HELP ME PLEASE!!

[Missycoo]

just over three weeks ago, we found a baby grey squirrel. He was following us around the yard for most of the day, we left him and that night just before dark there was a bad storm, and the neighbors cat roaming around. We didn't have any choice but to go and get him. I am immediately began researching on how to care for him and since he was a little dehydrated we started him on Pedialyte, there is a local wildlife rehab person but she doesn't take care of small animals only birds. I contacted the DNR and our nearest person is 3 hours away. I found this board and learned that we needed to get him esbilac, and we started him on that right away. I ordered Fox Valley squirrel formula and he has done very well on it. Although he's not really keen on the rodent blocks I ordered from Henry's, he will nibble from time to time. I am estimating him to be around 8 weeks of age right now. Yesterday he became slightly lethargic although he did wake to eat but not as much as usual. today he is very lethargic, and as the day and evening goes on he is becoming worse. My first thought was that he may have licked some bug dope of my hands and it's made him sick. My second thought was, can squirrels contract strep throat from humans? my daughter has been sick for the last week. I recently read about metabolic bone disorder. Is that possible for a baby his age? I assumed the Fox Valley formula was enough calcium for him. Somebody, anybody please help. I don't have a vet in my area that will help with him, I've already tried. I am frantic and very attached to this precious baby. Do any of you squirrel professionals have any ideas that might help us?

[farrelli]

If he ingested some toxin, your best bet is to push fluids.

How much FV are you feeding and how often? How much does he weigh? Sounds like he's not eating enough block to really count it in his diet. He's just of the age when he would be starting to get interested in solids.

Please listed very closely to his breathing. If you hear any clicking, he's in terrible danger. We'd need for you to tell us how much he weighs and what kind of ABs you have so that we could dose. Is there any way that he could have aspirated on the formula? In what manner do you feed it? 1CC syringe?

[farrelli]

Dehydration also causes lethargy. Gently pinch the skin between the shoulders and see if it tents or goes right back down like on the back of your hand.

Lethargy can often be helped by allowing hem to lick off (or rub it on their gums) some molasses. The sugar helps along with the minerals in it. Maple syrup is second choice, then any other syrup or even jam.

[Missycoo]

he usually it's about one and a half teaspoons 3 to 4 times per day. Is it correct 3 sccs per teaspoon? he weighs about 5 oz. I don't hear any clicking in his breathing and his nose is cool and damp. he has accidentally aspirated, I immediately took them upside down and out his nose until they was no more formula coming out...yes I do have antibiotics here.

[farrelli]

Here's a link (with video) to proper feeding technique:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?36777-PROPER-FEEDING-TECHNIQUE!!

[Missycoo]

I should add that he did ask Britt yesterday, which was probably the third time in the last 3 weeks. The antibiotics that I have on hand is amox/clav 875mg - 125mg. I was given this for strep throat, and was switch to a z-pack when these were not working

[farrelli]

At 142g he should be getting 7-10CCs (minimum) per feeding. The rule is 5-7% of body weight. So, 1.5 teaspoons would be the bare minimum he should be getting. He could be very hungry. At his age, you should essentially start letting them decide how much they want to eat, making sure they're eating enough.

[farrelli]

Those ABs would work if necessary. Do listen for the clicking. I have to go to bed, so others will have to weigh in about whether they should be given just in case. Pneumonia isn;t always accompanied by clicking. Don;t give them unless or until we tell you how much to give.

[Missycoo]

I apologize I'm typing on this tablet and its not working all that well. What I meant to say was he did aspirate yesterday. I always let him decide and how much he wants, and it usually between one and a half and two teaspoons. is it possible that he could have metabolic bone disease? Or is it possible that he could have pneumonia without the clicking

[farrelli]

So, bottom line, check the hydration, increase the food, listen for clicking, and try applying some molasses.

Btw, the FV provides all the proper nutrients, so long as he gets enough of it.

[Missycoo]

if someone could help me with the dosage and how to administer the antibiotics. I would do that immediately. I am doing the proper feeding technique. I won't be sleeping tonight, so if there's anyone that's awake that would be willing to help me out, I would be eternally grateful. I'm so worried my baby isn't going to make it through the night. I also have been giving him little drops of calcium pills crushed and Pedialyte. he's not very willingly drinking this. I did syrup on a q-tip. He wasn't very excited about that either.

[farrelli]

Lethargy following aspiration would lead me to think that ABs should be given.

So should we understand that you have Clavamox, 125mg?

I'm going to bed, but after answering that, others will dose for you, though it might not be until morning.

[FortWorthSquaddy]

Can you get Baytril? (Enrofloxacin) ?

[Missycoo]

The bottle says amox/clav 875mg-125mg.

they are white oblong pills. thank you so much for the help. If anyone has a dosage or how to turn this into medication for him please let me know

[Missycoo]

I don't believe I can get those antibiotics. When I called the vet, the vet said if they are not comfortable trying to diagnose or administer for a squirrel. I live very far north about 6 miles from the Canadian border. It's pretty primitive here even for people to get decent medical attention

[FortWorthSquaddy]

What I could find in 2 minutes:
Amoxicillin solution is administered at the rate of 50 mg/kg of body weight/day
given in the drinking water. I would force feed it through a syringe as a slurry, with a WHOLE day's dose as the first dose - called a loading dose

[farrelli]

I think that's clav but I don;t understand the numbers. If someone does, I can tell you that the mammals guide says that Clav is dosed at 20 mg/kg.

So I THINK you'd crush a 125mg pill, add 2CCs, and then give about 0.05CCs to a 142g squirrel. Never dosed it before. If this is a 875mg pill though, following those instructions would be a massive OD. Please wait for someone who's dosed this before.

[farrelli]

Good night. Good luck.

[Missycoo]

yyes, I'm not sure if I understand what the pill bottle means unless it means that its 875 milligrams of amoxicillin and that's the same as the Clav at 125 milligrams.

[farrelli]

I PMd Nancy and she's usually back on at around 5 or 6. Hopefully someone will know dosing before then though.

[Missycoo]

http://www.medicinenet.com/amoxicillinclavulanic_acid_tablet_875mg125mg/article.htm

according to this article it's a form of augmentin

[Missycoo]

II do hear clicking. I didn't earlier but I do now

[Missycoo]

Praying...my baby is getting weaker. the clicking has stopped. He is still breathing. If anyone can help me break down this antibiotic, I need to give him something. PLEASE PLEASE..if anyone is still awake.

[Carol Lynn]

How is he doing?? I have the dose for an adult squirrel with an cat bite injury, but I don't know what it would be for a baby, and I don't know if you would even use the same antibiotic.


Praying...my baby is getting weaker. the clicking has stopped. He is still breathing. If anyone can help me break down this antibiotic, I need to give him something. PLEASE PLEASE..if anyone is still awake.

[stepnstone]

So I THINK you'd crush a 125mg pill, add 2CCs, and then give about 0.05CCs to a 142g squirrel.

White hard capsule/pill-split line in middle-875 one side-125 the other?
If so crush up fine and follow farrelli's post.
Is the baby being provided a heat source?

[Carol Lynn]

Good luck with him! I'll send good thoughts your way. :grouphug

[Missycoo]

Yes, he does have heat. I believe this is an 875 mg pill of Amoxicillin or Augmentin. According to the link above the 125 stands for clavulanic acid. He's much weaker now than he was earlier. I am so very stressed.

[Missycoo]

Thank you Carol... PRAYERS!! AND MORE PRAYERS!! What a special little creature he is. As crazy as it sounds, he's touched a part of my soul that no other pet has. I need him to make it... thank you for all the help on here. I know it's late...

[Carol Lynn]

You and your little guy certainly have my prayers. I am glad to see that someone was able to send you the dosing information. I hope you can get it in him, and I hope it works!! I know how easy it is to fall in love with these little guys!! :group hug :Love_Icon


Thank you Carol... PRAYERS!! AND MORE PRAYERS!! What a special little creature he is. As crazy as it sounds, he's touched a part of my soul that no other pet has. I need him to make it... thank you for all the help on here. I know it's late...

[Missycoo]

Chubbers made it through the night...still very weak. I'm going to see if I can get him interested in some breakfast. I would really love some input....

[Nancy in New York]

Chubbers made it through the night...still very weak. I'm going to see if I can get him interested in some breakfast. I would really love some input....

I am going to write up the dosing and pm it to you.
I'm so glad the little one made it through the night.
You may have already answered this, but what size syringe are
you using?

[Nancy in New York]

I just sent dosing instructions for the Clavamox.
Start him on it now. Also when giving, I usually try to
give right in the area of the cheek and gum so that I don't
"shoot" it down the throat. Make sure that he gets it all,
as this is just a couple of drops of medicine.

[Missycoo]

I have a 3 cc syringe. I had some help last night from Julie. She was in the ballpark with her recommendations. At 2 a.m. I gave him the same amount that you suggested except for I mixed the crushed Pill as directed. I will crush another pill and get it ready for his next dose this afternoon. Also I reweighed him and he is 5.75 oz. thank you again for helping me on this!

