterial, fungal and protozoal infections. It consists of 1 part trimethoprim to 5 parts sulfamethoxazole.

Brand names would be Septra, Bactrim, Sulfatrim.

I also forwarded (via-email) the stuff you just posted to the domestic bunny person just in case she has not yet logged on.

[Pointy Tale]

Milo’s Mom— okay thank you, I will pass along the information about the SMZ-TMP. Thanks. Appreciate the back-working on the bunny person too.

She wanted to know if it absolutely necessary to do an x-ray?

Hey there CritterMom— Thank You!!! :)

[Milo's Mom]

Milo’s Mom— okay thank you, I will pass along the information about the SMZ-TMP. Thanks. Appreciate the back-working on the bunny person too.

She wanted to know if it absolutely necessary to do an x-ray?

Hey there CritterMom— Thank You!!! :)


You are very welcome. :thumbsup

Not sure about the x-ray; however, if this was my bunny and I was going through this I would at this point ask the vet about doing an x-ray.....just makes it easier to see stuff not normally able to be seen. Know what I mean??

The bunny lady was in the middle of something when I called her so it may take her a bit to log on, but she said she would. Keep checking back PT!!

[Runestonez]

I would def suggest an X-ray.
A couple of different things could be happening here.

How old is the bunn?
Spayed/neutered?

OK...
Bunns can develop a build up crystals and/or calcium in their bladder.
The build up of calcium is called sludge. If it a bad case the bunn may not pass it in their urine and the vet may have to flush the bladder. This build up can cause irritation...leading to blood in the urine. This will be visible with an x-ray.
Was your bunns urine milky or chalky before this all started?

With bunns that are not spayed or neutered...they are more prone to developing various forms of cancer. (90% in females and 80% in males)
Not to cause you more worry...but the last time I saw this in one of my own bunns...it was in a rescue bunn that hadn't been spayed until she was 3 years old...when they did the spay they found she had advanced uterine cancer that has metasisized to her abdominal wall. So some form of tumour is also possible. Again an x-ray should show this.

Here is a link to our website that has nutritional info for pet bunns...it is a package we give to bunn owners...it may be of some help to you.
http://ontariorabbits.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Full-Info-Package.pdf

If the anti-biotics haven't worked...I would def suggest an x-ray!

[Liza]

I would change the greens she is eating also, and go with a butter lettuce or romaine,. Spinach (especially baby spinach) is very high in oxalic acid which is very bad for rabbits.. it is toxic to them and causes kidney damage. It can be fed, very sparingly as part of an overall balanced diet, but I wouldn't suggest it for a little feller that already has urinary troubles.. If she has been eating a lot of spinach over time, it could even be the reason for the blood.. Oxalic acid reacts with calcium from other sources and forms oxylates, which can form the "sludge"that Runestonez mentioned - but it can also form sharp crystalline kidney stones. Four things I know are super high in oxalic acid are spinach, chard, mustard greens and parsley- makes sure you avoid those until you have this figured out, and then only feed them once in a while, if at all.

[Pointy Tale]

Milo’s Mom— oh yes, I completely understand about the x-ray as well.


Runestonez— hi ya, thanks for the reply with such GREAT and DETAILED information, very much appreciated, which I am passing on to the owner.

AGE: The family began fostering the bunny 4 years ago and her ago is now estimated to be 9 years old.

SPAY STATUS: It is UNKNOWN IF she is spayed or not, we tend to think NOT SPAYED.

WOW, that is a comprehensive package you attached, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, VERY NICE OF YOU and REALLY APPRECIATE IT. :)


Liza— Hi there, thanks for the reply. I thought that about the baby spinach about the oxalic acid thingy, but didn’t know if it was only for squirrels, this IS such GOOD information to know. I will make sure to pass on the information about avoiding the spinach, chard, mustard greens and parsley, at least for now. :)


The ingredient list from the back of the package finally. Here it goes: Spinach, Tango, Lolla Rosa, Red and Green Romaine, Red and Green Oak, Red and Green Chard, Mizuna, Radicchio, Frissee, Beet Greens, Arugula, Tat-Soi, Red Mustard, Kale, Collards. Ingredients vary in each package.

