Rita and Prudence

[Rita]

HI Everyone.

I am just finding this board, thank god. I'm feeling overwhelmed and realize I have made mistakes. The information on the web is confusing. I have rescued to female squirrels, I think they were about 3 weeks when I got them. They are now 8 to 9 weeks old. I have been thinking all is good, but now I'm wondering. They seem lethargic, or are they sleeping? I think I have made them to friendly to be released. They have been exposed to our little dog, they aren't scared of him. I thought we would keep them but now I am second guessing that. They look healthy but after reading this board I realize this might not be the case. They are still on formula as much as they will take, which is about 2O per day. They are also eating avocado, kale, arugula, bananas, lettuce and walnuts. They are in a ferret cage, that we move outside during the day, they seem to like that. But today they sleep a lot and don't want to come out of their cage. I immediately ordered the henrys block. I made them food in my dehydrator from a website I read online but they wont touch it. They are chewing on the japanese maple branch that is in their cage but now I wonder about their teeth.
I have so many questions.

Big question is Are they releasable if they are dog friendly, my dog seems more scared of them. They have tried to go sit next to my dog. I know I have made a mistake with this and feel really bad :(

Should I give them tums? and if so how much, I assume the unflavored kind.

Help is much appreciated.

[farrelli]

What kind of formula? Do you mean 20ccs a day?

[Rita]

Yes sorry, 20 cc's. They seem to each take about 10 in the morning and 10 each throughout the day. They are getting a mix of instant goat milk mixed with heavy organic cream, 3/4 cup milk to 1/4 cup cream with one calcium citrate supplement mixed in. The bottle says one pill has 150 mg of Calcium Citrate.. so that is divided over about 2 days of feedings, maybe I should add more of the supplement. I would love to see a photo of what a healthy 8 week old squirrels teeth should look like.
Thank you for your response!

[Rita]

The instant goats milk is by pro bloom and hsd probiotics and digestive enzymes.

[Turner's Mom]

Hello, Rita

:Welcome to TSB. First thing you should do it take a deep breath and relax. You have found wonderful expert help here. The next thing you should do is stop feeling bad about having let you babies get to know your dog. You were doing what you thought was best with what information you had at the time. Now, the next step is knowing that you have done a very wonderful thing in rescuing these little girls. They must have needed you or you would not have been blessed with the. You will be doing everything right soon enough if you stick around here and ask all the questions you can think of.
I will give you some quick advice and then you can expect an expert, or 20, to be around soon for more. :grin3
First, if you are mixing cow's milk into the formula you are making them stop. Cow's milk is not at all good for them. With everything in your recipe they will never miss the cow's milk. You have made a huge step in ordering the Henry's block. The block will have every thing they need to keep them healthy in it. i see that you have been giving them plenty of fresh veggies and nuts. It might be wise to take the nuts away from them until they are eating the Henry's block. Nuts are a squirrels favorite food and they will "throw away" the Henry's block thinking they can con you into just the nuts. Nuts are not bad for them but as long as they are waiting for release it is best to limit nuts to one or two a day. There is a tread that will help you with diet, I will post it for you in a moment. If they are only taking 10cc a day it may be that they have not had enough milk. When my boy stopped taking his "bottle" I started mixing his formula in a very small bowl and letting him chose how much of he wanted. He will still take it once in the morning.
As for their teeth....I am sure you have been reading on a few post that some babies have malocclusion of teeth and now you are worried. There are pics on the web that can show you a pic of nonmalocclusion and of maloccusion. There are also some links somewhere on here that have some pics of other members "kiddos" teeth as well.
You asked about giving them TUMS, I would almost say know because you have ordered the Henry's block. It will have all the calcium they will need.
How long have you had your little girls? Would you mind posting a pic or two of them please. it is very easy for members to help when they can "see" what and who (baby wise) they are helping. There will also be a laundry list of questions when the pros get here, don't worry, they need the answers to help you not to make you feel like you have done anything wrong.
i am very happy you found TSB and i promise you and you babies will truly benefit from having done so.

[farrelli]

Having them dog friendly is definitely not good and they would have to lose that friendliness if they are to be released. How friendly are they? If they wouldn't run from dogs in the wild they'd get killed.

Here's the link that was mentioned:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?44440-Healthy-Diet-for-Pet-Squirrels

Yes, pics would be great.

This thread is in a poorly trafficked area so if good responses don't come in, I'll get it moved. This is baby season so people are super busy and things can get missed.

[Rita]

233273Thank you turner's mom!!:grin3 That helps. They seem to be more spunky tonight, they both drank 10 cc's of goats milk. I am out of heavy cream so I will stop that. Strangely they seem more interested in kale and lettuce then nuts. I have just been giving them one a day. Maybe I will try to give them my home made biscuits before milk tomorrow, until I get the one's I ordered. Here they are when we first got them, and then a week ago and the last one of Prudence tonight. Well, I haven't figured out how to make the pictures smaller and in order yet..lol
233270 233271233272

[farrelli]

You're letting them outside uncaged??? Please do not ever do that again. I cannot tell you how many horror stores we have of this practice going wrong. We STRONGLY advise people not to do this. There is a soft release process that we recommend where they are allowed outside but caged for a period of weeks and then allowed to run free only at the point where they are old enough to fend for themselves. The youngest we recommend for this is 14 weeks and most opt for much longer. If these guys ran off at this age, which they have done to so many other people, they would fare poorly, and yours are even dog friendly.

In the pics, they look like they might be a bit spiky? That tends to indicate dehydration, which could cause all kinds of problems, including lethargy. Gently pinch the skin between the shoulders and see if it tents. It should immediately go back down like on the back of your hand.