[Nancy in New York]

OK so he is now 163 grams. I would up the dose to 0.05 twice daily. :thumbsup

[Missycoo]

Nancy, just to clarify. the Amox/Clav 875mg - 125mg is Clavamox? When I did a search medicinenet called it augmentin. I just want to check and double check. Thank you!:Love_Icon

[czarina]

If she is using a 3cc syringe, it would be almost impossible to give that dose. Are you using a tuberculolin syringe? Its very thin and only holds a total of 1cc. Please be very careful giving the med.

I am very happy also that your little guy made it through the night. And yes, you are right, they do touch your heart in a very special way. Some of us feel it is almost magical, for lack of a better word.
Please continue to follow the instructions you get here, these folks are experts, and you will find everything you need to know to keep your little guy happy and healthy.

I am also sending my prayers and positive energies your way.:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Ic on:grouphug

[FortWorthSquaddy]

Lethargy: infection, dehydration, hypothermia (too cold)

The antibiotic you have has 2 numbers - in milligrams (mg) because it has 2 antibiotics in it which are at different concentrations. They mix 2 antibiotics because 2 work better than 1 - usually. "Augmentin" is the marketing name for this pill in the American market.

Go to the nearest pharmacy and ask them for a few oral syringes, or a dosing syringe. If they ask you why, tell them that your infant might have strep throat and you washed the numbers off the syringe you did have.

They will probably hand you a few for free.

The "clicking" is fluid in the lungs with air passing through it - by definition this is pneumonia. We want to stop any secondary infections.

Please bounce me the dosages someone sent you?

Find a very small clear container - like a shotglass or a test tube. Find something that can crush the pills into a fine powder WITHOUT losing any of the powder - I crush pills IN a shotglass in a cc of water then dissolve them in water into a thick mix called a slurry.

a cc is a cubic centimeter, it is the same volume as one ml - a milliliter

Email me - I can walk you through making a slurry.

JTC3689@gmail.com

I will monitor.

- Joe

[Missycoo]

I will head to the pharmacy and look for a smaller syringe. Thank you ALL!! You are truly amazing people!! Magical is a great word to describe this experience I've had so far... I'm just devastated that this has happened. How fragile life is!:thankyou

[FortWorthSquaddy]

Baby Benadryl or Dimetapp might come with really nice oral dosing syringes. If the pharmacy techs stonewall you, get some of that just to get the syringe.

The risk is WAY to great to use a 3cc syringe right now. If you can get SEVERAL 1cc oral syringes from several pharmacies, do so.

[Shewhosweptforest]

:Love_Icon I'm soo happy Chubbers made it through the night :Love_Icon Hang in there Chubbers:grouphug TSB prayers and love have often worked miracles (not to mention all the amazing advice :thumbsup) :Love_Icon

[Milo's Mom]

Nancy, just to clarify. the Amox/Clav 875mg - 125mg is Clavamox? When I did a search medicinenet called it augmentin. I just want to check and double check. Thank you!:Love_Icon

I am not Nancy, but wanted to clarify for you.

Yes, Amoxicillin/Clavulanate is also called Clavamox or Augmentin. :thumbsup

[farrelli]

You followed Nancy's directions, right? The amount I discussed last night was incorrect.

Did you dose him before you got Nancy's instructions? If so, say what you did and how much you gave because he might have been OD'd and his future dosing might need to be adjusted.

Many pharmacists will give you a 1cc for free if you tell them it's for a kitten.

[czarina]

I'm just going to add this to the mix. In humans, Augmentin is extremely rough on the GI tract, often causing severe diarrhea in infants and milder diarrhea in children and adults. I personally have no experience using it on squirrels, but would assume it would do the same, so suggest that while you are in town you pick up some extra pre and pro biotics. You can get some vanilla greek yogurt to add to the formula. There are other types you can pick OTC, maybe some others can chime in here and also on how squirrels tolerate the Augmentin.

My prayers are with you.:Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[farrelli]

Yes, pick up some Activia or some BeneBac at a pet store and give it at least 2 hours after ABs.

[Missycoo]

yes I did follow nancys directions. Joe has also been a great help! the pharmacist gave me vol 1 cc syringe for more accurate dosage



You followed Nancy's directions, right? The amount I discussed last night

was incorrect.

Did you dose him before you got Nancy's instructions? If so, say what you did and how much you gave because he might have been OD'd and his future dosing might need to be adjusted.

Many pharmacists will give you a 1cc for free if you tell them it's for a kitten.

[Missycoo]

does anyone have the recipe to make sugar water? I need to discontinue the Pedialyte

[Shewhosweptforest]

The recipe for hydration is 3 tbsp. sugar, 1 tsp salt mixed in one quart of warm water....I'm guessing you could just eliminate the salt and that would work:thumbsup

[czarina]

This is just a quick tip: an easy and effective way to crush pills is to use 2 medium to large spoons, place the pill between the spoons and apply pressure. Most pills can be crushed to a fine powder this way. A few pills are just to hard, but this works on most.

My second tip: is that everyone should use a tuberculin syringe to be able to give the correct dose of medicine. I think many already have them, and perhaps might not know them as"tuberculin" syringes, but that is what the (human) medical community knows them as. I have seen pictures of them on this board, so I know many have and use them. They are very skinny and are gauged into tenths and hundredths, so it is very simple to give any small amount recommended. And many use them for feeding.

For your educational pleasure this morning: the reason they are called tuberculin is because they were designed to administer a small amount of medicine just barely under the skin to check to see if you have TB in your body. It is read 48 to 72 hours later, and if there is no redness or reaction, you are good to go. Sadly, TB is on the rise again. Of interest, exotic zoo animals, like rhinos are often positive for it. Also, TB is in the same family as leprosy.
I am done highjacking threads,

[stepnstone]

I knew (other) dosing had been pm'd but just for my own clarification...
Farrelli's dose was correct, it was the breakdown that was incorrect right? :thinking

[Missycoo]

Sorry if I missed any of you're posts... feel free to readdress me so I can answer. I'm concerned about dehydration as he is not interested AT ALL in his formula. Any tips on how to administer the hydration formula would be greatly appreciated. He did lick just a tiny little lick of the molasses. Just to clarify on the yogurt, I give it to him 2 hours AFTER antibiotics? Or right away? Yes, the doseage of AB was correct.

[Missycoo]

I knew (other) dosing had been pm'd but just for my own clarification...
Farrelli's dose was correct, it was the breakdown that was incorrect right? :thinking

Yes, Stepnstone, the doseage was correct, the breakdown was to ad 16 cc's of water to the crushed pill.

[FortWorthSquaddy]

The timing of the yogurt is so that the antibiotics don't kill the live cultures in the yogurt. 2 hours should be sufficient time.

I would dilute the yogurt with your sugar water maybe 1:1. This is a guess. Other opinions?

The need is apparently rehydration, so sugar water by mouth in ANY form is more important than electrolytes in the immediate

After at most 2 days, the NEED for electrolytes is just as important as the sugar water . I normally only give 1 day of sugar water before switching to something more robust.

I overcome picky eaters one drop into the cheek at a time


Our Rehydration posts:
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?40584-Rehydrating-a-squirrel

[Nancy in New York]

Just to clarify a couple of things.
This morning I pm'd Missy the dose.
I told her about probiotics 2 hours prior or 2 hours after the
antibiotic, even suggesting the probiotic in capsule form and
yogurt.
I sent her a link to the dosing syringe. I told her that the amount
that Chubbs should get is only a drop or two.......meaning that if
she pulls up more than that, she is on the wrong mark.
I know it's worrisome when drugs are dosed off board, as the members
reading want to cover all bases and make sure that it's done correctly.
I appreciate all of the reminders and I know that Missy does as well. :thumbsup:grouphug
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44591-Reading-a-Syringe

[Missycoo]

Nancy.. thank you AGAIN so very much... the information was invaluable and may very well be the reason he made it through the night. I'm a little overwhelmed with all of this awesome info, so I apologize if I sound all over the place... but I am! I'm following each and every bit of advice and I feel much better about tackling this... the medication situation is very stressful so I was thrilled that there was a more accurate syringe.

SunnyCoxJoe has been a saint also... thank you for all of the coaching!! I finally stopped crying and got busy... I can't get over all of the support on here.. it's amazing. Our sweet baby would never have gotten this far without everyone on here being so dedicated and helpful... We sure aren't out of the woods but I feel a little more confident!

THANK YOU AGAIN FROM THE BOTTOM OF CHUBBERS HEART AND MINE TOO!!

[farrelli]

Have you gotten the rehydration thing addressed? If he's dehydrated, you might just have to give it drop by drop. I know you said he licked a little molasses off, but you can also rub it on the gums. Both low sugar and dehydration can cause a downward spiral where they are less and less interested in taking in any food or water.

