peter's poops!

[pandactivity]

okay so according to the skin test for the neck peter should be hydrated? although he was dehydrated yesterday. his poops are /were really hard and i think he was having a hard time going because it took a long time for them to come out all the way, and just now he had some coming out but i grabbed a tissue to see if it was stuck to his fur, cause it was just sticking there but i pulled it out (ew lol) and its softer on the part that just came out of him, is it safe to assume since hes hydrated (i think) they will be softer now?

:poop

[SammysMom]

That should be a good assumption. Yeah!!! wetter :poop

[pandactivity]

he just peed on me............ :Cry

[SammysMom]

Eh, squirrel pee is good luck...:poke:grin3

[farrelli]

If you think he could use it, you could give him some apple or prune juice, maybe diluted a bit. Sugar draws water into the gut, and both also have sorbitol which pulls even more water and is actually sued as a mild laxative.

[farrelli]

Oh, I just asked for an update in your original thread. I didn't realize that this was you.

So, did you get the Esbilac powder?

[pandactivity]

Got the powder, hes doing good eating drinking a friend said they can see him gaining weight already want some photos?

[farrelli]

Of course we want photos!!! It's the way we get paid for advice.

Did you also get the scale? What's he weigh? Are you feeding 5-7% of body weight?

[pandactivity]

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trying to dig to get under the mat lol
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earlier this morning looking fluffy :|
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[farrelli]

He;s very cute! Do you know what kind he is? He doesn't look like a gray.

How about that scale? It's really important. Knowing his weight tells how much to feed and will let you know how he's progressing. You can often tell if something's wrong by virtue of weight well before you'll see other signs.

[farrelli]

Oh, and what is he housed in? I have to go to bed, but we recommend fleece or t-shirt material. Towels can snag nails and even break toes. We also recommend cages with 1/2" spacing for the bars. They also feel much more comfortable if they have hidey places. I'll give you a link to a member here who makes stuff for cages. Hammocks and cubes are very popular. And finally, they love to have a stuffed animal buddy or two to snuggle/wrestle with, just make sure it has no hard eyes or bean filling that he could bite off and choke on.

http://www.auntiemmscustomboutique.com/product-gallery.html

[Squirlgirl]

So cute, reminds me of Apple.

[island rehabber]

He's either a California Ground Squirrel or a Rock Squirrel, right? I see his little teeny spots on his back -- definitely not an Eastern or Western Grey!

[pandactivity]

im actually unsure of the type of sq he is.
this morning ate a tiny bit, i try to give him some fluids before every "meal" but hes becoming uninterested in them and rather not eat if that means he has to have the fluids.
hes dehydrated again this morning (according to the skin test) but i feel his spine and ribs less now (they were very prominent when i got him a few days ago)
hes completely uninterested in eating anything hard. fruits/veggies/block/etc even mooshed up in a syringe he still rather not eat it.
i keep him wrapped in a shirt that i wore (changed everyday) with a fleece blanket in there too holding his sock buddy. which is all kept in a cat carrier.
he comes out willingly when i open the doors now and does not like to go back in but rather hang out on my lap/attempt to crawl up my arms

i dont have a scale yet but i WILL get one today!!
he has a clicking sound.. we talked about this before. it comes from his nose? every time his nose moves it makes a slight sound this only happens when he just ate. when hes sleeping or just hanging out it does not happen.. i listened to his chest/belly and did not hear much..
but there is a clicking sound.

[CritterMom]

Get a warm, wet little piece of cloth or a cotton ball dipped in warm water and wrung out partway and do a good nose cleaning. Then slow his beeding down. The end of the syringe should be pointing up at the roof of his mouth: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?36776-PROPER-FEEDING-TECHNIQUE!!

Then let us know if he is still clicking. They make all sorts of little mouth noises, BTW.

Are you somewhere in the SW USA? He looks like a baby rock squirrel or CA ground squirrel (I am not so sure those aren't the same species, they look exactly the same to me:thinking).

[farrelli]

Perhaps you can give him more frequent feedings but dilute the formula more so that it's more hydrating and you can skip the supplemental hydrations? Or flavor the water with juice on the hydrations?

I;m concerned about the clicking. Be very vigilant about it. Usually with pneumonia you hear clicking with breathing all the time, but not always, and loss of appetite is a common symptom. If I were you, I would get my hands on some antibiotics. Cipro or Baytril are great for this and are very common, but others can be used too. Usually a single pill is enough for a full course. Tell us what you have (or what your friends might have) and we can tell you what could be used, and if necessary, provide dosing instructions. Pneumonia kills fast, so being ready is key.