[Pointy Tale]

Hi, I forwarded all the info to her and I have stressed as loudly as I can that the rabbit should have x-rays and at the least she should put a call into her vet. She said she would do the x-rays, if it wasn't $200 for x-ray, plus additional fees to sedate the rabbit and then bring the rabbit out from sedation.

Here are the replies—

Her husband wanted to know, if when a bunnies get older, do their digestive systems just slow down. I guess he’s trying to ask if this is normal with aging???


She said her mom was there earlier and didn’t think it was blood, but rather from the greens, the beet greens in the mix?


• AGE: She says she doesn’t know how old she is, she has been fostering her since May of 2010. [PT’s note rabbit was “estimated” by person handing her over to be between 5-6 years of age in 2010.]

• Spay: Can’t be positive on, she believes she was told that the Rabbit had been spayed but did NOT come with any medical records. [PT’s note: She was not spayed yet when transfer took place from rescuer to foster and foster never did that]

• Unknown if bunnies urine was milky or chalky before it started. They know she was having problems with her poops, they were coming out mushy, is what the husband said, but she’s not sure.

Diet —

• Hay — Kaytee Timothy Hay (http://www.kaytee.com/products/timothy-hay-mini-bale.php)
Ingredients: Natural sun-cured timothy hay

• Rabbit Food (NEW, Since Jun 10) — Kaytee Timothy Complete Rabbit Food (http://www.petco.com/product/14643/Kaytee-Timothy-Complete-Rabbit-Food.aspx?CoreCat=SAFHPPetType_Rabbits)

Ingredients: Sun-cured Timothy Grass Hay, Oat Hulls, Sun-cured Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Middlings, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Dried Cane Molasses, Ground Flax Seed, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (a preservative), Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Folic Acid, Dried A. oryzae Fermentation Extract (source of protease), Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite.


• Rabbit Food (given the last 4 years) — Kaytee Supreme Daily Blend Rabbit Pellets (http://www.petco.com/product/6081/Kaytee-Supreme-Daily-Blend-Rabbit-Pellets.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-ProductDetail_2-_-Kaytee%20Supreme%20Daily%20Blend%20Rabbit%20Pellet s-6081)

Ingredients: Fortified to ensure a well balance blend, Supreme utilizes natural seeds, grains and pellets to provide your small animal with a simple yet healthy diet. Small animals have special nutritional needs. Kaytee Supreme Small Animal Foods offer quality, nutritious ingredients in a mix that small animals love. Best of all, the clean, wholesome ingredients offer proteins, fiber, and other nutrients to help small animals stay strong and healthy.

[Pointy Tale]

Just updating— Bunn has most normal looking poop and no more blood in the urine for the last few days (as of 07/05). She is giving baby gas drops, canned plain pumpkin twice a day, 2 heaping tablespoons. She said the pumpkin was in the pdf doc, so she’s giving her that. She seems to like it. She has been eating all of her greens, like kale, escarole, dill, some of the Timothy pellets, water and not so much on the grass. Her cage is being kept clean.

Thank you all very much again for your help and information and being upfront and center, all of which I have passed along. As I get updates I will keep you posted. Again, thank you kindly.

[Milo's Mom]

Boy you are full of good updates today PT!!! Again, a good update.

Thank you PT!!!! :thumbsup

[Pointy Tale]

Just updating with a question or two perhaps— I spoke with her this morning in depth. Bunn is feistier so maybe a good thing. She has been reading and rereading the information provided from the members here on the rabbit care and diet. She’s introducing new veggies as per the list but the bunn is getting diarrhea, so she backs off, and then gives her pumpkin again. They backed off giving her frequent baths but now seems to have urine scald, anything for that? Bunn is going potty all over the kitchen floor, so she has to re-train litter box habits, any suggestions? Bunn hasn’t wanted to eat her hay lately, not sure if something was wrong with it, she bought a new brand/bag from Oxbow of Timothy Hay (only ingredient) but she doesn’t want to eat it, she used to love eating hay. She was thinking about maybe Zupreem Timothy Hay (http://www.zupreem.com/products/western-timothy-hay), which is supposed to be Pesticide free, any thoughts on that one? So it seems things change one day to the next. Thanks for reading and for the suggestions.

Milo’s Mom— hi, good to see you here, thank you and thanks for checking up on us and replying.