[stepnstone]

I'm glad your little made it through the night and day, please keep us updated.
Also glad you got the med info straight, "doing the math" is something I'm a complete
fail at so I have to keep files on dosages. Nancy has been my hero more then once too. :thumbsup
If not for her (and other's) along with WMB I'd be somewhere out in left field...:dono
How's your baby doing so far this evening?

[Carol Lynn]

So glad to hear that he made it through the night and is hanging in there!! Wonderful news!! :)

[Missycoo]

Well we're still holding our own...he did drink about 3 cc's on his own tonight and now hes back to sleeping. I hardly dare even think he may be improving....but maybe? I hope....im drop hydrating every 2 hours and keeping him warm and alot of cuddling...antibiotics are going just fine, so are probiotics. Prayers prayers and more prayers!

[Nancy in New York]

Well we're still holding our own...he did drink about 3 cc's on his own tonight and now hes back to sleeping. I hardly dare even think he may be improving....but maybe? I hope....im drop hydrating every 2 hours and keeping him warm and alot of cuddling...antibiotics are going just fine, so are probiotics. Prayers prayers and more prayers!

This is a great report.........thank you for updating. :grouphug
Hydration is so vital, it can be the key to so many ailments.
Can you quesstimate how much liquid he has had today?
Is he still on formula?
Does he appear dehydrated?
Tomorrow try some watermelon, squirrels usually love that.

Many prayers coming your way. :Love_Icon

[farrelli]

So glad he's hanging on. Please do keep us updated and him hydrated. :Love_Icon:grouphug

[lordbud7]

Not sure about anyone else around here but we mix a small amount of kayro syrup in with babies formula ESPECIALLY the picky ones. It sweetens it up enough that most will grab the syringe and try to hold it after tasting.
Again not sure if anyone else uses it but we do and it works great. Make sure to shake well and always make sure babies warm. NEVER feed a cold baby.

[farrelli]

Some people use a touch of maple syrup. It's all natural and has some nice minerals too.

[farrelli]

Yes, anything with sugar in it will soften stool. Sugar is hygroscopic, so it pulls water into the gut. Things like apple juice and prune juice, however, not only have sugar but also sorbitol, which pulls even more water into the gut. It's used as a natural, gently laxative for babies.

[czarina]

Just wanted to send some love and extra night time prayers your way:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug:Love_Ico n:grouphug:Love_Icon

[Missycoo]

My heart is so full right now... sorry to be so sappy, but I just can't help myself!!! Thank you so much for all of your help, expert advice, and prayers!! I am over the top thrilled to report a HUGE improvement this morning in my beloved little Chubbers! He emphatically greeted me this morning when I opened my eyes...put his little paws up on the side of his box and looked up at me waiting for me to pick him up this morning. He immediately signaled that he has to potty so I took him to the newspaper and viola!! A big puddle the side of a grapefruit!! So I know he's hydrating with the drops! THEN, the little stinker gobbled 3 cc's of his sugar water formula mix after his dose of antibiotics!! All I could do was cry.. he went from listless and lifeless to almost back to normal. I can tell he's weak, but beyond a doubt, he is improving.

I just want to say it again... YOU GUYS ROCK... you're all amazing people, and I'll never forget everything you've done to help us is this horrible situation.. I'll be needing plenty more guidance as we get back on this road to recovery, so please feel free to keep holding my hand. THANK YOU!!

[Nancy in New York]

My heart is so full right now... sorry to be so sappy, but I just can't help myself!!! Thank you so much for all of your help, expert advice, and prayers!! I am over the top thrilled to report a HUGE improvement this morning in my beloved little Chubbers! He emphatically greeted me this morning when I opened my eyes...put his little paws up on the side of his box and looked up at me waiting for me to pick him up this morning. He immediately signaled that he has to potty so I took him to the newspaper and viola!! A big puddle the side of a grapefruit!! So I know he's hydrating with the drops! THEN, the little stinker gobbled 3 cc's of his sugar water formula mix after his dose of antibiotics!! All I could do was cry.. he went from listless and lifeless to almost back to normal. I can tell he's weak, but beyond a doubt, he is improving.

I just want to say it again... YOU GUYS ROCK... you're all amazing people, and I'll never forget everything you've done to help us is this horrible situation.. I'll be needing plenty more guidance as we get back on this road to recovery, so please feel free to keep holding my hand. THANK YOU!!

This made my day!
You are the best mama that any little squirrel could
ever ask for. He sure lucked out when he found his way to
you.
Believe me, you are an absolute pleasure to hold hands with and
guide on this journey. Your love for your little baby shows through
in every word you type.

Way to go Chubbers and Mama!

[stepnstone]

Wonderful news!!
I'll do the happy dance right along with you... :banana

[joyceb11]

I love happy endings! so happy your baby is felling better

[czarina]

This is a delightful way to start my day! I am so happy for Chubbers and you. You rock!
:rockin:alright.gif:rockband:wiggle:hyper:drummer: banana:fireworks:fireworks

I would just like to add that when I have one that has been so sick, I try to keep him as quiet as possible, for as long as possible. I know right now he is inactive, but soon he will want to jump and play, but I try to not let them get overheated. Often easier said than done, but it takes a good while for them to fully recover and you don't want any relapses. So as he feels better, he can play, just don't let it get out of control, where he exhausts himself. And, it is very important to complete his round of antibiotics, even though he is feeling better, give them for as long as Nancy instructed you.

And, you really did make my day with your wonderful news!!!!

[Shewhosweptforest]

:grin3 That's me smiling ear to ear....and a sigh of relief :thumbsup Keep up the good work :Love_Icon Chubber's is one lucky squirrel :grouphug

[farrelli]

So glad he's feeling better. But I think that it's now come time for pictures!

[Missycoo]

Good Morning Everyone... I'm feeling a little better today... thank you for all you've done for me! My mom says I have to take a nap now *pouts* but I'll see you soon! Love, Baby Chubbers237494237494

[TubeDriver]

Chubbers! :eek Klunk! :grin3

[farrelli]

He's adorable! :Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Akkkkkkkkkkkkk Chubbers is a "dirty faced" little one!
I have two just like him now.
I'm in love! :Love_Icon
Post #1348 is one of them.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?24031-Magenta-s-Babies-and-Company/page68

[island rehabber]

I was barely here yesterday and so I missed this wonderful update -- AWESOME job, mamma Missycoo, and extra-awesome job, TSB team!!

When our members are sharp and present for an emergency, and when the human caring for the squirrel is sharp and present and cooperative, miracles happen. I never get tired of seeing them happen! :bowdown :alright.gif:woot

[Saverywood]

My heart is so full right now... sorry to be so sappy, but I just can't help myself!!! Thank you so much for all of your help, expert advice, and prayers!! I am over the top thrilled to report a HUGE improvement this morning in my beloved little Chubbers! He emphatically greeted me this morning when I opened my eyes...put his little paws up on the side of his box and looked up at me waiting for me to pick him up this morning. He immediately signaled that he has to potty so I took him to the newspaper and viola!! A big puddle the side of a grapefruit!! So I know he's hydrating with the drops! THEN, the little stinker gobbled 3 cc's of his sugar water formula mix after his dose of antibiotics!! All I could do was cry.. he went from listless and lifeless to almost back to normal. I can tell he's weak, but beyond a doubt, he is improving.

I just want to say it again... YOU GUYS ROCK... you're all amazing people, and I'll never forget everything you've done to help us is this horrible situation.. I'll be needing plenty more guidance as we get back on this road to recovery, so please feel free to keep holding my hand. THANK YOU!!


:thumbsup Nice job!

[pjjere]

Great job Squamma! So glad he's feeling better! :)

[SammysMom]

Oh my word!!! Chubbers is too cute for words!!! :Love_Icon:Love_Icon:Love_Icon
You are doing an amazing job with him Mama!!!:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[Missycoo]

just a quick update for you guys, Chubbers ate 9 cc's of FV at suppertime...I wish you guys could see him! I can confidently say that I believe he is on the mend... he's definitely not back to normal, but so far from what he was two days ago. This is just incredible!

I'm wondering how long I should keep him from his big cage? I know he needs rest...And when he can try to start eating some solids again? any other advice would be greatly appreciated!:thankyou:thankyou:thankyou

[stepnstone]

No reason you can't offer some block while still on meds.

I personally would get one of mine through the meds before
returning to the larger cage. Of course that depends on just
how small the smaller cage is?

[Carol Lynn]

So, so glad to hear that Chubbers is on the mend! And what an adorable little guy he is!! :thumbsup

[Chickenlegs]

Another win for squirreldom! Nice work!