I was thinking he might be a CGS too, and fortunately for you, if that;s the case, we have one or two people here who also have one.

[pandactivity]

okay got the scale he weighs 31 oz before feeding..
when can he hold his own heat? when is he ready for a real cage? lol just wondering, hes starting to poop and pee everyyywheere and the cat carrier needs to be cleaned constantly.
i bought some prune juice for him also to flavour his hydration.. aaaanddd
right now i know we have keflex, not sure about other antibiotics but illl have to look around the house.

[pandactivity]

also! iv gotten him to eat some monkey chow!
(which i read was recommended on sq tales... is it still recommended? he still does not want the oxbow blocks.

[pandactivity]

im wondering if im over analyzing everything or if he really has messed up teeth?
his bottom teeth are very long his top ones are barely little nubs, his bottom teeth make it hard for him to eat i cant put the syringe in his mouth at all i have to put it on the side of his mouth and he laps it up from the side of his mouth....
also he grinds his teeth a LOT

[pandactivity]

he isnt really wanting to eat.. im going to leave him some monkey chow to eat he did pee though and its was almost completely clear, some light yellow shading in it too though
hes reaaaally wanting to just go play

[farrelli]

Monkey chow is OK but not really great. Have you ordered the Henry's blocks?

Teeth can be VERY problematic for squirrels and may even need trimming. They grow for life and a malocclusion can be deadly. He may be fine though. Can you post some pics? Putting a pencil behind them can help.

Some squirrels will use a potty corner. You might want to put some Carefresh shredded paper in the corner and try to train him to use it.

The board is getting very busy and many of our best member also have their own sqs to take care of so if you don't get answers, ask again and again.

I will try to point some CGS people here.

[WhistlingPete]

I have a ground squirrel that I've had since he was a baby. I'll go back and read through this to see what advice I can offer. I will say Petey didn't care for juice much but loved prune baby food.

If you want to send me a list of your main questions right now I will answer what I can. :)

[pandactivity]

ill get some photos of his teeth today.
mann is he going crazy right now, will not sit still for anything bouncing off the walls, i left him a monkey chow in his cage since he would not eat, and he ate it all, im going to try to soak an oxbow and leave it for him and see if he eats it :p or maybe mix up the two, i actually just read about henrys yesterday and was thinking about ordering some.

He weighs 86 grams today (before feeding btw)

[MollyBear361]

I have a Richardson ground squirrel. Maybe a cousin.. To rehydrate he loves watermelon and cantaloupe. It helps. They have really tiny mouths. I even have a hard time giving medicine through a syringe bc of small mouth and his teeth so I have to mix it up with a small amount of yogurt. Fortunately he goes Gaga over yogurt.

[pandactivity]

still not wanting to eat, took nibbles of his monkey chow.
hes bright eyed bushy tailed and just can NOT sit still lol
i was able to get some apple blueberry baby food into him but not much and idk how much because my syringes have lost their printing lol so i have to go get new ones.


he does NOT like me to do the skin test anymore and tries to bite me but it seems like hes hydrated..

here are some photos

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[pandactivity]

any answers on why he grinds his teeth
?
i tried tot ake a photo with a pencil but his mouth seems to not want to open that much im afraid to force it.

[WhistlingPete]

Petey used to make teeth grinding noises while he slept. He's never had any teeth issues though. If you can even pull down the lower gum while yours is asleep you can probably see the bottom teeth to at least see how they are doing.

[farrelli]

You've got to get a pic of the long teeth in case they're dangerous.

Ask questions. Ground squirrels have special needs, especially for diet, and you need to know. Unfortunately, the board is very busy right now, so you have to ask the questions and keep asking them. People get forgotten about unless they push things. I even forgot about the teeth and I'm fairly active on this trhead.

[pandactivity]

i was able to look at his teeth and i think they're normal when my fiance comes back ill get him to take a photo for me.
hes still not wanting to eat, and im 80% sure he's a ca ground sq.
im soaking some monkey chow for him i put him in a larger cage and he just keeps trying to burrow under the carefresh in there. he took a few nibbles earlier it seems he only wants the food if im NOT paying attention, like when i leave a monkey chow in his cage because he did not want the formula, then he eats it/takes it to his balled up shirt nest to eat it all, but if im watching him he rather not eat but attempt to get out of the cage/my hands etc.