[Turner's Mom]

They are so cute!!!!! Hang in there more help is on the way. I will keep an eye out for you here and if you don't seem to getting noticed I saw that there is another member with plans for that as well. Don't for get to ask away. :)

[Rita]

Ok, so no outside yet. We have been letting them eat lettuce on your patio while we watch them. I guess I am confused, I thought I was suppose to let them outside to get sunlight. So at this point they can sit outside in their cage?
Thank you for your help:grin2

[farrelli]

Yes, outside in a cage is fine, but of they are getting Henry's blocks, they really don't need to do that either. The sun mostly just helps vitamin D production, but if they are getting HHBs, they don't really need it.

[sassysquirrel]

Also - no puppy pads or towels.

They love lots of soft fleece.:grin2

[Rita]

Ok, I just bought them a bunch of fleece. So only take them out of their cage to feed them?

[farrelli]

We generally recommend a lot of out of cage time, but only in a secured room or house. You have to make sure they can't get outside or into trouble inside. Many people let them run free when they're home but make sure there are no sharp objects, wires they can chew on, etc. Some people feel better letting them run free in a bedroom which is easier to squirrel proof, and some people who don;t have that and can't let them run around their house for some other reason, have playtime in the bathroom.

[Turner's Mom]

Turner plays with us in our living room at least three times a day. Morning, noon, and evening. If your back porch is screened and "child proofed" (that's a good way to think about it), they can play out there with supervision.
Don't feel like you are the only one that has ever let your babies play out side. I was doing it too. Not any more, the folks here set me right. ;)

[Turner's Mom]

Oh, if u goto the Off Topics section you will find a thread that will help u learn to resize your pics. I just figured it out myself.

[farrelli]

We also recommend against screened porches because a squirrel can rip through a screen in half a second. Some people have special heavy duty screens canned hardware cloth, and that's OK, but the normal wire ones, or worse yet, the nylon ones are no barrier at all.

[Saverywood]

:Welcome
Their coloring is so pretty, is it pure grey and white?

Sweet, sweet squirrel girls. :Love_Icon

[Rita]

Thank you everyone for your input! They seem much better the yesterday, we had a sudden change in weather the other day so maybe they were hot? I upped their calcium and they are more energetic also got them to drink more milk. I should hve the blocks soon. I was excited to to see one of them drinking from a little water trough that is in their cage.

Is there a link for the basic rules for rehabbing a squirrel? for release vs soft release(not sure what that means?) vs a pet, which is not legal in CA.

I think they are to friendly at this point to release and we are leaning towards keeping them as pets.
I just want to be clear what that means. I was misunderstanding that outside play meant outside the cage, but inside the house. My big question is, if they are kept as pets can the never got outside?

I'm sure their is a link that explains all this, I am just so busy and don't have the time to understand this website yet..but I will soon!

[farrelli]

Here's the soft release sticky:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?41071-SOFT-RELEASE-The-How-to-Sticky&highlight=soft+release+sticky

Deciding to keep them as pets is dicey. Some people try it and just aren't prepared. They are relatively expensive, destructive, moody, and WILD. We get a number of people who try it but really aren't committed and end up back here begging us to find someone to take them from them, or worse yet, dumping them outside without going through the release process or when they're friendly to dogs and cats.

Also know that when they hit maturity, they will often become very restless (wilding up). Most seem to calm back down after a few days or even a couple months and resume being essentially the squirrel you knew, but others simply will not be happy indoors. You would have to observe them to see how they react to this phase. Also, some people think that a sq should always be released, but others, like me, think that if they are happy inside, or at least indifferent about it all, an indoor life can be wonderful so long as the parent is really ready to provide an EXCELLENT life for them with all the best food, caging, interaction, toys, and whatnot.

And no, if a pet, they can NEVER go outside without a cage, and people should take extreme measure to make sure that never happens. Many use a baffle system where there is never less than two closed doors between them and the outside. Squirrels are a lot of work. Don;t underestimate it.

[Rita]

THANK YOU FARELL!

We need a voice of reason here :grin3 Ok, steps to release. they are like different squirrels today, they are so active, I have never seen them like this. I don't think we are totally screwed with them being use to our dog. First off he is small only 12 lbs and very gently. He has never charged them because he us use to our baby chickens. Otherwise they have never seen another animal.
I think your right we should release them, I can see why you were shocked that we let them outside because they way they are today I would never let them outside!

Thank you so much for your help, they thank you too!

Is there a link to the steps to release.

[Rita]

Also they are starting to make clicking noises?

[Rita]

its more like a chirp, not a wheeze like they have phenomena.

[farrelli]

I'm in a rush and heading to a meeting shortly, but the clicking has be scared. Listen closely and make sure it's not happening with breathing. Here is a video of one example of a clicky squirrel:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32290-Pneumonia-video

Make absolutely sure this sound isn't coming from the lungs. If it is, it is imperative that you immediately get us a list of the antibiotics that you have access to so that we can dose it for you.

[Rita]

it's not coming from their lungs, just a new noise they make I guess. I have put out a call to a local rehabber to see if they have a big cage for a soft release, I guess we will hand them over if we can:(:( If not we will build the 4 ft by 8 ft cage and release them to our yard. I found the link for releasing them.

[Rita]

Here is the most adorable Rita when she was 5 to 6 weeks, I love her spiky hair!

233373

[farrelli]

Super cute! Is your back yard good for them - trees, predator-free and such?

[Rita]

We have a huge walnut tree and lots of other trees. We own our house so we wont be leaving. There are neighborhood cats but our dog peanut keeps them away and he has never cared about squirrels. We live in town so there aren't foxes and stuff, our yard is secure. Might be the best chance they have. They are becoming much more active!!