[Nancy in New York]

Where's our Chubbers update? :imp

[Missycoo]

Good Morning Everyone... I'm happy to report that my little baby bundle has suddenly turned into a little ball of energy!! I have never seen him like this! Which makes me think that he's possibly been under the weather for awhile...either that or he's just so dang happy to be alive! Anyways, the formula feedings were just getting crazy...like so crazy to the point I had to drive home twice a day from work to feed him (which is 40 miles btw) :) .. but I'm happy to do it. I tried some solids just to see if that would pacify him longer and wowsers, does he ever love avocado. I crushed some of Henry's squirrel block in there and he's really loving it. This morning I tried giving him some formula since he last ate at 11 pm and it was now 7 am, but he wasn't interested in sucking..however he did head straight for the food. I thought he must be thirsty, but he's not understanding his water bottle quite yet.

Antibiotics are going very well, he's on a twice a day 12 hour schedule with those. Probiotics are going well too, he's insanely crazy over vanilla yogurt and I've been sticking to about 1 cc since I'm not sure how much is too much for him. He went from 153 grams on Wed to 160 last night :D His next weigh in is tonight, so we will see. His bigger cage is outdoors and is about 3x3x3. I'm just not sure he's ready to be climbing yet. I'd like him to get his strength up a little more. He's in a 1x3 box right now with his heating pad and he seems to like that just fine and when my daughters home during the day, she takes him out for some fresh are for a few minutes a few times a day between her activities. He likes sitting by the big oaks.

What other solids would you recommend I add into his diet? And any suggestions about the water bottle? I was thinking I would try putting a bit of molasses on the tip to see if he can figure it out... Anything else you can think of to advise me on? THANKS AGAIN!! SOO SO MUCH! He's definitely on the mend... far more that I ever imagined...this is awesome...

[island rehabber]

I am THRILLED that you've gotten him through this and he's on the mend -- good work, mamma! :thumbsup

I will move this thread out of Life Threatening and into Non Life-Threatening; it will still be highly visible, in the Emergency forum, but will not trigger emails to rehabbers. :)

[farrelli]

Are they taking him outside uncaged? If so, please stop. We STRONGLY recommend no outside time until the soft release process starts. It can and often does go very wrong. Also make sure he can't get outside, like chewing through a screen or something.

Can you offer the formula in a dish? Many like it like that when they no longer like the syringe. We recommend keeping them on formula for as long as they'll take it. Many take it with their solids for a very long time.

[anniedancer]

You and Chubbers have brought tears to me eyes. What a good job you've done, and what a reward, to see this little guy start to perk up and respond to treatment. You made my day!
Annie

[harimau]

Missycoo, hats off. I wish I'd been as quick to clue in as you when I first became a squirrel mama. I'm so happy for you and the adorable Chubbers. :thumbsup :thankyou

[SammysMom]

Missycoo, you are doing a great job! I hope that you are still giving formula by syringe, but less often so as to not have to rush back and forth from work. I think that is what you meant, but wanted to be sure. Formula is like insurance for good nutrition! If I could get my adult to take it, I would still give it daily...:rofl4
Here is the link to the healthy diet information. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels
Be sure to look at it carefully for which are the best veggies. Avocado is terrific, but high in fat and more of a treat for most squirrels. We want them to eat their healthy greens and other good veggies.

[Missycoo]

Are they taking him outside uncaged? If so, please stop. We STRONGLY recommend no outside time until the soft release process starts. It can and often does go very wrong. Also make sure he can't get outside, like chewing through a screen or something.

Can you offer the formula in a dish? Many like it like that when they no longer like the syringe. We recommend keeping them on formula for as long as they'll take it. Many take it with their solids for a very long time.



Hi farrelli, no he's not going out yet. All playtime is indoors as of now. He's no where near ready for that yet. Playtime is in short bursts and then he's pooped.. He's still liking his nipple...lol. I have ALOT of FV so I'll continue that as long as he will accept it. Do you have recommendations as far as solids to start him on?

[Missycoo]

All of this support and encouragement is amazing... We are going strong into day 5. Snuggle baby is eating pretty well, but still tuckered out. He wants to eat, play a bit, then cuddle cuddle cuddle. I have taken him out for 5 minutes at a time just because he seems to enjoy the air and hearing the birds. He becomes very alert out there. He usually has his potty break and then it's right back to me to go inside. I'd love advice on what veggies and fruits to start him on and add to his diet... throw it all at me! :D I've gotta get some meat on this baby! Thanks again!

[SammysMom]

First HHBs and then veggies as per the list that I posted the link to earlier in this thread. I printed the list and keep it in my purse so I have it at the grocery store.:grin3

[Missycoo]

Ok..am now reading the Healthy Diet pdf. And I will continue the FV formula. I will stay in touch as far as advise on when to begin the soft release...and there must be support group for empty nester around here somewhere right?

[SammysMom]

TSB is a support group for empty nesters...:rofl4
You are doing a wonderful job!:Love_Icon

[mommasbaby]

OMG he is so cute looks like my mommas baby when I first got him and that was almost two years ago!!!

[Missycoo]

Well... I'm getting concerned... today he stopped eating again. He's not totally lethargic, but he's definitely overly sleepy and no at all interested in his formula. I've gotten him up and around a bit trying to get him to respond to being played with, but he just wants to sleep and cuddle. He did walk a little bit outside. I wish I knew how baby squirrel were, so I had a point of reference. He's never been full of energy. About 2 days after our last weekend scare he seemed to have more energy than he's ever had. But slowly he'll just go back to play a few minutes, then sleep sleep sleep. I noticed today when he was walking outside, his hind end seemed lame. He was clumsy and wobbly. I just got him to take around 6 cc's of FV and that was the most he's had since this morning which was 3 cc's. He's gained about 5 grams in the last 6 days. So I'm needing advice from you experts again. I don't want him to slip away fast like last time... I'm just sick about this. Oh, and no clicking. Not at all in the last 6 days. He is still on his antibiotics, but tonight was supposed to be his last night.

[Nancy in New York]

Well... I'm getting concerned... today he stopped eating again. He's not totally lethargic, but he's definitely overly sleepy and no at all interested in his formula. I've gotten him up and around a bit trying to get him to respond to being played with, but he just wants to sleep and cuddle. He did walk a little bit outside. I wish I knew how baby squirrel were, so I had a point of reference. He's never been full of energy. About 2 days after our last weekend scare he seemed to have more energy than he's ever had. But slowly he'll just go back to play a few minutes, then sleep sleep sleep. I noticed today when he was walking outside, his hind end seemed lame. He was clumsy and wobbly. I just got him to take around 6 cc's of FV and that was the most he's had since this morning which was 3 cc's. He's gained about 5 grams in the last 6 days. So I'm needing advice from you experts again. I don't want him to slip away fast like last time... I'm just sick about this. Oh, and no clicking. Not at all in the last 6 days. He is still on his antibiotics, but tonight was supposed to be his last night.

Is it possible to post some more pictures?
Pictures can be so helpful when trying to get to the root of
a problem. Preferably with just him, no hands holding him, and
if you have something like a soda can, could you put that near him
to get a size reference.
When you say he walked outside, you don't mean alone, do you?
:grouphug:Love_Icon:grouphug

[farrelli]

You're not taking outside uncaged, right?

[Missycoo]

I take him outside and sit with him in the grass by one of the big oaks for 10-15 minutes at a time around 2-3 times per day. Otherwise, he will just sleep and I feel like he should have some air. He walks over to the oak and puts his front paws up on the tree, but doesn't climb. Just sits there awake and looks around. Usually he like to potty outside, I notice him having his BM's out there more. There's never any poop in his box. I will take a picture or two and post.

[farrelli]

We STRONGLY discourage outside time until they have been through the soft release process. We have seen it go horribly wrong many times. Please reconsider doing this.

[TubeDriver]

I take him outside and sit with him in the grass by one of the big oaks for 10-15 minutes at a time around 2-3 times per day. Otherwise, he will just sleep and I feel like he should have some air. He walks over to the oak and puts his front paws up on the tree, but doesn't climb. Just sits there awake and looks around. Usually he like to potty outside, I notice him having his BM's out there more. There's never any poop in his box. I will take a picture or two and post.

There are many, many horror stories where a squirrel suddenly bolted away and was lost. It is not possible to predict what might scare them, a noise or perhaps a bird flying overhead but the result can be a lost squirrel. We STRONGLY suggest you not bring your squirrel outside.

[Missycoo]

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[Missycoo]

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[Missycoo]

Honestly, I don't think he could. He's just a little waddler, he doesn't hop or move fast in any way. I can definitely keep him in doors if that's what you advise, I just feel like he needs some time in the grass outside of this house to help him feel like a squirrel. It doesn't seem like much of a life for him to not have any fresh air. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't something more tho.

[SammysMom]

Adorable and so little! Please, no more outside time out of a cage!!! That little one would not do well if outdoors on his own by accident. Try to trust us when we tell you that it is the very worst idea that many people think is a good one. You want to learn by our mistakes not from your own in this case.:Love_Icon

[farrelli]

He looks spikey to me. Is he well hydrated?