[pandactivity]

okay you know what he's a rock sq. his tail is more like a rock sq than a grownds.
theirs are short and nubby and not so bottle brushed, his is.
plus their colourings look the same. the white behind the neck colouring and all that.

[farrelli]

You have to research food. And ask, ask ask. They're not big on sq blocks, I don't think. I think they have otehr requirements as the basis of the diet, but I can't remember what. Maybe grasses? Don;t know. Also, there are concerns about releasabilty, if you were thinking about it. Many ground squirrels can't be reintegrated. Just be a pest and keep asking if you care about him. This is a bad time for the list. Lots of questions are coming in, and lots of the people who normally help answer them are busy taking care of their own. We're all really thin right now.

[pandactivity]

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TEETHIES!

[farrelli]

Rock sq Food Habits


The daily activities of S. variegatus consist mostly of foraging and feeding. Rock squirrels forage both in the trees and on the ground. They climb bushes and trees in search of food nearly as well as tree squirrels. Most foraging takes place in the morning, where food ventures last about twelve minutes at a time. As temperatures increase, rock squirrels spend less and less time during each foraging trip. Rock squirrels eat some of their food as they collect it, but often bring it to a lookout point to eat. In addition, rock squirrels collect large numbers of food items in their cheek pouches and bury their bounty in small holes outside their burrows. The cheek pouches of rock squirrels are quite large, and one researcher counted 62 Gambel's oak acorns carried in the pouches of one individual.

A very wide range of food items makes up the diet of rock squirrels. S. variegatus is known to eat green vegetation, fruits, nuts, grains, berries, roots, flowers, cacti, invertebrates, and small vertebrates. Some of the most important plant foods include, oak acorns, wild sumac berries, cherries, wild plums, wild rye, assorted grasses, walnuts, pine nuts, mesquite, juniper berries, currants, cacti, and agaves. The primary invertebrate food items are grasshoppers, beetles, and earthworms. The wild vertebrates that rock squirrels prey on include young wild turkeys (Meleagris gallopavo) and other fowl. In captivity S. variegatus has even eaten a bannertail kangaroo rat (Dipodomys spectabilis).

The diet of rock squirrels changes seasonally depending on availability of food items. Mostly green vegetation is consumed in early spring, berries and and other fruits are consumed in the summer, and grains, seeds, and nuts are eaten in the fall.

Some preliminary research has shown that where rock squirrels feed on pinyon pine (Pinus edulis), they compete for seeds against birds and insects. When insect herbivores were removed from pinyon pines, small mammals (including S. variegatus) consumed more of the seeds. (Christensen and Whitman, 1993; Johnson, 1979; National Audobon Society, 1996; Oaks, et al., 1987)

Primary Diet
omnivore

Animal Foods
birds
mammals
eggs
insects
terrestrial worms

Plant Foods
leaves
roots and tubers
wood, bark, or stems
seeds, grains, and nuts
fruit
flowers

Foraging Behavior
stores or caches food

Gotta get the diet right. It's the most importnat thing for sqs. Getting it wrong causes suffereing and early death.

ALso gotta reasearch how to keep them. For example, do they need a digging place?

And do they hibernate? That's a whole separate thing that scares a lot of people.

[farrelli]

We'll wait for someone with more GS experience, but from those shots, the teeth don't look horrible to me. Better shots are needed, especially showing length. Make sure they are not cutting the roof of the moth. Could the short teeth have been broken? Are they just starting to grow because so young?

[pandactivity]

I think they're short because they started to grow they dont look broken, and no they dont seem to be cutting the roof of his mouth.
I think his teeth are okay he just grinds them a lot and he is making clicking sounds less and less often..

[farrelli]

Looks like they don't hibernate usually, and when they do, it's for short periods.

BUT they are a colony squirrel, which I know from looking into other GSs, can make reintroduction hard or impossible. Don't know for sure about this guy though. Some kinds just don;t tolerate outsiders. You've either grown up as part of the community or you're nothing. Depends on species.

[farrelli]

Btw, are you open to being his forever family now? As they may not accept them, they would be foreign to him too. You're all he knows. And imprinting is super important to them.

[pandactivity]

of course id love for him to return to the wild, but if that's not possible then i am open to being his forever family as long as i can continue gaining knowledge on how to keep him happy and healthy.

he had some food yesterday and over the course of the night he had a monkey chow, as long as he is eating the monkey chow should i not worry too much about him not wanting to be syringe fed?

he refuses the formula, and the hydrations.
i put a water bottle there in his new cage and he is drinking from it, he also dug a little burrow in his carefresh and slept in it last night and left his tshirt and sock buddy alone in the corner of the new cage.