[Missycoo]

Under his chin is a little wet after he ate, he dribbled. I'm worried he is getting dehydrated as he's only 9 cc's today... he is just a little peanut. He won't drink again, I've been doing drops in the cheek. I most definitely trust your advise!! No more outside time!

[SammysMom]

What about offering some watermelon? Good for hydration for sure.

[Missycoo]

What about offering some watermelon? Good for hydration for sure.

Yes, I did try that.. he didn't have any interest :(

[SammysMom]

Did you add sugar to the water to make it taste better? He really needs it even if you have to do it drop by drop into his mouth.

[Missycoo]

Did you add sugar to the water to make it taste better? He really needs it even if you have to do it drop by drop into his mouth.

Yes, that's exactly what I've been doing...

[Nancy in New York]

Yes he needs hydration, he is really spikey.
BUT there is something about him, that I can't put my finger
on, does he look like a dwarf to anyone else?
Do you have a grams scale?
He is just too adorable, I must say.
I was also wondering if you could get a small cage, and put the cage
part over him for a while when he is outside, if he likes to feel the grass on his little feet.
NO direct sun when it's really hot out, actually they advise
to NOT take them out when it's hot and humid, because
squirrels can get heat stroke within 10 minutes outside.

[Nancy in New York]

Does anyone know of a trusted rehabber who may be able to
take a look at this little peanut?

[Nancy in New York]

Missycoo,
Take a look at some of these pictures in post #232.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?45985-Kensington/page12
What you are describing with his walk and not climbing
is spot on with little Kensi, who is a dwarf squirrel.
Kensi's little legs are short and his whole body is just so tiny....oh and Kensi
sleeps a lot too, an awful lot.
Has he ever tried to climb? Kensi just slips off if he tries.

There are so many similarities, it's something we have to think about.

[Missycoo]

Yes, oh my they are similar looking, but remember... I have zero squirrel experience. I'm not sure what size he's supposed to be or how long his legs should look. To recap, I found him on May 30th, following us around the yard, fulled furred and eyes open. He did have bottom teeth and the top ones were starting to emerge. He just crawls.. he has climbed but tumbles back down. He did manage to climb up in his cage before he got sick and was figuring out how to back down again, but I only saw it one time. I have seen him hop, but not too much.

He weighs 168 grams today... and isnt' he just so precious? I'm just crazy over him!!! I did read the post awhile back about squirrels overheating. So I do know not to do that. Poor poor little baby boy. I am willing to drive him to a rehabber... the closest one is in Bemidji, and was not any help. This is how I ended up on my own. Do dwarfs have special care if that's the case with my baby?

[TubeDriver]

Yes he needs hydration, he is really spikey.
BUT there is something about him, that I can't put my finger
on, does he look like a dwarf to anyone else?
Do you have a grams scale?
He is just too adorable, I must say.
I was also wondering if you could get a small cage, and put the cage
part over him for a while when he is outside, if he likes to feel the grass on his little feet.
NO direct sun when it's really hot out, actually they advise
to NOT take them out when it's hot and humid, because
squirrels can get heat stroke within 10 minutes outside.

He looks like a dwarf squirrel to me. Also, you are right that his description of a waddling walk sounds like how dwarfs walk.

[Nancy in New York]

Yes, oh my they are similar looking, but remember... I have zero squirrel experience. I'm not sure what size he's supposed to be or how long his legs should look. To recap, I found him on May 30th, following us around the yard, fulled furred and eyes open. He did have bottom teeth and the top ones were starting to emerge. He just crawls.. he has climbed but tumbles back down. He did manage to climb up in his cage before he got sick and was figuring out how to back down again, but I only saw it one time. I have seen him hop, but not too much.

He weighs 168 grams today... and isnt' he just so precious? I'm just crazy over him!!! I did read the post awhile back about squirrels overheating. So I do know not to do that. Poor poor little baby boy. I am willing to drive him to a rehabber... the closest one is in Bemidji, and was not any help. This is how I ended up on my own. Do dwarfs have special care if that's the case with my baby?

Yes they do need special care.
They seem to need extra warmth too so if you have a heating pad,
and you can set it under the cage, set it on low, he should enjoy that.
Chickenlegs also had a problem getting little Kensi to drink.
I will try to fill you in with the little I know about them, and when Chickenlegs
gets back in town, I know she will help too.
I just have to get one of my squirrels back inside, but will be back shortly.
Do NOT give him to any rehabber that we don't know. I worry that they would
just put him down. He will not be releasable and rehabbers will most likely euthanize.

One question, do you work outside of the home?

[Nancy in New York]

Just one more thing, if you found him May 30th, and his eyes were open,
which I know they were.....:grin2....he was at least 5 weeks old then.
I have 4 babies right now that weighed over 200 grams before their eyes
were opened at 5 weeks, (that is unusually large though) so that should tell you just how tiny your little miracle really is.:):Love_Icon

[Missycoo]

OMGosh.. Ohh.. I'm just speechless. That IS tiny!! Well then he more than likely is a little dwarf? I ABSOLUTELY would never give him to anyone. I had a bad experience with the person I spoke with. This may be a case of mama abandoning him because he was different?

I have had him on a heating pad except for the last 2 days. It was very hot here and I noticed he was crawling away from his bed to sleep on the floor of his box, so I shut it off. I was worried he would get overheated the way he sleeps. I turned it back on today tho and that seemed to make him happy.

I do work outside the home and unfortunately, I commute 20 miles each way so I can't come home to check on him.

[Nancy in New York]

Are you keeping him in a box? If so, this causes dehydration if it's cardboard.
I will copy and paste some things for you in a minute or two. Actually more like 15. :grin2
He is a little darling. We don't see dwarfs on the board much at all.

[Nancy in New York]

Another thread, (older) about a little downs squirrel, Stella Bella.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?19402-Downs-baby-squirrel-in-trouble-Please-Help-ASAP!

[Nancy in New York]

Here are some "snippets" that I put in Kensi's thread. Gabe was a member from long ago, a rehabber in NY, that had a little dwarf squirrel.
I wonder if you started him on formula again, if he would take that. Forgive me if you said you already tried, just hard to keep so many straight sometimes. :tilt


Downs Syndrome babies are very slow to mature. They are pudgy and short in body, see if you can find the picture I posted. I don't recall where it was, maybe someone else will or I'll try to find it. Max's fur is very soft, but in kitten fur I think it is also sparse, his isn't. I too thought he was blind and deaf. But he is not. Basically, when he came in, he seemed lethargic, I had to wake him to feed, but his appetite was always good. As he got older, and should have been weened, he wasn't, but he was so inadequate at getting food into his mouth that I still continue esbilac once a day. I used fluffed uneven, not flat, blankets and towels so that he could find a way to squeeze in there and balance. He really wanted to be a big boy and stand up on back legs to feed himself. Max's favorite foods are grapes, his teeth are shorter than they should be. He still sleeps until stimulated, and after a short period of activity falls asleep in your hands. He is very loveable, and unfortunately not afraid of anything. He does not cling to you with his feet, but would fall off your shoulder if he were placed there. Will also walk right off the edge of a table. Your diet sounds good, at least you know it is balanced. Barbara from the squirrel sanctuary has one also, hers is 7 months old. We're not sure of their life expectancy, but plan on giving them as much love as they can hold. Max is beginning to climb a little in his cage now, and seems to slowly develop skills. Would love to continue to hear how yours is doing.




Max. Notice how short his body is. He fit right into your hand. Max died December 12. He had had another squirrel with him. The other squirrel was sent to a rehabber for release. Max did not care much for the other squirrels as they played too rough for him. He was played with and handled whenever his very loving family was home. One day, Meghann came home from work, checked on Max immediately and found him stone cold. Max was kept in a heated house. She warmed him up, and he started to have non stop seizures. Meghann brought him to me, I took him to the vet, and he died later the next day. Our theory is that he was not thermoregulating well. He was never good at maintaning his body temperature during his stay with me. He was on heat well past the time he should have been. Then he was placed with the singleton squirrels that kept coming in all fall. I usually put him in with younger squirrels as older ones seemed to be too feisty for him. Eventually, he went to his new home, with another rehabber and another single squirrel. He spent most of his time out of his cage with the family. He tired easily and loved to be held while he slept. Max is deeply missed by all of us that had the pleasure of caring for him, he had a tremendous impact on all of our hearts.

[SammysMom]

If he won't take formula, maybe adding a bit of pecan Ensure would encourage him?

[SugarBugFerret]

Yes he needs hydration, he is really spikey.
BUT there is something about him, that I can't put my finger
on, does he look like a dwarf to anyone else?