[pandactivity]

yaknow hes becoming angier and angrier with me trying to bite every time i try to touch him..
:(

he weighs 87 grams this morning before feeding
his poops are normal now, not hard not long strings but just little pellets, (theyre dark tho)

[pandactivity]

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caught him eating.
hes had 3 monkey chows today
still refusing syringe food.

[farrelli]

Sorry that he;s bity and sorry that people aren't really chiming in. Lots of people have problems with bitey sqs. Make sure he's not protecting his food. You might handle him after his food is gone or he's at least had a long time to eat it. Protecting caches is also a bit cause of aggression, as are weird smells like hand cream, deodorant, soap, etc. You might have to experiment to see what might set him off.

[pandactivity]

havnt been able to be on recently with easter and all
and im about to head to work, but just wanted to fill you guys in yesterday, he weighed 120 grams!

[farrelli]

Glad he's dong well!

[MollyBear361]

Monkey chow is good for teething but not good on nutritional value. Have you found some other squirrel or rodent block you can give him instead. He wont be getting much nutrition from the monkey chow. Let me know if you need ideas on the blocks. He looks skinny but may just be from the pics? Other wise he is a pretty boy!!

[MollyBear361]

Here is dome info on CGS. Although have you confirmed its a CGS for sure??

The majority of the California ground squirrel's diet is made up of plant parts like leaves, stems, flowers, seeds, berries and fruits. Occasionally, it will eat insects and small animals

Infant: The infant CGS diet is similar to the infant tree squirrel diet. A variety of formulas may be used including
Esbilac, Fox Valley and Zoologic Milk Matrix mixed as instructed.
Weaning: Add powdered rodent blocks or high protein baby cereal to formula soon after their eyes open. Small
amounts of soft fruits and vegetables, small pieces of rodent block and grains may also be offered.
Post-weaning: Rodent blocks and Zupreem monkey chow biscuits can be used as the staple diet to insure proper
nutrition. 30% of the remaining diet may be fruits, vegetables, grains, seeds, berries and some nuts. CGS love
broccoli. They may also be offered crickets, grasshoppers, mealworms and small bits of meat prior to release. I
give them small bits of cooked chicken.

good rehab article: http://www.animaladvocates.us/cgsmanual.pdf

I would keep continuing to offer formula several times a day for awhile. Add in wild plants (make sure they are safe, not poisonous and not pesticide treated) - my RGS is a big fan of dandelions and a lot of weeds and grasses, leaves from outside. Especially if you can see what his outside family likes to eat.
Add in store bought veggies - chopped romaine lettuce (not iceberg - it has zero nutrition) and other veggies he may like - try broccolli. Minimal fruit but he will probably like apple (no seeds, they are poisonous), blueberries, etc. Make sure yu chop the veggies and fruits small at first so he can eat them.
Also you can add in mueslix and/or plain uncooked oats (oatmeal - not quick oats). Sometimes I give my RGS a handful of bird seed (the unshelled ones) and he really loves plain organic pumpkin seeds. Read more about diet and you should get it and also adjust to what he likes. If he is fat....reduce food....skinny...add some more. Just make sure he gets a lot of his diet from rodent blocks and or formula so he can get the vitamins he needs.

[MollyBear361]

For protein later you can try small bits of cooked plain chicken - ya know...not KFC. Pet stores carry live mealworms. My
RGS never cared for them but he loves him some waxworms (you can get those also at a pet store).
Feed sparingly. Maybe one or two a day.

[MollyBear361]

Definately looks like a CGS to me - "They are mainly brown with paler dapples. They have a pale V-shaped
area of fur at the neck running over each shoulder that looks like a white spotted stole."
I see the white on him over each shoulder.

Adults weigh about 10-26 oz. (280-740 gm)

6-10 weeks: Begin to emerge from burrow. Females will nurse young for 7-8 weeks. Almost a week after
emerging from the burrow they can forage on their own. Weight about 90 grams.

14-18 weeks: About 90% of their full size.

You need to weigh him daily to make sure he is gaining every day. At 87 grams he is about 6-10 weeks. At least weigh him every other day so you can track if it is difficult to do it daily. Weight will tell everyone a lot about his progress.