I just saw that last pic and thought the same thing! He does look a LOT like little Kensi! Are we having a run on dwarf squirrels? What a cutie! :Love_Icon But yes, he does look quite spiky too. :(

[Missycoo]

He has his moments where he seems like he has small bursts of energy... then he goes back docile again. I know he sees me, but there have been times I've wondered if he can hear. There are a lot of similarities in those posts from Gabe. Chubbers can't stand on his back legs well to wash himself, although he tries. He usually wobbles and tips over. I do have to wake him to feed him and there have been very few times that he's woken on his own to let me know he's hungry. He's in a clear plastic tote and he doesn't try to jump or climb out. His legs don't look oddly short to me, but then again, I don't know what a normal babys is supposed to look like. I think he's just perfect! :D

[lennysmom]

His legs don't look oddly short to me, but then again, I don't know what a normal babys is supposed to look like. I think he's just perfect! :D

Of course you do Missycoo! :) You are his mama. :Love_Icon
He is cute as he can be! Thank you for working so hard to take care of this little guy.:thumbsup

[Missycoo]

Thanks you guys for the responses!! He is my sweet little baby... I just can't get enough of him. He can and does use his back feet when he's climbing up my shirt and holds them backwards for grip when he goes down my back. It's neat how he turns his back feet backwards. He's just really not overly excited to climb on me too much. He'd much prefer to be kissed and nuzzled. He's a VERY cuddly baby. I got him to drink about 3 cc's of formula tonight, so that was good and he was really busy walking around the house, which he never does. Honestly, I think he gets a little buzz from the sugar water. :D I'm going to wake up tonight to feed him, just because he's going to need to keep hydrated. Please keep the posts coming. I'm taking all of this info in! I'll follow all of the suggestions and advise the best I can. I go back to work tomorrow, but only for a couple of days due to the holiday week. I'm so thankful my daughter is home and can care for him while I'm gone. My hubby is good at checking on baby on his lunch break. Does anyone know of a rehab person that might be able to help us in MN? Or North Dakota? I think it would just about crush me to give him up, but I don't know what I would do if anything happened to him either. At very least I would like to have an expert evaluate him. I want him to have the best life possible and if I can't do that for him I need to find someone who can.

[SammysMom]

Your willingness to do whatever is best for him is true love. I pray that it all works out for the best for all of you. :thankyou for caring so much for this perfect angel here on earth.

[Nancy in New York]

Not sure what members we have but I can look around today.
I fear that if he were with a rehabber, he would get lost in the shuffle.
They usually are so overwhelmed with animals that need feedings, and
cleanings and feedings and cleaning.....:)
He needs the extra attention, and love.
Typically they don't live that long, not sure of the average "life span",
but I know with you, that every day, he will know that he is loved and
cherished.
Try not to let him climb "too" much. I worry about a fall on this little
one, and his bones could be fragile.
I will look for a picture of a 9-10 week old squirrel, to compare.
I would think that at minimum that has to be his age. :dono
:Love_Icon:Love_Icon

[Nancy in New York]

Here are a few of mine at 8 weeks.

238015238016


Here's Vera at 5 1/2 weeks.

238017

[Missycoo]

Here are a few of mine at 8 weeks.

238015238016


Here's Vera at 5 1/2 weeks.

238017



OH WOW Nancy... they are HUGE compared to Chubbs! LOL... and so adorable. What precious little things squirrels are. I definitely don't want him to go to a home where he will get lost in the shuffle, at very least I have to learn how to properly care for him if he has special needs. I've tried and tried to get him to drink from a water bottle and he has no interest. He likes to hold the things I feed him with his hands, but can't hold them himself to eat. He's really only on the formula. I'm worried about what will happen to him once my daughter goes back to school in the fall. And we have some things coming up where we will have to be gone quite a bit. Who will take my baby? And will he let anyone else care for him? He's not chewing on other things, so will his teeth get too long? I've got so many questions...

[Missycoo]

Oh and BTW, he woke up and ate 9 cc's this morning. I thought that was good considering he barely ate anything at all yesterday. I'm wondering if he's in pain. Maybe it wasn't good that I shut the heating pad off for a couple of days, but the way he sleeps so much, I was worried he wouldn't wake up to take himself off if he got too warm and our house was too warm.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh and BTW, he woke up and ate 9 cc's this morning. I thought that was good considering he barely ate anything at all yesterday. I'm wondering if he's in pain. Maybe it wasn't good that I shut the heating pad off for a couple of days, but the way he sleeps so much, I was worried he wouldn't wake up to take himself off if he got too warm and our house was too warm.

If you think he could get too warm put tons of fleece in with him, in the container, that way if he gets real warm, he can crawl to the top of the fleece.
Do you have a top on the container? If so, did you drill tons of holes in it? (I'm a worrier, forgive me. :shakehead)
Chickenlegs who has little Kensi is currently out of town for the week, and she got a great friend and member of this board to
watch little Kensi............right now the jury is out as to whether Kensi likes not being with mom as he has given Auntie Shewhosweepstheforest (username) a couple of "love bites". :grin2


Here's a picture of mine in a container, with the heating pad 1/2 underneath the container, with lots of fleece.
Also important reminder, keep the container only 1/2 way on the heat, this way he has his choice of the cool spot
or the warm.

The blue thing is the heating pad.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-MHnxcHH/0/M/i-MHnxcHH-M.jpg (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/38974646_cB7R5d#!i=3230038145&k=MHnxcHH&lb=1&s=A)

[Missycoo]

LOL Nancy... if you can outworry me, that would be quite a feat!! haha! No, absolutely no lid on the container. I'm not worried about him getting out at all. I have a couple of fleece baby blankets in there and he likes to find a way to dig down and get right on top of that heating pad. I only have it on half, so he can easily get off of the heat if he gets too warm, but he seems to like it really warm. Also what are your thoughts on calcium? Could he possibly be needing more than what's in the FV? I should put the heating pad underneath the plastic? Look at those sweet babies you have? They look pretty cozy!

[Nancy in New York]

LOL Nancy... if you can outworry me, that would be quite a feat!! haha! No, absolutely no lid on the container. I'm not worried about him getting out at all. I have a couple of fleece baby blankets in there and he likes to find a way to dig down and get right on top of that heating pad. I only have it on half, so he can easily get off of the heat if he gets too warm, but he seems to like it really warm. Also what are your thoughts on calcium? Could he possibly be needing more than what's in the FV? I should put the heating pad underneath the plastic? Look at those sweet babies you have? They look pretty cozy!

Sorry I just got on for a minute.
Yes the heating pad goes underneath.
Calcium, hmmmmmmmmmm not sure about that if
he is taking the FV. Of course, he really doesn't take a lot
of that, but at least he is not eating junk food, you know what I mean?
I will be glad when chickenlegs comes back on because it will be curious to
see if Kensi eats well or if he is picky. I wonder too if he is still on formula?
I will ask Julie, his babysitter. :)

[Missycoo]

Thank you Nancy... I also just sent Chickenlegs a PM. I'm concerned right now with finding a vet so I can get my little infant a well baby checkup. I live so far up north in MN that its going to be a challenge. I will drive him tho, that's not an issue. I've also contacted the Dept of Natural Resources AGAIN... and requested a permit to have him in case I have trouble getting him medical care by not having one. I found someone who seemed willing to help, so I'm happy about that. I also learned that Gray's are a GAME SPECIES!!! People hunt them. I nearly died. Who in their right mind!!!?

I've got a thought on my mind. I've been reading a lot of the posts about calcium and I'm wondering if that's a potential issue.. how much sunlight does a baby need to help absorb the calcium? I put him in our bedroom where it's dark and quiet while he's been sick. Could it be compounding the problem? Also, if I give him extra calcium, what kind do I give and how much?

[Shewhosweptforest]

Oh my gosh! He is a little Kensington :eek amazing....what a treasure :Love_Icon Kensi sleeps alot and just loves to be cuddled....putting him in a pouch when he eats helps, too. Because he can handle the food better...oh my...I can't believe it:grin3

[farrelli]

If he's getting sufficient formula or blocks, he really doesn't need the sun. Both provide enough vitamin D.

Be careful when talking to state officials. We generally advise not giving a name or contact info unless you need to get something from them. At this point, I'd even block my outgoing phone number (dial *67 preceding the number being called). Some states are crazy about people not having wild animals under their care and you don't want them showing up at your door. (If they do, they need a warrant to enter, just tell them that he died). I helped a duck this past winter which some busybody saw me going into my condo and called the police. Within an hour I had trhee police at my door, they went away, then the next day I had three officials from Fish and Wildlife at my door. It was a whole big thing. You want to avoid that.

[Missycoo]

If he's getting sufficient formula or blocks, he really doesn't need the sun. Both provide enough vitamin D.

Be careful when talking to state officials. We generally advise not giving a name or contact info unless you need to get something from them. At this point, I'd even block my outgoing phone number (dial *67 preceding the number being called). Some states are crazy about people not having wild animals under their care and you don't want them showing up at your door. (If they do, they need a warrant to enter, just tell them that he died). I helped a duck this past winter which some busybody saw me going into my condo and called the police. Within an hour I had trhee police at my door, they went away, then the next day I had three officials from Fish and Wildlife at my door. It was a whole big thing. You want to avoid that.


Busybody is right... ugghh.... yes, I don't need any trouble.