My RGS is litter box trained - just find where he likes to "go" when he gets older and then place a small box there with hay or grass or whatever cage stuff you are using like crinkle cuts, etc. ---and mine likes to burrow like a CGS. If cage is big enough put in a box of untreated soil or sand for him...or outside play time you can use an aquarium as well. He will love to dig.

[farrelli]

Thanks for getting in on this one MB! I know so little about these guys. I was going to make the suggestion about dirt too. Any advice on food? Do these guys need grass or hay? I think that GSs have some alterations in the normal sq diet, right? Like I think that blocks are more of a supplement rather than a staple?

[MollyBear361]

Oh I missed the new weight of 120. The article link I sent you has really good info on habitat (they like to burrow) and food. And some on release. I dont know anyone on the board who has experience with a CGS release so maybe keeping him is a good option to consider. He may also like a wheel to run in.

I believe their diet is different than my Winston. CGS are primarily seed based where my RGS was hay based so maybe the blocks are good for the CGS - at least some articles I read suggest that.
.....
When they are around 6-7 weeks of age I start to introduce harder foods such as bits of carrot and small pieces
of rodent blocks. I will also give them some shelled almonds so they can learn how to chew on things. They will
generally just chew some of the food up and not eat it which is fine. When the formula feedings decrease, I
increase the amount of soft and harder foods until they are totally weaned around 10 weeks or so. Then I give
them breakfast and dinner of hard and soft foods. Get them used to normal squirrel feeding times by feeding them
within a couple of hours after sun up and within a couple of hours before sun down. Some squirrels may refuse
formula at 6-7 weeks of age, some will still beg for it at 10 weeks of age which is within the realm of normal.
Copyright 2004 Mary Cummins - Squirrel Rescue 8

Below is a list of some acceptable foods for squirrels. As with everything be sure to introduce new foods
gradually. Some squirrels can get bloody diarrhea if they eat an entire walnut for the first time while others can
get green soft stool from eating too much avocado. I always try to make sure that there is a little food left over
so I know that they're all eating enough. Use nuts and seeds as treats only or they will get fat.

Fruits and veggies: grapes, cherries, apple, melon, tomato, avocado, butternut squash, orange, broccoli, endive,
turnip greens, cucumber, okra, green bell pepper, raw corn on the cob, pear, green bean, sugar pea, sweet
potato, spinach, mustard greens, carrot, carrot tops, raw soy bean, plum, banana, kiwi, mango, strawberry,
strawberry tops, buck eye, blueberry, blackberry, raisin, fig, date, peach, nectarine, apricot to name a few. Nuts
and seeds: pine nuts, acorns, pine cones, sunflower seeds, peanuts, walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts; sun dried
watermelon, cantaloupe, squash and pumpkin seeds. They also like fresh rosemary, fresh lavender and rose petal
clippings. Ground squirrels getting ready for release and adults also like a tiny bit of cooked chicken.

[pandactivity]

sorry guys iv been so busy with work iv been too tired to update.
but just an update: he's very nippy, while in his cage, loves to burrow and ill take some photos right now for you, i made a hammok out of flease and he filled it with carefresh! he has a potty corner which i have put a rat-sized litter pan in for him :)

Hes not really liking the oxbow, prefers monkey chow but ill keep trying to convert him over until i can order some of henrys blocks. (probably next week, on tues)
he likes his berrys/veggies, not interested in much else. still refuses the syringe so i think im going to stop because i think it stresses him out. as he gets very angry when i try to hold him to feed him (one hand over the back)
he is not real active during the day that i see but at night/when people are quiet or not around.
he climbs the bars and goes crazy. photos to come up next

[pandactivity]

also he weighs 136 grams today. :)

[pandactivity]

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[farrelli]

He's so cute! He looks like a CGS to me. I think there's been a lot of research done on them. I also think that one member here contacted some processor in CA about them and got a bunch of info. Have you researched them yet to find out how to raise him properly? I'm sorry that I just don't have time to help you. If you like, you might try creating a new thread in non-Emergency with a good title like, "Advice on California Ground Squirrel?" There always just so much to know.

[MollyBear361]

What a cutie!!!! You can offer him formula in a shallow dish rather than syringe. I would offer it in a dish for another week but that's just me. What oxbow are you giving him?
Have you bought a wheel? Most. Squirrels love them
.

[farrelli]

If you haven't gotten a wheel, there are recommended ones, like Wodent and one other I think, with no bar in the middle so they don't hurt themself.