I did think of that, and I knew it was a risk... The one thing I will say about our small community is that we tend to run things a little differently up here. We're used to taking care of our own up here. I didn't have any luck reaching out to the bigger areas, so I contacted the DNR in my hometown. He wanted to know if I would be committed to caring for the baby for the duration of his life, so that's a good sign I think. He's going to check and see what I need to do. I'm having hopes they will be able to help and if not, they will NEVER take my baby from me... not a chance. I highly doubt I will be able to get vet care without a permit, so I had to take a chance.

[Shewhosweptforest]

Busybody is right... ugghh.... yes, I don't need any trouble.

I did think of that, and I knew it was a risk... The one thing I will say about our small community is that we tend to run things a little differently up here. We're used to taking care of our own up here. I didn't have any luck reaching out to the bigger areas, so I contacted the DNR in my hometown. He wanted to know if I would be committed to caring for the baby for the duration of his life, so that's a good sign I think. He's going to check and see what I need to do. I'm having hopes they will be able to help and if not, they will NEVER take my baby from me... not a chance. I highly doubt I will be able to get vet care without a permit, so I had to take a chance.

:goodpost :grouphug

[CritterMom]

I know you seem very sure... I have to tell you, when I read your post my first instinct was to throw up... I have seen way too much.

I live in a state where it is not legal for vets to see wildlife, and in my immediate area I know of at least three vets who will do so with no issue. A squirrely friend of mine sat down and started just calling vets one day and stopped when she had found three - there may even be more.

If I had my way, you would call the DNR back, thank them profusely for all the help they gave you, but unfortunately, the baby squirrel died last night. You didn't want them to go to all that trouble of trying to get permits so you wanted them to know. Sniffle a little. And then start the process of calling and researching vet availability on your own.

And you should stick with exotics vets - a vet who sees rabbits and rats and such would be a good fit. A predominantly dog/cat practice is almost useless because they are SO different.

Maybe you are right...but I would carve out my own eyes before I contacted DNR for any reason. Because you might not be home when they show up, and I doubt your daughter is up to arguing with them if they do. Since you have already told them you have a squirrel, they wouldn't even need to wait for a warrant.

I don't mean to frighten you - well, no, that isn't true. I DO mean to frighten you. It seems insane that municipalities that have so little money that they lose SUVs in their unrepaired potholes have enough money to aggressively pursue good samaritans trying to save baby animals, but they do - every single day.

Just one person's opinion...

[Missycoo]

[QUOTE=CritterMom;1021433]I know you seem very sure... I have to tell you, when I read your post my first instinct was to throw up... I have seen way too much.

I live in a state where it is not legal for vets to see wildlife, and in my immediate area I know of at least three vets who will do so with no issue. A squirrely friend of mine sat down and started just calling vets one day and stopped when she had found three - there may even be more.

If I had my way, you would call the DNR back, thank them profusely for all the help they gave you, but unfortunately, the baby squirrel died last night. You didn't want them to go to all that trouble of trying to get permits so you wanted them to know. Sniffle a little. And then start the process of calling and researching vet availability on your own.

And you should stick with exotics vets - a vet who sees rabbits and rats and such would be a good fit. A predominantly dog/cat practice is almost useless because they are SO different.

Maybe you are right...but I would carve out my own eyes before I contacted DNR for any reason. Because you might not be home when they show up, and I doubt your daughter is up to arguing with them if they do. Since you have already told them you have a squirrel, they wouldn't even need to wait for a warrant.

I don't mean to frighten you - well, no, that isn't true. I DO mean to frighten you. It seems insane that municipalities that have so little money that they lose SUVs in their unrepaired potholes have enough money to aggressively pursue good samaritans trying to save baby animals, but they do - every single day.

Just one person's opinion...[/QUOTE


While I was reading your post, the DNR called back... I almost jumped out of my skin before I answered. GOOD GRIEF....He had one of the officers call me, (my son graduated with his) so we know each other. He said that I'm not supposed to keep him and there is no permit to get to keep him, unless I become a permitted wildlife rehabilitator. He said that it sounds like he's doing great with you and your doing all you can do, so to just keep doing that. He said there's just no vets that could really help, unless I found an exotic species vet. He didn't have any place to refer me to, but said to just make some calls. He also thought that the MN State Zoo, might be interested, but Chubbers can't go to a zoo. He needs lots of love and holding. SO I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN... STUPID OF ME!! ...I'm sorry! I could've jeopardized my little baby!

[TubeDriver]

[QUOTE=CritterMom;1021433]I know you seem very sure... I have to tell you, when I read your post my first instinct was to throw up... I have seen way too much.

I live in a state where it is not legal for vets to see wildlife, and in my immediate area I know of at least three vets who will do so with no issue. A squirrely friend of mine sat down and started just calling vets one day and stopped when she had found three - there may even be more.

If I had my way, you would call the DNR back, thank them profusely for all the help they gave you, but unfortunately, the baby squirrel died last night. You didn't want them to go to all that trouble of trying to get permits so you wanted them to know. Sniffle a little. And then start the process of calling and researching vet availability on your own.

And you should stick with exotics vets - a vet who sees rabbits and rats and such would be a good fit. A predominantly dog/cat practice is almost useless because they are SO different.

Maybe you are right...but I would carve out my own eyes before I contacted DNR for any reason. Because you might not be home when they show up, and I doubt your daughter is up to arguing with them if they do. Since you have already told them you have a squirrel, they wouldn't even need to wait for a warrant.

I don't mean to frighten you - well, no, that isn't true. I DO mean to frighten you. It seems insane that municipalities that have so little money that they lose SUVs in their unrepaired potholes have enough money to aggressively pursue good samaritans trying to save baby animals, but they do - every single day.

Just one person's opinion...[/QUOTE


While I was reading your post, the DNR called back... I almost jumped out of my skin before I answered. GOOD GRIEF....He had one of the officers call me, (my son graduated with his) so we know each other. He said that I'm not supposed to keep him and there is no permit to get to keep him, unless I become a permitted wildlife rehabilitator. He said that it sounds like he's doing great with you and your doing all you can do, so to just keep doing that. He said there's just no vets that could really help, unless I found an exotic species vet. He didn't have any place to refer me to, but said to just make some calls. He also thought that the MN State Zoo, might be interested, but Chubbers can't go to a zoo. He needs lots of love and holding. SO I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN... STUPID OF ME!! ...I'm sorry! I could've jeopardized my little baby!

I think that you should take care of him but if you cant (because of time limitations etc) then the TSB might be able to find loving, forever home for him.

You may not need a vet if you can get him hydrated and stabilized. Dwarf squirrels do need some special care but I am not sure you really need a vet right now?

[Chickenlegs]

Chubbers and Kensi could be related and thanks to Nancy--and Maura who gave me the name achondroplastic dwarf (took WEEKS till I could say the whole thing without stuttering)--I know a lot more about the little guys. Still researching. Kensi is older than Chubbers. When he came to me I suspected he was older than his size suggested. He looked to be maybe 5/6 weeks old sizewise but he had a beautiful (short) fluffy tail and a luxurious fur coat. He acted more like an 8 week old baby. I wondered if he was Downs but the more I looked at achondroplasia, the more I'm convinced that's what's going on. Nancy sent you the info she sent to me (thank you soooooo much Nancy). Good thing is, if it's achondroplasia, they'll have near normal life spans as opposed to Downs babies who live short sweet lives. Like Chubbers, Kensi is awkward, tires easily, doesn't drink much and is a very picky eater--in Kensi's case, likely because he has to chew everything SO carefully to swallow. I don't know why but maybe his esophagus is small too making it hard to get food down. I'm really careful to make sure his food is easy to chew and swallow--carefully peel grapes or even cooked broccoli, no shell bits on the slivers of pecan he gets as treats (I dust all nuts with a little calcium powder for all my babies)--everything gets the once over. I will say--if you ever have to re home Chubbers I will be here with open arms. I absolutely understand how gobsmacked you are. These little guys are amazing. Don't let ANY rehabber that isn't cleared by TSB near him. He's too precious.

[Missycoo]

Your posts just warm my heart AND its a relief to hear of the similarities. It's been frustrating to be doing everything I can around the clock to no avail... I've sensed there was something different about him all along. I've watched video's and looked at pictures and my little Chubbs just isn't really like those squirrels, so if he's a dwarf it makes sense. So much likeness between him and Kensi! It's nice to know someone has a baby like mine... I PM'd you for some details too...

I did read some of Nancy's old posts from Gabe.. Chubbers doesn't seem like he's Downs... but he's definitely behind and tried very hard to do big boy things.. he's not blind because he reaches for my hand when I reach for him. Sometimes he jumps into it. He may not be able to hear, but I'm not sure. He's aware of his surroundings for sure. He prefers to potty on newspaper and is really good at letting me know when I'm holding his that he has to go. He's shown some interest in the little kitty balls I got him for toys, but would much rather nap than play. I need to do some more research on achondroplastic dwarf squirrels. I didn't get the info from Nancy yet.. I'll PM her too. BTW, I had to copy and paste that name! WOW:grin3

[astra]

If I had my way, you would call the DNR back, thank them profusely for all the help they gave you, but unfortunately, the baby squirrel died last night. You didn't want them to go to all that trouble of trying to get permits so you wanted them to know. Sniffle a little.
... I would carve out my own eyes before I contacted DNR for any reason. Because you might not be home when they show up, and I doubt your daughter is up to arguing with them if they do. Since you have already told them you have a squirrel, they wouldn't even need to wait for a warrant.

I don't mean to frighten you - well, no, that isn't true. I DO mean to frighten you. It seems insane that municipalities that have so little money that they lose SUVs in their unrepaired potholes have enough money to aggressively pursue good samaritans trying to save baby animals, but they do - every single day.

Just one person's opinion...

Well, it's two persons' opinion...:goodpost
would absolutely follow CrM's suggestion.

If/when they show up at your doorstep, there will be little you can do (or, rather, there will be nothing you will be able to do) to prevent them from seizing the baby.
And the fact that you somewhat know someone will be of very little importance.

and definitely, keep him away from any and all busy-do-gooders-meddlesome-neighbours' eyes.

[Chickenlegs]

Your posts just warm my heart AND its a relief to hear of the similarities. It's been frustrating to be doing everything I can around the clock to no avail... I've sensed there was something different about him all along. I've watched video's and looked at pictures and my little Chubbs just isn't really like those squirrels, so if he's a dwarf it makes sense. So much likeness between him and Kensi! It's nice to know someone has a baby like mine... I PM'd you for some details too...

I did read some of Nancy's old posts from Gabe.. Chubbers doesn't seem like he's Downs... but he's definitely behind and tried very hard to do big boy things.. he's not blind because he reaches for my hand when I reach for him. Sometimes he jumps into it. He may not be able to hear, but I'm not sure. He's aware of his surroundings for sure. He prefers to potty on newspaper and is really good at letting me know when I'm holding his that he has to go. He's shown some interest in the little kitty balls I got him for toys, but would much rather nap than play. I need to do some more research on achondroplastic dwarf squirrels. I didn't get the info from Nancy yet.. I'll PM her too. BTW, I had to copy and paste that name! WOW:grin3

Most of the info re achondroplasia is about people--and one posting to TSB from some time back. Chubbs sounds like he shares so many traits with Kensington. Kensi lifts his little arms to be picked up. He'll stay in a pouch around my neck for hours then HAS to get down--to pee. I have Kensi's little cage--a birdcage roughly 18x14x14--tricked out with fleece ramps and hammocks so he can't hurt himself if he falls. It also has a foam pad at the bottom. He has a cube, a climbing wall, and his pouch hangs in there. He'll go to sleep in the pouch and I hang it in his "houz". He plays hard for a few minutes then wants to crawl into the crook of my arm and nap or climb into his pouch (usually hangs from my neck). Kensi has to prop up to eat too. He tries to keep his balance but often ends up crouched on all fours to eat. He loves to play with my hands--and loves to have a hand in the pouch rubbing his ears and loving on him. He likes chewing on my hands too. He's a little pudge bomb like Chubbers but feels almost empty he's so light. I'll holler again later. Gotta go--hubby says NOW!

[Chickenlegs]

How's your sweetie today? Need more pix of that little man!

[czarina]

I also concur with crittermom.
You need to understand that almost everbody here, on TSB, is an "outlaw".
And by that I mean keeping/rehabbing for release illegal squirrels. There are very few states that squirrels are legal in. The fewer people that know you have this squirrel, the better. You never know when a mean co-worker might "turn" on you, and decide to report you anonymously. Or a neighbor you are having a minor dispute with. So, most of us just don't tell anyone that doesn't have to know. I know, its sad, but there are too many horror stories about when the state gets involved, and the animal is seized and euthanized.

It already makes me nervous that your sons friends office knows, cause you never know when some "by the books" type will make a stink. And you are completely helpless. Do not think your case will be the exception, it won't.

There was just a case here recently from Texas, where a womans pet squirell was playing outside,(which it shouldn't have been), but it ran up and bit a neighbor, who had to go to the ER, and the next thing you know the law and the DNR and the news were at her door.

So please, heed our warnings. And others are right about finding a vet, try exotixs, most vets love animals, you just have to check around, discretely, don't give your real name, until you are sure.
But, in all honesty, most things can be diagnosed and treated here. There is much more squirrel knowledge here, than most vets have, as they don't study squirrels in vet school.

I'll get off my soap box now and tell you what a little cutie you have in lil' Chubbers!
Good luck!

[Missycoo]

How's your sweetie today? Need more pix of that little man!

Hi!! I'm sorry I have been MIA...just swamped this week. We are holding our own here... Chubbers is doing pretty well.. yesterday he ate a total of 31 cc's and today around 26 total. He's been a very sleepy boy today. I am trying something that I'd like to run by you all. Now I realize that majority seems to feel FV is the best for the squirrels... I've started doing some back tracking of my steps with Chubbers. He was doing fantastic on the Esbilac for almost 2 weeks before I learned of FV and ordered it. It seems like he may have started to go a bit downhill and it probably doesn't have anything to do with the FV, all I'm going off is what's happened so far. What I think I'd like to try is a 50/50 blend. Do any of you have any thoughts or have you tried mixing formula or preference of one over the other? I will post pics tomorrow of him. He was 170 grams last Sunday and today his dry weight is 174. YESSS! *triumph*

[SammysMom]

I have had a houseful of babies thriving on 50/50 for months! A very respected rehabber told me it was the very best thing to feed. I took her word and many others have all with great success. Rock on Chubbers!!!:grouphug

[island rehabber]

I used the 50/50 from age 2 weeks on up until about 8-9 weeks with my crew of 10 here. All thrived on it, until a point where the Esbilac seemed to be giving them loose poops so I gradually tapered it off and got them to pure FV 20/50.

[Missycoo]

I used the 50/50 from age 2 weeks on up until about 8-9 weeks with my crew of 10 here. All thrived on it, until a point where the Esbilac seemed to be giving them loose poops so I gradually tapered it off and got them to pure FV 20/50.

@SammysMom and Island Rehabber... that's GREAT news... I am not surprised. Call it Squamma instincts, but my gut is saying to try that. My little buttercup is a stubborn eater, in fact, he's still refusing all solids, but that's not surprising now that I know that Chickenlegs deals with the same issue with her Dwarf bunting :) My goal is to get him to drink from a water bottle and at least try to eat some solids... I realize the formula will probably always be essential to his diet. I have tried EVERY suggestion that you all have given and he desires nothing. The trend seems to be that he eats great for a couple of days and then starves for 1 or 2, becomes somewhat dehydrated, then eats great...repeat. I'm not going to lie, I'm wiped right out.

[Missycoo]

@SammysMom and Island Rehabber... that's GREAT news... I am not surprised. Call it Squamma instincts, but my gut is saying to try that. My little buttercup is a stubborn eater, in fact, he's still refusing all solids, but that's not surprising now that I know that Chickenlegs deals with the same issue with her Dwarf bunting :) My goal is to get him to drink from a water bottle and at least try to eat some solids... I realize the formula will probably always be essential to his diet. I have tried EVERY suggestion that you all have given and he desires nothing. The trend seems to be that he eats great for a couple of days and then starves for 1 or 2, becomes somewhat dehydrated, then eats great...repeat. I'm not going to lie, I'm wiped right out.

Oh and one last thing that I forgot, I remember him being a little more regular when he was on esbilac, but never loose poops. Just normal. On FV he almost seems a little constipated and I can tell by his body language that could be a possible problem and maybe causing some eating issues.. I watch him steady to observe this behavior, but again, I know nothing of squirrels, so it's just a hunch. I thought maybe a blend... so we will see.

[Nancy in New York]

Oh and one last thing that I forgot, I remember him being a little more regular when he was on esbilac, but never loose poops. Just normal. On FV he almost seems a little constipated and I can tell by his body language that could be a possible problem and maybe causing some eating issues.. I watch him steady to observe this behavior, but again, I know nothing of squirrels, so it's just a hunch. I thought maybe a blend... so we will see.

I have the four 10 week olds and they are still on the 1/2 Fox Valley and 1/2 Esbilac (with probiotics). Are you using the Esbilac with probiotics?
You KNOW we need more pictures. :poke

[Chickenlegs]

Kensi is hysterical when he poops or pees--gotta get in JUST the right spot and hunker down JUST so--and then he's good to go. Takes him awhile--like a little old man with an enlarged prostate. Then he pees a puddle and poops big poopy poops. He takes 50/50 Esbilac/FV, tho while he's at Aunti Sweeper's at summer camp he's on straight Fox Valley 20/50. Nancy's right--need more Chubber-Chubbs pix! If he seems a little constipated, try some applesauce water.